I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on 
Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the 
door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when 
the bell has been pressed.

Does anyone know what they do?

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:06:26 GMT, Mojo 
wrote:

>I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on 
>Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the 
>door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when 
>the bell has been pressed.
>
>Does anyone know what they do?

Aren't they simply a bell push?  This saves people having to stand up or
stretch to a push mounted on a vertical stanchion.  I'm guessing but I
assume they illuminate to show that the bell has been pushed elsewhere
and there's no need to bother.  One of the nicer design features on the
Citaros and better than the location of bell pushes on a number of UK
manufactured buses.  The location of bell pushes should be one of those
things that is standardised on every bus [1] and yet bizarrely TfL seem
to leave to the bus companies to decide.

[1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
double decker and then finding a bell push!

-- 
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:19:14 +0100, Paul Corfield
 wrote:

>[1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
>double decker and then finding a bell push!

There should at the very minimum be one on every pole and probably
more, preferably such that one can be reached from every seat without
standing, especially on the upper deck on rough roads!  They're a
ridiculously cheap thing to skimp on.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jul 16, 9:19 pm, Paul Corfield  wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:06:26 GMT, Mojo 
> wrote:
>
> >I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on
> >Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the
> >door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when
> >the bell has been pressed.
>
> >Does anyone know what they do?
>
> Aren't they simply a bell push?  This saves people having to stand up or
> stretch to a push mounted on a vertical stanchion.  I'm guessing but I
> assume they illuminate to show that the bell has been pushed elsewhere
> and there's no need to bother.  One of the nicer design features on the
> Citaros and better than the location of bell pushes on a number of UK
> manufactured buses.  The location of bell pushes should be one of those
> things that is standardised on every bus [1] and yet bizarrely TfL seem
> to leave to the bus companies to decide.
>
> [1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
> double decker and then finding a bell push!
>
> --
> Paul C
>
> Admits to working for London Underground!



On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
at the top of the stairs.

I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
out rather than delay the bus at the stop.

Maybe the different accessibility of upstairs is the reason for the
different approach, but there are often extra buttons upstairs now.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
wrote:

>On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>at the top of the stairs.

Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"MIG" wrote:

> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> at the top of the stairs.
>
> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.

In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
improvised 'ding ding'.

How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
of conjecture........

Chris

On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
> "MIG" wrote:
> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> > at the top of the stairs.
>
> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud
> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an
> improvised 'ding ding'.
>
> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter
> of conjecture........
>
> Chris


Yes, I remember a female conductor doing something with her heels that
I thought was some kind of Spanish dance step, till I realised what
was going on.

On Jul 16, 9:41 pm, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
> wrote:
>
> >On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> >at the top of the stairs.
>
> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> Neil
>
> --
> Neil Williams
> Put my first name before the at to reply.

I have seen those, but I don't remember seeing one on an upstairs.

M.I.G.:
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
 
Neil Williams:
> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...

In most North American city buses that I've used, there's been a cord
running the length of the bus on each side, typically through metal
loops at (or below) the upper corners of the main windows.  So only two
electrical switches at the front of the bus are required.  Depending on
the layout around the back doors, there may be a separate cord behind
the doors on that side, requiring just one more switch.

It seems a very good method to me: cheap, simple, and effective.
The only downside is that passengers seated by the aisle have to lean
across one person to reach the cord.  (And if there is a section where
the cord can't be reached easily for some reason, pushbuttons can still
be provided there.  Or short sections of vertical cord anchored at the
bottom can be attached to the horizontal cord.)  In Toronto these days
the cord is plastic-covered metal for durability; at one time it was an
ordinary cord.

Is this method used in Britain to any extent?

In both of these shots -- one a Toronto bus previously used in Montreal,
the other from Livermore, California -- you can clearly see the cord on
the right-hand side of the image, in front of the bars between the main
and upper windows:

   http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/bus-8502-03.jpg
   http://www.lavta.org/about/img/avlpic14.jpg
-- 
Mark Brader, Toronto | "We don't use clubs; they weren't invented here.
msb@vex.net          |  We use rocks."                 -- David Keldsen

My text in this article is in the public domain.

"Chris Read"  wrote in message 
news:V4CdnYTN-oEyfwbbRVnyuQA@bt.com...
>
> "MIG" wrote:
>
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
> improvised 'ding ding'.
>
> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
> of conjecture........
>
> Chris
>
>

Well in RT days :) if the conductor was upstairs at the front, he would just 
stamp twice on the floor. That seemed to do the trick.

MaxB
>

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:20 +0100, "Chris Read"
 wrote:

>"MIG" wrote:
>
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
>In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
>tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
>taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
>improvised 'ding ding'.
>
>How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
>of conjecture........

On a lowbridge bus, with a sunken gangway, you could kick the bulkhead
behind the driver's head with your heel, while watching the mirror
above the stairs. On a highbridge bus, you could stamp on the floor
above the cab.

Both actions were likely to strain relations between conductor and
driver.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

"MIG"  wrote in message 
news:1184622016.574027.275240@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 9:41 pm, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> >at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
>> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> I have seen those, but I don't remember seeing one on an upstairs.

The remaining Metrobuses in our fleet (TWM) have these on the ceiling 
upstairs (and also on the lower deck on some buses), but they suffer from 
the disadvantage that you have to stand to reach them and some shorter 
people have trouble reaching them at all.

Ivor

"Mark Brader"  wrote in message 
news:139nrd25b4smnb0@corp.supernews.com...
> M.I.G.:
>>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>>> at the top of the stairs.
>
> Neil Williams:
>> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
>> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> In most North American city buses that I've used, there's been a cord
> running the length of the bus on each side, typically through metal
> loops at (or below) the upper corners of the main windows.  So only two
> electrical switches at the front of the bus are required.  Depending on
> the layout around the back doors, there may be a separate cord behind
> the doors on that side, requiring just one more switch.
>
> It seems a very good method to me: cheap, simple, and effective.
> The only downside is that passengers seated by the aisle have to lean
> across one person to reach the cord.  (And if there is a section where
> the cord can't be reached easily for some reason, pushbuttons can still
> be provided there.  Or short sections of vertical cord anchored at the
> bottom can be attached to the horizontal cord.)  In Toronto these days
> the cord is plastic-covered metal for durability; at one time it was an
> ordinary cord.
>
> Is this method used in Britain to any extent?

Not since the demise of RT's and Routemasters, no.

Ivor

"MIG"  wrote in message 
news:1184621980.964089.9840@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
>> "MIG" wrote:
>> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell 
>> > push,
>> > at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>>
>> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
>> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two 
>> loud
>> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as 
>> an
>> improvised 'ding ding'.
>>
>> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a 
>> matter
>> of conjecture........
>>
>> Chris
>
>
> Yes, I remember a female conductor doing something with her heels that
> I thought was some kind of Spanish dance step, till I realised what
> was going on.

I always thought that the use of a buzzer for the upstairs pushbutton on 
RT's/RM's was a good idea, so the driver knew a passenger was upstairs if 
pushed to stop, or the conductor was up there if it was a start signal.

Why can't they do that now, so when a buzzer sounds the driver knows it's 
come from upstairs..?

Ivor

>

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:06:26 GMT, Mojo 
wrote:

>I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on 
>Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the 
>door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when 
>the bell has been pressed.
>
>Does anyone know what they do?

Aren't they simply a bell push?  This saves people having to stand up or
stretch to a push mounted on a vertical stanchion.  I'm guessing but I
assume they illuminate to show that the bell has been pushed elsewhere
and there's no need to bother.  One of the nicer design features on the
Citaros and better than the location of bell pushes on a number of UK
manufactured buses.  The location of bell pushes should be one of those
things that is standardised on every bus [1] and yet bizarrely TfL seem
to leave to the bus companies to decide.

[1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
double decker and then finding a bell push!

-- 
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:19:14 +0100, Paul Corfield
 wrote:

>[1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
>double decker and then finding a bell push!

There should at the very minimum be one on every pole and probably
more, preferably such that one can be reached from every seat without
standing, especially on the upper deck on rough roads!  They're a
ridiculously cheap thing to skimp on.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jul 16, 9:19 pm, Paul Corfield  wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:06:26 GMT, Mojo 
> wrote:
>
> >I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on
> >Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the
> >door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when
> >the bell has been pressed.
>
> >Does anyone know what they do?
>
> Aren't they simply a bell push?  This saves people having to stand up or
> stretch to a push mounted on a vertical stanchion.  I'm guessing but I
> assume they illuminate to show that the bell has been pushed elsewhere
> and there's no need to bother.  One of the nicer design features on the
> Citaros and better than the location of bell pushes on a number of UK
> manufactured buses.  The location of bell pushes should be one of those
> things that is standardised on every bus [1] and yet bizarrely TfL seem
> to leave to the bus companies to decide.
>
> [1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
> double decker and then finding a bell push!
>
> --
> Paul C
>
> Admits to working for London Underground!



On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
at the top of the stairs.

I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
out rather than delay the bus at the stop.

Maybe the different accessibility of upstairs is the reason for the
different approach, but there are often extra buttons upstairs now.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
wrote:

>On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>at the top of the stairs.

Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"MIG" wrote:

> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> at the top of the stairs.
>
> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.

In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
improvised 'ding ding'.

How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
of conjecture........

Chris

On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
> "MIG" wrote:
> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> > at the top of the stairs.
>
> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud
> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an
> improvised 'ding ding'.
>
> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter
> of conjecture........
>
> Chris


Yes, I remember a female conductor doing something with her heels that
I thought was some kind of Spanish dance step, till I realised what
was going on.

On Jul 16, 9:41 pm, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
> wrote:
>
> >On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> >at the top of the stairs.
>
> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> Neil
>
> --
> Neil Williams
> Put my first name before the at to reply.

I have seen those, but I don't remember seeing one on an upstairs.

M.I.G.:
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
 
Neil Williams:
> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...

In most North American city buses that I've used, there's been a cord
running the length of the bus on each side, typically through metal
loops at (or below) the upper corners of the main windows.  So only two
electrical switches at the front of the bus are required.  Depending on
the layout around the back doors, there may be a separate cord behind
the doors on that side, requiring just one more switch.

It seems a very good method to me: cheap, simple, and effective.
The only downside is that passengers seated by the aisle have to lean
across one person to reach the cord.  (And if there is a section where
the cord can't be reached easily for some reason, pushbuttons can still
be provided there.  Or short sections of vertical cord anchored at the
bottom can be attached to the horizontal cord.)  In Toronto these days
the cord is plastic-covered metal for durability; at one time it was an
ordinary cord.

Is this method used in Britain to any extent?

In both of these shots -- one a Toronto bus previously used in Montreal,
the other from Livermore, California -- you can clearly see the cord on
the right-hand side of the image, in front of the bars between the main
and upper windows:

   http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/bus-8502-03.jpg
   http://www.lavta.org/about/img/avlpic14.jpg
-- 
Mark Brader, Toronto | "We don't use clubs; they weren't invented here.
msb@vex.net          |  We use rocks."                 -- David Keldsen

My text in this article is in the public domain.

"Chris Read"  wrote in message 
news:V4CdnYTN-oEyfwbbRVnyuQA@bt.com...
>
> "MIG" wrote:
>
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
> improvised 'ding ding'.
>
> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
> of conjecture........
>
> Chris
>
>

Well in RT days :) if the conductor was upstairs at the front, he would just 
stamp twice on the floor. That seemed to do the trick.

MaxB
>

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:20 +0100, "Chris Read"
 wrote:

>"MIG" wrote:
>
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
>In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
>tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
>taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
>improvised 'ding ding'.
>
>How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
>of conjecture........

On a lowbridge bus, with a sunken gangway, you could kick the bulkhead
behind the driver's head with your heel, while watching the mirror
above the stairs. On a highbridge bus, you could stamp on the floor
above the cab.

Both actions were likely to strain relations between conductor and
driver.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

"MIG"  wrote in message 
news:1184622016.574027.275240@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 9:41 pm, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> >at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
>> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> I have seen those, but I don't remember seeing one on an upstairs.

The remaining Metrobuses in our fleet (TWM) have these on the ceiling 
upstairs (and also on the lower deck on some buses), but they suffer from 
the disadvantage that you have to stand to reach them and some shorter 
people have trouble reaching them at all.

Ivor

"Mark Brader"  wrote in message 
news:139nrd25b4smnb0@corp.supernews.com...
> M.I.G.:
>>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>>> at the top of the stairs.
>
> Neil Williams:
>> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
>> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> In most North American city buses that I've used, there's been a cord
> running the length of the bus on each side, typically through metal
> loops at (or below) the upper corners of the main windows.  So only two
> electrical switches at the front of the bus are required.  Depending on
> the layout around the back doors, there may be a separate cord behind
> the doors on that side, requiring just one more switch.
>
> It seems a very good method to me: cheap, simple, and effective.
> The only downside is that passengers seated by the aisle have to lean
> across one person to reach the cord.  (And if there is a section where
> the cord can't be reached easily for some reason, pushbuttons can still
> be provided there.  Or short sections of vertical cord anchored at the
> bottom can be attached to the horizontal cord.)  In Toronto these days
> the cord is plastic-covered metal for durability; at one time it was an
> ordinary cord.
>
> Is this method used in Britain to any extent?

Not since the demise of RT's and Routemasters, no.

Ivor

"MIG"  wrote in message 
news:1184621980.964089.9840@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
>> "MIG" wrote:
>> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell 
>> > push,
>> > at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>>
>> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
>> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two 
>> loud
>> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as 
>> an
>> improvised 'ding ding'.
>>
>> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a 
>> matter
>> of conjecture........
>>
>> Chris
>
>
> Yes, I remember a female conductor doing something with her heels that
> I thought was some kind of Spanish dance step, till I realised what
> was going on.

I always thought that the use of a buzzer for the upstairs pushbutton on 
RT's/RM's was a good idea, so the driver knew a passenger was upstairs if 
pushed to stop, or the conductor was up there if it was a start signal.

Why can't they do that now, so when a buzzer sounds the driver knows it's 
come from upstairs..?

Ivor

>

On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
> "MIG" wrote:

> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> > at the top of the stairs.
>
> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud
> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an
> improvised 'ding ding'.
>
> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter
> of conjecture........

Which gives another answer as to why there was only one bell, and that
near the stairs: so that the conductor gad to be in view of the
platform in order to be able to give the genuine starting signal.
Quite a clever safety device.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:40:16 -0700, MIG 
wrote:

>I have seen those, but I don't remember seeing one on an upstairs.

ISTR some Manchester buses had them on both decks.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Offramp"  wrote in message 
news:1184642259.345184.48560@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
>> "MIG" wrote:
>
>> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> > at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>>
>> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
>> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud
>> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an
>> improvised 'ding ding'.
>>
>> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a 
>> matter
>> of conjecture........
>
> Which gives another answer as to why there was only one bell, and that
> near the stairs: so that the conductor gad to be in view of the
> platform in order to be able to give the genuine starting signal.
> Quite a clever safety device.
>
The buses I first drove had three or four  bell pushes upstairs and also 
down.  They all operated a buzzer, except the one at the top of the stairs, 
which operated a bell.

On a "buzz-buzz", driver did extra-special checks on mirrors before pulling 
away. You could see inside the lower saloon using the offside mirror, and 
the platform using the nearside one.

On a "ding-ding" you knew the conductor was on the platform or at the top of 
the stairs.

Nowadays, of course, bells/ buzzers are merely provided as a source of 
amusement to keep the passengers happy, and serve no useful purpose.

"Press Once" says the notice.
So Wally does.
Once.....

.....With each finger.

There is not now anyone on a bus capable of ringing a bell responsibly, 
apart from the driver, and he can't reach them.....

On Jul 17, 1:43 am, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "Mark Brader"  wrote in message
>
> news:139nrd25b4smnb0@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > M.I.G.:
> >>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> >>> at the top of the stairs.
>
> > Neil Williams:
> >> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
> >> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> > In most North American city buses that I've used, there's been a cord
> > running the length of the bus on each side, typically through metal
> > loops at (or below) the upper corners of the main windows.  So only two
> > electrical switches at the front of the bus are required.  Depending on
> > the layout around the back doors, there may be a separate cord behind
> > the doors on that side, requiring just one more switch.
>
> > It seems a very good method to me: cheap, simple, and effective.
> > The only downside is that passengers seated by the aisle have to lean
> > across one person to reach the cord.  (And if there is a section where
> > the cord can't be reached easily for some reason, pushbuttons can still
> > be provided there.  Or short sections of vertical cord anchored at the
> > bottom can be attached to the horizontal cord.)  In Toronto these days
> > the cord is plastic-covered metal for durability; at one time it was an
> > ordinary cord.
>
> > Is this method used in Britain to any extent?
>
> Not since the demise of RT's and Routemasters, no.
>
> Ivor-


And I can only remember them downstairs on Routemasters, with a push
button at the top of the stairs.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:06:26 GMT, Mojo 
wrote:

>I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on 
>Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the 
>door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when 
>the bell has been pressed.
>
>Does anyone know what they do?

Aren't they simply a bell push?  This saves people having to stand up or
stretch to a push mounted on a vertical stanchion.  I'm guessing but I
assume they illuminate to show that the bell has been pushed elsewhere
and there's no need to bother.  One of the nicer design features on the
Citaros and better than the location of bell pushes on a number of UK
manufactured buses.  The location of bell pushes should be one of those
things that is standardised on every bus [1] and yet bizarrely TfL seem
to leave to the bus companies to decide.

[1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
double decker and then finding a bell push!

-- 
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:19:14 +0100, Paul Corfield
 wrote:

>[1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
>double decker and then finding a bell push!

There should at the very minimum be one on every pole and probably
more, preferably such that one can be reached from every seat without
standing, especially on the upper deck on rough roads!  They're a
ridiculously cheap thing to skimp on.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jul 16, 9:19 pm, Paul Corfield  wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:06:26 GMT, Mojo 
> wrote:
>
> >I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on
> >Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the
> >door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when
> >the bell has been pressed.
>
> >Does anyone know what they do?
>
> Aren't they simply a bell push?  This saves people having to stand up or
> stretch to a push mounted on a vertical stanchion.  I'm guessing but I
> assume they illuminate to show that the bell has been pushed elsewhere
> and there's no need to bother.  One of the nicer design features on the
> Citaros and better than the location of bell pushes on a number of UK
> manufactured buses.  The location of bell pushes should be one of those
> things that is standardised on every bus [1] and yet bizarrely TfL seem
> to leave to the bus companies to decide.
>
> [1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
> double decker and then finding a bell push!
>
> --
> Paul C
>
> Admits to working for London Underground!



On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
at the top of the stairs.

I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
out rather than delay the bus at the stop.

Maybe the different accessibility of upstairs is the reason for the
different approach, but there are often extra buttons upstairs now.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
wrote:

>On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>at the top of the stairs.

Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"MIG" wrote:

> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> at the top of the stairs.
>
> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.

In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
improvised 'ding ding'.

How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
of conjecture........

Chris

On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
> "MIG" wrote:
> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> > at the top of the stairs.
>
> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud
> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an
> improvised 'ding ding'.
>
> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter
> of conjecture........
>
> Chris


Yes, I remember a female conductor doing something with her heels that
I thought was some kind of Spanish dance step, till I realised what
was going on.

On Jul 16, 9:41 pm, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
> wrote:
>
> >On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> >at the top of the stairs.
>
> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> Neil
>
> --
> Neil Williams
> Put my first name before the at to reply.

I have seen those, but I don't remember seeing one on an upstairs.

M.I.G.:
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
 
Neil Williams:
> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...

In most North American city buses that I've used, there's been a cord
running the length of the bus on each side, typically through metal
loops at (or below) the upper corners of the main windows.  So only two
electrical switches at the front of the bus are required.  Depending on
the layout around the back doors, there may be a separate cord behind
the doors on that side, requiring just one more switch.

It seems a very good method to me: cheap, simple, and effective.
The only downside is that passengers seated by the aisle have to lean
across one person to reach the cord.  (And if there is a section where
the cord can't be reached easily for some reason, pushbuttons can still
be provided there.  Or short sections of vertical cord anchored at the
bottom can be attached to the horizontal cord.)  In Toronto these days
the cord is plastic-covered metal for durability; at one time it was an
ordinary cord.

Is this method used in Britain to any extent?

In both of these shots -- one a Toronto bus previously used in Montreal,
the other from Livermore, California -- you can clearly see the cord on
the right-hand side of the image, in front of the bars between the main
and upper windows:

   http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/bus-8502-03.jpg
   http://www.lavta.org/about/img/avlpic14.jpg
-- 
Mark Brader, Toronto | "We don't use clubs; they weren't invented here.
msb@vex.net          |  We use rocks."                 -- David Keldsen

My text in this article is in the public domain.

"Chris Read"  wrote in message 
news:V4CdnYTN-oEyfwbbRVnyuQA@bt.com...
>
> "MIG" wrote:
>
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
> improvised 'ding ding'.
>
> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
> of conjecture........
>
> Chris
>
>

Well in RT days :) if the conductor was upstairs at the front, he would just 
stamp twice on the floor. That seemed to do the trick.

MaxB
>

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:20 +0100, "Chris Read"
 wrote:

>"MIG" wrote:
>
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
>In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
>tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
>taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
>improvised 'ding ding'.
>
>How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
>of conjecture........

On a lowbridge bus, with a sunken gangway, you could kick the bulkhead
behind the driver's head with your heel, while watching the mirror
above the stairs. On a highbridge bus, you could stamp on the floor
above the cab.

Both actions were likely to strain relations between conductor and
driver.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

"MIG"  wrote in message 
news:1184622016.574027.275240@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 9:41 pm, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> >at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
>> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> I have seen those, but I don't remember seeing one on an upstairs.

The remaining Metrobuses in our fleet (TWM) have these on the ceiling 
upstairs (and also on the lower deck on some buses), but they suffer from 
the disadvantage that you have to stand to reach them and some shorter 
people have trouble reaching them at all.

Ivor

"Mark Brader"  wrote in message 
news:139nrd25b4smnb0@corp.supernews.com...
> M.I.G.:
>>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>>> at the top of the stairs.
>
> Neil Williams:
>> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
>> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> In most North American city buses that I've used, there's been a cord
> running the length of the bus on each side, typically through metal
> loops at (or below) the upper corners of the main windows.  So only two
> electrical switches at the front of the bus are required.  Depending on
> the layout around the back doors, there may be a separate cord behind
> the doors on that side, requiring just one more switch.
>
> It seems a very good method to me: cheap, simple, and effective.
> The only downside is that passengers seated by the aisle have to lean
> across one person to reach the cord.  (And if there is a section where
> the cord can't be reached easily for some reason, pushbuttons can still
> be provided there.  Or short sections of vertical cord anchored at the
> bottom can be attached to the horizontal cord.)  In Toronto these days
> the cord is plastic-covered metal for durability; at one time it was an
> ordinary cord.
>
> Is this method used in Britain to any extent?

Not since the demise of RT's and Routemasters, no.

Ivor

"MIG"  wrote in message 
news:1184621980.964089.9840@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
>> "MIG" wrote:
>> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell 
>> > push,
>> > at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>>
>> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
>> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two 
>> loud
>> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as 
>> an
>> improvised 'ding ding'.
>>
>> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a 
>> matter
>> of conjecture........
>>
>> Chris
>
>
> Yes, I remember a female conductor doing something with her heels that
> I thought was some kind of Spanish dance step, till I realised what
> was going on.

I always thought that the use of a buzzer for the upstairs pushbutton on 
RT's/RM's was a good idea, so the driver knew a passenger was upstairs if 
pushed to stop, or the conductor was up there if it was a start signal.

Why can't they do that now, so when a buzzer sounds the driver knows it's 
come from upstairs..?

Ivor

>

On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
> "MIG" wrote:

> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> > at the top of the stairs.
>
> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud
> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an
> improvised 'ding ding'.
>
> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter
> of conjecture........

Which gives another answer as to why there was only one bell, and that
near the stairs: so that the conductor gad to be in view of the
platform in order to be able to give the genuine starting signal.
Quite a clever safety device.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:40:16 -0700, MIG 
wrote:

>I have seen those, but I don't remember seeing one on an upstairs.

ISTR some Manchester buses had them on both decks.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Offramp"  wrote in message 
news:1184642259.345184.48560@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
>> "MIG" wrote:
>
>> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> > at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>>
>> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
>> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud
>> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an
>> improvised 'ding ding'.
>>
>> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a 
>> matter
>> of conjecture........
>
> Which gives another answer as to why there was only one bell, and that
> near the stairs: so that the conductor gad to be in view of the
> platform in order to be able to give the genuine starting signal.
> Quite a clever safety device.
>
The buses I first drove had three or four  bell pushes upstairs and also 
down.  They all operated a buzzer, except the one at the top of the stairs, 
which operated a bell.

On a "buzz-buzz", driver did extra-special checks on mirrors before pulling 
away. You could see inside the lower saloon using the offside mirror, and 
the platform using the nearside one.

On a "ding-ding" you knew the conductor was on the platform or at the top of 
the stairs.

Nowadays, of course, bells/ buzzers are merely provided as a source of 
amusement to keep the passengers happy, and serve no useful purpose.

"Press Once" says the notice.
So Wally does.
Once.....

.....With each finger.

There is not now anyone on a bus capable of ringing a bell responsibly, 
apart from the driver, and he can't reach them.....

On Jul 17, 1:43 am, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "Mark Brader"  wrote in message
>
> news:139nrd25b4smnb0@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > M.I.G.:
> >>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> >>> at the top of the stairs.
>
> > Neil Williams:
> >> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
> >> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> > In most North American city buses that I've used, there's been a cord
> > running the length of the bus on each side, typically through metal
> > loops at (or below) the upper corners of the main windows.  So only two
> > electrical switches at the front of the bus are required.  Depending on
> > the layout around the back doors, there may be a separate cord behind
> > the doors on that side, requiring just one more switch.
>
> > It seems a very good method to me: cheap, simple, and effective.
> > The only downside is that passengers seated by the aisle have to lean
> > across one person to reach the cord.  (And if there is a section where
> > the cord can't be reached easily for some reason, pushbuttons can still
> > be provided there.  Or short sections of vertical cord anchored at the
> > bottom can be attached to the horizontal cord.)  In Toronto these days
> > the cord is plastic-covered metal for durability; at one time it was an
> > ordinary cord.
>
> > Is this method used in Britain to any extent?
>
> Not since the demise of RT's and Routemasters, no.
>
> Ivor-


And I can only remember them downstairs on Routemasters, with a push
button at the top of the stairs.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:06:26 GMT, Mojo 
wrote:

>I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on 
>Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the 
>door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when 
>the bell has been pressed.
>
>Does anyone know what they do?

Aren't they simply a bell push?  This saves people having to stand up or
stretch to a push mounted on a vertical stanchion.  I'm guessing but I
assume they illuminate to show that the bell has been pushed elsewhere
and there's no need to bother.  One of the nicer design features on the
Citaros and better than the location of bell pushes on a number of UK
manufactured buses.  The location of bell pushes should be one of those
things that is standardised on every bus [1] and yet bizarrely TfL seem
to leave to the bus companies to decide.

[1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
double decker and then finding a bell push!

-- 
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:19:14 +0100, Paul Corfield
 wrote:

>[1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
>double decker and then finding a bell push!

There should at the very minimum be one on every pole and probably
more, preferably such that one can be reached from every seat without
standing, especially on the upper deck on rough roads!  They're a
ridiculously cheap thing to skimp on.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jul 16, 9:19 pm, Paul Corfield  wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:06:26 GMT, Mojo 
> wrote:
>
> >I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on
> >Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the
> >door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when
> >the bell has been pressed.
>
> >Does anyone know what they do?
>
> Aren't they simply a bell push?  This saves people having to stand up or
> stretch to a push mounted on a vertical stanchion.  I'm guessing but I
> assume they illuminate to show that the bell has been pushed elsewhere
> and there's no need to bother.  One of the nicer design features on the
> Citaros and better than the location of bell pushes on a number of UK
> manufactured buses.  The location of bell pushes should be one of those
> things that is standardised on every bus [1] and yet bizarrely TfL seem
> to leave to the bus companies to decide.
>
> [1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
> double decker and then finding a bell push!
>
> --
> Paul C
>
> Admits to working for London Underground!



On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
at the top of the stairs.

I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
out rather than delay the bus at the stop.

Maybe the different accessibility of upstairs is the reason for the
different approach, but there are often extra buttons upstairs now.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
wrote:

>On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>at the top of the stairs.

Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"MIG" wrote:

> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> at the top of the stairs.
>
> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.

In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
improvised 'ding ding'.

How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
of conjecture........

Chris

On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
> "MIG" wrote:
> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> > at the top of the stairs.
>
> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud
> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an
> improvised 'ding ding'.
>
> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter
> of conjecture........
>
> Chris


Yes, I remember a female conductor doing something with her heels that
I thought was some kind of Spanish dance step, till I realised what
was going on.

On Jul 16, 9:41 pm, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
> wrote:
>
> >On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> >at the top of the stairs.
>
> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> Neil
>
> --
> Neil Williams
> Put my first name before the at to reply.

I have seen those, but I don't remember seeing one on an upstairs.

M.I.G.:
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
 
Neil Williams:
> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...

In most North American city buses that I've used, there's been a cord
running the length of the bus on each side, typically through metal
loops at (or below) the upper corners of the main windows.  So only two
electrical switches at the front of the bus are required.  Depending on
the layout around the back doors, there may be a separate cord behind
the doors on that side, requiring just one more switch.

It seems a very good method to me: cheap, simple, and effective.
The only downside is that passengers seated by the aisle have to lean
across one person to reach the cord.  (And if there is a section where
the cord can't be reached easily for some reason, pushbuttons can still
be provided there.  Or short sections of vertical cord anchored at the
bottom can be attached to the horizontal cord.)  In Toronto these days
the cord is plastic-covered metal for durability; at one time it was an
ordinary cord.

Is this method used in Britain to any extent?

In both of these shots -- one a Toronto bus previously used in Montreal,
the other from Livermore, California -- you can clearly see the cord on
the right-hand side of the image, in front of the bars between the main
and upper windows:

   http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/bus-8502-03.jpg
   http://www.lavta.org/about/img/avlpic14.jpg
-- 
Mark Brader, Toronto | "We don't use clubs; they weren't invented here.
msb@vex.net          |  We use rocks."                 -- David Keldsen

My text in this article is in the public domain.

"Chris Read"  wrote in message 
news:V4CdnYTN-oEyfwbbRVnyuQA@bt.com...
>
> "MIG" wrote:
>
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
> improvised 'ding ding'.
>
> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
> of conjecture........
>
> Chris
>
>

Well in RT days :) if the conductor was upstairs at the front, he would just 
stamp twice on the floor. That seemed to do the trick.

MaxB
>

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:20 +0100, "Chris Read"
 wrote:

>"MIG" wrote:
>
>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
>In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing 
>tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud 
>taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an 
>improvised 'ding ding'.
>
>How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter 
>of conjecture........

On a lowbridge bus, with a sunken gangway, you could kick the bulkhead
behind the driver's head with your heel, while watching the mirror
above the stairs. On a highbridge bus, you could stamp on the floor
above the cab.

Both actions were likely to strain relations between conductor and
driver.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

"MIG"  wrote in message 
news:1184622016.574027.275240@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 9:41 pm, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:35:01 -0700, MIG 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> >at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
>> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> I have seen those, but I don't remember seeing one on an upstairs.

The remaining Metrobuses in our fleet (TWM) have these on the ceiling 
upstairs (and also on the lower deck on some buses), but they suffer from 
the disadvantage that you have to stand to reach them and some shorter 
people have trouble reaching them at all.

Ivor

"Mark Brader"  wrote in message 
news:139nrd25b4smnb0@corp.supernews.com...
> M.I.G.:
>>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>>> at the top of the stairs.
>
> Neil Williams:
>> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
>> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> In most North American city buses that I've used, there's been a cord
> running the length of the bus on each side, typically through metal
> loops at (or below) the upper corners of the main windows.  So only two
> electrical switches at the front of the bus are required.  Depending on
> the layout around the back doors, there may be a separate cord behind
> the doors on that side, requiring just one more switch.
>
> It seems a very good method to me: cheap, simple, and effective.
> The only downside is that passengers seated by the aisle have to lean
> across one person to reach the cord.  (And if there is a section where
> the cord can't be reached easily for some reason, pushbuttons can still
> be provided there.  Or short sections of vertical cord anchored at the
> bottom can be attached to the horizontal cord.)  In Toronto these days
> the cord is plastic-covered metal for durability; at one time it was an
> ordinary cord.
>
> Is this method used in Britain to any extent?

Not since the demise of RT's and Routemasters, no.

Ivor

"MIG"  wrote in message 
news:1184621980.964089.9840@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
>> "MIG" wrote:
>> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell 
>> > push,
>> > at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>>
>> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
>> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two 
>> loud
>> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as 
>> an
>> improvised 'ding ding'.
>>
>> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a 
>> matter
>> of conjecture........
>>
>> Chris
>
>
> Yes, I remember a female conductor doing something with her heels that
> I thought was some kind of Spanish dance step, till I realised what
> was going on.

I always thought that the use of a buzzer for the upstairs pushbutton on 
RT's/RM's was a good idea, so the driver knew a passenger was upstairs if 
pushed to stop, or the conductor was up there if it was a start signal.

Why can't they do that now, so when a buzzer sounds the driver knows it's 
come from upstairs..?

Ivor

>

On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
> "MIG" wrote:

> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> > at the top of the stairs.
>
> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>
> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud
> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an
> improvised 'ding ding'.
>
> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a matter
> of conjecture........

Which gives another answer as to why there was only one bell, and that
near the stairs: so that the conductor gad to be in view of the
platform in order to be able to give the genuine starting signal.
Quite a clever safety device.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:40:16 -0700, MIG 
wrote:

>I have seen those, but I don't remember seeing one on an upstairs.

ISTR some Manchester buses had them on both decks.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Offramp"  wrote in message 
news:1184642259.345184.48560@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 10:27 pm, "Chris Read"  wrote:
>> "MIG" wrote:
>
>> > On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
>> > at the top of the stairs.
>>
>> > I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
>> > being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
>> > out rather than delay the bus at the stop.
>>
>> In RM days, this was often inconvenient for conductors, stuck issuing
>> tickets at the front of the top deck. They sometimes resorted to two loud
>> taps, with metal clippers, on a suitable surface above the driver, as an
>> improvised 'ding ding'.
>>
>> How much of a view they had of the platform from that position is a 
>> matter
>> of conjecture........
>
> Which gives another answer as to why there was only one bell, and that
> near the stairs: so that the conductor gad to be in view of the
> platform in order to be able to give the genuine starting signal.
> Quite a clever safety device.
>
The buses I first drove had three or four  bell pushes upstairs and also 
down.  They all operated a buzzer, except the one at the top of the stairs, 
which operated a bell.

On a "buzz-buzz", driver did extra-special checks on mirrors before pulling 
away. You could see inside the lower saloon using the offside mirror, and 
the platform using the nearside one.

On a "ding-ding" you knew the conductor was on the platform or at the top of 
the stairs.

Nowadays, of course, bells/ buzzers are merely provided as a source of 
amusement to keep the passengers happy, and serve no useful purpose.

"Press Once" says the notice.
So Wally does.
Once.....

.....With each finger.

There is not now anyone on a bus capable of ringing a bell responsibly, 
apart from the driver, and he can't reach them.....

On Jul 17, 1:43 am, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "Mark Brader"  wrote in message
>
> news:139nrd25b4smnb0@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > M.I.G.:
> >>> On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
> >>> at the top of the stairs.
>
> > Neil Williams:
> >> Some buses used to have a strip on each side reachable from every
> >> seat.  In that regard we've gone backwards...
>
> > In most North American city buses that I've used, there's been a cord
> > running the length of the bus on each side, typically through metal
> > loops at (or below) the upper corners of the main windows.  So only two
> > electrical switches at the front of the bus are required.  Depending on
> > the layout around the back doors, there may be a separate cord behind
> > the doors on that side, requiring just one more switch.
>
> > It seems a very good method to me: cheap, simple, and effective.
> > The only downside is that passengers seated by the aisle have to lean
> > across one person to reach the cord.  (And if there is a section where
> > the cord can't be reached easily for some reason, pushbuttons can still
> > be provided there.  Or short sections of vertical cord anchored at the
> > bottom can be attached to the horizontal cord.)  In Toronto these days
> > the cord is plastic-covered metal for durability; at one time it was an
> > ordinary cord.
>
> > Is this method used in Britain to any extent?
>
> Not since the demise of RT's and Routemasters, no.
>
> Ivor-


And I can only remember them downstairs on Routemasters, with a push
button at the top of the stairs.

At 21:19:14 on Mon, 16 Jul 2007 Paul Corfield opined:- 

>On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:06:26 GMT, Mojo 
>wrote:
>
>>I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on 
>>Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the 
>>door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when 
>>the bell has been pressed.
>>
>>Does anyone know what they do?
>
>Aren't they simply a bell push?  This saves people having to stand up or
>stretch to a push mounted on a vertical stanchion.  I'm guessing but I
>assume they illuminate to show that the bell has been pushed elsewhere
>and there's no need to bother. 

That's exactly how it worked on the bendy I rode on today.

-- 
Thoss

Today's busses do indeed indicate when a passenger is pushing a signal 
upstairs; It is normally a shrill tone along with the standard beep that is 
heard when somebody presses the button on the lower deck.

When the disabled button is pushed RT busses give a small siren sound in 
addition to the beep. I don't think that there is any particular sound on 
the bendibusses, as the driver's dashboard shows a disabled sign.

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message 
news:5g2hppF38ds06U1@mid.individual.net...
> > I always thought that the use of a buzzer for the upstairs pushbutton on
> RT's/RM's was a good idea, so the driver knew a passenger was upstairs if 
> pushed to stop, or the conductor was up there if it was a start signal.
>
> Why can't they do that now, so when a buzzer sounds the driver knows it's 
> come from upstairs..?
>
> Ivor

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:06:26 GMT, Mojo 
wrote:

>I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on 
>Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the 
>door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when 
>the bell has been pressed.
>
>Does anyone know what they do?

Aren't they simply a bell push?  This saves people having to stand up or
stretch to a push mounted on a vertical stanchion.  I'm guessing but I
assume they illuminate to show that the bell has been pushed elsewhere
and there's no need to bother.  One of the nicer design features on the
Citaros and better than the location of bell pushes on a number of UK
manufactured buses.  The location of bell pushes should be one of those
things that is standardised on every bus [1] and yet bizarrely TfL seem
to leave to the bus companies to decide.

[1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
double decker and then finding a bell push!

-- 
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:19:14 +0100, Paul Corfield
 wrote:

>[1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
>double decker and then finding a bell push!

There should at the very minimum be one on every pole and probably
more, preferably such that one can be reached from every seat without
standing, especially on the upper deck on rough roads!  They're a
ridiculously cheap thing to skimp on.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jul 16, 9:19 pm, Paul Corfield  wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:06:26 GMT, Mojo 
> wrote:
>
> >I've noticed by the "bay" of 4 seats near the front of the bus on
> >Mercedes Articulated buses there is a button which reminds me of the
> >door open buttons on mainline trains. They only seem to light up when
> >the bell has been pressed.
>
> >Does anyone know what they do?
>
> Aren't they simply a bell push?  This saves people having to stand up or
> stretch to a push mounted on a vertical stanchion.  I'm guessing but I
> assume they illuminate to show that the bell has been pushed elsewhere
> and there's no need to bother.  One of the nicer design features on the
> Citaros and better than the location of bell pushes on a number of UK
> manufactured buses.  The location of bell pushes should be one of those
> things that is standardised on every bus [1] and yet bizarrely TfL seem
> to leave to the bus companies to decide.
>
> [1] try sitting on certain seats at the back of the lower deck on a
> double decker and then finding a bell push!
>
> --
> Paul C
>
> Admits to working for London Underground!



On the top deck of double deckers there used to only be one bell push,
at the top of the stairs.

I assumed that this was to stop people finding one by their seat and
being tempted to stay there, ie force them to already be on their way
out rather than delay the bus at the stop.

Maybe the different accessibility of upstair