I see theres a bus from New Addington at the end of the tram line to 
Biggin Hill - MetroBus 464. What I cant figure out is whether this is an 
Oyster area or a different fare...

mf

On 5 Jun, 08:33, Mystery Flyer  wrote:
> I see theres a bus from New Addington at the end of the tram line to
> Biggin Hill - MetroBus 464. What I cant figure out is whether this is an
> Oyster area or a different fare...

Yes it is. The Biggin Hill bus map shows there are several buses
serving the area:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/pdf/bigginhill-11010.pdf

Non-TfL non-Oyster bus services aren't shown on these maps.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Mr Thant wrote:
> On 5 Jun, 08:33, Mystery Flyer  wrote:
>> I see theres a bus from New Addington at the end of the tram line to
>> Biggin Hill - MetroBus 464. What I cant figure out is whether this is an
>> Oyster area or a different fare...
> 
> Yes it is. The Biggin Hill bus map shows there are several buses
> serving the area:
> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/pdf/bigginhill-11010.pdf

Brilliant! Thanks. Thats the way to do it then!
mf

Mystery Flyer wrote:
> I see theres a bus from New Addington at the end of the tram line to 
> Biggin Hill - MetroBus 464. What I cant figure out is whether this is an 
> Oyster area or a different fare...

The "Beyond the Fringes" list, which is linked to from 
<http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/singlefares/2901.aspx>, 
shows that Bus Passes, Travelcards and Bus Saver tickets are valid on 
the 464 between New Addington (Parkway) and Tatsfield (Old Ship).

Presumably Oyster PAYG is also valid, but it doesn't make this clear.

HTH,

Barry

On 5 Jun, 12:56, Barry Salter  wrote:

> Mystery Flyer wrote:
> > I see theres a bus from New Addington at the end of the tram line to
> > Biggin Hill - MetroBus 464. What I cant figure out is whether this is an
> > Oyster area or a different fare...
>
> The "Beyond the Fringes" list, which is linked to from
> <http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/singlefares/2901.aspx>,
> shows that Bus Passes, Travelcards and Bus Saver tickets are valid on
> the 464 between New Addington (Parkway) and Tatsfield (Old Ship).
>
> Presumably Oyster PAYG is also valid, but it doesn't make this clear.
>

Funnily enough I was looking at that very same leaflet a few days ago,
and it left me wondering about a few things.

Here's a direct link to the PDF of the leaflet (which unfortunately no
longer carries the romantic "Beyond the Fringes" moniker - boo!):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/guide-to-using-tickets-and-PAYG-on-buses-outside-London-08-01-02.pdf
or via <http://tinyurl.com/22an7v>


Page 4 has this text:
"Oyster single fares, to pay as you go, are valid for travel across
the London bus network. However, on the following routes they are
valid only on the sections shown [...]"
and then it details the relevant sections of the 84 and 614 bus
routes.


Most intriguingly it then goes on to say this:
"On the sections of routes 373, 402, 477 and 500 where Transport for
London passes are valid, customers who have a valid Oyster card to pay
as they go can travel at a cash fare of 90p."

I think I interpret that to mean that passengers on the relevant
sections of these four routes can produce an Oyster card for visual
inspection and then pay a 90p fare in cash to the driver.


The leaflet is undoubtedly somewhat unclear on the whole situation. I
suppose one could take the above sentence to mean that Oyster PAYG is
only valid on those four bus routes, but I don't think that's right
(it doesn't tally with my recollections for a start).

The spider map Mr Thant linked to upthread certainly makes no mention
of the 464 not accepting Oyster, and what's more the big South East
area bus map shows the whole route of the 464 in black as opposed to
green - and the legend clearly states that routes in black all accept
Oyster PAYG.

Links to large PDFs of all the London area bus maps can be found on
this page:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/1110.aspx


However the plot thickens with regards to the routes where you can use
an Oyster card to pay a cash fare of 90p - on the reverse side of
these area bus maps there's a list of the routes in that area (which
isn't available on the web). I've just managed to dig up both the
March and November '07 editions of the South East map - and overleaf
on both next to the route details for the 402 and 477 there's a note
that says "Oyster Pre Pay not accepted". However given the archaic use
of the term "Pre Pay" I will presume that this information is out of
date - either that or the situation changed in January '08 -
regardless I would say that the "Beyond the Fringes" list (accurate as
of Jan '08) trumps that information.
All this would seem to suggest my earlier interpretation is right,
i.e. that you can present an Oyster card and then just pay 90p in cash
to the driver. I am intrigued - I think I'll go and test this out at
some point.


Anyway, in response to the OP - both the area bus map and the list on
the reverse of said map make clear that normal London bus fare
arrangements apply to the whole of the 464 route from New Addington to
Tatsfield, so that means Oyster PAYG, Travelcards, Bus Passes, Freedom
Passes, Bus Saver tickets and TfL staff passes are accepted throughout
the entirety of the route.

And there's some quite nice quasi-countryside down that way. The
change from a built up to a rural-ish landscape at the edge of the New
Addington estate is quite bizarre and quite sudden, albeit most
welcome.

On Jun 5, 3:35 pm, Mizter T  wrote:

> Most intriguingly it then goes on to say this:
> "On the sections of routes 373, 402, 477 and 500 where Transport for
> London passes are valid, customers who have a valid Oyster card to pay
> as they go can travel at a cash fare of 90p."
>
> I think I interpret that to mean that passengers on the relevant
> sections of these four routes can produce an Oyster card for visual
> inspection and then pay a 90p fare in cash to the driver.
>
> The leaflet is undoubtedly somewhat unclear on the whole situation. I
> suppose one could take the above sentence to mean that Oyster PAYG is
> only valid on those four bus routes, but I don't think that's right
> (it doesn't tally with my recollections for a start).

On the 477 and 402 at least, it's because they're operated using non-
London buses which don't have Oyster compatible ticket machines. I've
never tried using my (Oyster-borne) bus pass on the 402, though
presumably if I showed the record card it would be accepted in Greater
London.

On 5 Jun, 18:13, Rupert Candy  wrote:

> On Jun 5, 3:35 pm, Mizter T  wrote:
>
> > Most intriguingly it then goes on to say this:
> > "On the sections of routes 373, 402, 477 and 500 where Transport for
> > London passes are valid, customers who have a valid Oyster card to pay
> > as they go can travel at a cash fare of 90p."
>
> > I think I interpret that to mean that passengers on the relevant
> > sections of these four routes can produce an Oyster card for visual
> > inspection and then pay a 90p fare in cash to the driver.
>
> > The leaflet is undoubtedly somewhat unclear on the whole situation. I
> > suppose one could take the above sentence to mean that Oyster PAYG is
> > only valid on those four bus routes, but I don't think that's right
> > (it doesn't tally with my recollections for a start).
>
> On the 477 and 402 at least, it's because they're operated using non-
> London buses which don't have Oyster compatible ticket machines.
>

I had presumed that to be the case.

>
> I've never tried using my (Oyster-borne) bus pass on the 402, though
> though presumably if I showed the record card it would be accepted in
> Greater London.
>

Very good point, I had completely overlooked the whole issue of
Travelcards and Bus Passes issued on Oyster.

I believe proper Record Cards are only issued for monthly or longer
period tickets, and what's more they're only issued when you buy from
a Tube station ticket office.

When buying from a newsagent (sorry, Oyster Ticket Stop) then you'll
get a receipt that details what ticket you purchased, as I think you
will if you buy from a National Rail ticket office.

The self-service Tube ticket machines are certainly capable of issuing
such a receipt but I think you have to specifically request it, as it
is not issued automatically.

Not sure what the situation is when it comes to London Overground
ticket offices and ticket machines.

I can certainly imagine potential problems when trying to use a
Travelcard or Bus Pass on Oyster on one of these four fringe bus
routes on which this special (i.e. odd) arrangement applies (i.e. the
373, 402, 477 and 500).

Mystery Flyer wrote:
> Mr Thant wrote:
>> On 5 Jun, 08:33, Mystery Flyer  wrote:
>>> I see theres a bus from New Addington at the end of the tram line to
>>> Biggin Hill - MetroBus 464. What I cant figure out is whether this is an
>>> Oyster area or a different fare...
>>
>> Yes it is. The Biggin Hill bus map shows there are several buses
>> serving the area:
>> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/pdf/bigginhill-11010.pdf 
>>
> 
> Brilliant! Thanks. Thats the way to do it then!
> mf

On balance I wish I hadn't  gone..

1) Missed Bookham train due to party of people buying a complex ticket 
for the first time (they also missed it which was some small crumb of 
comfort).
2) Went to Effingham to catch a different train - cancelled
3) Went to Leatherhead explained that I wanted to change to the tram.

"You're not allowed to buy a ticket to interchange with Tramlink at 
Mitcham Junction, its only allowed via Wimbledon, the only route via 
Wimbledon is via Sutton"

Surely there must be a better way its a shorter journey via Mitcham 
Junction and the Tram has actually come from Wimbledon - how about a 
travelcard, I said.

"Oh yes thats fine"

So off we went and duly changed at Mitcham Junction. Then went to New 
Addington on the Tramlink which was interesting as I'd never done that 
before.

At New Addington bus stop D ( a delightful hamlet full of interesting 
local character ) we waited patiently for the 464.

..And waited

..And waited

..And waited

For an hour.

Once it eventually arrived the driver announced it was being diverted 
due to the 'Biggin Hill Airshow' - and would be calling only nearby not 
at the normal route.

Given it was on the Biggin Hill website as a planned route you'd think 
they would have noted that.

Eventually on arrival at Biggin Hill we found ourselves at the longest 
queue of people you'd ever seen. The ticket office didnt take debit or 
credit cards for some reason I can't understand and to make it even 
worse they had run out of tickets. I asked them who was in charge - they 
didnt know or care. Forcing us to just stand hopelessly in the queue.

Once we got in the place was packed to the gunnels. We had an ice cream 
and the obligatory donut and watched the part of the display we had not 
missed. I assume that the weekend tickets were all used on Sunday 
because Saturday was a poor day.

Chatting to people and overhearing conversations we had done relatively 
well it seemed. The 'express' bus in the morning took three hours door 
to door.

We left before the end. Choosing to take the express bus (£4 each, no 
travelcard here) back to Croydon then the train back to Leatherhead.

I was left thinking how we Brits do love to put on a good show for our 
tormented customers who must surely do it for the pleasure of spending 
60 quid on well not very much really except for a painful day.

Of course this only happens every year so its not possible to plan it 
better I suppose.

mf

On 5 Jun, 18:59, Mizter T  wrote:
> On 5 Jun, 18:13, Rupert Candy  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 5, 3:35 pm, Mizter T  wrote:
>
> > > Most intriguingly it then goes on to say this:
> > > "On the sections of routes 373, 402, 477 and 500 where Transport for
> > > London passes are valid, customers who have a validOystercardto pay
> > > as they go can travel at a cash fare of 90p."
>
> > > I think I interpret that to mean that passengers on the relevant
> > > sections of these four routes can produce anOystercardfor visual
> > > inspection and then pay a 90p fare in cash to the driver.
>
> > > The leaflet is undoubtedly somewhat unclear on the whole situation. I
> > > suppose one could take the above sentence to mean thatOysterPAYG is
> > > only valid on those four bus routes, but I don't think that's right
> > > (it doesn't tally with my recollections for a start).
>
> > On the 477 and 402 at least, it's because they're operated using non-
> > London buses which don't haveOystercompatible ticket machines.
>
> I had presumed that to be the case.
>
>
>
> > I've never tried using my (Oyster-borne) bus pass on the 402, though
> > though presumably if I showed therecordcardit would be accepted in
> > Greater London.
>
> Very good point, I had completely overlooked the whole issue of
> Travelcards and Bus Passes issued onOyster.
>
> I believe properRecordCards are only issued for monthly or longer
> period tickets, and what's more they're only issued when you buy from
> a Tube station ticket office.
>
> When buying from a newsagent (sorry,OysterTicket Stop) then you'll
> get a receipt that details what ticket you purchased, as I think you
> will if you buy from a National Rail ticket office.
>
> The self-service Tube ticket machines are certainly capable of issuing
> such a receipt but I think you have to specifically request it, as it
> is not issued automatically.
>
> Not sure what the situation is when it comes to London Overground
> ticket offices and ticket machines.
>
> I can certainly imagine potential problems when trying to use a
> Travelcard or Bus Pass onOysteron one of these four fringe bus
> routes on which this special (i.e. odd) arrangement applies (i.e. the
> 373, 402, 477 and 500).- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I bought a monthly travelcard on Oyster from a machine at Kew Gardens
Station two months ago.  No option for a receipt or a Record card, and
the machine registered an error in the middle of the transaction.  I
asked at the ticket office - he said there was no need for a record
card as all National Rail in London has Oyster readers.  I now know
this is not true. I got a print-out from him which showed that the
wrong dates were on my card (I now had two overlapping monthly
travelcards).  After two long phone calls to Oyster the situation was
sorted out.

I will in future buy my travelcard from the machines at Hammersmith
station which automatically gives a Record Card, and gives the option
for getting a receipt (two different bits of paper).

Many of the people who deal with this system do not understand it.