After another grim morning on Friday, I wonder why the ventilation on 
the Victoria Line is so bad ? If you change to the Piccadilly at 
Finsbury Park it's like entering a different world. So if the Picc Line 
can stay reasonably fresh why can't the Vic Line ?   Even with the 
trains at full hurtle little air seems to move about the carriage.

-- 
Edward Cowling   Stop Thatcher's State Funeral
                  http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/thatchfuneral/

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
> After another grim morning on Friday, I wonder why the ventilation on
> the Victoria Line is so bad ? If you change to the Piccadilly at
> Finsbury Park it's like entering a different world. So if the Picc
> Line can stay reasonably fresh why can't the Vic Line ?   Even with
> the trains at full hurtle little air seems to move about the carriage.

The Victoria Line is completely underground, except for the depot. The Picc 
has several open air sections.

On 9 Aug, 14:22, "John Rowland"
 wrote:
> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>
> > After another grim morning on Friday, I wonder why the ventilation on
> > the Victoria Line is so bad ? If you change to the Piccadilly at
> > Finsbury Park it's like entering a different world. So if the Picc
> > Line can stay reasonably fresh why can't the Vic Line ?   Even with
> > the trains at full hurtle little air seems to move about the carriage.
>
> The Victoria Line is completely underground, except for the depot. The Picc
> has several open air sections.

Except that 5 miles inside the tunnel that shouldn't make any
difference. In hot weather the trains sit and bake in the sun when
outside so they're probably hotter than a vic train when they enter
it. My guess would be the very high service level on the vic. You can
wait at finsbury park and sometimes literally 4 vic trains can go by
for 1 piccadilly.

B2003

In message <g7k5n9$g6d$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, John Rowland 
 writes
>Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>> After another grim morning on Friday, I wonder why the ventilation on
>> the Victoria Line is so bad ? If you change to the Piccadilly at
>> Finsbury Park it's like entering a different world. So if the Picc
>> Line can stay reasonably fresh why can't the Vic Line ?   Even with
>> the trains at full hurtle little air seems to move about the carriage.
>
>The Victoria Line is completely underground, except for the depot. The Picc
>has several open air sections.
>
>
Which makes it sound unlikely the refurb and new trains will help.

-- 
Edward Cowling   Stop Thatcher's State Funeral
                  http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/thatchfuneral/

In message 
, 
Boltar  writes
>On 9 Aug, 14:22, "John Rowland"
> wrote:
>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>
>> > After another grim morning on Friday, I wonder why the ventilation on
>> > the Victoria Line is so bad ? If you change to the Piccadilly at
>> > Finsbury Park it's like entering a different world. So if the Picc
>> > Line can stay reasonably fresh why can't the Vic Line ?   Even with
>> > the trains at full hurtle little air seems to move about the carriage.
>>
>> The Victoria Line is completely underground, except for the depot. The Picc
>> has several open air sections.
>
>Except that 5 miles inside the tunnel that shouldn't make any
>difference. In hot weather the trains sit and bake in the sun when
>outside so they're probably hotter than a vic train when they enter
>it. My guess would be the very high service level on the vic. You can
>wait at finsbury park and sometimes literally 4 vic trains can go by
>for 1 piccadilly.
>
I have found myself taking the longer Picc Line route on hot days. Not 
only because it's cooler, but the trains tend to wait in the station if 
there are delays rather than in the tunnel. You can see that "oh hell" 
look on peoples faces when a Victoria Line train stops in a tunnel.

-- 
Edward Cowling   Stop Thatcher's State Funeral
                  http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/thatchfuneral/

On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Edward Cowling London UK wrote:

> In message <g7k5n9$g6d$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, John Rowland 
>  writes
>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>> After another grim morning on Friday, I wonder why the ventilation on
>>> the Victoria Line is so bad ? If you change to the Piccadilly at
>>> Finsbury Park it's like entering a different world. So if the Picc
>>> Line can stay reasonably fresh why can't the Vic Line ?   Even with
>>> the trains at full hurtle little air seems to move about the carriage.
>> 
>> The Victoria Line is completely underground, except for the depot. The Picc
>> has several open air sections.
>
> Which makes it sound unlikely the refurb and new trains will help.

They should do. Firstly, they'll have regenerative braking, which means 
less of the train's kinetic energy will be turned into heat, so the 
tunnels won't get as hot in the first place. Secondly, i understand 
they've been designed with better ventilation: what matters is the 
temperature on board the train, and this has got as much to do with 
airflow between the train and tunnel as with the temperature in the tunnel 
itself. I posted a link to a paper on some research about this a few weeks 
ago; i don't have it to hand, but i seem to remember that better 
ventilation could buy a few degrees of coolness.

tom

-- 
What we learn about is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our
methods of questioning. -- Werner Heisenberg

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008, Tom Anderson wrote:

> On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>
>> In message <g7k5n9$g6d$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, John Rowland 
>>  writes
>>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>>> After another grim morning on Friday, I wonder why the ventilation on
>>>> the Victoria Line is so bad ? If you change to the Piccadilly at
>>>> Finsbury Park it's like entering a different world. So if the Picc
>>>> Line can stay reasonably fresh why can't the Vic Line ?   Even with
>>>> the trains at full hurtle little air seems to move about the carriage.
>>> 
>>> The Victoria Line is completely underground, except for the depot. The 
>>> Picc
>>> has several open air sections.
>> 
>> Which makes it sound unlikely the refurb and new trains will help.
>
> They should do. Firstly, they'll have regenerative braking, which means 
> less of the train's kinetic energy will be turned into heat, so the 
> tunnels won't get as hot in the first place. Secondly, i understand 
> they've been designed with better ventilation: what matters is the 
> temperature on board the train, and this has got as much to do with 
> airflow between the train and tunnel as with the temperature in the 
> tunnel itself. I posted a link to a paper on some research about this a 
> few weeks ago; i don't have it to hand, but i seem to remember that 
> better ventilation could buy a few degrees of coolness.

This might be of interest - it confirms the regenerative braking and 
improved ventilation:

http://www.metronetrail.com/default.asp?sID=1181842039781

tom

-- 
What we learn about is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our
methods of questioning. -- Werner Heisenberg

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
> In message <g7k5n9$g6d$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, John Rowland
>  writes
>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>> After another grim morning on Friday, I wonder why the ventilation
>>> on the Victoria Line is so bad ? If you change to the Piccadilly at
>>> Finsbury Park it's like entering a different world. So if the Picc
>>> Line can stay reasonably fresh why can't the Vic Line ?   Even with
>>> the trains at full hurtle little air seems to move about the
>>> carriage.
>>
>> The Victoria Line is completely underground, except for the depot.
>> The Picc has several open air sections.
>>
>>
> Which makes it sound unlikely the refurb and new trains will help.

I think the Picc's 73 stock has the best ventilation system on the 
Underground currently.  Hopefully the new Victoria Line stock will be even 
better.  I know they've done a lot of work to improve ventilation in the new 
design.  Time will tell ...
-- 
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)