On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:11:16 -0700 (PDT), MIG
 wrote:

>On Jun 29, 1:23 pm, thagor2...@googlemail.com wrote:
>> On 29 Jun, 12:56, "Mait...@aol.com"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 29, 11:25?am, "tim....."  wrote:
>>
>> > >  wrote in message
>>
>> > >news:3853b55f-4558-43aa-8840-010122cc5fe2@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> > > On 29 Jun, 10:16, sweek  wrote:
>>
>> > > > On 28 Jun, 20:43, "tim....."  wrote:
>>
>> > > > > "Scott"  wrote in message
>>
>> > > > >news:55mc64lhe3uf1e75n0r99fqeuro8mn6hgn@4ax.com...
>>
>> > > > > > On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT), "Mait...@aol.com"
>> > > > > >  wrote:
>>
>> > > > > >>I could hardly believe, last week, when I tried to buy a One Day
>> > > > > >>Travelcard at my local newsgent, who had sold them for many years,
>> > > > > >>that they are no longer available there! The equipment, he told me, as
>> > > > > >>I could see, had been removed and all he can now do is add credit to
>> > > > > >>Oyster cards, or sell weekly etc. tickets on Oyster.
>>
>> > > > > >>This is an outrageous scam by T.F.L., which means I now would now lose
>> > > > > >>?1 credit on my Oyster in order to get a bus to my local station which
>> > > > > >>is, presumably, the only place I can now buy a One Day Travelcard.
>> > > > > >>Does anyone know why one can't get a One Day Travelcard on Oyster?
>>
>> > > > > >>It's funny that bus drivers don't even seem to know that this is now
>> > > > > >>the case, since my father when he tried bought a ticket on the bus one
>> > > > > >>morning was told by the driver that it would be cheaper for him to by
>> > > > > >>a One Day Bus Pass at the same newsagents!
>>
>> > > > > >>M.M.
>>
>> > > > > > Why do you need a One Day Travelcard?
>>
>> > > > > Because you are going on National Rail.
>>
>> > > > > Probably about 50% of people have to do this each day.
>>
>> > > > > tim
>>
>> > > > Since there are more passengers on the underground every day than on
>> > > > the whole national rail network across Britain, I'm quite sure it's a
>> > > > lot less than 50%.
>>
>> > > I've read that statistic and I'm very suspicious of it. The trains in
>> > > south london are packed and when you throw in the commuter lines in
>> > > other large cities such as liverpool, manchester, glasgow, edinburgh
>> > > and on top of that cross country and long distance travellers. I'm
>> > > pretty sure it must come damn close.
>>
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­?-----------------------
>>
>> > > It's based upon the fact that people make lots of journeys of 2 or 3 stops
>> > > on the Underground. ?People don't do this anywhere near as often on National
>> > > Rail (mainly because of the train frequency).
>>
>> > > Tim- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > As the original poster of this thread, I am delighted that so much
>> > interest has been generated!
>>
>> > But, two points in reply:
>>
>> > 1. No-one has answered why One Day Travelcards are not available on
>> > Oyster. That availability would, at a stroke, remove my complaint.
>>
>> Simple - TfL don't give a shit about you. No doubt 1 day travelcards
>> being used on the mainline was costing them money so they subtly
>> binned it. All Oyster is is a way for TfL to save money , nothing
>> more. All this more convenient for passengers balony is just spin.
>> Smartcard or magnetic strip is irrelevant to most people - they just
>> want to get to their destinations in a reasonable time and reasonable
>> comfort for a reasonable price. On which all counts TfL and LUL fail
>> miserably.
>
>They are certainly in denial about the real world situation, and make
>their excuses in terms of a situation that they know not to exist.
>
>Like the previous poster, I think it would be very useful to put a one-
>day travelcard on Oyster.  Even if you normally only use PAYG, there
>will be days when you have to use some National Rail, so get a one-day
>travelcard instead.
>
>It must be very common for people in that situation to be in the habit
>of touching their Oyster at every gate, thus getting charged twice
>(and possibly unresolved journeys).  If the ODTC was on Oyster, it
>would know not to charge PAYG.

Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
arrangements.  I believe Boris is working towards this.

There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.

Scott wrote:

> Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
> arrangements.  I believe Boris is working towards this.

> There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
> automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.

What about people travelling in from outside London? Will provincial ticket 
machines issue Oster?

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:02:39 +0100, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
 wrote:

>Scott wrote:
>
>> Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
>> arrangements.  I believe Boris is working towards this.
>
>> There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
>> automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.
>
>What about people travelling in from outside London? Will provincial ticket 
>machines issue Oster? 
>
There is no requirement to live in London to have an Oyster card. They
can be topped up on-line.

I don't live in London and I have one.  It is worth the loss of
interest on £5 or so (25p per annum?) in return for the convenience of
being able to travel about in London without having to buy a ticket
and knowing that I won't get charged more than a One Day Travelcard.

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:11:25 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald
 wrote:

>In message , Scott 
> writes
>
>>>It must be very common for people in that situation to be in the habit
>>>of touching their Oyster at every gate, thus getting charged twice
>>>(and possibly unresolved journeys).  If the ODTC was on Oyster, it
>>>would know not to charge PAYG.
>>
>>Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
>>arrangements.  I believe Boris is working towards this.
>
>And you believe the previous Mayor wasn't?  Where would Mayor Johnson 
>have got these agreements from in no time at all if not?

The point is the previous Mayor is not working on it now.
>
>>There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
>>automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.
>
>I actually guess there will always be a need for the ODTC if only to 
>appease the ATOC in ticket issuing.

Maybe or maybe not.  Depends on what the agreement says and what the
revenue sharing arrangements are.  I understand it will be part of
each new franchise to participate in Oyster.

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:05:16 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald
 wrote:

>In message , Scott 
> writes
>
>>>>Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
>>>>arrangements.  I believe Boris is working towards this.
>>>
>>>And you believe the previous Mayor wasn't?  Where would Mayor Johnson
>>>have got these agreements from in no time at all if not?
>>
>>The point is the previous Mayor is not working on it now.
>
>Well dur no, as it's nothing to do with him any more. Most of the 
>groundwork that the current incumbent is heralding comes from the 
>previous team though.
>
>Mind you, that's politics.
>
>>>>There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
>>>>automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.
>>>
>>>I actually guess there will always be a need for the ODTC if only to
>>>appease the ATOC in ticket issuing.
>>
>>Maybe or maybe not.  Depends on what the agreement says and what the
>>revenue sharing arrangements are.  I understand it will be part of
>>each new franchise to participate in Oyster.
>
>It's also part of each franchise that Travelcards are an intrinsic part 
>of their fare structure.

Surely that means the principle of the Travelcard which is enshrined
in the capping arrangements used by Oyster rather than the actual card
in the literal sense?

Scott wrote:

>>> There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
>>> automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.

>>What about people travelling in from outside London? Will provincial 
>>ticket
>>machines issue Oster?

> There is no requirement to live in London to have an Oyster card. They
> can be topped up on-line.

That is not terribly convenient for all, especially those on the move.

> I don't live in London and I have one.  It is worth the loss of
> interest on £5 or so (25p per annum?) in return for the convenience of
> being able to travel about in London without having to buy a ticket
> and knowing that I won't get charged more than a One Day Travelcard.

It's got nothing to do with residency, it's about whether or not the ODTC + 
return journey to the zone edge option will still exist. Unless Oyster is 
going to be rolled in the provinces then folks out there will still need to 
be able to buy this Travelcard option.

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:35:33 +0100, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
 wrote:

>Scott wrote:
>
>>>> There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
>>>> automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.
>
>>>What about people travelling in from outside London? Will provincial 
>>>ticket
>>>machines issue Oster?
>
>> There is no requirement to live in London to have an Oyster card. They
>> can be topped up on-line.
>
>That is not terribly convenient for all, especially those on the move.

It's especially convenient for those on the move.  They can just wave
a blue card and not bother about anticipating how many journeys they
are going to make and what would be the best fare option.

>> I don't live in London and I have one.  It is worth the loss of
>> interest on £5 or so (25p per annum?) in return for the convenience of
>> being able to travel about in London without having to buy a ticket
>> and knowing that I won't get charged more than a One Day Travelcard.
>
>It's got nothing to do with residency, it's about whether or not the ODTC + 
>return journey to the zone edge option will still exist. Unless Oyster is 
>going to be rolled in the provinces then folks out there will still need to 
>be able to buy this Travelcard option. 
>
You mean to avoid paying for the same small section of the journey
twice.  An interesting point that I had not thought of.  But will the
discount that applies when an Oyser card is used balance this out?

Scott wrote:

>> It's got nothing to do with residency, it's about whether or not the ODTC + 
>> return journey to the zone edge option will still exist. Unless Oyster is 
>> going to be rolled in the provinces then folks out there will still need to 
>> be able to buy this Travelcard option. 
>>
> You mean to avoid paying for the same small section of the journey
> twice.  An interesting point that I had not thought of.  But will the
> discount that applies when an Oyser card is used balance this out?

No.
-- 
Michael Hoffman

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:04:52 +0100, Michael Hoffman
<cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:

>Scott wrote:
>
>>> It's got nothing to do with residency, it's about whether or not the ODTC + 
>>> return journey to the zone edge option will still exist. Unless Oyster is 
>>> going to be rolled in the provinces then folks out there will still need to 
>>> be able to buy this Travelcard option. 
>>>
>> You mean to avoid paying for the same small section of the journey
>> twice.  An interesting point that I had not thought of.  But will the
>> discount that applies when an Oyser card is used balance this out?
>
>No.

So how much is an Travelcard for zones 1-2 when purchased as an add-on
to an off-peak rail ticket?

Scott wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:04:52 +0100, Michael Hoffman
> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Scott wrote:
>>
>>>> It's got nothing to do with residency, it's about whether or not the ODTC + 
>>>> return journey to the zone edge option will still exist. Unless Oyster is 
>>>> going to be rolled in the provinces then folks out there will still need to 
>>>> be able to buy this Travelcard option. 
>>>>
>>> You mean to avoid paying for the same small section of the journey
>>> twice.  An interesting point that I had not thought of.  But will the
>>> discount that applies when an Oyser card is used balance this out?
>> No.
> 
> So how much is an Travelcard for zones 1-2 when purchased as an add-on
> to an off-peak rail ticket?

There is no such thing. There are only out-boundary Travelcards.
-- 
Michael Hoffman

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:02:46 +0100, Michael Hoffman
<cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:

>Scott wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:04:52 +0100, Michael Hoffman
>> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> Scott wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It's got nothing to do with residency, it's about whether or not the ODTC + 
>>>>> return journey to the zone edge option will still exist. Unless Oyster is 
>>>>> going to be rolled in the provinces then folks out there will still need to 
>>>>> be able to buy this Travelcard option. 
>>>>>
>>>> You mean to avoid paying for the same small section of the journey
>>>> twice.  An interesting point that I had not thought of.  But will the
>>>> discount that applies when an Oyser card is used balance this out?
>>> No.
>> 
>> So how much is an Travelcard for zones 1-2 when purchased as an add-on
>> to an off-peak rail ticket?
>
>There is no such thing. There are only out-boundary Travelcards.

There must be a price differential between (1) buying a ticket from a
place outside London to the London terminus and (2) buying a ticket
from the same place to Zones 1-2.  That was the question.  I do not
know all the terminology.

"Scott"  wrote in message 
news:dluf64dtv49eatav0onpv2uc2f35q2tvv4@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:02:46 +0100, Michael Hoffman
> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Scott wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:04:52 +0100, Michael Hoffman
>>> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> It's got nothing to do with residency, it's about whether or not the 
>>>>>> ODTC +
>>>>>> return journey to the zone edge option will still exist. Unless 
>>>>>> Oyster is
>>>>>> going to be rolled in the provinces then folks out there will still 
>>>>>> need to
>>>>>> be able to buy this Travelcard option.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You mean to avoid paying for the same small section of the journey
>>>>> twice.  An interesting point that I had not thought of.  But will the
>>>>> discount that applies when an Oyser card is used balance this out?
>>>> No.
>>>
>>> So how much is an Travelcard for zones 1-2 when purchased as an add-on
>>> to an off-peak rail ticket?
>>
>>There is no such thing. There are only out-boundary Travelcards.
>
> There must be a price differential between (1) buying a ticket from a
> place outside London to the London terminus and (2) buying a ticket
> from the same place to Zones 1-2.  That was the question.  I do not
> know all the terminology.

Actually, if you are stupid enough to buy a ticket to zone 1, the 
differential is 8 pounds per return ticket.

If you buy a travel card, from my local station the extra costs is about 
3.50 without a railcard or 2.30 with.

tim

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:34:22 +0100, "tim....."
 wrote:

>
>"Scott"  wrote in message 
>news:dluf64dtv49eatav0onpv2uc2f35q2tvv4@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:02:46 +0100, Michael Hoffman
>> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>Scott wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:04:52 +0100, Michael Hoffman
>>>> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Scott wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's got nothing to do with residency, it's about whether or not the 
>>>>>>> ODTC +
>>>>>>> return journey to the zone edge option will still exist. Unless 
>>>>>>> Oyster is
>>>>>>> going to be rolled in the provinces then folks out there will still 
>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>> be able to buy this Travelcard option.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean to avoid paying for the same small section of the journey
>>>>>> twice.  An interesting point that I had not thought of.  But will the
>>>>>> discount that applies when an Oyser card is used balance this out?
>>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> So how much is an Travelcard for zones 1-2 when purchased as an add-on
>>>> to an off-peak rail ticket?
>>>
>>>There is no such thing. There are only out-boundary Travelcards.
>>
>> There must be a price differential between (1) buying a ticket from a
>> place outside London to the London terminus and (2) buying a ticket
>> from the same place to Zones 1-2.  That was the question.  I do not
>> know all the terminology.
>
>Actually, if you are stupid enough to buy a ticket to zone 1, the 
>differential is 8 pounds per return ticket.
>
>If you buy a travel card, from my local station the extra costs is about 
>3.50 without a railcard or 2.30 with.
>
I am not sure what you are comparing with what here.

Taking a step back, you and Michael have made my point very well.  I
am entirely disinterested in having to think about the intricacies of
ticketing theory before making a journey on public transport.  I just
want to wave the blue card about and get on my way.

I am sure most passengers have no interest in 'out-boundary
Travelcards', 'zone edge options' or anything else.  They just want ot
get from A to B.  What we need is a simply system that is easy to
understand and easy to use.

Oyster card is the way forward.  Bring it on.

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:11:25 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald
 wrote:

>I actually guess there will always be a need for the ODTC if only to 
>appease the ATOC in ticket issuing.

There is that.  But I can see LUL wanting to do away with magstripe
tickets completely as it'd save them money in maintaining the
barriers.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Scott wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:34:22 +0100, "tim....."
>  wrote:
> 
>> "Scott"  wrote in message 
>> news:dluf64dtv49eatav0onpv2uc2f35q2tvv4@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:02:46 +0100, Michael Hoffman
>>> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:04:52 +0100, Michael Hoffman
>>>>> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's got nothing to do with residency, it's about whether or not the 
>>>>>>>> ODTC +
>>>>>>>> return journey to the zone edge option will still exist. Unless 
>>>>>>>> Oyster is
>>>>>>>> going to be rolled in the provinces then folks out there will still 
>>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>>> be able to buy this Travelcard option.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean to avoid paying for the same small section of the journey
>>>>>>> twice.  An interesting point that I had not thought of.  But will the
>>>>>>> discount that applies when an Oyser card is used balance this out?
>>>>>> No.
>>>>> So how much is an Travelcard for zones 1-2 when purchased as an add-on
>>>>> to an off-peak rail ticket?
>>>> There is no such thing. There are only out-boundary Travelcards.
>>> There must be a price differential between (1) buying a ticket from a
>>> place outside London to the London terminus and (2) buying a ticket
>>> from the same place to Zones 1-2.  That was the question.  I do not
>>> know all the terminology.
>> Actually, if you are stupid enough to buy a ticket to zone 1, the 
>> differential is 8 pounds per return ticket.
>>
>> If you buy a travel card, from my local station the extra costs is about 
>> 3.50 without a railcard or 2.30 with.
>>
> I am not sure what you are comparing with what here.
> 
> Taking a step back, you and Michael have made my point very well.  I
> am entirely disinterested in having to think about the intricacies of
> ticketing theory before making a journey on public transport.  I just
> want to wave the blue card about and get on my way.

Go ahead and do so, you'll just pay a few more quid each day if you do 
it that way. But please don't try to eliminate the option for those who 
would prefer to save that money.
-- 
Michael Hoffman

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:11:25 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald
 wrote:

>In message , Scott 
> writes
>
>>>It must be very common for people in that situation to be in the habit
>>>of touching their Oyster at every gate, thus getting charged twice
>>>(and possibly unresolved journeys).  If the ODTC was on Oyster, it
>>>would know not to charge PAYG.
>>
>>Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
>>arrangements.

No doubt he was, though he isn't now, having been voted out of office.
Not that you'd realise it, the way the press are repeating his every
word.

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:38:44 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:11:25 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald
> wrote:
>
>>I actually guess there will always be a need for the ODTC if only to 
>>appease the ATOC in ticket issuing.
>
>There is that.  But I can see LUL wanting to do away with magstripe
>tickets completely as it'd save them money in maintaining the
>barriers.

Won't happen because of the through ticketing arrangements across
London. TfL may end up issuing a tiny amount of magnetic tickets but I
don't see a move towards complete removal.  You might get certain
walkways being Oyster only but probably only at the biggest stations.
-- 
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Scott"  wrote in message 
news:6u0g645ule3sn1j0vhcb2vn97pk24ub5r9@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:34:22 +0100, "tim....."
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Scott"  wrote in message
>>news:dluf64dtv49eatav0onpv2uc2f35q2tvv4@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:02:46 +0100, Michael Hoffman
>>> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Scott wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:04:52 +0100, Michael Hoffman
>>>>> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's got nothing to do with residency, it's about whether or not 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> ODTC +
>>>>>>>> return journey to the zone edge option will still exist. Unless
>>>>>>>> Oyster is
>>>>>>>> going to be rolled in the provinces then folks out there will still
>>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>>> be able to buy this Travelcard option.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean to avoid paying for the same small section of the journey
>>>>>>> twice.  An interesting point that I had not thought of.  But will 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> discount that applies when an Oyser card is used balance this out?
>>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> So how much is an Travelcard for zones 1-2 when purchased as an add-on
>>>>> to an off-peak rail ticket?
>>>>
>>>>There is no such thing. There are only out-boundary Travelcards.
>>>
>>> There must be a price differential between (1) buying a ticket from a
>>> place outside London to the London terminus and (2) buying a ticket
>>> from the same place to Zones 1-2.  That was the question.  I do not
>>> know all the terminology.
>>
>>Actually, if you are stupid enough to buy a ticket to zone 1, the
>>differential is 8 pounds per return ticket.
>>
>>If you buy a travel card, from my local station the extra costs is about
>>3.50 without a railcard or 2.30 with.
>>
> I am not sure what you are comparing with what here.

I'm answering the question that was asked:

"how much more is an 'add on' zone 1 ticket from outside Zone 6 than a SDR 
to London"

tim

"Scott"  wrote in message 
news:6u0g645ule3sn1j0vhcb2vn97pk24ub5r9@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:34:22 +0100, "tim....."
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Scott"  wrote in message
>>news:dluf64dtv49eatav0onpv2uc2f35q2tvv4@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:02:46 +0100, Michael Hoffman
>>> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Scott wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:04:52 +0100, Michael Hoffman
>>>>> <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's got nothing to do with residency, it's about whether or not 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> ODTC +
>>>>>>>> return journey to the zone edge option will still exist. Unless
>>>>>>>> Oyster is
>>>>>>>> going to be rolled in the provinces then folks out there will still
>>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>>> be able to buy this Travelcard option.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean to avoid paying for the same small section of the journey
>>>>>>> twice.  An interesting point that I had not thought of.  But will 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> discount that applies when an Oyser card is used balance this out?
>>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> So how much is an Travelcard for zones 1-2 when purchased as an add-on
>>>>> to an off-peak rail ticket?
>>>>
>>>>There is no such thing. There are only out-boundary Travelcards.
>>>
>>> There must be a price differential between (1) buying a ticket from a
>>> place outside London to the London terminus and (2) buying a ticket
>>> from the same place to Zones 1-2.  That was the question.  I do not
>>> know all the terminology.
>>
>>Actually, if you are stupid enough to buy a ticket to zone 1, the
>>differential is 8 pounds per return ticket.
>>
>>If you buy a travel card, from my local station the extra costs is about
>>3.50 without a railcard or 2.30 with.
>>
> I am not sure what you are comparing with what here.
>
> Taking a step back, you and Michael have made my point very well.  I
> am entirely disinterested in having to think about the intricacies of
> ticketing theory before making a journey on public transport.  I just
> want to wave the blue card about and get on my way.
>
> I am sure most passengers have no interest in 'out-boundary
> Travelcards', 'zone edge options' or anything else.  They just want ot
> get from A to B.  What we need is a simply system that is easy to
> understand and easy to use.
>
> Oyster card is the way forward.  Bring it on.

The problem here isn't the willingness of TFL to implement, or the user to 
use, it's the (lack of) willingness of the TOCs to install Oyster validators 
at their stations.  Until that happens, the idea is a non-starter, so no 
amount of coercion will make the many South Londoners who have no local 
underground station, use Oyster this way.

tim

"Scott" wrote
> Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

>>I actually guess there will always be a need for the ODTC if only 
>>to
>>appease the ATOC in ticket issuing.
>
> Maybe or maybe not.  Depends on what the agreement says and what 
> the
> revenue sharing arrangements are.  I understand it will be part of
> each new franchise to participate in Oyster.

Is that just the franchises that have stations within the Travelcard 
zones?

Incidentally, has anyone ever produced a map showing the outer limits 
for the availability of the Outboundary (by definition, zones 1-6) 
ODTC?  I presume it's at the whim of the individual TOC.  For 
example, I know you can get one from Newark, but not from Retford. 
The staff at Retford *think* they can sell one, but what they 
actually sell is a normal ticket to London plus a choice of various 
LU tickets or inboundary (not necessarily all zones) ODTC, which is 
not the same thing at all - a point that seems to be lost on some of 
the posters in this thread.

How does one find out what revenue sharing arrangement NXEC has for 
the Outboundary ODTC it issues?

"John Salmon"  wrote in message 
news:9OidnSyQC802gvTVnZ2dnUVZ8v3inZ2d@bt.com...
> "Scott" wrote
>> Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
>
>>>I actually guess there will always be a need for the ODTC if only to
>>>appease the ATOC in ticket issuing.
>>
>> Maybe or maybe not.  Depends on what the agreement says and what the
>> revenue sharing arrangements are.  I understand it will be part of
>> each new franchise to participate in Oyster.
>
> Is that just the franchises that have stations within the Travelcard 
> zones?

SWT were one of if not the first to be required to introduce 'Smartcard' 
ticketing throughout their franchise, this is supposed to be ITSO 
compatible, and also Oyster compatible within the London zonal fare area.

That isn't as straightforward as just being required to introduce Oyster 
PAYG, though apparently that is exactly what they are doing, at least within 
the zones.

Paul

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 09:24:27AM +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:38:44 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
> Williams) wrote:
> >There is that.  But I can see LUL wanting to do away with magstripe
> >tickets completely as it'd save them money in maintaining the
> >barriers.
> Won't happen because of the through ticketing arrangements across
> London. TfL may end up issuing a tiny amount of magnetic tickets but I
> don't see a move towards complete removal.  You might get certain
> walkways being Oyster only but probably only at the biggest stations.

If the volume of cross-London transfers is small enough, it would
probably make sense to get rid of the magstripe readers and just have
a member of staff open a gate manually when required.  All gate lines
are supposed to be staffed (or when not staffed, left open) and they
already do this for, eg, partially sighted passengers.

-- 
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

"IMO, the primary historical significance of Unix is that it marks the
time in computer history where CPUs became so cheap that it was possible
to build an operating system without adult supervision."
                         -- Russ Holsclaw in a.f.c