Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement systems
from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras to monitor
the capital's streets. As part of the change they are going to implement
automatic numberplate recognition software.

On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers with
no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down side there
is the possibility that the data could be used for some purpose in the
future (tracking..)

"Chris Hills"  wrote in message 
news:EqA9i.583$p8.123@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement systems
> from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras to monitor
> the capital's streets. As part of the change they are going to implement
> automatic numberplate recognition software.
>
> On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers with
> no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down side there
> is the possibility that the data could be used for some purpose in the
> future (tracking..)

And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates 
belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?

Brimstone wrote:
> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates 
> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"? 

In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
not is to be seen.

"Chris Hills"  wrote in message 
news:eYB9i.636$p8.253@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Brimstone wrote:
>> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates
>> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?
>
> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> not is to be seen.

That would only work if every car in the country was being 
photographed/filmed/recorded every few minutes. I'd hazard a guess that the 
likelyhood of traffic monitoring cameras appearing in the Western Isles in 
the next few months or so is pretty remote.

Brimstone wrote:
> That would only work if every car in the country was being 
> photographed/filmed/recorded every few minutes. I'd hazard a guess that the 
> likelyhood of traffic monitoring cameras appearing in the Western Isles in 
> the next few months or so is pretty remote.

The chance of this happening is very low, but with more cameras doing
anpr, the chance does increase by a non-zero number, however small.

Chris Hills  wrote:

> 
> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> not is to be seen.

Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
the clone?

Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
(Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.

I don't think you've given this much thought.

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Chris Hills  wrote:
>
>>
>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>> not is to be seen.
>
> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> the clone?
>
> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>
> I don't think you've given this much thought.

if it is anpr with plod at the camera site, as usually deployed in Cumbria. 
they will pull both cars.

The Cumbria one to check it is the right one,  the London one as it may be a 
Terrorist.

As normal.  SF has not given this much thought!

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Chris Hills  wrote:
>
>>
>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>> not is to be seen.
>
> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> the clone?
>
> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>
> I don't think you've given this much thought.

Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to 
target for questioning?

Robin  wrote:

> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> > Chris Hills  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> >> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> >> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> >> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> >> not is to be seen.
> >
> > Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> > London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> > the clone?
> >
> > Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> > real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> > there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> > (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> > the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> > registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
> >
> > I don't think you've given this much thought.
> 
> if it is anpr with plod at the camera site, as usually deployed in Cumbria.
> they will pull both cars.

Well no they won't because neither camera site in that instance will be
connected to the other hence all such a manned site will produce is a
confirmation at each location that the plate is valid and that it
matches the description of the car that the officer(s) can see. What's
to investigate?

Also you have forgotten that the discussion here is about the conversion
of traffic monitoring cameras to ANPR. Which means that your comment
about manned operation of sites is irrelevant.

> The Cumbria one to check it is the right one,  the London one as it may be a
> Terrorist.
> 
> As normal.  SF has not given this much thought! 

I've given it considerable thought. I also know how it is implemented
and what its limitations are.

"Chris Hills"  wrote in message 
news:EqA9i.583$p8.123@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement systems
> from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras to monitor
> the capital's streets. As part of the change they are going to implement
> automatic numberplate recognition software.
>
> On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers with
> no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down side there
> is the possibility that the data could be used for some purpose in the
> future (tracking..)

And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates 
belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?

Brimstone wrote:
> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates 
> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"? 

In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
not is to be seen.

"Chris Hills"  wrote in message 
news:eYB9i.636$p8.253@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Brimstone wrote:
>> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates
>> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?
>
> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> not is to be seen.

That would only work if every car in the country was being 
photographed/filmed/recorded every few minutes. I'd hazard a guess that the 
likelyhood of traffic monitoring cameras appearing in the Western Isles in 
the next few months or so is pretty remote.

Brimstone wrote:
> That would only work if every car in the country was being 
> photographed/filmed/recorded every few minutes. I'd hazard a guess that the 
> likelyhood of traffic monitoring cameras appearing in the Western Isles in 
> the next few months or so is pretty remote.

The chance of this happening is very low, but with more cameras doing
anpr, the chance does increase by a non-zero number, however small.

Chris Hills  wrote:

> 
> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> not is to be seen.

Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
the clone?

Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
(Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.

I don't think you've given this much thought.

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Chris Hills  wrote:
>
>>
>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>> not is to be seen.
>
> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> the clone?
>
> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>
> I don't think you've given this much thought.

if it is anpr with plod at the camera site, as usually deployed in Cumbria. 
they will pull both cars.

The Cumbria one to check it is the right one,  the London one as it may be a 
Terrorist.

As normal.  SF has not given this much thought!

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Chris Hills  wrote:
>
>>
>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>> not is to be seen.
>
> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> the clone?
>
> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>
> I don't think you've given this much thought.

Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to 
target for questioning?

Robin  wrote:

> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> > Chris Hills  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> >> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> >> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> >> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> >> not is to be seen.
> >
> > Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> > London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> > the clone?
> >
> > Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> > real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> > there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> > (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> > the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> > registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
> >
> > I don't think you've given this much thought.
> 
> if it is anpr with plod at the camera site, as usually deployed in Cumbria.
> they will pull both cars.

Well no they won't because neither camera site in that instance will be
connected to the other hence all such a manned site will produce is a
confirmation at each location that the plate is valid and that it
matches the description of the car that the officer(s) can see. What's
to investigate?

Also you have forgotten that the discussion here is about the conversion
of traffic monitoring cameras to ANPR. Which means that your comment
about manned operation of sites is irrelevant.

> The Cumbria one to check it is the right one,  the London one as it may be a
> Terrorist.
> 
> As normal.  SF has not given this much thought! 

I've given it considerable thought. I also know how it is implemented
and what its limitations are.

ib  wrote:

> Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to
> target for questioning?

Not really, no. It will do fine for stories to frighten children with
though.

"ib"  wrote in message 
news:EGF9i.20479$zL6.16261@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
>> Chris Hills  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>>> not is to be seen.
>>
>> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
>> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
>> the clone?
>>
>> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
>> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
>> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
>> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
>> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
>> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>>
>> I don't think you've given this much thought.
>
> Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to 
> target for questioning?

But you cn only "target" one vehicle, the one that's legit. The clone gets 
away. DOH!!!!

Brimstone  wrote:

> But you cn only "target" one vehicle, the one that's legit. The clone gets
> away. DOH!!!! 

Exactly, it's a hassle for the law abiding who register, insure, tax and
MOT their cars the scumbags get away with it more often than not just
the same as they do now. The times that they stand a chance of beign
caught are when they commit offences that give a police officer cause to
check documents/VIN etc.

"Chris Hills"  wrote in message 
news:EqA9i.583$p8.123@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement systems
> from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras to monitor
> the capital's streets. As part of the change they are going to implement
> automatic numberplate recognition software.
>
> On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers with
> no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down side there
> is the possibility that the data could be used for some purpose in the
> future (tracking..)

And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates 
belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?

Brimstone wrote:
> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates 
> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"? 

In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
not is to be seen.

"Chris Hills"  wrote in message 
news:eYB9i.636$p8.253@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Brimstone wrote:
>> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates
>> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?
>
> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> not is to be seen.

That would only work if every car in the country was being 
photographed/filmed/recorded every few minutes. I'd hazard a guess that the 
likelyhood of traffic monitoring cameras appearing in the Western Isles in 
the next few months or so is pretty remote.

Brimstone wrote:
> That would only work if every car in the country was being 
> photographed/filmed/recorded every few minutes. I'd hazard a guess that the 
> likelyhood of traffic monitoring cameras appearing in the Western Isles in 
> the next few months or so is pretty remote.

The chance of this happening is very low, but with more cameras doing
anpr, the chance does increase by a non-zero number, however small.

Chris Hills  wrote:

> 
> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> not is to be seen.

Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
the clone?

Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
(Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.

I don't think you've given this much thought.

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Chris Hills  wrote:
>
>>
>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>> not is to be seen.
>
> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> the clone?
>
> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>
> I don't think you've given this much thought.

if it is anpr with plod at the camera site, as usually deployed in Cumbria. 
they will pull both cars.

The Cumbria one to check it is the right one,  the London one as it may be a 
Terrorist.

As normal.  SF has not given this much thought!

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Chris Hills  wrote:
>
>>
>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>> not is to be seen.
>
> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> the clone?
>
> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>
> I don't think you've given this much thought.

Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to 
target for questioning?

Robin  wrote:

> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> > Chris Hills  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> >> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> >> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> >> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> >> not is to be seen.
> >
> > Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> > London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> > the clone?
> >
> > Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> > real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> > there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> > (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> > the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> > registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
> >
> > I don't think you've given this much thought.
> 
> if it is anpr with plod at the camera site, as usually deployed in Cumbria.
> they will pull both cars.

Well no they won't because neither camera site in that instance will be
connected to the other hence all such a manned site will produce is a
confirmation at each location that the plate is valid and that it
matches the description of the car that the officer(s) can see. What's
to investigate?

Also you have forgotten that the discussion here is about the conversion
of traffic monitoring cameras to ANPR. Which means that your comment
about manned operation of sites is irrelevant.

> The Cumbria one to check it is the right one,  the London one as it may be a
> Terrorist.
> 
> As normal.  SF has not given this much thought! 

I've given it considerable thought. I also know how it is implemented
and what its limitations are.

ib  wrote:

> Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to
> target for questioning?

Not really, no. It will do fine for stories to frighten children with
though.

"ib"  wrote in message 
news:EGF9i.20479$zL6.16261@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
>> Chris Hills  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>>> not is to be seen.
>>
>> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
>> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
>> the clone?
>>
>> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
>> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
>> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
>> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
>> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
>> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>>
>> I don't think you've given this much thought.
>
> Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to 
> target for questioning?

But you cn only "target" one vehicle, the one that's legit. The clone gets 
away. DOH!!!!

Brimstone  wrote:

> But you cn only "target" one vehicle, the one that's legit. The clone gets
> away. DOH!!!! 

Exactly, it's a hassle for the law abiding who register, insure, tax and
MOT their cars the scumbags get away with it more often than not just
the same as they do now. The times that they stand a chance of beign
caught are when they commit offences that give a police officer cause to
check documents/VIN etc.

"Brimstone"  wrote in message
news:Xdudneu2fPfO1PrbnZ2dnUVZ8qWhnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "ib"  wrote in message
> news:EGF9i.20479$zL6.16261@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> >
> > "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> >> Chris Hills  wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> >>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> >>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> >>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen
or
> >>> not is to be seen.
> >>
> >> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> >> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> >> the clone?
> >>
> >> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> >> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know
that
> >> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> >> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> >> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> >> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
> >>
> >> I don't think you've given this much thought.
> >
> > Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers
to
> > target for questioning?
>
> But you cn only "target" one vehicle, the one that's legit. The clone gets
> away. DOH!!!!

With ANPR in traffic cars, if the cloned number is flagged up on the
database then the car could get pulled next time it is out and about (as
could the legit car, of course).

On Jun 6, 5:16 pm, "Brimstone"  wrote:
> "Chris Hills"  wrote in message
>
> news:EqA9i.583$p8.123@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> > Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement systems
> > from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras to monitor
> > the capital's streets. As part of the change they are going to implement
> > automatic numberplate recognition software.
>
> > On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers with
> > no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down side there
> > is the possibility that the data could be used for some purpose in the
> > future (tracking..)
>
> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates
> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?

Assuming that cloned cars are more likely to commit traffic related
offences then they are more likely to be spotted and the response of
the cloned driver to a NIP or  suchlike /could/be used to flag up the
cloned vehicle for a stop

best wishes
james

mt99999@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 6, 5:16 pm, "Brimstone"  wrote:
>> "Chris Hills"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:EqA9i.583$p8.123@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>>> Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement
>>> systems from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras
>>> to monitor the capital's streets. As part of the change they are
>>> going to implement automatic numberplate recognition software.
>>
>>> On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers
>>> with no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down
>>> side there is the possibility that the data could be used for some
>>> purpose in the future (tracking..)
>>
>> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration
>> plates belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?
>
> Assuming that cloned cars are more likely to commit traffic related
> offences then they are more likely to be spotted and the response of
> the cloned driver to a NIP or  suchlike /could/be used to flag up the
> cloned vehicle for a stop

I suspect the 'cloners' rotate plates rather than stick with the one.....

" cupra"  wrote in message 
news:5cq31rF322cneU1@mid.individual.net...
> mt99999@hotmail.com wrote:

>>
>> Assuming that cloned cars are more likely to commit traffic related
>> offences then they are more likely to be spotted and the response of
>> the cloned driver to a NIP or  suchlike /could/be used to flag up the
>> cloned vehicle for a stop
>
> I suspect the 'cloners' rotate plates rather than stick with the one.....

Wasn't it ok for James Bond's DB5 to do this?

Paul

On Jun 7, 8:21 am, "PM" <pm@m_.com.invalid> wrote:
> With ANPR in traffic cars, if the cloned number is flagged up on the
> database then the car could get pulled next time it is out and about (as
> could the legit car, of course).

What traffic cars? I haven't seen one in years.

In any case, why should I have to be pissed around by the police
because someone else copied my number plate?

Oh, there's an idea: why don't we all copy number plates used by
politicians? Not only will we be safe from speed cameras, but any
traffic police who do exist will have to keep pulling them over to
check their documents.

      Mark

wrote in message
news:1181216490.118589.104410@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 7, 8:21 am, "PM" <pm@m_.com.invalid> wrote:
> > With ANPR in traffic cars, if the cloned number is flagged up on the
> > database then the car could get pulled next time it is out and about (as
> > could the legit car, of course).
>
> What traffic cars? I haven't seen one in years.
>
> In any case, why should I have to be pissed around by the police
> because someone else copied my number plate?
>
> Oh, there's an idea: why don't we all copy number plates used by
> politicians? Not only will we be safe from speed cameras, but any
> traffic police who do exist will have to keep pulling them over to
> check their documents.
>
>       Mark
>

I like that! Now to find an MP who drives an M reg Cavalier...

"Chris Hills"  wrote in message 
news:EqA9i.583$p8.123@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement systems
> from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras to monitor
> the capital's streets. As part of the change they are going to implement
> automatic numberplate recognition software.
>
> On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers with
> no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down side there
> is the possibility that the data could be used for some purpose in the
> future (tracking..)

And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates 
belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?

Brimstone wrote:
> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates 
> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"? 

In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
not is to be seen.

"Chris Hills"  wrote in message 
news:eYB9i.636$p8.253@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Brimstone wrote:
>> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates
>> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?
>
> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> not is to be seen.

That would only work if every car in the country was being 
photographed/filmed/recorded every few minutes. I'd hazard a guess that the 
likelyhood of traffic monitoring cameras appearing in the Western Isles in 
the next few months or so is pretty remote.

Brimstone wrote:
> That would only work if every car in the country was being 
> photographed/filmed/recorded every few minutes. I'd hazard a guess that the 
> likelyhood of traffic monitoring cameras appearing in the Western Isles in 
> the next few months or so is pretty remote.

The chance of this happening is very low, but with more cameras doing
anpr, the chance does increase by a non-zero number, however small.

Chris Hills  wrote:

> 
> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> not is to be seen.

Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
the clone?

Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
(Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.

I don't think you've given this much thought.

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Chris Hills  wrote:
>
>>
>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>> not is to be seen.
>
> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> the clone?
>
> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>
> I don't think you've given this much thought.

if it is anpr with plod at the camera site, as usually deployed in Cumbria. 
they will pull both cars.

The Cumbria one to check it is the right one,  the London one as it may be a 
Terrorist.

As normal.  SF has not given this much thought!

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Chris Hills  wrote:
>
>>
>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>> not is to be seen.
>
> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> the clone?
>
> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>
> I don't think you've given this much thought.

Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to 
target for questioning?

Robin  wrote:

> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> > Chris Hills  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> >> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> >> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> >> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> >> not is to be seen.
> >
> > Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> > London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> > the clone?
> >
> > Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> > real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> > there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> > (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> > the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> > registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
> >
> > I don't think you've given this much thought.
> 
> if it is anpr with plod at the camera site, as usually deployed in Cumbria.
> they will pull both cars.

Well no they won't because neither camera site in that instance will be
connected to the other hence all such a manned site will produce is a
confirmation at each location that the plate is valid and that it
matches the description of the car that the officer(s) can see. What's
to investigate?

Also you have forgotten that the discussion here is about the conversion
of traffic monitoring cameras to ANPR. Which means that your comment
about manned operation of sites is irrelevant.

> The Cumbria one to check it is the right one,  the London one as it may be a
> Terrorist.
> 
> As normal.  SF has not given this much thought! 

I've given it considerable thought. I also know how it is implemented
and what its limitations are.

ib  wrote:

> Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to
> target for questioning?

Not really, no. It will do fine for stories to frighten children with
though.

"ib"  wrote in message 
news:EGF9i.20479$zL6.16261@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
>> Chris Hills  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>>> not is to be seen.
>>
>> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
>> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
>> the clone?
>>
>> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
>> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
>> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
>> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
>> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
>> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>>
>> I don't think you've given this much thought.
>
> Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to 
> target for questioning?

But you cn only "target" one vehicle, the one that's legit. The clone gets 
away. DOH!!!!

Brimstone  wrote:

> But you cn only "target" one vehicle, the one that's legit. The clone gets
> away. DOH!!!! 

Exactly, it's a hassle for the law abiding who register, insure, tax and
MOT their cars the scumbags get away with it more often than not just
the same as they do now. The times that they stand a chance of beign
caught are when they commit offences that give a police officer cause to
check documents/VIN etc.

"Brimstone"  wrote in message
news:Xdudneu2fPfO1PrbnZ2dnUVZ8qWhnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "ib"  wrote in message
> news:EGF9i.20479$zL6.16261@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> >
> > "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> >> Chris Hills  wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> >>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> >>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> >>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen
or
> >>> not is to be seen.
> >>
> >> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> >> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> >> the clone?
> >>
> >> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> >> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know
that
> >> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> >> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> >> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> >> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
> >>
> >> I don't think you've given this much thought.
> >
> > Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers
to
> > target for questioning?
>
> But you cn only "target" one vehicle, the one that's legit. The clone gets
> away. DOH!!!!

With ANPR in traffic cars, if the cloned number is flagged up on the
database then the car could get pulled next time it is out and about (as
could the legit car, of course).

On Jun 6, 5:16 pm, "Brimstone"  wrote:
> "Chris Hills"  wrote in message
>
> news:EqA9i.583$p8.123@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> > Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement systems
> > from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras to monitor
> > the capital's streets. As part of the change they are going to implement
> > automatic numberplate recognition software.
>
> > On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers with
> > no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down side there
> > is the possibility that the data could be used for some purpose in the
> > future (tracking..)
>
> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates
> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?

Assuming that cloned cars are more likely to commit traffic related
offences then they are more likely to be spotted and the response of
the cloned driver to a NIP or  suchlike /could/be used to flag up the
cloned vehicle for a stop

best wishes
james

mt99999@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 6, 5:16 pm, "Brimstone"  wrote:
>> "Chris Hills"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:EqA9i.583$p8.123@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>>> Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement
>>> systems from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras
>>> to monitor the capital's streets. As part of the change they are
>>> going to implement automatic numberplate recognition software.
>>
>>> On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers
>>> with no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down
>>> side there is the possibility that the data could be used for some
>>> purpose in the future (tracking..)
>>
>> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration
>> plates belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?
>
> Assuming that cloned cars are more likely to commit traffic related
> offences then they are more likely to be spotted and the response of
> the cloned driver to a NIP or  suchlike /could/be used to flag up the
> cloned vehicle for a stop

I suspect the 'cloners' rotate plates rather than stick with the one.....

" cupra"  wrote in message 
news:5cq31rF322cneU1@mid.individual.net...
> mt99999@hotmail.com wrote:

>>
>> Assuming that cloned cars are more likely to commit traffic related
>> offences then they are more likely to be spotted and the response of
>> the cloned driver to a NIP or  suchlike /could/be used to flag up the
>> cloned vehicle for a stop
>
> I suspect the 'cloners' rotate plates rather than stick with the one.....

Wasn't it ok for James Bond's DB5 to do this?

Paul

On Jun 7, 8:21 am, "PM" <pm@m_.com.invalid> wrote:
> With ANPR in traffic cars, if the cloned number is flagged up on the
> database then the car could get pulled next time it is out and about (as
> could the legit car, of course).

What traffic cars? I haven't seen one in years.

In any case, why should I have to be pissed around by the police
because someone else copied my number plate?

Oh, there's an idea: why don't we all copy number plates used by
politicians? Not only will we be safe from speed cameras, but any
traffic police who do exist will have to keep pulling them over to
check their documents.

      Mark

wrote in message
news:1181216490.118589.104410@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 7, 8:21 am, "PM" <pm@m_.com.invalid> wrote:
> > With ANPR in traffic cars, if the cloned number is flagged up on the
> > database then the car could get pulled next time it is out and about (as
> > could the legit car, of course).
>
> What traffic cars? I haven't seen one in years.
>
> In any case, why should I have to be pissed around by the police
> because someone else copied my number plate?
>
> Oh, there's an idea: why don't we all copy number plates used by
> politicians? Not only will we be safe from speed cameras, but any
> traffic police who do exist will have to keep pulling them over to
> check their documents.
>
>       Mark
>

I like that! Now to find an MP who drives an M reg Cavalier...

wrote:

> Assuming 

Indeed you are, hence your comment was pointless noise.

On 2007-06-06, Chris Hills  wrote:
> Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement systems
> from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras to monitor
> the capital's streets. As part of the change they are going to implement
> automatic numberplate recognition software.
>
> On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers with
> no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down side there
> is the possibility that the data could be used for some purpose in the
> future (tracking..)

The future?

If they're paying for a London-wide digital ANRP system, I'm damn
sure they'll want to be able to track vehicles in real-time from the
moment the system is lauched.  It probably won't work correctly
for a while, but they'll probably get it eventually.

-- 
David Taylor

"Chris Hills"  wrote in message 
news:EqA9i.583$p8.123@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement systems
> from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras to monitor
> the capital's streets. As part of the change they are going to implement
> automatic numberplate recognition software.
>
> On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers with
> no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down side there
> is the possibility that the data could be used for some purpose in the
> future (tracking..)

And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates 
belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?

Brimstone wrote:
> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates 
> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"? 

In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
not is to be seen.

"Chris Hills"  wrote in message 
news:eYB9i.636$p8.253@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Brimstone wrote:
>> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates
>> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?
>
> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> not is to be seen.

That would only work if every car in the country was being 
photographed/filmed/recorded every few minutes. I'd hazard a guess that the 
likelyhood of traffic monitoring cameras appearing in the Western Isles in 
the next few months or so is pretty remote.

Brimstone wrote:
> That would only work if every car in the country was being 
> photographed/filmed/recorded every few minutes. I'd hazard a guess that the 
> likelyhood of traffic monitoring cameras appearing in the Western Isles in 
> the next few months or so is pretty remote.

The chance of this happening is very low, but with more cameras doing
anpr, the chance does increase by a non-zero number, however small.

Chris Hills  wrote:

> 
> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> not is to be seen.

Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
the clone?

Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
(Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.

I don't think you've given this much thought.

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Chris Hills  wrote:
>
>>
>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>> not is to be seen.
>
> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> the clone?
>
> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>
> I don't think you've given this much thought.

if it is anpr with plod at the camera site, as usually deployed in Cumbria. 
they will pull both cars.

The Cumbria one to check it is the right one,  the London one as it may be a 
Terrorist.

As normal.  SF has not given this much thought!

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Chris Hills  wrote:
>
>>
>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>> not is to be seen.
>
> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> the clone?
>
> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>
> I don't think you've given this much thought.

Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to 
target for questioning?

Robin  wrote:

> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> > Chris Hills  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> >> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> >> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> >> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
> >> not is to be seen.
> >
> > Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> > London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> > the clone?
> >
> > Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> > real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
> > there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> > (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> > the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> > registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
> >
> > I don't think you've given this much thought.
> 
> if it is anpr with plod at the camera site, as usually deployed in Cumbria.
> they will pull both cars.

Well no they won't because neither camera site in that instance will be
connected to the other hence all such a manned site will produce is a
confirmation at each location that the plate is valid and that it
matches the description of the car that the officer(s) can see. What's
to investigate?

Also you have forgotten that the discussion here is about the conversion
of traffic monitoring cameras to ANPR. Which means that your comment
about manned operation of sites is irrelevant.

> The Cumbria one to check it is the right one,  the London one as it may be a
> Terrorist.
> 
> As normal.  SF has not given this much thought! 

I've given it considerable thought. I also know how it is implemented
and what its limitations are.

ib  wrote:

> Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to
> target for questioning?

Not really, no. It will do fine for stories to frighten children with
though.

"ib"  wrote in message 
news:EGF9i.20479$zL6.16261@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
>> Chris Hills  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
>>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
>>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
>>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen or
>>> not is to be seen.
>>
>> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
>> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
>> the clone?
>>
>> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
>> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know that
>> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
>> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
>> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
>> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
>>
>> I don't think you've given this much thought.
>
> Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers to 
> target for questioning?

But you cn only "target" one vehicle, the one that's legit. The clone gets 
away. DOH!!!!

Brimstone  wrote:

> But you cn only "target" one vehicle, the one that's legit. The clone gets
> away. DOH!!!! 

Exactly, it's a hassle for the law abiding who register, insure, tax and
MOT their cars the scumbags get away with it more often than not just
the same as they do now. The times that they stand a chance of beign
caught are when they commit offences that give a police officer cause to
check documents/VIN etc.

"Brimstone"  wrote in message
news:Xdudneu2fPfO1PrbnZ2dnUVZ8qWhnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "ib"  wrote in message
> news:EGF9i.20479$zL6.16261@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> >
> > "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:1hzb1st.ojkabg1wgq1deN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> >> Chris Hills  wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> In theory, with more cameras, it should be easier to detect
> >>> registrations that have likely been cloned (spotted in different
> >>> locations in a short space of time) and flag them for investigation.
> >>> However, that would involve actual work, so whether that will happen
or
> >>> not is to be seen.
> >>
> >> Err right, so ANPR shows a car with the same plates in Cumbria and
> >> London within an hour of each other. How do you determine which one is
> >> the clone?
> >>
> >> Look it up in the DVLA database, you find the registered keeper of the
> >> real plate lives in London. OK how does that help you? You now know
that
> >> there's a car with a cloned plate. You still don't know whch car
> >> (Cumbria or London) is the legal car - the owner could be on holiday in
> >> the Lakes for example - and the only person you can trace is hte real
> >> registered keeper. The cloner is still unknown.
> >>
> >> I don't think you've given this much thought.
> >
> > Don't you think it would provide some useful clues about cars / drivers
to
> > target for questioning?
>
> But you cn only "target" one vehicle, the one that's legit. The clone gets
> away. DOH!!!!

With ANPR in traffic cars, if the cloned number is flagged up on the
database then the car could get pulled next time it is out and about (as
could the legit car, of course).

On Jun 6, 5:16 pm, "Brimstone"  wrote:
> "Chris Hills"  wrote in message
>
> news:EqA9i.583$p8.123@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> > Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement systems
> > from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras to monitor
> > the capital's streets. As part of the change they are going to implement
> > automatic numberplate recognition software.
>
> > On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers with
> > no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down side there
> > is the possibility that the data could be used for some purpose in the
> > future (tracking..)
>
> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration plates
> belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?

Assuming that cloned cars are more likely to commit traffic related
offences then they are more likely to be spotted and the response of
the cloned driver to a NIP or  suchlike /could/be used to flag up the
cloned vehicle for a stop

best wishes
james

mt99999@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 6, 5:16 pm, "Brimstone"  wrote:
>> "Chris Hills"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:EqA9i.583$p8.123@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>>> Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement
>>> systems from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras
>>> to monitor the capital's streets. As part of the change they are
>>> going to implement automatic numberplate recognition software.
>>
>>> On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers
>>> with no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down
>>> side there is the possibility that the data could be used for some
>>> purpose in the future (tracking..)
>>
>> And what about all those driving around in cars with registration
>> plates belonging to a diifferent vehicle, i.e. "cloned"?
>
> Assuming that cloned cars are more likely to commit traffic related
> offences then they are more likely to be spotted and the response of
> the cloned driver to a NIP or  suchlike /could/be used to flag up the
> cloned vehicle for a stop

I suspect the 'cloners' rotate plates rather than stick with the one.....

" cupra"  wrote in message 
news:5cq31rF322cneU1@mid.individual.net...
> mt99999@hotmail.com wrote:

>>
>> Assuming that cloned cars are more likely to commit traffic related
>> offences then they are more likely to be spotted and the response of
>> the cloned driver to a NIP or  suchlike /could/be used to flag up the
>> cloned vehicle for a stop
>
> I suspect the 'cloners' rotate plates rather than stick with the one.....

Wasn't it ok for James Bond's DB5 to do this?

Paul

On Jun 7, 8:21 am, "PM" <pm@m_.com.invalid> wrote:
> With ANPR in traffic cars, if the cloned number is flagged up on the
> database then the car could get pulled next time it is out and about (as
> could the legit car, of course).

What traffic cars? I haven't seen one in years.

In any case, why should I have to be pissed around by the police
because someone else copied my number plate?

Oh, there's an idea: why don't we all copy number plates used by
politicians? Not only will we be safe from speed cameras, but any
traffic police who do exist will have to keep pulling them over to
check their documents.

      Mark

wrote in message
news:1181216490.118589.104410@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 7, 8:21 am, "PM" <pm@m_.com.invalid> wrote:
> > With ANPR in traffic cars, if the cloned number is flagged up on the
> > database then the car could get pulled next time it is out and about (as
> > could the legit car, of course).
>
> What traffic cars? I haven't seen one in years.
>
> In any case, why should I have to be pissed around by the police
> because someone else copied my number plate?
>
> Oh, there's an idea: why don't we all copy number plates used by
> politicians? Not only will we be safe from speed cameras, but any
> traffic police who do exist will have to keep pulling them over to
> check their documents.
>
>       Mark
>

I like that! Now to find an MP who drives an M reg Cavalier...

wrote:

> Assuming 

Indeed you are, hence your comment was pointless noise.

On 2007-06-06, Chris Hills  wrote:
> Transport for London (TfL) is switching its traffic enforcement systems
> from analogue to digital so it can use more mobile cameras to monitor
> the capital's streets. As part of the change they are going to implement
> automatic numberplate recognition software.
>
> On the good side it should help crack down on crime (e.g. drivers with
> no insurance, vehicles with no tax/mot etc), but on the down side there
> is the possibility that the data could be used for some purpose in the
> future (tracking..)

The future?

If they're paying for a London-wide digital ANRP system, I'm damn
sure they'll want to be able to track vehicles in real-time from the
moment the system is lauched.  It probably won't work correctly
for a while, but they'll probably get it eventually.

-- 
David Taylor

Chris Hills wrote:

> Transport for London (TfL) is swit