In the not too distant past, there used to be sunroofs and windows on
the upper deck front windows.

Why don't modern buses have these? They provide fantastic ventilation

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 11:59:48 -0700 (PDT), archibaldmarsh@googlemail.com
wrote:


>
>Why don't modern buses have these? They provide fantastic ventilation
Because I for one don't like a cold draughts whistling round my ears
when sat to the rear of the bus up stairs or down ,I actually had to
get up and close two windows on a bus I was traveling on at 8 am this
morning that some idiots had left open .  
>In the not too distant past, there used to be sunroofs and windows on
>the upper deck front windows.
Operative words being not too distant past modern buses should not
need additional ventilation and for the majority of passengers they
don't ,it is only the fresh air freaks that open any window that they
can get their hand on when they first board a bus and would also ban
smoking everywhere out side a persons home.
Thank God there are no windows to open on Virgin trains.
On the same subject I was on Wigan Bus station this morning where the 
waiting areas are all closed in so I stepped outside into the fresh
air and a uniformed pillock rolled up besides me and says you cannot
smoke here sir !! . He then pointed across the bus aprons at a glass
door and said go through that door and you can smoke sir so I wandered
over went through the door and entered a low ceiling ed passage way
leading out onto the street. So it was ok for myself and others to
smoke there filling everyones lungs with second hand smoke that
entered or left the bus station but not ok for anyone to smoke out in
the fresh air on the bus aprons.

wrote in message 
news:i0ol441lrftmsctg4893d828e37v31kv6f@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 11:59:48 -0700 (PDT), archibaldmarsh@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Why don't modern buses have these? They provide fantastic ventilation
> Because I for one don't like a cold draughts whistling round my ears
> when sat to the rear of the bus up stairs or down ,I actually had to
> get up and close two windows on a bus I was traveling on at 8 am this
> morning that some idiots had left open .
>>In the not too distant past, there used to be sunroofs and windows on
>>the upper deck front windows.
> Operative words being not too distant past modern buses should not
> need additional ventilation and for the majority of passengers they
> don't ,it is only the fresh air freaks that open any window that they
> can get their hand on when they first board a bus and would also ban
> smoking everywhere out side a persons home.

Unfortunately, this is incorrect. Some modern buses have heaters that aren't 
(or can't be) turned off, and on some others, air-conditioning systems are 
incapable of keeping buses cool on hot summer days. Therefore, opening 
windows are essential, otherwise in summer, the bus interior becomes 
oppressively hot, and potentially damaging to health of passengers.

Bevan

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 22:18:26 +0100, "Bevan Price"
<meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom> wrote:

>Unfortunately, this is incorrect. Some modern buses have heaters that aren't 
>(or can't be) turned off, and on some others, air-conditioning systems are 
>incapable of keeping buses cool on hot summer days. Therefore, opening 
>windows are essential, otherwise in summer, the bus interior becomes 
>oppressively hot, and potentially damaging to health of passengers.

And without air-con, smelly.  However, the extractor fans fitted to
many London buses circulate air very nicely which avoids windows
steaming up and that horrible musty bus smell without the cost, energy
use and maintenance overhead of aircon.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

mymail@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 11:59:48 -0700 (PDT), archibaldmarsh@googlemail.com
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Why don't modern buses have these? They provide fantastic ventilation
> Because I for one don't like a cold draughts whistling round my ears
> when sat to the rear of the bus up stairs or down ,I actually had to
> get up and close two windows on a bus I was traveling on at 8 am this
> morning that some idiots had left open .  
>> In the not too distant past, there used to be sunroofs and windows on
>> the upper deck front windows.
> Operative words being not too distant past modern buses should not
> need additional ventilation and for the majority of passengers they
> don't ,it is only the fresh air freaks that open any window that they
> can get their hand on when they first board a bus and would also ban
> smoking everywhere out side a persons home.
> Thank God there are no windows to open on Virgin trains.
> On the same subject I was on Wigan Bus station this morning where the 
> waiting areas are all closed in so I stepped outside into the fresh
> air and a uniformed pillock rolled up besides me and says you cannot
> smoke here sir !! . He then pointed across the bus aprons at a glass
> door and said go through that door and you can smoke sir so I wandered
> over went through the door and entered a low ceiling ed passage way
> leading out onto the street. So it was ok for myself and others to
> smoke there filling everyones lungs with second hand smoke that
> entered or left the bus station but not ok for anyone to smoke out in
> the fresh air on the bus aprons.   
> 

You know the answer, don't you? Give up the disgusting, filthy, 
anti-social habit!

Brian.

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 17:23:18 +0100, Brian Robertson
<brianro@[nospam].com> wrote:


>You know the answer, don't you? Give up the disgusting, filthy, 
>anti-social habit!
>
Ok Brian when the boozing fraternity stop drinking nasty beer and
sprits and coming out of pubs and clubs and throwing up all over the
pavements and buses and picking fights and injuring  other members of
the public then I and others will stop smoking but not until .   
I find what I have mentioned above just has a disgusting and filthy
anti-social habit also in fact more so, all the no smoking nonsense is
doing a very good job of driving pub landlords out of business .I can 
think of four pubs within a half mile radius of here that have had to
close down solely due to the smoking legislation of a few months ago
all where thriving pubs before the stupid smoking ban was put in
place.
I see the brainless government in this country not content with doing
their best to put publicans on the dole has now set about putting
tobacconists out of business and sending them to the dole queue also.
My God roll on 2010 lets get the shower put back on the opposite side
of the house and this time the people of this country should make sure
Brown and gang stay there for good .

mymail@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 17:23:18 +0100, Brian Robertson
> <brianro@[nospam].com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> You know the answer, don't you? Give up the disgusting, filthy, 
>> anti-social habit!
>>
> Ok Brian when the boozing fraternity stop drinking nasty beer and
> sprits and coming out of pubs and clubs and throwing up all over the
> pavements and buses and picking fights and injuring  other members of
> the public then I and others will stop smoking but not until .   
> I find what I have mentioned above just has a disgusting and filthy
> anti-social habit also in fact more so, all the no smoking nonsense is
> doing a very good job of driving pub landlords out of business .I can 
> think of four pubs within a half mile radius of here that have had to
> close down solely due to the smoking legislation of a few months ago
> all where thriving pubs before the stupid smoking ban was put in
> place.
> I see the brainless government in this country not content with doing
> their best to put publicans on the dole has now set about putting
> tobacconists out of business and sending them to the dole queue also.
> My God roll on 2010 lets get the shower put back on the opposite side
> of the house and this time the people of this country should make sure
> Brown and gang stay there for good .  

But it still does my heart good to see smokers shivering outside the 
remaining pubs, finally the social pariah that they deserve to be.

Brian.

In news:jvU2k.157515$cZ3.81892@newsfe10.ams2,
Brian Robertson <brianro@[nospam].com> typed, for some strange, 
unexplained reason:

[snip]

: But it still does my heart good to see smokers shivering outside the
: remaining pubs, finally the social pariah that they deserve to be.

Why..? Because *you* don't like it..? Oh dear.

I like pubs. I like smoking. The regulars in my local had a poll before 
the ban came in; the result was overwhelmingly in favour of allowing 
smoking. Why is that a problem for anyone..? If you don't like it, find a 
non-smoking pub. Wouldn't want you in our pub anyway.

Still, you've got your way, although why you want to force your opinons on 
others is a mystery to me.

Ivor

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 18:18:10 +0100, Brian Robertson
<brianro@[nospam].com> wrote:


>But it still does my heart good to see smokers shivering outside the 
>remaining pubs, finally the social pariah that they deserve to be.
I wonder if you will be of the same opinion when the chancellor
introduces a rise in VAT to 25% or so to make up the loss in revenue
from tobacco sales . 
If this country carry's on down the path it is going for much longer
we shall be forbidden to brake wind in a public place before long .

Ivor Jones wrote:
> In news:jvU2k.157515$cZ3.81892@newsfe10.ams2,
> Brian Robertson <brianro@[nospam].com> typed, for some strange, 
> unexplained reason:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> : But it still does my heart good to see smokers shivering outside the
> : remaining pubs, finally the social pariah that they deserve to be.
> 
> Why..? Because *you* don't like it..? Oh dear.
> 
> I like pubs. I like smoking. The regulars in my local had a poll before 
> the ban came in; the result was overwhelmingly in favour of allowing 
> smoking. Why is that a problem for anyone..? If you don't like it, find a 
> non-smoking pub. Wouldn't want you in our pub anyway.
> 
> Still, you've got your way, although why you want to force your opinons on 
> others is a mystery to me.
> 
> Ivor
> 

You got it in one! I got my way and you lost.

Ha ha ha ha.

Brian.

PS And don't forget to bin those fag ends when you are out there in the 
freezing cold. There are big on the spot fines for littering, you know.

In news:eqW2k.21708$RE7.11926@newsfe08.ams2,
Brian Robertson <brianro@[nospam].com> typed, for some strange, 
unexplained reason:
: Ivor Jones wrote:
: > In news:jvU2k.157515$cZ3.81892@newsfe10.ams2,
: > Brian Robertson <brianro@[nospam].com> typed, for some strange,
: > unexplained reason:
: >
: > [snip]
: >
: > : But it still does my heart good to see smokers shivering outside
: > : the remaining pubs, finally the social pariah that they deserve
: > : to be.
: >
: > Why..? Because *you* don't like it..? Oh dear.
: >
: > I like pubs. I like smoking. The regulars in my local had a poll
: > before the ban came in; the result was overwhelmingly in favour of
: > allowing smoking. Why is that a problem for anyone..? If you don't
: > like it, find a non-smoking pub. Wouldn't want you in our pub
: > anyway.
: >
: > Still, you've got your way, although why you want to force your
: > opinons on others is a mystery to me.
: >
: > Ivor
: >
:
: You got it in one! I got my way and you lost.
:
: Ha ha ha ha.

Well doesn't that just say it all. Nothing to do with health or pollution 
at all, just you putting one over on me.

Enjoy your victory while it lasts.

: PS And don't forget to bin those fag ends when you are out there in
: the freezing cold. There are big on the spot fines for littering, you
: know.

Who said I smoke cigarettes..?

Ivor

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 20:37:49 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:

>In news:eqW2k.21708$RE7.11926@newsfe08.ams2,
>Brian Robertson <brianro@[nospam].com> typed, for some strange, 
>unexplained reason:
>: Ivor Jones wrote:
>: > In news:jvU2k.157515$cZ3.81892@newsfe10.ams2,
>: > Brian Robertson <brianro@[nospam].com> typed, for some strange,
>: > unexplained reason:
>: >
>: > [snip]
>: >
>: > : But it still does my heart good to see smokers shivering outside
>: > : the remaining pubs, finally the social pariah that they deserve
>: > : to be.
>: >
>: > Why..? Because *you* don't like it..? Oh dear.
>: >
>: > I like pubs. I like smoking. The regulars in my local had a poll
>: > before the ban came in; the result was overwhelmingly in favour of
>: > allowing smoking. Why is that a problem for anyone..? If you don't
>: > like it, find a non-smoking pub. Wouldn't want you in our pub
>: > anyway.
>: >
>: > Still, you've got your way, although why you want to force your
>: > opinons on others is a mystery to me.
>: >
>: > Ivor
>: >
>:
>: You got it in one! I got my way and you lost.
>:
>: Ha ha ha ha.
>
>Well doesn't that just say it all. Nothing to do with health or pollution 
>at all, just you putting one over on me.
>
>Enjoy your victory while it lasts.
>
>: PS And don't forget to bin those fag ends when you are out there in
>: the freezing cold. There are big on the spot fines for littering, you
>: know.
>
>Who said I smoke cigarettes..?
>
>Ivor
They must be a tight bunch of publicans round his area Ivor round here
the more wealthy ones who have plenty of land have put tables outside
with large umbrellas that have three I think electric heaters hanging
from the spokes of the umbrellas to each table to keep customers warm
. 
However I am 100% in favor of no smoking on buses hell I will always
remember doing an early morning run to pick up the night shift from
the local courtalls factory in Preston they used to fill six deckers
each morning nearly all of them where dark skinned Indians or Pack's I
think and they did stink ! some stuff that they used in the factory
that got on their clothing . When they all got on the first thing they
did was light up, each of the six buses was allotted a 30 minute stand
in the bus station before going on any other journey and before
leaving our respective buses we all had to open all the windows and
leave the door open .
Even on a freezing cold morning the heaters where never switched 
on:))))))))))))))))))).

wrote in message 
news:q43o44db3td8nbogce9sttb1g38dvl56nk@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 17:23:18 +0100, Brian Robertson
> <brianro@[nospam].com> wrote:
>
>
>>You know the answer, don't you? Give up the disgusting, filthy,
>>anti-social habit!
>>
> Ok Brian when the boozing fraternity stop drinking nasty beer and
> sprits and coming out of pubs and clubs and throwing up all over the
> pavements and buses and picking fights and injuring  other members of
> the public then I and others will stop smoking but not until .
> I find what I have mentioned above just has a disgusting and filthy
> anti-social habit also in fact more so, all the no smoking nonsense is
> doing a very good job of driving pub landlords out of business .I can
> think of four pubs within a half mile radius of here that have had to
> close down solely due to the smoking legislation of a few months ago
> all where thriving pubs before the stupid smoking ban was put in
> place.
> I see the brainless government in this country not content with doing
> their best to put publicans on the dole has now set about putting
> tobacconists out of business and sending them to the dole queue also.
> My God roll on 2010 lets get the shower put back on the opposite side
> of the house and this time the people of this country should make sure
> Brown and gang stay there for good .

What makes you think the Tories would be any better for the majority of 
people ? It was they who made a mess of public transport, for example, 
fragmenting the rail network and helping destroy most of what little 
bus-rail coordination had existed prior to 1986.

Bevan

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:09:51 +0100, "Bevan Price"
<meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom> wrote:


>What makes you think the Tories would be any better for the majority of 
>people ?

Just who is bothered about the majority of people the majority of
people are not bothered about me. I have always done better under a
Tory government than this lot Labor new or old are full of big ideas
which cost big money, money which they have always had to go to the
 IMF cap in hand for .
We had a Labor council here until last year that had big spending
ideas thank God the majority of people here voted blue or the council
tax would probably have been doubled this year .
> It was they who made a mess of public transport, 
And this shower have made it better have they the damned Labor
controlled council in Manchester are stomping at the bit to introduce
congestion charging as if the motorist who have to travel into the
city center every day haven't enough to pay !! .
What is Brown doing about the daily soaring cost of fuel oil which he
has the power to take the pressure of motorists by cutting the vat and
fuel duty but he continues to  rake it in every single day and doesn't
give a damn . 
No one will ever convince me that a Labor government is good for the
working people of this country Brown thought he would buy votes from
the over sixties in this land by giving them all free transport on
buses . What he didn't do was explain simply and clearly which bus
services a person can use his/her concessionary pass on, it has been
my experience in recent weeks that many staff in bus companies
customer services don't have a clue either . 
It is like him giving an old person a new TV set and not supplying a
Manuel or even telling the recipient how to switch the thing on .
No Bevan the writing is on the wall for all to see regarding Brown and
his gang the Crewe election the other week has made this very clear
come 2010 and Labor will almost disappear from the houses of
Parliament may heaven be praised .

mymail@hotmail.com wrote:
> No one will ever convince me that a Labor government is good for the
> working people of this country

That's a strange coincidence, because no one will ever convince me that 
people who vote Tory shouldn't be put against a wall and shot. (And, no, 
you can't have a cigarette as a last request. It's bad for you!)

I have a bottle of Moet - can't stretch to decent stuff I'm afraid - in 
the fridge that will be opened the day THAT woman dies. And I shall send 
a cheque to the NUM for them to donate to an appropriate charity on my 
behalf. In an ideal world, every member of a Tory government since the 
early 80s should stand trial for treason.

Class war, NOW!

Brian.

On Jun 8, 8:17 pm, "Ivor Jones" <i...@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
> Innews:jvU2k.157515$cZ3.81892@newsfe10.ams2,
> Brian Robertson <brianro@[nospam].com> typed, for some strange,
> unexplained reason:
>
> [snip]
>
> : But it still does my heart good to see smokers shivering outside the
> : remaining pubs, finally the social pariah that they deserve to be.
>
> Why..? Because *you* don't like it..? Oh dear.
>
> I like pubs. I like smoking. The regulars in my local had a poll before
> the ban came in; the result was overwhelmingly in favour of allowing
> smoking. Why is that a problem for anyone..? If you don't like it, find a
> non-smoking pub. Wouldn't want you in our pub anyway.
>
> Still, you've got your way, although why you want to force your opinons on
> others is a mystery to me.
>
> Ivor

Ivor,

Look up the concepts of "social trap", "prisoner's dillemma", "path
dependance", and "market failure" to understand some of the reasoning
behind smoking bans. Hopelly then it will be less of a mystery.

In news:36c138b5-9a13-4462-8690-e4c3a5600bf8@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
Mastuna  typed, for some strange, unexplained 
reason:

[snip]

: Look up the concepts of "social trap", "prisoner's dillemma", "path
: dependance", and "market failure" to understand some of the reasoning
: behind smoking bans. Hopelly then it will be less of a mystery.

None of those explain why, when an entire pub's clientele vote in favour 
of allowing smoking, the government bans it anyway.

It's not the only pub I know of where the regulars didn't want a ban.

There was a case on the local news here in the Midlands where a club, the 
sole purpose of which was to provide a meeting place for smoking those 
oriental water pipes (the name of which escapes me) was fined a large sum 
of money and forced to close. Why..? Ok so it was technically a public 
place, but nobody, I repeat NOBODY went in there *unless* they wanted to 
smoke..!

WTF..?!!

Ivor

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:52:06 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:


>None of those explain why, when an entire pub's clientele vote in favour 
>of allowing smoking, the government bans it anyway.

But you see Ivor we are talking about a public place here the entire
pubs clientele may not object but I may just walk in the pub and
object to smoke and smoking . 
>It's not the only pub I know of where the regulars didn't want a ban.
You have got to consider the fact that a stranger may just wander in.
I am slowly coming round to liking the smoking ban in bars and eating
establishments etc but the problem I encountered last Saterday was
just stupid . Oh you cannot smoke anywhere on the bus station sir but
go into a confinded space a few yards away that people have to pass
through to get onto the bus station and you can smoke your head of
!!!!! .
Regarding buses here is one that I have driven quite a few times when
buses where buses :)))) .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO9JM_3Y1xI

In news:2tft44hikvo6r370ng293evekmfichum7b@4ax.com,
mymail@hotmail.com  typed, for some strange, 
unexplained reason:
: On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:52:06 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
: <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
:
:
: >None of those explain why, when an entire pub's clientele vote in
: >favour of allowing smoking, the government bans it anyway.
:
: But you see Ivor we are talking about a public place here the entire
: pubs clientele may not object but I may just walk in the pub and
: object to smoke and smoking .

So let them walk out again and into another pub. The pub in question is 
one of three within 100 yards of one another, it's not as if it was the 
only one for miles.

: >It's not the only pub I know of where the regulars didn't want a ban.

: You have got to consider the fact that a stranger may just wander in.

As above.

Ivor

wrote in message 
news:2tft44hikvo6r370ng293evekmfichum7b@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:52:06 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
>
>
[....]> !!!!! .
> Regarding buses here is one that I have driven quite a few times when
> buses where buses :)))) .
> Don't see why people shouldn't smoke.

After all, the buses do.......

:o)

mymail@hotmail.com wrote:

> Because I for one don't like a cold draughts whistling round my ears
> when sat to the rear of the bus up stairs or down ,I actually had to
> get up and close two windows on a bus I was traveling on at 8 am this
> morning that some idiots had left open .  

> Operative words being not too distant past modern buses should not
> need additional ventilation and for the majority of passengers they
> don't ,it is only the fresh air freaks that open any window that they
> can get their hand on when they first board a bus and would also ban
> smoking everywhere out side a persons home.
> Thank God there are no windows to open on Virgin trains.



I got on the Tube yesterday morning for my usual journey to work and 
some idiots had closed all the windows in the car end doors. I had to 
walk through and open them all again.

There does seem to be a hardcore element out there who HATE any sort of 
fresh air circulating in public transport, and will happily sit there 
with all the windows closed while everyone else sweats. If you're cold, 
it's much easier to put on another layer than it is for someone hot to 
cool down if you refuse to let them open the windows!

(I do find the "windows closed at all costs" thing more common on 
European railways than in the UK though).

I do, however, share your views on the smoking ban!

Cheers

Steve M

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:26:39 +0100, Steve M 
wrote:


>I got on the Tube yesterday morning for my usual journey to work and 
>some idiots had closed all the windows in the car end doors. I had to 
>walk through and open them all again.
I happen to have arthritis in my neck and my knees and I do not
propose to go out in the middle of summer with a great scarf round my
neck just because you and a few other fresh air freaks wish to have a
cold draught blowing round every other passengers necks and heads.
My remarks are mainly directed at fresh air freaks on buses I have yet
to have problems on the tube being a very infrequent tube traveler and
probably will never travel on the tube again now Eurostar has moved to
St Panc . On the other hand I have also wished for some cool air when
on the tube between Euston and Waterloo especially during the summer
period , most horrible places are tube stations and tube trains but so
is London in general ! .

mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:26:39 +0100, Steve M 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> I got on the Tube yesterday morning for my usual journey to work and 
>> some idiots had closed all the windows in the car end doors. I had to 
>> walk through and open them all again.
> I happen to have arthritis in my neck and my knees and I do not
> propose to go out in the middle of summer with a great scarf round my
> neck just because you and a few other fresh air freaks wish to have a
> cold draught blowing round every other passengers necks and heads.
> My remarks are mainly directed at fresh air freaks on buses I have yet
> to have problems on the tube being a very infrequent tube traveler and
> probably will never travel on the tube again now Eurostar has moved to
> St Panc . On the other hand I have also wished for some cool air when
> on the tube between Euston and Waterloo especially during the summer
> period , most horrible places are tube stations and tube trains but so
> is London in general ! .     
  But what is worse? Do you really want to breath air that has passed 
though dozens of bodies and maybe diseased lungs then exited through
various  odoriferous orifices? Still what ever turns on.

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:04:31 +0100, Kevin 
wrote:


>  But what is worse? Do you really want to breath air that has passed 
>though dozens of bodies and maybe diseased lungs then exited through
>various  odoriferous orifices? Still what ever turns on.
Rather that then having to stuff pain killers down my throat due to a
stiff neck which is " damaged" to start with due to arthritis which
was caused by driving buses years ago and having to have cab windows
open in order to give hand signals before buses where made so
comfortable to drive even women can drive them these days .

mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:26:39 +0100, Steve M 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> I got on the Tube yesterday morning for my usual journey to work and 
>> some idiots had closed all the windows in the car end doors. I had to 
>> walk through and open them all again.
> I happen to have arthritis in my neck and my knees and I do not
> propose to go out in the middle of summer with a great scarf round my
> neck just because you and a few other fresh air freaks wish to have a
> cold draught blowing round every other passengers necks and heads.
> My remarks are mainly directed at fresh air freaks on buses I have yet
> to have problems on the tube being a very infrequent tube traveler and
> probably will never travel on the tube again now Eurostar has moved to
> St Panc . On the other hand I have also wished for some cool air when
> on the tube between Euston and Waterloo especially during the summer
> period , most horrible places are tube stations and tube trains but so
> is London in general ! .     

Your arthritis is not my problem though. If it's summer, or even a warm 
spring day, then I'm going to open the bus windows. If you choose not to 
wear a scarf to keep warm, then I'm sorry, but either sit downstairs or 
near the front upstairs, or keep silent. You'd rather we all sweat and 
suffer just so you don't have to?

Cheers

Steve M

mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:04:31 +0100, Kevin 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>  But what is worse? Do you really want to breath air that has passed 
>> though dozens of bodies and maybe diseased lungs then exited through
>> various  odoriferous orifices? Still what ever turns on.
> Rather that then having to stuff pain killers down my throat due to a
> stiff neck which is " damaged" to start with due to arthritis which
> was caused by driving buses years ago and having to have cab windows
> open in order to give hand signals before buses where made so
> comfortable to drive even women can drive them these days .

"I'm all right, Jack", eh?

And what's wrong with women bus drivers? Are you still of the opinion 
that driving a bus is a male role, and women should be at home chained 
to the sink? Times have moved on my friend...

Cheers

Steve M

"Steve M"  wrote in message 
news:6bln3bF3afndrU2@mid.individual.net...
> mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:04:31 +0100, Kevin 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>  But what is worse? Do you really want to breath air that has passed 
>>> though dozens of bodies and maybe diseased lungs then exited through
>>> various  odoriferous orifices? Still what ever turns on.
>> Rather that then having to stuff pain killers down my throat due to a
>> stiff neck which is " damaged" to start with due to arthritis which
>> was caused by driving buses years ago and having to have cab windows
>> open in order to give hand signals before buses where made so
>> comfortable to drive even women can drive them these days .
>
Women were driving buses fifty years ago.

When buses WERE buses.

Women WERE women.

(and men WERE worried..... :o)    )

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:11:22 +0100, "Ian D Henden" 
wrote:

>
>"Steve M"  wrote in message 
>news:6bln3bF3afndrU2@mid.individual.net...
>> mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:04:31 +0100, Kevin 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>  But what is worse? Do you really want to breath air that has passed 
>>>> though dozens of bodies and maybe diseased lungs then exited through
>>>> various  odoriferous orifices? Still what ever turns on.
>>> Rather that then having to stuff pain killers down my throat due to a
>>> stiff neck which is " damaged" to start with due to arthritis which
>>> was caused by driving buses years ago and having to have cab windows
>>> open in order to give hand signals before buses where made so
>>> comfortable to drive even women can drive them these days .
>>
>Women were driving buses fifty years ago.

Not up here they weren't it was around 1970 before my company first
started to train women to drive and our local private bus company has
only started employing women drivers since last year and they have
only got two now .
One of them is excellent she makes sure anyone that isn't all that
steady on their pins is sat down before driving of and gives a very
smooth ride and I would sooner ride behind her than any of her male
counterparts the other I wouldn't pay with washers.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:28:18 +0100, Steve M 
wrote:


>Your arthritis is not my problem though. If it's summer, or even a warm 
>spring day, then I'm going to open the bus windows.
A typical southern persons attitude I have traveled on no less than
six buses today and not one window open which is usually the case
unless some young claver mick gets on and opens all the windows and
gets of at the next stop !!! .

wrote in message 
news:at4d549gbj5iur272690u1b3vou78f25t8@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:11:22 +0100, "Ian D Henden" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Steve M"  wrote in message
>>news:6bln3bF3afndrU2@mid.individual.net...
>>> mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:04:31 +0100, Kevin 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  But what is worse? Do you really want to breath air that has passed
>>>>> though dozens of bodies and maybe diseased lungs then exited through
>>>>> various  odoriferous orifices? Still what ever turns on.
>>>> Rather that then having to stuff pain killers down my throat due to a
>>>> stiff neck which is " damaged" to start with due to arthritis which
>>>> was caused by driving buses years ago and having to have cab windows
>>>> open in order to give hand signals before buses where made so
>>>> comfortable to drive even women can drive them these days .
>>>
>>Women were driving buses fifty years ago.
>
> Not up here they weren't it was around 1970 before my company first
> started to train women to drive and our local private bus company has
> only started employing women drivers since last year and they have
> only got two now .
> One of them is excellent she makes sure anyone that isn't all that
> steady on their pins is sat down before driving of and gives a very
> smooth ride and I would sooner ride behind her than any of her male
> counterparts the other I wouldn't pay with washers.

There was a lady bus driver on "What's My Line" with Gilbert Harding.  She 
worked for Provincial at Hoeford in the '50s.

And most companys used women drivers in the early '40s... not many fit men 
around, you see...

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:39:44 +0100, "Ian D Henden" 
wrote:


>There was a lady bus driver on "What's My Line" with Gilbert Harding.  She 
>worked for Provincial at Hoeford in the '50s.
>
>And most companys used women drivers in the early '40s... not many fit men 
>around, you see... 
>
There are not many women drivers about up here even now back in the
late eighties when I left Ribble we had four lesbian couples driving
and that was it no real women :)) .

mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:28:18 +0100, Steve M 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Your arthritis is not my problem though. If it's summer, or even a warm 
>> spring day, then I'm going to open the bus windows.
> A typical southern persons attitude I have traveled on no less than
> six buses today and not one window open which is usually the case
> unless some young claver mick gets on and opens all the windows and
> gets of at the next stop !!! .

I'd bet I'm more Northern than you are, my friend! Yes, I live in London 
now, but I'd have done exactly the same thing back in Scotland in my 
younger days.

Well, except on the old Y-Type Leopards, as you couldn't open the 
windows on them!

Cheers

Steve M

archibaldmarsh@googlemail.com wrote:
> In the not too distant past, there used to be sunroofs and windows on
> the upper deck front windows.
> 
> Why don't modern buses have these? They provide fantastic ventilation

Slightly to the Side, any idea why the Windows on Stagecoach MAN Enviro 
200s are so mismatched

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:29:43 +0100, Mark B  wrote:

>Slightly to the Side, any idea why the Windows on Stagecoach MAN Enviro 
>200s are so mismatched

In what way?

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:29:43 +0100, Mark B  wrote:
> 
>> Slightly to the Side, any idea why the Windows on Stagecoach MAN Enviro 
>> 200s are so mismatched
> 
> In what way?
> 
> Neil
> 
http://west-midlands-bus-pictures.fpic.co.uk/p50920427.html

You would have thought they could have styled the exit door better

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:29:43 +0100, Mark B  wrote:

>archibaldmarsh@googlemail.com wrote:
>> In the not too distant past, there used to be sunroofs and windows on
>> the upper deck front windows.
>> 
>> Why don't modern buses have these? They provide fantastic ventilation
>
>Slightly to the Side, any idea why the Windows on Stagecoach MAN Enviro 
>200s are so mismatched
I rode on one of these for the first time on Saturday I was  upstairs
and as soon has the bus pulled out of the bus station in Manchester
everyone reached up and closed their window and I would add that
there where quite a few YOUNG people who closed the windows also.
The only fault I could find with the Enviro was the engine seemed to
be very noisy in comparison with the other deckers that Stagecoach
have .

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:44:08 +0100, Mark B  wrote:

>http://west-midlands-bus-pictures.fpic.co.uk/p50920427.html
>
>You would have thought they could have styled the exit door better

Ugh, that looks ugly.  The whole thing does look slightly better with
rounded windows than the more common square ones, though.  Wonder why
Stagecoach specified a different shape to most other operators?

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:29:43 +0100, Mark B  wrote:
> 
>> archibaldmarsh@googlemail.com wrote:
>>> In the not too distant past, there used to be sunroofs and windows on
>>> the upper deck front windows.
>>>
>>> Why don't modern buses have these? They provide fantastic ventilation
>> Slightly to the Side, any idea why the Windows on Stagecoach MAN Enviro 
>> 200s are so mismatched
> I rode on one of these for the first time on Saturday I was  upstairs
> and as soon has the bus pulled out of the bus station in Manchester
> everyone reached up and closed their window and I would add that
> there where quite a few YOUNG people who closed the windows also.
> The only fault I could find with the Enviro was the engine seemed to
> be very noisy in comparison with the other deckers that Stagecoach
> have . 
  You wouldn't have been upstairs in a MAN Enviro - As far as I'm aware 
the only people who do a MAN chassied decker is Optare (the former East 
Lancs)

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:18:55 +0100, Mark B  wrote:


>  You wouldn't have been upstairs in a MAN Enviro - As far as I'm aware 
>the only people who do a MAN chassied decker is Optare (the former East 
>Lancs)
To be honest Mark it is the changing times the had me confused I was
still thinking that bus manufactures still kept to one name for one
design of bus . There was never a "single deck" Atlantean  made was
there or a "double deck" Leyland National .Here in the Preston area
all we see are the DD versions of the Enviro and I just never thought
that there maybe a single deck version made .

mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:18:55 +0100, Mark B  wrote:
> 
> 
>>  You wouldn't have been upstairs in a MAN Enviro - As far as I'm aware 
>> the only people who do a MAN chassied decker is Optare (the former East 
>> Lancs)
> To be honest Mark it is the changing times the had me confused I was
> still thinking that bus manufactures still kept to one name for one
> design of bus . There was never a "single deck" Atlantean  made was
> there or a "double deck" Leyland National .Here in the Preston area
> all we see are the DD versions of the Enviro and I just never thought
> that there maybe a single deck version made . 

There are 2 in production single decks in the Enviro series - the 
200Dart (small) and 300 (large) as well as 2 decker designs the 400 (UK) 
and 500 (Tri-Axle Export)

It follows the form of the ALX series that Alexander did before the 
Transbus merger.

Enviro200 - was a hybrid between a continental citybus and midibus - it 
was not a success as only 2 were sold!
Enviro200Dart - Basicly a Dennis Dart with Alexander bodywork - 
confusingly is also availible on MAN chassis (to give a choice on Euro4 
systems*) - Equivilent to the ALX200 of old. This was more successful
Enviro300 - A full size bus, initially an integral but now is on Dennis 
or MAN chassis. Equivilent to the ALX300 of old
Enviro400 - The former Dennis Trident - a standard UK decker (ALX400)
Enviro500 - Export Tridents (ALX500)

With the Merger with Plaxton I wouldn't be surprised if the Primo 
doesn't become the Enviro100.

Most other manufactures do use different names to distinguish, its just 
ADL who are going for a single style and name (Though Scania come close 
with their Omni series - OmniCity & OmniLink in the UK)

*Euro 4&5 Emission levels are done by either SCR - which involves 
injecting scrubbing agents (Urea) into the exhaust, as fitted to Cummins 
engines used in Dennis products, Volvo, VDL and Mercedes. MAN and Scania 
use EGR, which uses complicated pipework to scrub the exhaust, but does 
not need an extra tank of sheeps pee. The jury is still out on which is 
best, so bodybuilders are offering a choice (as illustrated by Optare 
offering MAN engines (as well as Mercedes) and Plaxton, ADL and Wright 
offering new MAN or Scania combinations.

Stagecoach prefer EGR, so are going down the MAN route for single decks, 
and are trying the Enviro400 decker bodywork on a Scania chassis in 
Manchester and Oxford (the Scania's have no rear window becuase of the 
engine gubbins)

Hope that made sense

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:29:03 +0100, Mark B  wrote:


>With the Merger with Plaxton I wouldn't be surprised if the Primo 
>doesn't become the Enviro100.
Our local bus company J Fishwick & Sons have just bought two Primo's
pride of the fleet they are and the staff speak highly of them .

>Most other manufactures do use different names to distinguish, its just 
>ADL who are going for a single style and name (Though Scania come close 
>with their Omni series - OmniCity & OmniLink in the UK)
>
>*Euro 4&5 Emission levels are done by either SCR - which involves 
>injecting scrubbing agents (Urea) into the exhaust, as fitted to Cummins 
>engines used in Dennis products, Volvo, VDL and Mercedes. MAN and Scania 
>use EGR, which uses complicated pipework to scrub the exhaust, but does 
>not need an extra tank of sheeps pee. The jury is still out on which is 
>best, so bodybuilders are offering a choice (as illustrated by Optare 
>offering MAN engines (as well as Mercedes) and Plaxton, ADL and Wright 
>offering new MAN or Scania combinations.
>
>Stagecoach prefer EGR, so are going down the MAN route for single decks, 
>and are trying the Enviro400 decker bodywork on a Scania chassis in 
>Manchester and Oxford (the Scania's have no rear window becuase of the 
>engine gubbins)
>
>Hope that made sense
Rather complicated the bus industry these days Mark the 400 deckers
that STG around here can't be on a Scania chassis then they all have
rear windows .
Back in my day all we ever saw where Leyland's can't think who built
the bodies I know Ribble used to have some deckers with East Lancs
bodies and most coaches where either Leyland's with Plaxton bodies or
Bedfords, I am going back to before I even left school of course and
left the industry when OMO became prevalent and STC started to gobble
up nearly all the bus companies in the UK  .

"Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
news:486913da.253688217@news.individual.net...
Wonder why
> Stagecoach specified a different shape to most other operators?
>
> Neil
The answer to that is that stagecoach specify gasket mounted windows 
whenever possible.

wrote in message 
news:4fli645trm9m1menrll2qa8oo867nrelbk@4ax.com...
> There was never a "single deck" Atlantean  made was
> there

Yes, Portsmouth for one had some.

or a "double deck" Leyland National .

Sort of, the titan was to be the double deck national, but acquired its name 
prior to launch.
Probably when they realised that it was nowhere near what they hoped for.

On 1 Jul, 06:44, "D.R."  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:4fli645trm9m1menrll2qa8oo867nrelbk@4ax.com...
>
> > There was never a "single deck" Atlantean  made was
> > there
>
> Yes, Portsmouth for one had some.

"New" s/d Atlanteans went to Gt Yarmouth (Marshall bodied PDR1/2),
Merseyside PTE (Birkenhead Order NCME bodied PDR2) and Portsmouth
(Seddon Bodied PDR2)

Southampton, Nottingham Fylde and some smaller operators had AN68s
from the Mid 1970s rebodied with ELC or (in Fyldes case PDR2s with
NCME bodies.   Gave them something with the passenger appeal of a Dart
for the cost of the body.


> or a "double deck" Leyland National .
>
> Sort of, the titan was to be the double deck national, but acquired its name
> prior to launch.
> Probably when they realised that it was nowhere near what they hoped for.

And NBC didn't want them and until 1984 NBC owned half of Bristol ECW
Roe and Leyland National.

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 06:44:21 +0100, "D.R."  wrote:


>> There was never a "single deck" Atlantean  made was
>> there

>Yes, Portsmouth for one had some.
Never seen any up here all we had where the deckers

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 06:39:11 +0100, "D.R."  wrote:

>The answer to that is that stagecoach specify gasket mounted windows 
>whenever possible. 

Correct, though the Enviros also offer gasket-mounted square windows -
indeed these are vastly more common.  Are they perhaps double-glazed?

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:39:44 +0100, "Ian D Henden" 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> There was a lady bus driver on "What's My Line" with Gilbert Harding.  She 
>> worked for Provincial at Hoeford in the '50s.
>>
>> And most companys used women drivers in the early '40s... not many fit men 
>> around, you see... 
>>
> There are not many women drivers about up here even now back in the
> late eighties when I left Ribble we had four lesbian couples driving
> and that was it no real women :)) .

Oh God, you want taking out and SHOOTING! You really are the lowest of 
the low.

Brian.

mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:29:03 +0100, Mark B  wrote:
> 
> 
>> With the Merger with Plaxton I wouldn't be surprised if the Primo 
>> doesn't become the Enviro100.
> Our local bus company J Fishwick & Sons have just bought two Primo's
> pride of the fleet they are and the staff speak highly of them .
> 
>> Most other manufactures do use different names to distinguish, its just 
>> ADL who are going for a single style and name (Though Scania come close 
>> with their Omni series - OmniCity & OmniLink in the UK)
>>
>> *Euro 4&5 Emission levels are done by either SCR - which involves 
>> injecting scrubbing agents (Urea) into the exhaust, as fitted to Cummins 
>> engines used in Dennis products, Volvo, VDL and Mercedes. MAN and Scania 
>> use EGR, which uses complicated pipework to scrub the exhaust, but does 
>> not need an extra tank of sheeps pee. The jury is still out on which is 
>> best, so bodybuilders are offering a choice (as illustrated by Optare 
>> offering MAN engines (as well as Mercedes) and Plaxton, ADL and Wright 
>> offering new MAN or Scania combinations.
>>
>> Stagecoach prefer EGR, so are going down the MAN route for single decks, 
>> and are trying the Enviro400 decker bodywork on a Scania chassis in 
>> Manchester and Oxford (the Scania's have no rear window becuase of the 
>> engine gubbins)
>>
>> Hope that made sense
> Rather complicated the bus industry these days Mark the 400 deckers
> that STG around here can't be on a Scania chassis then they all have
> rear windows .
> Back in my day all we ever saw where Leyland's can't think who built
> the bodies I know Ribble used to have some deckers with East Lancs
> bodies and most coaches where either Leyland's with Plaxton bodies or
> Bedfords, I am going back to before I even left school of course and
> left the industry when OMO became prevalent and STC started to gobble
> up nearly all the bus companies in the UK  .

OMO came in and you couldn't hack the job? So you go to your grave 
moaning about how much life would be with a clippie and a Setright?

Brian.

mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:29:03 +0100, Mark B  wrote:
> 
> 
>> With the Merger with Plaxton I wouldn't be surprised if the Primo 
>> doesn't become the Enviro100.
> Our local bus company J Fishwick & Sons have just bought two Primo's
> pride of the fleet they are and the staff speak highly of them .

I think you mean the Centros? The Primo is a tiny Hungarian Minibus 
produced in CKD and assembled at Scarborough (Though IIRC Plaxton have a 
fair stake in the Hungarian company), the Centro is a UK product, and 
IIRC Fishwicks have them on the VDL (DAF) SB200

>> Hope that made sense
> Rather complicated the bus industry these days Mark the 400 deckers
> that STG around here can't be on a Scania chassis then they all have
> rear windows .

So far its only been one batch of Scanias to Manchester and one batch to 
Oxford. The rest are on Dennis Trident chassis. Stagecoach tend to be 
conservative and order small batches at first, before deciding on bulk 
orders

Brian Robertson wrote:
> mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:39:44 +0100, "Ian D Henden" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> There was a lady bus driver on "What's My Line" with Gilbert 
>>> Harding.  She worked for Provincial at Hoeford in the '50s.
>>>
>>> And most companys used women drivers in the early '40s... not many 
>>> fit men around, you see...
>> There are not many women drivers about up here even now back in the
>> late eighties when I left Ribble we had four lesbian couples driving
>> and that was it no real women :)) .
> 
> Oh God, you want taking out and SHOOTING! You really are the lowest of 
> the low.
> 
> Brian.

No need to shoot him, Brian. Just open a window on a bus and, with a bit 
of luck, he'll spontaneously combust!

Cheers

Steve M