I seem to remember in my boyhood seeing buses called Albion Valiant.
What kind of buses were they and when were they produced?  I think I
saw them in Glasgow.

I also remember seeing a Leyland bus run by SMT of Edinburgh which had
a half-cab and a rear near side entrance for passengers with a sort of
folding door. The emergency door was at the front offside just behind
the driver's cab.  It was blue and had the letters SMT in very large
letters on both sides.  I think it may even have had a petrol engine.
I have a feeling that the address given for the Scottish Motor
Traction Company Limited on the side of the bus was 39 Fountainbridge,
Edinburgh.  Any idea what these buses were called and when they were
in service.  The one I remember was out of service and used as a
caravan.

I also remember MacBraynes' buses.  They were Bedfords with 6 cylinder
petrol engines and had slatted wooden seats which were apparently
built as "utility" vehicles built during WW2. The registration numbers
of the ones I remember were DUS 23 and DUS 24.  What was that type of
bus called?

A really early memory is of a MacBraynes petrol-engined bus with a
trailer at the back which, I think, made gas to be used instead of
scarce petrol.  How did these things work and have any been preserved?

MacBraynes also had a petrol engined Dodge bus and the driver opened
the sliding passenger door with a lever at his right hand.  This bus
took me to primary school and the driver used to issue tickets which
had two rows of pre-printed prices on them.  He used a machine which
took a section out of the ticket leaving the relevant fare visible on
the L-shaped part that was given to the passenger.  The fare from my
home to school was 4 old pence. One day, I got a nice new kind of
ticket produced from a newly introduced Setright machine.  When I got
off the bus and ran up to school, I could hear Bus Driver Donald
Cameron running after me and shouting but I ran faster as I thought I
had done something wrong and didn't want to face his wrath.  When he
caught me in the school yard, he was very out of breath and asked me
whether I still had my ticket.  I said I did but I wanted to keep it
as it was the first of the new style but he persuaded me to hand it
back to him as he had mistakenly made it out for 4UKP instead of four
pence which was probably the thick end of a week's wages for a driver
at that time.

-- 
Alasdair.
(MM 49876 if that means anything to anyone nowadays)

On 20 Dec, 01:47, Alasdair  wrote:
> I seem to remember in my boyhood seeing buses called Albion Valiant.
> What kind of buses were they and when were they produced?  I think I
> saw them in Glasgow.

Albion used the Valiant name three times: Early 1930s (models PV70,
71) Late 1940s(CX39) and late 1960s (VL3). The first two were half-cab
coach chassis, the other one was a rear-engined single deck with
tropical cooling. The latter was never sold in the UK. The first two,
if seen in Glasgow, were either on test, on delivery, or running for
local coach firms. Of the big operators in the Glasgow Area, only
Glasgow Corporation and Young, Paisley had large numbers of prewar
Albions, and Glasgow Corporation mainly used the Venturer in M80 and
CX19 forms and the closely-related CX25 single deck, although Young's
Albion fleet was more various.
Postwar, all Glasgows Albions were double-deck (Venturer CX19 and
CX37S) and Youngs were bought over by Western SMT who as a result
inherited an order for Venturers.
[Thanks to Adams &  Milligan, Albion of Scotstoun]

> I also remember seeing a Leyland bus run by SMT of Edinburgh which had
> a half-cab and a rear near side entrance for passengers with a sort of
> folding door. The emergency door was at the front offside just behind
> the driver's cab.  It was blue and had the letters SMT in very large
> letters on both sides.  I think it may even have had a petrol engine.
> I have a feeling that the address given for the Scottish Motor
> Traction Company Limited on the side of the bus was 39 Fountainbridge,
> Edinburgh.  Any idea what these buses were called and when they were
> in service.  The one I remember was out of service and used as a
> caravan.

Leyland Tiger (of marques TS1-5) with Alexander body, probably not
petrol as SMT were very early adopters of diesel (c1932, refitting all
their post 1927 Leylands at that time) that said the Leyland 8.6 litre
was a very smooth-running diesel.  The last prewar Tigers with SMT
left service in the 1960s.  The blue livery went in the early 1950s as
probably did the rear-entrance Tigers.  One SMT bus of a slightly
later (forward-entrance) type is under restoration at SVBM Lathalmond.
Central SMT stuck to a similar design of rear-entrance well into the
Underfloor-engined era, having Guy Arab UFs so fitted, there are
Central Guys and Leylands preserved with SVBM and GVVT Bridegeton.

> I also remember MacBraynes' buses.  They were Bedfords with 6 cylinder
> petrol engines and had slatted wooden seats which were apparently
> built as "utility" vehicles built during WW2. The registration numbers
> of the ones I remember were DUS 23 and DUS 24.  What was that type of
> bus called?

Bedford OWB,  I don't have "MacBraynes for the Highlands"  to hand but
ISTR that the utility 32-seat bodies for these, and most allocated to
Scotland,  were built by SMT in Edinburgh.

> A really early memory is of a MacBraynes petrol-engined bus with a
> trailer at the back which, I think, made gas to be used instead of
> scarce petrol.  How did these things work and have any been preserved?

AFAIK no producer-gas trailer has been preserved, but a number of
petrol engined buses of prewar vintage that ran on gas have been. An
AEC Regal at Cobham Bus Museum for example.

Basically coal was burned in a partial vacuum to produce coal-gas,
which was used to drive the bus instead of petrol. Classic Bus 91 (Oct-
Nov 2007) had a detailed article about the process, by David Cox, once
Chief Engineer of Northern General Transport.

> MacBraynes also had a petrol engined Dodge bus and the driver opened
> the sliding passenger door with a lever at his right hand.  This bus
> took me to primary school and the driver used to issue tickets which
> had two rows of pre-printed prices on them.  He used a machine which
> took a section out of the ticket leaving the relevant fare visible on
> the L-shaped part that was given to the passenger.  The fare from my
> home to school was 4 old pence. One day, I got a nice new kind of
> ticket produced from a newly introduced Setright machine.  When I got
> off the bus and ran up to school, I could hear Bus Driver Donald
> Cameron running after me and shouting but I ran faster as I thought I
> had done something wrong and didn't want to face his wrath.  When he
> caught me in the school yard, he was very out of breath and asked me
> whether I still had my ticket.  I said I did but I wanted to keep it
> as it was the first of the new style but he persuaded me to hand it
> back to him as he had mistakenly made it out for 4UKP instead of four
> pence which was probably the thick end of a week's wages for a driver
> at that time.

Oh Dear!  I can understand why MacBraynes adopted the Setright, they
ran some of the longest routes in the UK and must have had among the
widest ranges of fares of any operator.

> --
> Alasdair.
> (MM 49876 if that means anything to anyone nowadays)

Your Driver Number?

Hope I've helped your reminiscences

Stephen Allcroft
Cardross
Scotland

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:24:14 -0800 (PST), Stephen Allcroft
 wrote:

>Bedford OWB,  I don't have "MacBraynes for the Highlands"  to hand but
>ISTR that the utility 32-seat bodies for these, and most allocated to
>Scotland,  were built by SMT in Edinburgh.

I think the ones I had in mind were 20 or 24 seaters.

-- 
Alasdair.

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:24:14 -0800 (PST), Stephen Allcroft
 wrote:

>Your Driver Number?

Yes, and I still have the badge and my licence is actually still
current although I don't actually get the chance to drive buses these
days!

-- 
Alasdair.

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:24:14 -0800 (PST), Stephen Allcroft
 wrote:

>Stephen Allcroft
>Cardross
>Scotland

Ah! Cardross.  I used to catch the number 25 Bluebird service from
Glasgow to Oban.  On one occasion, the bus was unable to negotiate
Whistlefield Brae and all the passengers had to get out and push.  I
think the reason was snow on the road.

The buses on the 25 service were, I think, narrower than normal in
order to negotiate the sharp bends on the Loch Lomond road.

I used to like to sit in the near side front seat to see the road
ahead but a somewhat well built conductress often stood there with one
foot down the door step well and the other on the bus floor.  When I
complained, she replied "Ye're payin' fur a seat, sonny, nae for a
view".

-- 
Alasdair.

On 27 Dec, 23:39, Alasdair  wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:24:14 -0800 (PST), Stephen Allcroft
>
>  wrote:
> >Bedford OWB,  I don't have "MacBraynes for the Highlands"  to hand but
> >ISTR that the utility 32-seat bodies for these, and most allocated to
> >Scotland,  were built by SMT in Edinburgh.
>
> I think the ones I had in mind were 20 or 24 seaters.
>
> --
> Alasdair.

I'll get back to you on this once I've gone home and looked at my copy
of "MacBraynes For The Highlands", They could well have been
downseated from the standard layout for mail carrying.

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:24:14 -0800 (PST), Stephen Allcroft
 wrote:

>AFAIK no producer-gas trailer has been preserved, but a number of
>petrol engined buses of prewar vintage that ran on gas have been. An
>AEC Regal at Cobham Bus Museum for example.
>
>Basically coal was burned in a partial vacuum to produce coal-gas,
>which was used to drive the bus instead of petrol. Classic Bus 91 (Oct-
>Nov 2007) had a detailed article about the process, by David Cox, once
>Chief Engineer of Northern General Transport.

I have a feeling that one PG trailer exists at the LT Museum at Acton,
but I could be wrong. Usually they would run on coke, and the
induction of the engine would draw air through the firebed, generating
the carbon monoxide fuel. Stationary producer gas plant would normally
have steam injection into the air, to keep the fire bed temperature
down, and prevent clinker formation. I don't think that this feature
was used on the trailers. Running on coal would probably create
problems with the tar in the gas, clogging up the pipes and the plugs.
Charcoal and anthracite would have been OK.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

"Terry Harper"  wrote in message 
news:r22bn3hil35v5s9g49cord7mk2lvnoshp4@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:24:14 -0800 (PST), Stephen Allcroft
>  wrote:
>
>>AFAIK no producer-gas trailer has been preserved, but a number of
>>petrol engined buses of prewar vintage that ran on gas have been. An
>>AEC Regal at Cobham Bus Museum for example.
>>
>>Basically coal was burned in a partial vacuum to produce coal-gas,
>>which was used to drive the bus instead of petrol. Classic Bus 91 (Oct-
>>Nov 2007) had a detailed article about the process, by David Cox, once
>>Chief Engineer of Northern General Transport.
>
> I have a feeling that one PG trailer exists at the LT Museum at Acton,
> but I could be wrong. Usually they would run on coke, and the
> induction of the engine would draw air through the firebed, generating
> the carbon monoxide fuel. Stationary producer gas plant would normally
> have steam injection into the air, to keep the fire bed temperature
> down, and prevent clinker formation. I don't think that this feature
> was used on the trailers. Running on coal would probably create
> problems with the tar in the gas, clogging up the pipes and the plugs.
> Charcoal and anthracite would have been OK.
> -- 

But isn't coke actually coal with the gas already extracted????? which is 
why gas companies used to sell it?? ( obviously there was something residual 
left i it which would burn, but, AFAIR, coke had to be at a high temperature 
to burn anyway)

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 23:50:29 +0000, Alasdair 
wrote:


>Ah! Cardross.  I used to catch the number 25 Bluebird service from
>Glasgow to Oban. 
Hi Alasdair
Was Blubird around in the early sixties the name rings a bell and I
used to drive the night service from Preston to Glasgow three times a
week and was wondering if I had seen them in Glasgow back then .
> When I
>complained, she replied "Ye're payin' fur a seat, sonny, nae for a
>view".
Quite so Alasdair :)))) my favorite place to stand when I had a green
badge also and I am not exactly small :))))))) .

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:30:17 GMT, mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:

>Hi Alasdair
>Was Blubird around in the early sixties the name rings a bell and I
>used to drive the night service from Preston to Glasgow three times a
>week and was wondering if I had seen them in Glasgow back then .

Bluebird was the trade mark or logo of W. Alexander and Sons Ltd.,
Brown Street, Camelon, Falkirk who ran buses and coaches throughout
central Scotland.  They operated out of Killermont Street and Buchanan
Street Bus Stations in Glasgow.

-- 
Alasdair.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:46:11 +0000, Alasdair 
wrote:

>On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:30:17 GMT, mymail@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>
>>Hi Alasdair
>>Was Blubird around in the early sixties the name rings a bell and I
>>used to drive the night service from Preston to Glasgow three times a
>>week and was wondering if I had seen them in Glasgow back then .
>
>Bluebird was the trade mark or logo of W. Alexander and Sons Ltd.,
>Brown Street, Camelon, Falkirk who ran buses and coaches throughout
>central Scotland.  They operated out of Killermont Street and Buchanan
>Street Bus Stations in Glasgow.
Of course we used to drop of across the road from Buchanan St rail
station around 7 am which was where I must have seen them ,then my
conductor and I would walk down to the bus station and grab a brew and
sausage barmcake before going to fill up then of to our digs for
brakefast and bed .  
Those where the days wish I could have them back hell it doesn't seem
like 40 odd years ago .

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 07:51:32 GMT, "Ian D Henden" 
wrote:

>But isn't coke actually coal with the gas already extracted????? which is 
>why gas companies used to sell it?? ( obviously there was something residual 
>left i it which would burn, but, AFAIR, coke had to be at a high temperature 
>to burn anyway)

When coal is carbonised, the volatile matter is effectively distilled
off. This includes the gases and also a lot of condensible material,
which is separated out as coal tar and other substances like
naphthalene. The coke residue can then be used for gas-making, either
in a producer gas or a water gas plant. This involves converting the
carbon to carbon monoxide by air-blowing in the producer, or to carbon
dioxide and hydrogen, by stream blowing in the water gas plant.

To keep the temperature up in the water gas plant, they usually
operate on a cyclic process, with an air-blown (exothermic) period
followed by a steam-blown (endothermic) period. In the producer, the
process is continuous, and a small amount of steam is used with the
air to keep the temperature of the fire bed down.

You can use coal in a producer, and the CV of the gas (about 160-180
Btu/SCF) is higher than using coke (about 120 Btu/SCF), but the gas is
very dirty and is best suited for direct combustion. In an internal
combustion engine, it would clog up the pipe leading to the engine
very quickly.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

On 30 Dec 2007, 23:39, Terry Harper 
wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 07:51:32 GMT, "Ian D Henden" 
> wrote:
>
> >But isn't coke actually coal with the gas already extracted????? which is
> >why gas companies used to sell it?? ( obviously there was something residual
> >left i it which would burn, but, AFAIR, coke had to be at a high temperature
> >to burn anyway)
>
> When coal is carbonised, the volatile matter is effectively distilled
> off. This includes the gases and also a lot of condensible material,
> which is separated out as coal tar and other substances like
> naphthalene. The coke residue can then be used for gas-making, either
> in a producer gas or a water gas plant. This involves converting the
> carbon to carbon monoxide by air-blowing in the producer, or to carbon
> dioxide and hydrogen, by stream blowing in the water gas plant.
>
> To keep the temperature up in the water gas plant, they usually
> operate on a cyclic process, with an air-blown (exothermic) period
> followed by a steam-blown (endothermic) period. In the producer, the
> process is continuous, and a small amount of steam is used with the
> air to keep the temperature of the fire bed down.
>
> You can use coal in a producer, and the CV of the gas (about 160-180
> Btu/SCF) is higher than using coke (about 120 Btu/SCF), but the gas is
> very dirty and is best suited for direct combustion. In an internal
> combustion engine, it would clog up the pipe leading to the engine
> very quickly.
> --
> Terry Harper
> Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Societyhttp://www.omnibussoc.org

This is very informative, thanks terry for all your posts on this
subject.

Stephen Allcroft
Cardross
Scotland

On 28 Dec 2007, 16:18, Stephen Allcroft 
wrote:
> On 27 Dec, 23:39, Alasdair  wrote:
> > I think the ones I had in mind were 20 or 24 seaters.
>
> > --
> > Alasdair.
>
> I'll get back to you on this once I've gone home and looked at my copy
> of "MacBraynes For The Highlands", They could well have been
> downseated from the standard layout for mail carrying.

Dear Alasdair,

I have had the time at home to check the information on the Albion
Valiants and the MacBrayne vehicles you asked about.

It turns out that MacBrayne only had one batch of utility-bus
Bedfords, these were in total DUS22-5 fleet numbers 22-5 (the only
instance in MacBrayne's entire history of fleet and registration
numbers matching) delivered in 1943, first licensed 10/43, all 4
carrying Duple (not SMT) UB32F bodies, all 4 were down seated to B28F
c 1947/8. 22 scrapped 5/58, 23 converted to Lorry L1 7/52 sold to
MacLean North Uist 4/61. 24 scrapped 9/56. 25 scrapped 7/58.

The Dodges were DGD395/6 originally numbered 124/5 Dodge SBF (MFTH
mistakenly gives 84 as the model type but other sources give SBF for
this model) Duple C26F both first licensed 6/40 124 renumbered 33
1943, 125 renumbered 50 1944 both sold 11/50.

Note that the utility bodied OWBs were not converted to mail buses but
the following DYS369/70 numbered 55/6 had peacetime Duple Mk 2 bodies,
initially to mail carrying B20FM layout, later both were converted to
all-seated.

Albion built the Valiant PV70 from 1931-4 and the PV71 1934-5 both had
Albion 6-cylinder OHV petrol engines as standard but with optional
Gardner and Albion diesels and the PV70 also offered the option of a
Beardmore diesel, these were unsuccessful and discontinued in the life
of this model.

The Valiant CX39 was a 1948-50 model-closer to the CX37 Venturer than
the single deck CX13 Valkyrie it replaced.  It was capable of 60mph
when the speed limit was 30. Home Market CX39s had a 9.9 litre Albion
direct injection diesel, but the South African Railways had their 50
CX39LW Valiants with 10.5 litre 150bhp petrol engines.

It does not surprise me that you were unsure as to the existence of
this model, to quote Adams & Milligan

"Like the Viking [CX41] the Valiant was one of those rare vehicles in
the motor industry which was given a model name, but which did not
display that name."

Details from: "MacBraynes for the Highlands" by the Albion Vehicle
Preservation Trust (compiled Iain Macfarlane) Sheffield 1977 ISBN 0
902844 40 7;
'Albion of Scotstoun' Roy Adams & Stuart Milligan Glasgow 2001;
And 'Duple 70 years of Coachbuilding' AA Townsin, Glossop 1999.

Note that two Albion CX39 Valiants and one PV70 survive. One of the
CX39s (FVA854) is owned by the AVPT, authors of the MacBrayne booklet,
and the other is a South Yorkshire Road Transport example rebodied as
a double decker in the 1950s.



Stephen Allcroft
Cardross
Scotland

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 06:21:41 -0800 (PST), Stephen Allcroft
 wrote:

>Details from: "MacBraynes for the Highlands" by the Albion Vehicle
>Preservation Trust (compiled Iain Macfarlane) Sheffield 1977 ISBN 0
>902844 40 7;
>'Albion of Scotstoun' Roy Adams & Stuart Milligan Glasgow 2001;
>And 'Duple 70 years of Coachbuilding' AA Townsin, Glossop 1999.
>
>Note that two Albion CX39 Valiants and one PV70 survive. One of the
>CX39s (FVA854) is owned by the AVPT, authors of the MacBrayne booklet,
>and the other is a South Yorkshire Road Transport example rebodied as
>a double decker in the 1950s.

Another information source is the PSV Circle publication CXB392,
Chassis List, Albion Motors Ltd, Single-deck passenger models
1931-1952 (excluding Victor FT3, FT39 series).

It lists all the Valiants in series PV70, PV71, PV72 and CX39. It does
not look as if any of the PV72 (normal control) model were built, as
only PV71s (forward control) are listed.

I had the pleasure of many trips on CX39s, used by Red & White on
their long-distance Associated Motorways services. One is shown as
C1749 (formerly Liberty Motors 2, HAX652) in a link from
http://www.btinternet.com/~terry.harper/buses.htm
Like many of Red & White's Albion single-deckers, it had an overdrive
operated through an auxiliary gearbox with its own lever.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:39:20 +0000, Terry Harper
 wrote:

>(excluding Victor FT3, FT39 series)

Was not the Albion Victor a lorry?  The FT3 was, if I remember aright,
a 6 cylinder petrol lorry which superseded the 4 cylinder KL127.  

I once owned an Albion lorry, a KS127, the short wheelbase version of
the KL127.  It had an Albion 4-cyl side-valve petrol engine of of 5.5
inch stroke and 3.25 inch bore (if I remember correctly).  The
Registration Number was BUS 387 and the chassis number 37322L.  It had
no electric starter and the only way to start it was using the
starting handle.

The lorry was sold new as a 4000 gallon aluminium tanker to the Clyde
Oil Extraction Company in May, I think, 1938.

-- 
Alasdair.

On 4 Jan, 00:34, Alasdair  wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:39:20 퍍, Terry Harper
>
>  wrote:
> >(excluding Victor FT3, FT39 series)
>
> Was not the Albion Victor a lorry?  The FT3 was, if I remember aright,
> a 6 cylinder petrol lorry which superseded the 4 cylinder KL127.  
>
> I once owned an Albion lorry, a KS127, the short wheelbase version of
> the KL127.  It had an Albion 4-cyl side-valve petrol engine of of 5.5
> inch stroke and 3.25 inch bore (if I remember correctly).  The
> Registration Number was BUS 387 and the chassis number 37322L.  It had
> no electric starter and the only way to start it was using the
> starting handle.
>
> The lorry was sold new as a 4000 gallon aluminium tanker to the Clyde
> Oil Extraction Company in May, I think, 1938.
>
> --
> Alasdair.

The FT3AB was the petrol-powered "bus" Victor, the FT39 the Diesel,
there was  an underfloor-engined Victor was also planned as early as
1948 (FT33)

On 4 Jan, 15:55, Stephen Allcroft  wrote:
> On 4 Jan, 00:34, Alasdair  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:39:20 퍍, Terry Harper
>
> >  wrote:
> > >(excluding Victor FT3, FT39 series)
>
> > Was not the Albion Victor a lorry?  The FT3 was, if I remember aright,> > a 6 cylinder petrol lorry which superseded the 4 cylinder KL127.  
>
> > I once owned an Albion lorry, a KS127, the short wheelbase version of
> > the KL127.  It had an Albion 4-cyl side-valve petrol engine of of 5.5
> > inch stroke and 3.25 inch bore (if I remember correctly).  The
> > Registration Number was BUS 387 and the chassis number 37322L.  It had> > no electric starter and the only way to start it was using the
> > starting handle.
>
> > The lorry was sold new as a 4000 gallon aluminium tanker to the Clyde
> > Oil Extraction Company in May, I think, 1938.
>
> > --
> > Alasdair.
...
> The FT3AB was the petrol-powered Victor bus, the FT39 the Diesel.
> there was  an underfloor-engined Victor was also planned as early as
> 1948 (FT33)....

Sorry, cut-off by Dumbarton Library.  The FT3 lorry was not named,
other FT lorries were Reivers, Clydesdales, Chieftains etc. The only
'Victors' designed as HGVs were the later VT19 and VT19(HD) designed
for the Furniture Removal market.
Albion practice was to use V names for buses and C names for
Commercials, but this changed under Leyland. The planned FT33 UFE bus
could have stolen a march on Leyland & AEC had it gone ahead,
especially if Northern General had have heard of it, as they were
crying out for lightweight UFE chassis and in the end rebuilt front-
engined half cabs to 30ft, rather than take "Grossly Overweight" Royal
Tigers or Regal IVs.

(CF Adams & Milligan, op cit and RL Kell's Glory Days-Northern
General)

Stephen Allcroft
Cardross
Scotland

"Terry Harper"  wrote in message 
news:9gagn3hkv9bcrrroagvrqa1se1i6aasovb@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 07:51:32 GMT, "Ian D Henden" 
> wrote:
>
>>But isn't coke actually coal with the gas already extracted????? which is
>>why gas companies used to sell it?? ( obviously there was something 
>>residual
>>left i it which would burn, but, AFAIR, coke had to be at a high 
>>temperature
>>to burn anyway)
>
> When coal is carbonised, the volatile matter is effectively distilled
> off. This includes the gases and also a lot of condensible material,
> which is separated out as coal tar and other substances like
> naphthalene. The coke residue can then be used for gas-making, either
> in a producer gas or a water gas plant. This involves converting the
> carbon to carbon monoxide by air-blowing in the producer, or to carbon
> dioxide and hydrogen, by stream blowing in the water gas plant.
>
> To keep the temperature up in the water gas plant, they usually
> operate on a cyclic process, with an air-blown (exothermic) period
> followed by a steam-blown (endothermic) period. In the producer, the
> process is continuous, and a small amount of steam is used with the
> air to keep the temperature of the fire bed down.
>
> You can use coal in a producer, and the CV of the gas (about 160-180
> Btu/SCF) is higher than using coke (about 120 Btu/SCF), but the gas is
> very dirty and is best suited for direct combustion. In an internal
> combustion engine, it would clog up the pipe leading to the engine
> very quickly.

Thanks for that. As I now see it, coke is half-burnt coal.... I think.
> -- 
> Terry Harper
> Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
> http://www.omnibussoc.org

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:24:52 GMT, "Ian D Henden" 
wrote:

>Thanks for that. As I now see it, coke is half-burnt coal.... I think.

Not quite. It's not burnt at all. It is the residue left after all the
volatile material has been distilled off. Effectively a carbon
skeleton plus the ash.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org