http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm

Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure of 
6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging 
people to travel after 0930.
Mr Johnson blamed the rises on the "largesse" of previous mayor, Labour's 
Ken Livingstone, accusing him of creating an £80m financial hole.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7364637.stm

suggests Ken would have made similar changes...


Paul S

On Sep 4, 11:36 am, "Paul Scott" 
wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm
>
> Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure of
> 6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
> Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging
> people to travel after 0930.

The press release at http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=18677
has some detail of the new fares, in an incredibly badly formatted
table.

It mentions a new 0930-1600 off-peak period. I'm guessing that off-
peak picks up again after 1900, but there's no mention of this.

Another question is whether your off-peak day Travelcard will be valid
after 1600 - or will there be two markedly different off-peak periods,
depending on how you're paying?

While I'd imagine tourists arriving at Heathrow in the middle of the
day will be happy about being able to save £1.60, I suspect everyone
else will be totally baffled.


 - martin

"Paul Scott"  wrote in message 
news:nO6dnZ0bR8mgJyLVnZ2dnUVZ8sPinZ2d@bt.com...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm
>
> Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure 
> of 6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
> Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging 
> people to travel after 0930.
> Mr Johnson blamed the rises on the "largesse" of previous mayor, Labour's 
> Ken Livingstone, accusing him of creating an £80m financial hole.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7364637.stm
>
> suggests Ken would have made similar changes...

PS

The TfL press release including the figures is here:

http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=18677

There have been a number of discussions here in the past about PAYG capping 
rules, especially concerning peak/off-peak, or standard/discount. The terms 
used seem to be changing, with an off peak period 0930-1600, so I'm 
presuming within the existing 'standard' period of 0700-1900 peak PAYG 
fares will be charged between 0700-0900, and 1600-1900.

Might this also be part of the process of aligning Tube and NR charging 
policies, with a view to next years NR PAYG rollout in the zones?

Paul S

On Sep 4, 12:08 pm, martin  wrote:
> On Sep 4, 11:36 am, "Paul Scott" 
> wrote:
>
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm
>
> > Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure of
> > 6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
> > Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging
> > people to travel after 0930.
>
> The press release athttp://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=18677
> has some detail of the new fares, in an incredibly badly formatted
> table.
>
> It mentions a new 0930-1600 off-peak period. I'm guessing that off-
> peak picks up again after 1900, but there's no mention of this.
>
> Another question is whether your off-peak day Travelcard will be valid
> after 1600 - or will there be two markedly different off-peak periods,
> depending on how you're paying?
>
> While I'd imagine tourists arriving at Heathrow in the middle of the
> day will be happy about being able to save £1.60, I suspect everyone
> else will be totally baffled.

It also doesn't say if it's the start time of the journey or the end
time of the journey or both that determine the fare charged.

MIG wrote:
> On Sep 4, 12:08 pm, martin  wrote:

>> It mentions a new 0930-1600 off-peak period. I'm guessing that off-
>> peak picks up again after 1900, but there's no mention of this.
>>
>> Another question is whether your off-peak day Travelcard will be
>> valid after 1600 - or will there be two markedly different off-peak
>> periods, depending on how you're paying?

Depends if 'off peak' paper travelcards are affected at all doesn't it? I 
suspect this is a PAYG feature only, otherwise there would have to be an 
'off peak minimum cash fare' but they say it is frozen at £4.00 - though 
you'd have to say the press release isn't explicit enough...

>> While I'd imagine tourists arriving at Heathrow in the middle of the
>> day will be happy about being able to save £1.60, I suspect everyone
>> else will be totally baffled.

This is what PAYG does already - does it baffle people now that higher fares 
are charged between 0700 and 1900?

> It also doesn't say if it's the start time of the journey or the end
> time of the journey or both that determine the fare charged.

I'm sure it's been established before that on PAYG it is the start time that 
defines the fare charged.

Paul S

On Sep 4, 7:52 pm, "Paul Scott" 
wrote:
> MIG wrote:
> > On Sep 4, 12:08 pm, martin  wrote:
> >> It mentions a new 0930-1600 off-peak period. I'm guessing that off-
> >> peak picks up again after 1900, but there's no mention of this.
>
> >> Another question is whether your off-peak day Travelcard will be
> >> valid after 1600 - or will there be two markedly different off-peak
> >> periods, depending on how you're paying?
>
> Depends if 'off peak' paper travelcards are affected at all doesn't it? I
> suspect this is a PAYG feature only, otherwise there would have to be an
> 'off peak minimum cash fare' but they say it is frozen at £4.00 - though
> you'd have to say the press release isn't explicit enough...
>
> >> While I'd imagine tourists arriving at Heathrow in the middle of the
> >> day will be happy about being able to save £1.60, I suspect everyone
> >> else will be totally baffled.
>
> This is what PAYG does already - does it baffle people now that higher fares
> are charged between 0700 and 1900?
>
> > It also doesn't say if it's the start time of the journey or the end
> > time of the journey or both that determine the fare charged.
>
> I'm sure it's been established before that on PAYG it is the start time that
> defines the fare charged.

That's what I'd put my money on, but it doesn't say.  For readers of
the press release not familiar with forums like this, it ought to.

On 4 Sep, 20:17, MIG  wrote:
> On Sep 4, 7:52 pm, "Paul Scott" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > MIG wrote:
> > > On Sep 4, 12:08 pm, martin  wrote:
> > >> It mentions a new 0930-1600 off-peak period. I'm guessing that off-
> > >> peak picks up again after 1900, but there's no mention of this.
>
> > >> Another question is whether your off-peak day Travelcard will be
> > >> valid after 1600 - or will there be two markedly different off-peak
> > >> periods, depending on how you're paying?
>
> > Depends if 'off peak' paper travelcards are affected at all doesn't it? I
> > suspect this is a PAYG feature only, otherwise there would have to be an
> > 'off peak minimum cash fare' but they say it is frozen at £4.00 - though
> > you'd have to say the press release isn't explicit enough...
>
> > >> While I'd imagine tourists arriving at Heathrow in the middle of the
> > >> day will be happy about being able to save £1.60, I suspect everyone
> > >> else will be totally baffled.
>
> > This is what PAYG does already - does it baffle people now that higher fares
> > are charged between 0700 and 1900?
>
> > > It also doesn't say if it's the start time of the journey or the end
> > > time of the journey or both that determine the fare charged.
>
> > I'm sure it's been established before that on PAYG it is the start time that
> > defines the fare charged.
>
> That's what I'd put my money on, but it doesn't say.  For readers of
> the press release not familiar with forums like this, it ought to.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Does an evening peak on the underground now suggest that in time TOCs
can apply a similar peak level of fares on national rail services
inside the zones in the afternoon.  We could then see an afternoon
restriction on tubes and trains for off-peak travelcards.  This would
then remove the anomalies of off-peak tickets being valid in the
evening peak to zone 6 stations but not beyond from Liverpool Street,
Kings Cross etc.

However, it doesn't simplify matters at all.  If an afternoon peak
applied to the off-peak one day travelcard, it would also have to
apply to passengers travelling in from outside zone 6 (as people
arriving in London between 4pm and 7pm wouldn't be able to travel
beyond their terminal station).  This would all but kill off any
chance of anyone having a evening out in London if they are not
already there.

Jonathan

wrote in message 
news:392eddcd-2d92-4be1-9a89-aaf3af3d02d9@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> However, it doesn't simplify matters at all.  If an afternoon peak
> applied to the off-peak one day travelcard, it would also have to
> apply to passengers travelling in from outside zone 6 (as people
> arriving in London between 4pm and 7pm wouldn't be able to travel
> beyond their terminal station).  This would all but kill off any
> chance of anyone having a evening out in London if they are not
> already there.

I suspect existing paper travelcard conditions will remain largely 
unchanged, unless individual operators take the FCC policy. I don't think 
there is an equivalent (other than via PAYG capping) of the one day 
travelcard on Oyster, so the issue won't arise there. Isn't there a 
precedent for this with oyster peak charging on London Overground between 
Euston and Watford? I know that for Clapham Junction to Watford there are 
times when it's cheaper to buy a paper ticket from Southern (with a gold 
card discount) than use PAYG.

D A Stocks

On 4 Sep, 11:36, "Paul Scott"  wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm
>
> Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure of
> 6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
> Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging
> people to travel after 0930.


Which of course is excellent news, for both 9-5ers and (typically
lower paid) shift workers. Less congestion in the rush hour as people
are encouraged to travel later in the day, and a welcome reduction in
cost for the poorest, hardest working members of society already hit
unfairly be congestion charges, petrol tax, and other government led
charges aimed at the non city community. Thankfully we have Boris,
mayor for the average hard working joe on the street.

Paul Weaver wrote:
> On 4 Sep, 11:36, "Paul Scott"  wrote:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm
>>
>> Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall figure of
>> 6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has announced.
>> Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate aimed at encouraging
>> people to travel after 0930.
> 
> 
> Which of course is excellent news, for both 9-5ers and (typically
> lower paid) shift workers. Less congestion in the rush hour as people
> are encouraged to travel later in the day, and a welcome reduction in
> cost for the poorest, hardest working members of society already hit
> unfairly be congestion charges, petrol tax, and other government led
> charges aimed at the non city community. Thankfully we have Boris,
> mayor for the average hard working joe on the street.

Why are poor people who travel into London to work by public transport 
after 9:30am on weekdays hit by the congestion charge and fuel tax?  Car 
ownership is not a common badge of poverty in London.

Why, for that matter, are they suddenly expected to be able to turn up 
at work considerably after 9:30am* (given that they have to touch in at 
the start of their journey after that time) without their employer minding?


Why, for that matter, does scrapping public transport improvements like 
the Cross River Tram (and previously the West London Tram, the wasted 
funding for which is being partly blamed for the rise) which were 
squarely aimed at providing better access to the poorer areas of the 
capital mean Boris is 'mayor for the average hard working joe on the 
street'?

*puzzled*

(it's not 6%, either, most rises are well over that - lazy journalists).

Tom

"Tom Barry"  wrote in message
news:qM5xk.172$Yc5.105@newsfe27.ams2
> Paul Weaver wrote:
>> On 4 Sep, 11:36, "Paul Scott"  wrote:
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7597062.stm
>>>
>>> Bus and Underground fares in London are to increase by an overall
>>> figure of 6% from the New Year, London Mayor Boris Johnson has
>>> announced. Some fares will be cut, including a new off-peak rate 
>>> aimed at
>>> encouraging people to travel after 0930.
>>
>>
>> Which of course is excellent news, for both 9-5ers and (typically
>> lower paid) shift workers. Less congestion in the rush hour as people
>> are encouraged to travel later in the day, and a welcome reduction in
>> cost for the poorest, hardest working members of society already hit
>> unfairly be congestion charges, petrol tax, and other government led
>> charges aimed at the non city community. Thankfully we have Boris,
>> mayor for the average hard working joe on the street.
>
> Why are poor people who travel into London to work by public transport
> after 9:30am on weekdays hit by the congestion charge and fuel tax? 
> Car ownership is not a common badge of poverty in London.
>
> Why, for that matter, are they suddenly expected to be able to turn up
> at work considerably after 9:30am* (given that they have to touch in
> at the start of their journey after that time) without their employer
> minding?
>
> Why, for that matter, does scrapping public transport improvements
> like the Cross River Tram (and previously the West London Tram, the
> wasted funding for which is being partly blamed for the rise) which
> were squarely aimed at providing better access to the poorer areas of 
> the
> capital mean Boris is 'mayor for the average hard working joe on the
> street'?
>
> *puzzled*
>
> (it's not 6%, either, most rises are well over that - lazy
> journalists).


Tom, you might try turning on your sarcasm detector...