Including sneak preview of Lothian Buses new Volvos

http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net

Not crossposted, your replies will only appear in this newsgroup.

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Apologies for the search...The page is being constantly updated.
Is it possible to index them on fotopic?

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach several
times a fifteen hour round trip journey that coach was so comfortable
I could have gone another 12 hours without getting off . The operator
was a firm called Top Balcony based in Kidderminster they stopped
running the service after we got held up at the tunnel entrance in
Calais for five hours due to HM customs being bloody minded . 

>   For example of the 
>latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
>others), 

Our village bus operator when I was a kid was running two "Guys" with
wooden seats up and down.

>"Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
>which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
>behind a grille.

Our local toilets where of this type until the council decided to tart
the toilet block up and afterwards instead of it being open 24/7 it is
now locked up at 4.30 every weekday and all weekend .

>  But I've yet 
>to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
>service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
>know different.......

Our local operators around here J Fishwick and sons and Stagecoach
hardly run deckers these days they are for the main single deckers and
I must say I have not seen much damage caused to the singles I have
traveled on but I do not travel all that often by bus these days .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach several
times a fifteen hour round trip journey that coach was so comfortable
I could have gone another 12 hours without getting off . The operator
was a firm called Top Balcony based in Kidderminster they stopped
running the service after we got held up at the tunnel entrance in
Calais for five hours due to HM customs being bloody minded . 

>   For example of the 
>latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
>others), 

Our village bus operator when I was a kid was running two "Guys" with
wooden seats up and down.

>"Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
>which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
>behind a grille.

Our local toilets where of this type until the council decided to tart
the toilet block up and afterwards instead of it being open 24/7 it is
now locked up at 4.30 every weekday and all weekend .

>  But I've yet 
>to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
>service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
>know different.......

Our local operators around here J Fishwick and sons and Stagecoach
hardly run deckers these days they are for the main single deckers and
I must say I have not seen much damage caused to the singles I have
traveled on but I do not travel all that often by bus these days .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach several
times a fifteen hour round trip journey that coach was so comfortable
I could have gone another 12 hours without getting off . The operator
was a firm called Top Balcony based in Kidderminster they stopped
running the service after we got held up at the tunnel entrance in
Calais for five hours due to HM customs being bloody minded . 

>   For example of the 
>latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
>others), 

Our village bus operator when I was a kid was running two "Guys" with
wooden seats up and down.

>"Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
>which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
>behind a grille.

Our local toilets where of this type until the council decided to tart
the toilet block up and afterwards instead of it being open 24/7 it is
now locked up at 4.30 every weekday and all weekend .

>  But I've yet 
>to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
>service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
>know different.......

Our local operators around here J Fishwick and sons and Stagecoach
hardly run deckers these days they are for the main single deckers and
I must say I have not seen much damage caused to the singles I have
traveled on but I do not travel all that often by bus these days .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach several
times a fifteen hour round trip journey that coach was so comfortable
I could have gone another 12 hours without getting off . The operator
was a firm called Top Balcony based in Kidderminster they stopped
running the service after we got held up at the tunnel entrance in
Calais for five hours due to HM customs being bloody minded . 

>   For example of the 
>latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
>others), 

Our village bus operator when I was a kid was running two "Guys" with
wooden seats up and down.

>"Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
>which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
>behind a grille.

Our local toilets where of this type until the council decided to tart
the toilet block up and afterwards instead of it being open 24/7 it is
now locked up at 4.30 every weekday and all weekend .

>  But I've yet 
>to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
>service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
>know different.......

Our local operators around here J Fishwick and sons and Stagecoach
hardly run deckers these days they are for the main single deckers and
I must say I have not seen much damage caused to the singles I have
traveled on but I do not travel all that often by bus these days .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach several
times a fifteen hour round trip journey that coach was so comfortable
I could have gone another 12 hours without getting off . The operator
was a firm called Top Balcony based in Kidderminster they stopped
running the service after we got held up at the tunnel entrance in
Calais for five hours due to HM customs being bloody minded . 

>   For example of the 
>latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
>others), 

Our village bus operator when I was a kid was running two "Guys" with
wooden seats up and down.

>"Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
>which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
>behind a grille.

Our local toilets where of this type until the council decided to tart
the toilet block up and afterwards instead of it being open 24/7 it is
now locked up at 4.30 every weekday and all weekend .

>  But I've yet 
>to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
>service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
>know different.......

Our local operators around here J Fishwick and sons and Stagecoach
hardly run deckers these days they are for the main single deckers and
I must say I have not seen much damage caused to the singles I have
traveled on but I do not travel all that often by bus these days .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach several
times a fifteen hour round trip journey that coach was so comfortable
I could have gone another 12 hours without getting off . The operator
was a firm called Top Balcony based in Kidderminster they stopped
running the service after we got held up at the tunnel entrance in
Calais for five hours due to HM customs being bloody minded . 

>   For example of the 
>latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
>others), 

Our village bus operator when I was a kid was running two "Guys" with
wooden seats up and down.

>"Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
>which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
>behind a grille.

Our local toilets where of this type until the council decided to tart
the toilet block up and afterwards instead of it being open 24/7 it is
now locked up at 4.30 every weekday and all weekend .

>  But I've yet 
>to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
>service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
>know different.......

Our local operators around here J Fishwick and sons and Stagecoach
hardly run deckers these days they are for the main single deckers and
I must say I have not seen much damage caused to the singles I have
traveled on but I do not travel all that often by bus these days .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach several
times a fifteen hour round trip journey that coach was so comfortable
I could have gone another 12 hours without getting off . The operator
was a firm called Top Balcony based in Kidderminster they stopped
running the service after we got held up at the tunnel entrance in
Calais for five hours due to HM customs being bloody minded . 

>   For example of the 
>latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
>others), 

Our village bus operator when I was a kid was running two "Guys" with
wooden seats up and down.

>"Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
>which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
>behind a grille.

Our local toilets where of this type until the council decided to tart
the toilet block up and afterwards instead of it being open 24/7 it is
now locked up at 4.30 every weekday and all weekend .

>  But I've yet 
>to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
>service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
>know different.......

Our local operators around here J Fishwick and sons and Stagecoach
hardly run deckers these days they are for the main single deckers and
I must say I have not seen much damage caused to the singles I have
traveled on but I do not travel all that often by bus these days .

Not crossposted, your replies will only appear in this newsgroup.
> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .

Don't forget the cheeky Clippies! :-)

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 08:08:55 GMT, Joe Curry
 wrote:

>Not crossposted, your replies will only appear in this newsgroup.
>> pity we didn't have them in the early
>>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>>what was going on ! .
>
>Don't forget the cheeky Clippies! :-)

Never had any time for them when I was driving most seemed to be very
busy chatting up the passengers instead of ringing the bell for my
liking .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach several
times a fifteen hour round trip journey that coach was so comfortable
I could have gone another 12 hours without getting off . The operator
was a firm called Top Balcony based in Kidderminster they stopped
running the service after we got held up at the tunnel entrance in
Calais for five hours due to HM customs being bloody minded . 

>   For example of the 
>latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
>others), 

Our village bus operator when I was a kid was running two "Guys" with
wooden seats up and down.

>"Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
>which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
>behind a grille.

Our local toilets where of this type until the council decided to tart
the toilet block up and afterwards instead of it being open 24/7 it is
now locked up at 4.30 every weekday and all weekend .

>  But I've yet 
>to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
>service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
>know different.......

Our local operators around here J Fishwick and sons and Stagecoach
hardly run deckers these days they are for the main single deckers and
I must say I have not seen much damage caused to the singles I have
traveled on but I do not travel all that often by bus these days .

Not crossposted, your replies will only appear in this newsgroup.
> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .

Don't forget the cheeky Clippies! :-)

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 08:08:55 GMT, Joe Curry
 wrote:

>Not crossposted, your replies will only appear in this newsgroup.
>> pity we didn't have them in the early
>>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>>what was going on ! .
>
>Don't forget the cheeky Clippies! :-)

Never had any time for them when I was driving most seemed to be very
busy chatting up the passengers instead of ringing the bell for my
liking .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach several
times a fifteen hour round trip journey that coach was so comfortable
I could have gone another 12 hours without getting off . The operator
was a firm called Top Balcony based in Kidderminster they stopped
running the service after we got held up at the tunnel entrance in
Calais for five hours due to HM customs being bloody minded . 

>   For example of the 
>latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
>others), 

Our village bus operator when I was a kid was running two "Guys" with
wooden seats up and down.

>"Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
>which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
>behind a grille.

Our local toilets where of this type until the council decided to tart
the toilet block up and afterwards instead of it being open 24/7 it is
now locked up at 4.30 every weekday and all weekend .

>  But I've yet 
>to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
>service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
>know different.......

Our local operators around here J Fishwick and sons and Stagecoach
hardly run deckers these days they are for the main single deckers and
I must say I have not seen much damage caused to the singles I have
traveled on but I do not travel all that often by bus these days .

Not crossposted, your replies will only appear in this newsgroup.
> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .

Don't forget the cheeky Clippies! :-)

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 08:08:55 GMT, Joe Curry
 wrote:

>Not crossposted, your replies will only appear in this newsgroup.
>> pity we didn't have them in the early
>>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>>what was going on ! .
>
>Don't forget the cheeky Clippies! :-)

Never had any time for them when I was driving most seemed to be very
busy chatting up the passengers instead of ringing the bell for my
liking .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach several
times a fifteen hour round trip journey that coach was so comfortable
I could have gone another 12 hours without getting off . The operator
was a firm called Top Balcony based in Kidderminster they stopped
running the service after we got held up at the tunnel entrance in
Calais for five hours due to HM customs being bloody minded . 

>   For example of the 
>latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
>others), 

Our village bus operator when I was a kid was running two "Guys" with
wooden seats up and down.

>"Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
>which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
>behind a grille.

Our local toilets where of this type until the council decided to tart
the toilet block up and afterwards instead of it being open 24/7 it is
now locked up at 4.30 every weekday and all weekend .

>  But I've yet 
>to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
>service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
>know different.......

Our local operators around here J Fishwick and sons and Stagecoach
hardly run deckers these days they are for the main single deckers and
I must say I have not seen much damage caused to the singles I have
traveled on but I do not travel all that often by bus these days .

Not crossposted, your replies will only appear in this newsgroup.
> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .

Don't forget the cheeky Clippies! :-)

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 08:08:55 GMT, Joe Curry
 wrote:

>Not crossposted, your replies will only appear in this newsgroup.
>> pity we didn't have them in the early
>>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>>what was going on ! .
>
>Don't forget the cheeky Clippies! :-)

Never had any time for them when I was driving most seemed to be very
busy chatting up the passengers instead of ringing the bell for my
liking .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach several
times a fifteen hour round trip journey that coach was so comfortable
I could have gone another 12 hours without getting off . The operator
was a firm called Top Balcony based in Kidderminster they stopped
running the service after we got held up at the tunnel entrance in
Calais for five hours due to HM customs being bloody minded . 

>   For example of the 
>latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
>others), 

Our village bus operator when I was a kid was running two "Guys" with
wooden seats up and down.

>"Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
>which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
>behind a grille.

Our local toilets where of this type until the council decided to tart
the toilet block up and afterwards instead of it being open 24/7 it is
now locked up at 4.30 every weekday and all weekend .

>  But I've yet 
>to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
>service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
>know different.......

Our local operators around here J Fishwick and sons and Stagecoach
hardly run deckers these days they are for the main single deckers and
I must say I have not seen much damage caused to the singles I have
traveled on but I do not travel all that often by bus these days .

Not crossposted, your replies will only appear in this newsgroup.
> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .

Don't forget the cheeky Clippies! :-)

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 08:08:55 GMT, Joe Curry
 wrote:

>Not crossposted, your replies will only appear in this newsgroup.
>> pity we didn't have them in the early
>>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>>what was going on ! .
>
>Don't forget the cheeky Clippies! :-)

Never had any time for them when I was driving most seemed to be very
busy chatting up the passengers instead of ringing the bell for my
liking .

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
 wrote:

>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>them! 

Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to 
>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find 
>>them! 
>
>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.

I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
passengers to travel in , pity we didn't have them in the early
sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
what was going on ! .

In message , 
mymail@hotmail.com writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:08:33 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:24:32 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Are these the new Volvos you refer to
>>>http://scotlandbuses.fotopic.net/c1222248_646.html - took a while to find
>>>them!
>>
>>Nice kit, especially the idea of an almost full blind on the back.
>
>I agree but I wonder how long it will be before some little B's knife
>the seats and practice their art work on the interior walls ?.
>These vehicles are of much to high quality for the majority of todays
>passengers to travel in ,
There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
more likely to respect it.

> pity we didn't have them in the early
>sixties though when we had conductors and inspectors around to watch
>what was going on ! .
The seventies was really a period when things became either more and 
more vandal-proof or (depending on your point of view) we pre-vandalised 
them so that there was nothing left to damage.   For example of the 
latter, see hard seats at the back upstairs (eg WMPTE Volvo Ailsas and 
others), "Oakham" telephone kiosks or those dreadful public toilets 
which are almost entirely made of stainless steel with blue lighting 
behind a grille.

I have seen quality stuff damaged (the wonderful Bull sculpture in 
Birmingham's Bull Ring has suffered twice, for example.   But I've yet 
to see this done with many of the newer high-end buses now entering 
service. Unless of course (as they used to say on "That's Life"( you 
know different.......

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
news:50uDEIUEohvGFwPF@bluebadge.demon.co.uk

[snip]

: : There is a theory - for which I have some time - that
: : if you present passengers with a clean, today and high
: : quality environment, they are more likely to respect it.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to apply in Birmingham. Last time we had new 
buses at Acocks Green when I was there the little <insert expletive to 
describe lovely little children> set fire to the upper deck of one within 
hours of it entering service.

Ivor

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:20:20 +0100, Ian Jelf
 wrote:


>There is a theory - for which I have some time - that if you present 
>passengers with a clean, today and high quality environment, they are 
>more likely to respect it.

The vast majority of today's teens do not respect other peoples
property and apart from vandalizing for the sake of it what about
people getting on the buses and throwing up after a night on the
booze.I do question the validity of replacing old buses with super
modals for use on stage carriage work long distance express work
yes. Last year I traveled to Belgium and return on a coach se