I had to take the tube to our london office today. Went down onto the
platform. 1 minute later I realised I'd left something at home and
went out again. Luckily I always check the gates and noticed it had
deducted a quid! So much for the 15 min grace period mentioned on here
by others. The lady in the ticket office was nice enough to put it
back on the card but how many other people have been done by this?
What next , automatic deduction from bluetooth enabled cards as soon
as you walk in the station?? FFS.

B2003

wrote in message 
news:8c97f3f0-55f6-4204-b187-3a0e837d7cf8@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>I had to take the tube to our london office today. Went down onto the
> platform. 1 minute later I realised I'd left something at home and
> went out again. Luckily I always check the gates and noticed it had
> deducted a quid! So much for the 15 min grace period mentioned on here
> by others. The lady in the ticket office was nice enough to put it
> back on the card but how many other people have been done by this?
> What next , automatic deduction from bluetooth enabled cards as soon
> as you walk in the station?? FFS.

Isn't this a generous concession - and far from a rip-off?

Remember what you're doing is getting past the gate line. If you'd been 
using paper tickets, the gate would have cancelled the ticket, end of story. 
I don't think the nice ticket office lady would have dished out a new ticket 
just like that. It's the same everywhere I've been. Once the ticket's been 
cancelled at the gateline, tough. There's no need for TFL to give refunds, 
but I suppose it's a nice gesture.

Oyster apparently has the flexibility to allow refunds when it's obvious you 
haven't actually made a journey - another benefit that Oyster provides 
compared with paper tickets!

Jim

Jim wrote:

> Remember what you're doing is getting past the gate line. If you'd been
> using paper tickets, the gate would have cancelled the ticket, end of story.

Or you'd ask to be let out of the manual gate and back in that way
afterwards.  I've done it before on the mainline, though admittedly
not on LUL.

Neil

On Jul 22, 11:00 am, "Jim"  wrote:
> Isn't this a generous concession - and far from a rip-off?

Whats a concession about it? If I hadn't been looking at the gate I
wouldn't have found out until I tried to go home and found I didn't
have enough money.

> Remember what you're doing is getting past the gate line. If you'd been
> using paper tickets, the gate would have cancelled the ticket, end of story.

No , pre 9.30 return tickets were travelcards , they just cost more.
I'd have gone out through the gate without any problems. Besides , I
think the paper ticket system had a bit more brains that just
swallowing a single or return to a different zone.

> Oyster apparently has the flexibility to allow refunds when it's obvious you
> haven't actually made a journey - another benefit that Oyster provides
> compared with paper tickets!

Allowing is not the same is giving. It should never had deducted the
money in the first place. The onus should not be on the passenger to
be watching the gate and then have to queue up to get a refund when
the gate plainly can tell you only entered 1 minute earlier.

B2003

In message 
 of 
Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:43:55 in uk.transport.london, 
thagor2008@googlemail.com writes
>I had to take the tube to our london office today. Went down onto the
>platform. 1 minute later I realised I'd left something at home and
>went out again. Luckily I always check the gates and noticed it had
>deducted a quid! So much for the 15 min grace period mentioned on here

I see no reason why Oyster does not use an "odd charge" tone for curious 
charges to let the customer know there may be an issue.

>by others. The lady in the ticket office was nice enough to put it
>back on the card but how many other people have been done by this?
>What next , automatic deduction from bluetooth enabled cards as soon
>as you walk in the station?? FFS.

The (undocumented) 15 minute period is that you are charged for an in 
zone journey if you enter and leave a station in 15 minutes.
If you enter and leave a station in longer than 15 minutes, you are 
charged for an unfinished journey and an unstarted journey.

OTOH, you are allowed 120 minutes to travel between any distinct pair of 
stations, e.g. Leicester Square and Covent Garden.
What is the shortest journey between a pair of distinct stations on the 
Underground?

I don't know if Bank & Monument or Euston Square and Euston, etc. count 
as distinct stations for such purposes.
-- 
Walter Briscoe

In message , at 11:52:34 on Tue, 22 
Jul 2008, Walter Briscoe  remarked:
>What is the shortest journey between a pair of distinct stations on the 
>Underground?

The quickest (between Oyster validators) is probably Northfields to 
South Ealing as they are both surface stations. The platform ends are 
about 200yds apart.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Jul 22, 11:52 am, Walter Briscoe 
wrote:
> The (undocumented) 15 minute period is that you are charged for an in
> zone journey if you enter and leave a station in 15 minutes.

How generous of them. Money for old rope is something that sprints to
mind. Fraudulently deducting cash for services not rendered is
another. Unless its considered a platform ticket!

B2003

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:04:13 +0100, Roland Perry 
wrote:

>In message , at 11:52:34 on Tue, 22 
>Jul 2008, Walter Briscoe  remarked:
>>What is the shortest journey between a pair of distinct stations on the 
>>Underground?
>
>The quickest (between Oyster validators) is probably Northfields to 
>South Ealing as they are both surface stations. The platform ends are 
>about 200yds apart.

Though the exits from the platforms are at opposite ends of the
platforms.

On Jul 22, 11:52 am, Walter Briscoe 
wrote:
> In message
>  of
> Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:43:55 in uk.transport.london,
> thagor2...@googlemail.com writes
>
> >I had to take the tube to our london office today. Went down onto the
> >platform. 1 minute later I realised I'd left something at home and
> >went out again. Luckily I always check the gates and noticed it had
> >deducted a quid! So much for the 15 min grace period mentioned on here
>
> I see no reason why Oyster does not use an "odd charge" tone for curious
> charges to let the customer know there may be an issue.
>
> >by others. The lady in the ticket office was nice enough to put it
> >back on the card but how many other people have been done by this?
> >What next , automatic deduction from bluetooth enabled cards as soon
> >as you walk in the station?? FFS.
>
> The (undocumented) 15 minute period is that you are charged for an in
> zone journey if you enter and leave a station in 15 minutes.
> If you enter and leave a station in longer than 15 minutes, you are
> charged for an unfinished journey and an unstarted journey.
>
> OTOH, you are allowed 120 minutes to travel between any distinct pair of
> stations, e.g. Leicester Square and Covent Garden.
> What is the shortest journey between a pair of distinct stations on the
> Underground?
>
> I don't know if Bank & Monument or Euston Square and Euston, etc. count
> as distinct stations for such purposes.

My previous anecdote suggests that the former are.  I forgot to touch
in at Euston (gate open), so went down to touch the Bank DLR validator
and then touched out at Monument and got charged the correct zone 1
fare for my journey.  But one of them being DLR may have made a
difference.

In message , at 19:41:58 on 
Tue, 22 Jul 2008, James Farrar  remarked:
>>The quickest (between Oyster validators) is probably Northfields to
>>South Ealing as they are both surface stations. The platform ends are
>>about 200yds apart.
>
>Though the exits from the platforms are at opposite ends of the
>platforms.

I noticed that, but is there a pair of other stations that could be 
traversed quicker?
-- 
Roland Perry

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:52:34 +0100,
    Walter Briscoe  wrote:
>
> The (undocumented) 15 minute period is that you are charged for an in 
> zone journey if you enter and leave a station in 15 minutes.
> If you enter and leave a station in longer than 15 minutes, you are 
> charged for an unfinished journey and an unstarted journey.
>
It's definitely longer (at least it was) at Watford Junction. I've been
there when there's been a "one under" at Harrow and Wealdstone, gone
home after half an hour and "only" been charged 1GBP.

Tim.


-- 
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," 
and there was light.

  http://www.woodall.me.uk/    http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

In message 
, 
Neil Williams  writes
>Jim wrote:
>
>> Remember what you're doing is getting past the gate line. If you'd been
>> using paper tickets, the gate would have cancelled the ticket, end of story.
>
>Or you'd ask to be let out of the manual gate and back in that way
>afterwards.  I've done it before on the mainline, though admittedly
>not on LUL.

I've done it on London Underground.
-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Jul 22, 11:20 am, Neil  Williams  wrote:
> Jim wrote:
> > Remember what you're doing is getting past the gate line. If you'd been
> > using paper tickets, the gate would have cancelled the ticket, end of story.
>
> Or you'd ask to be let out of the manual gate and back in that way
> afterwards.  I've done it before on the mainline, though admittedly
> not on LUL.

An interesting thought for when PAYG is accepted on National Rail.
Loads of times I've had to be let through the gate when I've tried to
get a train at, say, Platforms 1 - 4 at Charing Cross, just missed it
(or found that it's horribly delayed), and then needed to get out to
the separate barrier for the next train from platforms 5 and 6.

(We had a discussion before about why Oyster travelcards work the
gates in this situation but paper ones don't.  I still don't
understand.)

There must be many large stations with similar arrangements on NR.

On Jul 22, 10:13 pm, Roland Perry  wrote:
> In message , at 19:41:58 on
> Tue, 22 Jul 2008, James Farrar  remarked:
>
> >>The quickest (between Oyster validators) is probably Northfields to
> >>South Ealing as they are both surface stations. The platform ends are
> >>about 200yds apart.
>
> >Though the exits from the platforms are at opposite ends of the
> >platforms.
>
> I noticed that, but is there a pair of other stations that could be
> traversed quicker?

Not on the tube, but what about Canary Wharf/Heron Quays or West India
Quay/Canary Wharf?

In message 
, at 
06:32:08 on Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Rupert Candy  
remarked:
>> I noticed that, but is there a pair of other stations that could be
>> traversed quicker?
>
>Not on the tube, but what about Canary Wharf/Heron Quays or West India
>Quay/Canary Wharf?

You've got to get up and down the stairs from the validators to the 
platform, which made me think it would take longer.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Jul 23, 2:51 pm, Roland Perry  wrote:
> In message
> , at
> 06:32:08 on Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Rupert Candy 
> remarked:
>
> >> I noticed that, but is there a pair of other stations that could be
> >> traversed quicker?
>
> >Not on the tube, but what about Canary Wharf/Heron Quays or West India
> >Quay/Canary Wharf?
>
> You've got to get up and down the stairs from the validators to the
> platform, which made me think it would take longer.

Race you :-P

In message  of Tue, 22 
Jul 2008 22:03:36 in uk.transport.london, Tim Woodall 
 writes
>On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:52:34 +0100,
>    Walter Briscoe  wrote:
>>
>> The (undocumented) 15 minute period is that you are charged for an in
>> zone journey if you enter and leave a station in 15 minutes.
>> If you enter and leave a station in longer than 15 minutes, you are
>> charged for an unfinished journey and an unstarted journey.
>>
>It's definitely longer (at least it was) at Watford Junction. I've been
>there when there's been a "one under" at Harrow and Wealdstone, gone
>home after half an hour and "only" been charged 1GBP.

It used to be two hours at Moorgate. I don't care what the charging 
regime is, but find it outrageous to the extent that it is undocumented.

When I queried the double charge, I quoted an interval of more than an 
hour from my Oyster record. So I can now enter at Moorgate, go twice 
round the Circle and get off at Liverpool Street for a zone 1 fare 
(assuming a circuit takes just under an hour.) If I make one circuit 
from Moorgate to Moorgate, I will be charged a double maximum fare.
-- 
Walter Briscoe

"Roland Perry"  wrote in message 
news:bpmn$+vVdzhIFAy9@perry.co.uk...
> In message 
> , 
> at 06:32:08 on Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Rupert Candy  
> remarked:
>>> I noticed that, but is there a pair of other stations that could be
>>> traversed quicker?
>>
>>Not on the tube, but what about Canary Wharf/Heron Quays or West India
>>Quay/Canary Wharf?
>
> You've got to get up and down the stairs from the validators to the 
> platform, which made me think it would take longer.

You would have to get up and down stairs at South Ealing/Northfields as 
well.

Peter Smyth

In message <g67nvc$5de$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, at 17:58:21 on Wed, 
23 Jul 2008, Peter Smyth  remarked:
>>>> I noticed that, but is there a pair of other stations that could be
>>>> traversed quicker?
>>>
>>>Not on the tube, but what about Canary Wharf/Heron Quays or West India
>>>Quay/Canary Wharf?
>>
>> You've got to get up and down the stairs from the validators to the 
>>platform, which made me think it would take longer.
>
>You would have to get up and down stairs at South Ealing/Northfields as 
>well.

I know, but not as far as on the DLR. (And the OP asked for Underground 
stations, in any case). Would make an interesting day out, doing some 
time trials.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:23:08 -0700 (PDT), MIG
 wrote:

>An interesting thought for when PAYG is accepted on National Rail.
>Loads of times I've had to be let through the gate when I've tried to
>get a train at, say, Platforms 1 - 4 at Charing Cross, just missed it
>(or found that it's horribly delayed), and then needed to get out to
>the separate barrier for the next train from platforms 5 and 6.

Singapore have the problem as well.  I was using their underground
system on an EZLink card (their Oyster-a-like) and needed to use the
bog, which was outside the barrier line.  Because I had entered the
station already, I was charged a full single for going in and out
without actually travelling - and no option for an easy refund.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:45:50 +0100, Roland Perry 
wrote:

>In message <g67nvc$5de$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, at 17:58:21 on Wed, 
>23 Jul 2008, Peter Smyth  remarked:
>>>>> I noticed that, but is there a pair of other stations that could be
>>>>> traversed quicker?
>>>>
>>>>Not on the tube, but what about Canary Wharf/Heron Quays or West India
>>>>Quay/Canary Wharf?
>>>
>>> You've got to get up and down the stairs from the validators to the 
>>>platform, which made me think it would take longer.
>>
>>You would have to get up and down stairs at South Ealing/Northfields as 
>>well.
>
>I know, but not as far as on the DLR. (And the OP asked for Underground 
>stations, in any case). Would make an interesting day out, doing some 
>time trials.

Well, I live almost equidistant from South Ealing and Northfields, so
when I'm bored, I'll get the stopwatch out. :-)