Dear Friends,

I have set up a petition about the ever rising fuel prices in the UK. 
Please add your name(s) and then send the link onto as many people as you 
can.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ukfuelcosts/signatures-1.html

Kind Regards.

Tim.

The Master wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> 
> I have set up a petition about the ever rising fuel prices in the UK. 
> Please add your name(s) and then send the link onto as many people as 
> you can.
> 
> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ukfuelcosts/signatures-1.html
> 
> Kind Regards.
> 
> Tim.

Are you a moron or a Conservative?

And is there a real difference?

Brian.

On Mon, 26 May 2008 21:20:31 +0100, Brian Robertson
<brianro@[nospam].com> wrote:

>The Master wrote:
>> Dear Friends,
>> 
>> I have set up a petition about the ever rising fuel prices in the UK. 
>> Please add your name(s) and then send the link onto as many people as 
>> you can.
>> 
>> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ukfuelcosts/signatures-1.html
>> 
>> Kind Regards.
>> 
>> Tim.
>

>And is there a real difference?

A big difference the present tennant of No 10 is and the one who is
waiting to take up the tenancy in two years time ISNT .

"The Master"  wrote in message 
news:kcidndOSprXZFKfVnZ2dnUVZ8qbinZ2d@bt.com...
> Dear Friends,
>
> I have set up a petition about the ever rising fuel prices in the UK. 
> Please add your name(s) and then send the link onto as many people as you 
> can.
>
> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ukfuelcosts/signatures-1.html
>
> Kind Regards.
>
> Tim.

Waste of time. Fossil fuels are a finite resource and are being consumed at 
an ever increasing rate. Whilst new reserves will be found for a few years, 
they will become increasingly difficult (& expensive) to exploit. The 
inevitable consequence is that, although prices may fluctuate, the overall 
trend will be increasing fuel prices to levels many times higher than 
existing prices. Get used to it - not much anyone can do about it. And don't 
say we can get oil / fuel from plants - there isn't enough good quality 
agricultural land to produce both food and fuel to meet world requirements. 
The only unknown is how many years it will take for fuel prices to reach 10 
or 100 times current levels.

Bevan

In news:1212268899.13859.0@proxy01.news.clara.net,
Bevan Price <meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom> typed, for some strange, unexplained 
reason:
: "The Master"  wrote in message
: news:kcidndOSprXZFKfVnZ2dnUVZ8qbinZ2d@bt.com...
: > Dear Friends,
: >
: > I have set up a petition about the ever rising fuel prices in the
: > UK. Please add your name(s) and then send the link onto as many
: > people as you can.
: >
: > http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ukfuelcosts/signatures-1.html
: >
: > Kind Regards.
: >
: > Tim.
:
: Waste of time. Fossil fuels are a finite resource and are being
: consumed at an ever increasing rate. Whilst new reserves will be
: found for a few years, they will become increasingly difficult (&
: expensive) to exploit. The inevitable consequence is that, although
: prices may fluctuate, the overall trend will be increasing fuel
: prices to levels many times higher than existing prices. Get used to
: it - not much anyone can do about it. And don't say we can get oil /
: fuel from plants - there isn't enough good quality agricultural land
: to produce both food and fuel to meet world requirements. The only
: unknown is how many years it will take for fuel prices to reach 10 or
: 100 times current levels.
:
: Bevan

Given that the government takes 80% or whatever it is of the pump price in 
tax, the price of crude oil has less to do with it than some people would 
like you to think.


Ivor

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 00:28:02 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:

>Given that the government takes 80% or whatever it is of the pump price in 
>tax, the price of crude oil has less to do with it than some people would 
>like you to think.

It's nothing like 80% any more - the rises have put paid to that.
ISTR it is now about 50%.

While the iniquitous VAT[1] is charged based on the price, the other
and main costs are, as many don't realise, set per litre, not per
pound cost.  This is why it has to keep increasing to maintain any
semblance of a percentage figure.

[1] VAT is as regressive a tax as it gets.  My view is that it should
be abolished and put on income tax instead.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In news:48426cb0.311075150@news.individual.net,
Neil Williams  typed, for some strange, 
unexplained reason:
: On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 00:28:02 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
: <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
:
: >Given that the government takes 80% or whatever it is of the pump
: >price in tax, the price of crude oil has less to do with it than
: >some people would like you to think.
:
: It's nothing like 80% any more - the rises have put paid to that.
: ISTR it is now about 50%.

Hmm, you could be right. Still too much, though.

: While the iniquitous VAT[1] is charged based on the price, the other
: and main costs are, as many don't realise, set per litre, not per
: pound cost.  This is why it has to keep increasing to maintain any
: semblance of a percentage figure.
:
: [1] VAT is as regressive a tax as it gets.  My view is that it should
: be abolished and put on income tax instead.

I'd settle for abolished. No need to put it anywhere, they get quite 
enough money out of us as it is.

Ivor

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 16:24:44 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:


>I'd settle for abolished. No need to put it anywhere, they get quite 
>enough money out of us as it is.

Scrap the car tax and put it all on fuel then we each pay for what we
use and nothing else you want to go 200 miles you pay for it  I want
to do 5 miles I pay for it also you will be causing more ware and tear
to the roads and blowing out more exhaust fumes than I so it would
only be right that you pay more Ivor .
Not that car tax bothers me in the least these days I get it for free
anyway .

In news:4vq5441knqokc3rff7v79tt6q3ihed40kt@4ax.com,
mymail@hotmail.com  typed, for some strange, 
unexplained reason:
: On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 16:24:44 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
: <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
:
:
: >I'd settle for abolished. No need to put it anywhere, they get quite
: >enough money out of us as it is.
:
: Scrap the car tax and put it all on fuel then we each pay for what we
: use and nothing else you want to go 200 miles you pay for it  I want
: to do 5 miles I pay for it also you will be causing more ware and tear
: to the roads and blowing out more exhaust fumes than I so it would
: only be right that you pay more Ivor .
: Not that car tax bothers me in the least these days I get it for free
: anyway .

No, no, Ron - you're missing the point - scrap the car tax, yes, but no 
more on fuel. Fuel is quite enough already, don't encourage them to make 
it even more expensive.

Ivor

wrote in message 
news:4vq5441knqokc3rff7v79tt6q3ihed40kt@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 16:24:44 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>I'd settle for abolished. No need to put it anywhere, they get quite
>>enough money out of us as it is.
>
> Scrap the car tax and put it all on fuel then we each pay for what we
> use and nothing else you want to go 200 miles you pay for it  I want
> to do 5 miles I pay for it also you will be causing more ware and tear
> to the roads and blowing out more exhaust fumes than I so it would
> only be right that you pay more Ivor .
> Not that car tax bothers me in the least these days I get it for free
> anyway .


Or scrap the cars & lorries (or most of them) - sooner or later, like it or 
not, (but maybe not in our lifetimes), most people will have to learn to 
live without cars, because fuel will need to be reserved for essential 
services only. Personal transport for most people will eventually need to 
change to doing most journeys by electrically powered buses, trams or 
trains.  (With local freight mainly by short haul battery powered lorries to 
/ from electrified railway terminals.)

Bevan

In news:1212357447.510.0@proxy00.news.clara.net,
Bevan Price <meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom> typed, for some strange, unexplained 
reason:

[snip]

: Or scrap the cars & lorries (or most of them) - sooner or later, like
: it or not, (but maybe not in our lifetimes), most people will have to
: learn to live without cars, because fuel will need to be reserved for
: essential services only. Personal transport for most people will
: eventually need to change to doing most journeys by electrically
: powered buses, trams or trains.  (With local freight mainly by short
: haul battery powered lorries to / from electrified railway terminals.)
:
: Bevan

In an ideal world, maybe. However we don't live in one and are unlikely to 
in the foreseeable future.

In the meantime, people need to travel when buses aren't running, to 
places they don't go. I for one have to travel 8 miles to work; by bus it 
takes an hour and three buses, by car 20-25 minutes at the heaviest of 
traffic times. I also sometimes finish at 1am when the last bus has long 
since stopped running. How do you suggest I get home..?

I also do some charity work at the weekends, this too is around 8-9 miles 
away and on a Sunday there just aren't any buses round here at all. None. 
Zilch. Zero.

Ironically, I work for a bus company..!


Ivor

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 21:19:07 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:


>No, no, Ron - you're missing the point - scrap the car tax, yes, but no 
>more on fuel. Fuel is quite enough already, don't encourage them to make 
>it even more expensive.

The country needs money to stay afloat and if they do not get it from
tax on commodities that we " don't" need than it will be got from what
we do need like food and clothing etc.
>Fuel is quite enough already, don't encourage them to make 
>it even more expensive.
You wouldn't think so by the tail back of cars on the M6 up here last
weekend or the cars entering and leaving Preston during the rush hour
when most of their owners could get out of their cars and catch a bus
to from work , and 50% of kids could walk to school every day instead
of parents acting has unpaid chauffeurs  .

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 23:58:33 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:


> I also sometimes finish at 1am when the last bus has long 
>since stopped running. How do you suggest I get home..?
Push bike maybe ! 
>I also do some charity work at the weekends, this too is around 8-9 miles 
>away and on a Sunday there just aren't any buses round here at all. None. 
>Zilch. Zero.
Then you don't do charity work do you Ivor simple really when you
think about it one must never forget  charity begins at home and if
you are throwing fuel into your car at the cost of it today to go
doing  charity work then you are not being very charitable to yourself
are you . 
One just cannot go using a car willynilly these days I have got a very
good reason to use my car everywhere I go but I won't sooner put up
with a bit of pain every day by walking and using the bus than filling
the coffers of the oil companies and the government .
I put £ 20.00 of fuel in the car at the beginning of May and the trip
meter rolled over onto 50 miles today has it happens .
You where on about time and inconvenience it takes you to go to work
by bus tomorrow I have to go to the next village a matter of three
miles maximum each way from here and a 20 minute drive by car round
trip .On the bus it will take me 20 minutes outward and around
40 return trip two 15 minute bus journeys and a ten minute walk
to the bus stop ( no buses in a straight line coming back unless I
hang around for nearly an hour ) .

In news:oib6449u5hij93utnduee53sbgn158naqn@4ax.com,
mymail@hotmail.co.uk  typed, for some strange, 
unexplained reason:
: On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 23:58:33 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
: <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
:
:
: > I also sometimes finish at 1am when the last bus has long
: >since stopped running. How do you suggest I get home..?
: Push bike maybe !

8 miles.  Right, that would mean I'd get home about 3am..! Don't think so 
somehow.

: >I also do some charity work at the weekends, this too is around 8-9
: >miles away and on a Sunday there just aren't any buses round here at
: >all. None. Zilch. Zero.
: Then you don't do charity work do you Ivor simple really when you
: think about it one must never forget  charity begins at home and if
: you are throwing fuel into your car at the cost of it today to go
: doing  charity work then you are not being very charitable to yourself
: are you .

I won't even dignify that one with an answer. There are some things which 
have to be done.

: One just cannot go using a car willynilly these days I have got a very
: good reason to use my car everywhere I go but I won't sooner put up
: with a bit of pain every day by walking and using the bus than filling
: the coffers of the oil companies and the government .
: I put £ 20.00 of fuel in the car at the beginning of May and the trip
: meter rolled over onto 50 miles today has it happens .
: You where on about time and inconvenience it takes you to go to work
: by bus tomorrow I have to go to the next village a matter of three
: miles maximum each way from here and a 20 minute drive by car round
: trip .On the bus it will take me 20 minutes outward and around
: 40 return trip two 15 minute bus journeys and a ten minute walk
: to the bus stop ( no buses in a straight line coming back unless I
: hang around for nearly an hour ) .

I don't see what a single word of that has to do with the fact that I have 
to go to work.

Ivor

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 08:42:57 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:


>8 miles.  Right, that would mean I'd get home about 3am..! Don't think so 
>somehow.

I have walked 4 miles into Preston for 04.45 starts and walked home
again after a late shifts finishes at 00.45 couldn't afford a car in
those days we didn't get the inflated pay that busmen get today .

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote in message 
news:6agnsuF37rnq0U1@mid.individual.net...
> In news:1212357447.510.0@proxy00.news.clara.net,
> Bevan Price <meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom> typed, for some strange, unexplained
> reason:
>
> [snip]
>
> : Or scrap the cars & lorries (or most of them) - sooner or later, like
> : it or not, (but maybe not in our lifetimes), most people will have to
> : learn to live without cars, because fuel will need to be reserved for
> : essential services only. Personal transport for most people will
> : eventually need to change to doing most journeys by electrically
> : powered buses, trams or trains.  (With local freight mainly by short
> : haul battery powered lorries to / from electrified railway terminals.)
> :
> : Bevan
>
> In an ideal world, maybe. However we don't live in one and are unlikely to
> in the foreseeable future.
>
> In the meantime, people need to travel when buses aren't running, to
> places they don't go. I for one have to travel 8 miles to work; by bus it
> takes an hour and three buses, by car 20-25 minutes at the heaviest of
> traffic times. I also sometimes finish at 1am when the last bus has long
> since stopped running. How do you suggest I get home..?
>
> I also do some charity work at the weekends, this too is around 8-9 miles
> away and on a Sunday there just aren't any buses round here at all. None.
> Zilch. Zero.
>
> Ironically, I work for a bus company..!
>
>
> Ivor


As I said - maybe not in OUR lifetimes. But in 50 or 100 years or so, most 
people will have no option but to learn to live without cars.
If public transport is unavailable, they may have to return to the situation 
where most people lived within walking distance of shops / 
workplace./schools. The building of supermarkets, large hospitals, schools, 
etc.on sites inaccessible by public transport will possibly come to be 
regarded as a mistake  Of course the rich fat cats will always pay 
themselves enough to let them buy fuel, even at (say) £50+ per litre

Bevan

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 20:40:57 +0100, "Bevan Price"
<meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom> wrote:


>As I said - maybe not in OUR lifetimes. But in 50 or 100 years or so, most 
>people will have no option but to learn to live without cars.
The time for people to learn to live without cars is NOW during the
1940-1955 period has I remember you needed to be very rich to own a
car . The working classes used working class transport I couldn't
afford a car when I first started on the buses as a conductor  in
August 1960 even didn't need one then I only lived five minutes walk
from the bus depot  ( BBMS ) . In 1963 when I moved to Ribble motors
I did need one but still could not afford one ,the four mile walk at
03:45 for early shifts and home at around 00:30 and later was not
funny at all but I did it and was never late .
Now after quite a few years of having a car thanks to Mr Brown I am
back on the buses once more as a passenger and the car stays at home
most days and I am quite enjoying being back to using buses I can tell
you.
If more people left their cars at home each day and used public
transport or push bikes I think the nations health would be very much
improved .