I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time, what
is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see the bus
before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the dimmer they
go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater, bulbs
will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit for
the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in

greyprimer wrote:
> I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time, what
> is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see the bus
> before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the dimmer they
> go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater, bulbs
> will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit for
> the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in
> 
> 

Could be Volvos - Headlights on all the time. As is legally required in 
northern Europe

Stagecoach Devon use them in pedestrian zones, you will often see the 
lights go on as they approach Exeter High Street

Arriva seem to have a policy on this, like I say it should be left to the
driver, after all he is in charge of the vehicle stagecoach do not seem to
have them on
"Mark B"  wrote in message
news:IcSdnfYOOoIGGc3bnZ2dnUVZ8tXinZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
> greyprimer wrote:
> > I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time,
what
> > is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see the
bus
> > before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the dimmer
they
> > go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater,
bulbs
> > will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit
for
> > the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in
> >
> >
>
> Could be Volvos - Headlights on all the time. As is legally required in
> northern Europe
>
> Stagecoach Devon use them in pedestrian zones, you will often see the
> lights go on as they approach Exeter High Street

"greyprimer"  wrote in message 
news:gO6dnXqZaaEx4M3bnZ2dnUVZ8qCqnZ2d@bt.com...
>I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time, 
>what
> is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see 
> the bus
> before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the 
> dimmer they
> go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater, 
> bulbs
> will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any 
> benefit for
> the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in
>

My understanding is that, one operator or depot within an operator ran 
this as a trial and reported a downturn in the number of 
accidents/incidents, this was then adopted as policy and seemingly 
many others have followed suit.
I suspect that any increase in costs for batteries, bulbs etc is more 
than outweighed by the likely insurance (and other) costs that might 
otherwise be incurred.

On Sun, 20 May 2007 17:56:08 +0100, "greyprimer"
 wrote:

>I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time, what
>is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see the bus
>before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the dimmer they
>go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater, bulbs
>will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit for
>the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in

This started with Greyhound in the USA, who found that the accident
rate fell dramatically when their buses ran with headlights on during
the day. I believe that LT specified that buses were to use headlights
when running in contraflow-bus-only lanes.

In some US states, headlights are compulsory when it is raining.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

"greyprimer"  wrote in message
news:gO6dnXqZaaEx4M3bnZ2dnUVZ8qCqnZ2d@bt.com
> I know some companies have a policy of using headlights
> all the time, what is the point. Most of the time the
> headlights are that dim, you see the bus before the
> lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the
> dimmer they go . More fuel will be used as well, more
> strain on the alternater, bulbs will go, batteries will
> get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit for the
> use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to
> pack in

It's a legal requirement in many inner cities to use headlights in 
predominantly pedestrianised areas. Many drivers would just switch the 
lights on and leave them on.

The thing that annoys me is using front foglamps when it isn't foggy. I 
know not many buses have them but our Mercedes O405N's do and some drivers 
seem to think they're extra headlights. They're not and they dazzle..!

Ivor

Arriva who basically self insure, found a survey where it was proven that 
running with headlights on 24/7 resulted in a 20% downturn in accidents. The 
company then wired all vehicles so that the headlights come on with the 
ignition. Other companies soon followed, and it is virtually standard 
practice in the real industry. (i.e. out side London)
D.R.

"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in message
news:NAa4i.27545$085.2597@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Arriva who basically self insure, found a survey where it was proven that
> running with headlights on 24/7 resulted in a 20% downturn in accidents.
The
> company then wired all vehicles so that the headlights come on with the
> ignition. Other companies soon followed, and it is virtually standard
> practice in the real industry. (i.e. out side London)
> D.R.
>
>

We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard practice

trams too !

On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:

> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard practice

I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
flashing them out...

That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards making daytime
running lights a requirement for all vehicles, so I suspect there is
something in it overall.

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:
> On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
> 
>> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
>> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard practice
> 
> I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
> flashing them out...
> 
> That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards making daytime
> running lights a requirement for all vehicles, so I suspect there is
> something in it overall.
> 
> Neil
> 

It would be a start if they even made dipped beam a legal requirment at 
night! I am sick of black cars driving round with just sidelights, one 
of which is often out.

Brian.

"Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in
message news:WnU4i.2085$zL6.1003@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net
> Neil Williams wrote:
> > On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
> >
> > > We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been
> > > said already, It was trialled and there were fewer
> > > accidents so it has become standard practice
> >
> > I have had people comment that they saw one and thought
> > the bus was flashing them out...
> >
> > That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards
> > making daytime running lights a requirement for all
> > vehicles, so I suspect there is something in it overall.
> >
> > Neil
> >
>
> It would be a start if they even made dipped beam a legal
> requirment at night! I am sick of black cars driving
> round with just sidelights, one of which is often out.

Never mind sidelights, it's front fogs instead of headlights that annoys 
me.

Ivor

"Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
news:1179906046.246235.214300@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
>
>> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
>> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard 
>> practice
>
> I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
> flashing them out...

This is indeed a danger, especially when the bus goes over a speed hump, it 
looks like a headlamp flash.
>

ian henden wrote:
> "Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
> news:1179906046.246235.214300@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
>>
>>> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
>>> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard 
>>> practice
>> I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
>> flashing them out...
> 
> This is indeed a danger, especially when the bus goes over a speed hump, it 
> looks like a headlamp flash.
> 
> 
That's why headlight flashing, according to the Highway Code, has the 
same meaning as sounding your horn,
but in the real world.....

Kevin

On May 23, 11:05 pm, "ian henden"  wrote:

> This is indeed a danger, especially when the bus goes over a speed hump, it
> looks like a headlamp flash.

This will only cease to be a problem when *everyone* uses daytime
running lights.  Until then it is a risk - but then the "obeying" of
an "illegal" signal such as a flash ceding priority is of course at
the risk of the person choosing to "obey" it.

Neil

This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the time, police seem to
ignore this now, but it is unlawful and police should stop it
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:5bjbdqF2t1cieU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in
> message news:WnU4i.2085$zL6.1003@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net
> > Neil Williams wrote:
> > > On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
> > >
> > > > We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been
> > > > said already, It was trialled and there were fewer
> > > > accidents so it has become standard practice
> > >
> > > I have had people comment that they saw one and thought
> > > the bus was flashing them out...
> > >
> > > That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards
> > > making daytime running lights a requirement for all
> > > vehicles, so I suspect there is something in it overall.
> > >
> > > Neil
> > >
> >
> > It would be a start if they even made dipped beam a legal
> > requirment at night! I am sick of black cars driving
> > round with just sidelights, one of which is often out.
>
> Never mind sidelights, it's front fogs instead of headlights that annoys
> me.
>
> Ivor
>
>

"greyprimer"  wrote in message
news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
> and police should stop it

Eh..?

-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?

Ivor Jones wrote:
> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>> and police should stop it
> 
> Eh..?
> 
He's on about the foglight brigade, & I agree with him 100%.
While they're at it, what about the high intensity rear light mob. The 
book says they are to be used *only* in daylight (i.e. between sunrise & 
sunset) in conditions of reduced visibility ( defined as less than 100 
metres), & are illegal to use at any other time.
I'd quote the paragraph in the highway code, but my copy's a good few 
hundred miles away at the moment.

The same applies to front foglights, with the added problem that the aim 
isn't checked in the MOT as far as I know.

Daylight running lights have a totally different illumination pattern & 
brightness level, & IMHO, they are a Good Idea.

Tciao for Now!

John.

OF COURSE YOU COULD JUST GET A LIFE AND FOLLOW THE THREADS DOWN READING THE 
FIRST COMMENT IN EACH POST AND HEY PRESTO THEY ARE IN SEQUENCE, OR IS THAT 
TOO DIFFICULT TO COMPREHEND?
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message 
news:5bnvptF2tg3eqU1@mid.individual.net...
> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>> and police should stop it
>
> Eh..?
>
> -- 
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?
>

"John Williamson"  wrote in message 
news:f3776i$4t7$1@stable.tornevall.net...
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
>> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>>> and police should stop it
>>
>> Eh..?
>>
> He's on about the foglight brigade, & I agree with him 100%.
> While they're at it, what about the high intensity rear light mob. The 
> book says they are to be used *only* in daylight (i.e. between sunrise & 
> sunset) in conditions of reduced visibility ( defined as less than 100 
> metres), & are illegal to use at any other time.
> I'd quote the paragraph in the highway code, but my copy's a good few 
> hundred miles away at the moment.
My copy is at my fingertips (you have a copy there. too).

Its at http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/08.htm#94

HTH

ian henden wrote:
> "John Williamson"  wrote in message 
> news:f3776i$4t7$1@stable.tornevall.net...
>> Ivor Jones wrote:
>>> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
>>> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>>>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>>>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>>>> and police should stop it
>>> Eh..?
>>>
>> He's on about the foglight brigade, & I agree with him 100%.
>> While they're at it, what about the high intensity rear light mob. The 
>> book says they are to be used *only* in daylight (i.e. between sunrise & 
>> sunset) in conditions of reduced visibility ( defined as less than 100 
>> metres), & are illegal to use at any other time.
>> I'd quote the paragraph in the highway code, but my copy's a good few 
>> hundred miles away at the moment.
> My copy is at my fingertips (you have a copy there. too).
> 
> Its at http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/08.htm#94
> 
Possibly I didn't explain correctly. My physical copy is about 500 miles 
away, my internet access is on pay per byte & very slow while I'm mobile:-)
Random searches aren't really something I want to pay for under the 
circumstances.

However, those rules cover what I was saying, with the exception that I 
remember a specific rule banning their use during the hours of darkness.
I've been wrong before, but rule 94 covers it:-)


Tciao for Now!

John.
> HTH
> 
> 
> 
>

"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
message news:qKI5i.64347$Ch.50472@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> OF COURSE YOU COULD JUST GET A LIFE AND FOLLOW THE
> THREADS DOWN READING THE FIRST COMMENT IN EACH POST AND
> HEY PRESTO THEY ARE IN SEQUENCE, OR IS THAT TOO DIFFICULT
> TO COMPREHEND?

Eh..? You'll have to speak up, I didn't hear you....

Ivor

is it any wonder there are so few people involved with this group with anal 
retentive's picking fault with their perceived rules and procedures rather 
than getting to the point of the post?

"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
message news:uo16i.55648$Ug.30876@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> is it any wonder there are so few people involved with
> this group with anal retentive's picking fault with their
> perceived rules and procedures rather than getting to the
> point of the post?


Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem wouldn't arise. This 
group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a minority, notably 
microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.

BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)

Ivor

In message , Ivor Jones 
<ivor@despammed.invalid> writes
>"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
>message news:uo16i.55648$Ug.30876@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk
>> is it any wonder there are so few people involved with
>> this group with anal retentive's picking fault with their
>> perceived rules and procedures rather than getting to the
>> point of the post?
>
>
>Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem wouldn't arise. This
>group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a minority, notably
>microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
>
>BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)

And he didn't bother to quote anything so I, for one haven't a clue what 
he's wibbling on about anyway.
-- 
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...
 
> Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem wouldn't arise. This 
> group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a minority, notably 
> microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
> 
> BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
> 
> Ivor
like I said anal retentive.

greyprimer wrote:
> I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time, what
> is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see the bus
> before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the dimmer they
> go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater, bulbs
> will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit for
> the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in
> 
> 

Could be Volvos - Headlights on all the time. As is legally required in 
northern Europe

Stagecoach Devon use them in pedestrian zones, you will often see the 
lights go on as they approach Exeter High Street

Arriva seem to have a policy on this, like I say it should be left to the
driver, after all he is in charge of the vehicle stagecoach do not seem to
have them on
"Mark B"  wrote in message
news:IcSdnfYOOoIGGc3bnZ2dnUVZ8tXinZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
> greyprimer wrote:
> > I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time,
what
> > is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see the
bus
> > before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the dimmer
they
> > go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater,
bulbs
> > will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit
for
> > the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in
> >
> >
>
> Could be Volvos - Headlights on all the time. As is legally required in
> northern Europe
>
> Stagecoach Devon use them in pedestrian zones, you will often see the
> lights go on as they approach Exeter High Street

"greyprimer"  wrote in message 
news:gO6dnXqZaaEx4M3bnZ2dnUVZ8qCqnZ2d@bt.com...
>I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time, 
>what
> is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see 
> the bus
> before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the 
> dimmer they
> go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater, 
> bulbs
> will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any 
> benefit for
> the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in
>

My understanding is that, one operator or depot within an operator ran 
this as a trial and reported a downturn in the number of 
accidents/incidents, this was then adopted as policy and seemingly 
many others have followed suit.
I suspect that any increase in costs for batteries, bulbs etc is more 
than outweighed by the likely insurance (and other) costs that might 
otherwise be incurred.

On Sun, 20 May 2007 17:56:08 +0100, "greyprimer"
 wrote:

>I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time, what
>is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see the bus
>before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the dimmer they
>go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater, bulbs
>will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit for
>the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in

This started with Greyhound in the USA, who found that the accident
rate fell dramatically when their buses ran with headlights on during
the day. I believe that LT specified that buses were to use headlights
when running in contraflow-bus-only lanes.

In some US states, headlights are compulsory when it is raining.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

"greyprimer"  wrote in message
news:gO6dnXqZaaEx4M3bnZ2dnUVZ8qCqnZ2d@bt.com
> I know some companies have a policy of using headlights
> all the time, what is the point. Most of the time the
> headlights are that dim, you see the bus before the
> lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the
> dimmer they go . More fuel will be used as well, more
> strain on the alternater, bulbs will go, batteries will
> get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit for the
> use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to
> pack in

It's a legal requirement in many inner cities to use headlights in 
predominantly pedestrianised areas. Many drivers would just switch the 
lights on and leave them on.

The thing that annoys me is using front foglamps when it isn't foggy. I 
know not many buses have them but our Mercedes O405N's do and some drivers 
seem to think they're extra headlights. They're not and they dazzle..!

Ivor

Arriva who basically self insure, found a survey where it was proven that 
running with headlights on 24/7 resulted in a 20% downturn in accidents. The 
company then wired all vehicles so that the headlights come on with the 
ignition. Other companies soon followed, and it is virtually standard 
practice in the real industry. (i.e. out side London)
D.R.

"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in message
news:NAa4i.27545$085.2597@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Arriva who basically self insure, found a survey where it was proven that
> running with headlights on 24/7 resulted in a 20% downturn in accidents.
The
> company then wired all vehicles so that the headlights come on with the
> ignition. Other companies soon followed, and it is virtually standard
> practice in the real industry. (i.e. out side London)
> D.R.
>
>

We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard practice

trams too !

On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:

> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard practice

I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
flashing them out...

That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards making daytime
running lights a requirement for all vehicles, so I suspect there is
something in it overall.

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:
> On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
> 
>> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
>> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard practice
> 
> I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
> flashing them out...
> 
> That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards making daytime
> running lights a requirement for all vehicles, so I suspect there is
> something in it overall.
> 
> Neil
> 

It would be a start if they even made dipped beam a legal requirment at 
night! I am sick of black cars driving round with just sidelights, one 
of which is often out.

Brian.

"Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in
message news:WnU4i.2085$zL6.1003@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net
> Neil Williams wrote:
> > On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
> >
> > > We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been
> > > said already, It was trialled and there were fewer
> > > accidents so it has become standard practice
> >
> > I have had people comment that they saw one and thought
> > the bus was flashing them out...
> >
> > That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards
> > making daytime running lights a requirement for all
> > vehicles, so I suspect there is something in it overall.
> >
> > Neil
> >
>
> It would be a start if they even made dipped beam a legal
> requirment at night! I am sick of black cars driving
> round with just sidelights, one of which is often out.

Never mind sidelights, it's front fogs instead of headlights that annoys 
me.

Ivor

"Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
news:1179906046.246235.214300@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
>
>> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
>> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard 
>> practice
>
> I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
> flashing them out...

This is indeed a danger, especially when the bus goes over a speed hump, it 
looks like a headlamp flash.
>

ian henden wrote:
> "Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
> news:1179906046.246235.214300@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
>>
>>> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
>>> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard 
>>> practice
>> I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
>> flashing them out...
> 
> This is indeed a danger, especially when the bus goes over a speed hump, it 
> looks like a headlamp flash.
> 
> 
That's why headlight flashing, according to the Highway Code, has the 
same meaning as sounding your horn,
but in the real world.....

Kevin

On May 23, 11:05 pm, "ian henden"  wrote:

> This is indeed a danger, especially when the bus goes over a speed hump, it
> looks like a headlamp flash.

This will only cease to be a problem when *everyone* uses daytime
running lights.  Until then it is a risk - but then the "obeying" of
an "illegal" signal such as a flash ceding priority is of course at
the risk of the person choosing to "obey" it.

Neil

This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the time, police seem to
ignore this now, but it is unlawful and police should stop it
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:5bjbdqF2t1cieU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in
> message news:WnU4i.2085$zL6.1003@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net
> > Neil Williams wrote:
> > > On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
> > >
> > > > We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been
> > > > said already, It was trialled and there were fewer
> > > > accidents so it has become standard practice
> > >
> > > I have had people comment that they saw one and thought
> > > the bus was flashing them out...
> > >
> > > That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards
> > > making daytime running lights a requirement for all
> > > vehicles, so I suspect there is something in it overall.
> > >
> > > Neil
> > >
> >
> > It would be a start if they even made dipped beam a legal
> > requirment at night! I am sick of black cars driving
> > round with just sidelights, one of which is often out.
>
> Never mind sidelights, it's front fogs instead of headlights that annoys
> me.
>
> Ivor
>
>

"greyprimer"  wrote in message
news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
> and police should stop it

Eh..?

-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?

Ivor Jones wrote:
> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>> and police should stop it
> 
> Eh..?
> 
He's on about the foglight brigade, & I agree with him 100%.
While they're at it, what about the high intensity rear light mob. The 
book says they are to be used *only* in daylight (i.e. between sunrise & 
sunset) in conditions of reduced visibility ( defined as less than 100 
metres), & are illegal to use at any other time.
I'd quote the paragraph in the highway code, but my copy's a good few 
hundred miles away at the moment.

The same applies to front foglights, with the added problem that the aim 
isn't checked in the MOT as far as I know.

Daylight running lights have a totally different illumination pattern & 
brightness level, & IMHO, they are a Good Idea.

Tciao for Now!

John.

OF COURSE YOU COULD JUST GET A LIFE AND FOLLOW THE THREADS DOWN READING THE 
FIRST COMMENT IN EACH POST AND HEY PRESTO THEY ARE IN SEQUENCE, OR IS THAT 
TOO DIFFICULT TO COMPREHEND?
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message 
news:5bnvptF2tg3eqU1@mid.individual.net...
> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>> and police should stop it
>
> Eh..?
>
> -- 
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?
>

"John Williamson"  wrote in message 
news:f3776i$4t7$1@stable.tornevall.net...
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
>> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>>> and police should stop it
>>
>> Eh..?
>>
> He's on about the foglight brigade, & I agree with him 100%.
> While they're at it, what about the high intensity rear light mob. The 
> book says they are to be used *only* in daylight (i.e. between sunrise & 
> sunset) in conditions of reduced visibility ( defined as less than 100 
> metres), & are illegal to use at any other time.
> I'd quote the paragraph in the highway code, but my copy's a good few 
> hundred miles away at the moment.
My copy is at my fingertips (you have a copy there. too).

Its at http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/08.htm#94

HTH

ian henden wrote:
> "John Williamson"  wrote in message 
> news:f3776i$4t7$1@stable.tornevall.net...
>> Ivor Jones wrote:
>>> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
>>> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>>>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>>>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>>>> and police should stop it
>>> Eh..?
>>>
>> He's on about the foglight brigade, & I agree with him 100%.
>> While they're at it, what about the high intensity rear light mob. The 
>> book says they are to be used *only* in daylight (i.e. between sunrise & 
>> sunset) in conditions of reduced visibility ( defined as less than 100 
>> metres), & are illegal to use at any other time.
>> I'd quote the paragraph in the highway code, but my copy's a good few 
>> hundred miles away at the moment.
> My copy is at my fingertips (you have a copy there. too).
> 
> Its at http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/08.htm#94
> 
Possibly I didn't explain correctly. My physical copy is about 500 miles 
away, my internet access is on pay per byte & very slow while I'm mobile:-)
Random searches aren't really something I want to pay for under the 
circumstances.

However, those rules cover what I was saying, with the exception that I 
remember a specific rule banning their use during the hours of darkness.
I've been wrong before, but rule 94 covers it:-)


Tciao for Now!

John.
> HTH
> 
> 
> 
>

"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
message news:qKI5i.64347$Ch.50472@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> OF COURSE YOU COULD JUST GET A LIFE AND FOLLOW THE
> THREADS DOWN READING THE FIRST COMMENT IN EACH POST AND
> HEY PRESTO THEY ARE IN SEQUENCE, OR IS THAT TOO DIFFICULT
> TO COMPREHEND?

Eh..? You'll have to speak up, I didn't hear you....

Ivor

is it any wonder there are so few people involved with this group with anal 
retentive's picking fault with their perceived rules and procedures rather 
than getting to the point of the post?

"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
message news:uo16i.55648$Ug.30876@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> is it any wonder there are so few people involved with
> this group with anal retentive's picking fault with their
> perceived rules and procedures rather than getting to the
> point of the post?


Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem wouldn't arise. This 
group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a minority, notably 
microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.

BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)

Ivor

In message , Ivor Jones 
<ivor@despammed.invalid> writes
>"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
>message news:uo16i.55648$Ug.30876@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk
>> is it any wonder there are so few people involved with
>> this group with anal retentive's picking fault with their
>> perceived rules and procedures rather than getting to the
>> point of the post?
>
>
>Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem wouldn't arise. This
>group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a minority, notably
>microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
>
>BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)

And he didn't bother to quote anything so I, for one haven't a clue what 
he's wibbling on about anyway.
-- 
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...
 
> Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem wouldn't arise. This 
> group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a minority, notably 
> microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
> 
> BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
> 
> Ivor
like I said anal retentive.

"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in message news:Ekd6i.56941$Ug.35366@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

  "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...

  > Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem wouldn't arise. This 
  > group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a minority, notably 
  > microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
  > 
  > BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
  > 
  > Ivor
  like I said anal retentive.

  Is that "Like", I said, "anal retentive"

  or is it
  Like I said "anal", retentive!

  And please don't give me black looks.

  ;o)

"ian henden"  wrote in message
news:mDm6i.12067$rQ4.8678@newsfe1-win.ntli.net
>   "Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
> message
> news:Ekd6i.56941$Ug.35366@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
>   "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...
>
>   > Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem
> wouldn't arise. This
>   > group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a
> minority, notably
>   > microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
>   >
>   > BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
>   >
>   > Ivor
>   like I said anal retentive.
>
>   Is that "Like", I said, "anal retentive"
>
>   or is it
>   Like I said "anal", retentive!
>
>   And please don't give me black looks.
>
>   ;o)

Hey, even anal orifices have their uses..! Think how you'd feel after a 
curry if you didn't have yours ;-)

Sorry, now we're *really* getting off topic, but I haven't got a clue how 
to get back on..!

Ivor

greyprimer wrote:
> I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time, what
> is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see the bus
> before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the dimmer they
> go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater, bulbs
> will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit for
> the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in
> 
> 

Could be Volvos - Headlights on all the time. As is legally required in 
northern Europe

Stagecoach Devon use them in pedestrian zones, you will often see the 
lights go on as they approach Exeter High Street

Arriva seem to have a policy on this, like I say it should be left to the
driver, after all he is in charge of the vehicle stagecoach do not seem to
have them on
"Mark B"  wrote in message
news:IcSdnfYOOoIGGc3bnZ2dnUVZ8tXinZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
> greyprimer wrote:
> > I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time,
what
> > is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see the
bus
> > before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the dimmer
they
> > go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater,
bulbs
> > will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit
for
> > the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in
> >
> >
>
> Could be Volvos - Headlights on all the time. As is legally required in
> northern Europe
>
> Stagecoach Devon use them in pedestrian zones, you will often see the
> lights go on as they approach Exeter High Street

"greyprimer"  wrote in message 
news:gO6dnXqZaaEx4M3bnZ2dnUVZ8qCqnZ2d@bt.com...
>I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time, 
>what
> is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see 
> the bus
> before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the 
> dimmer they
> go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater, 
> bulbs
> will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any 
> benefit for
> the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in
>

My understanding is that, one operator or depot within an operator ran 
this as a trial and reported a downturn in the number of 
accidents/incidents, this was then adopted as policy and seemingly 
many others have followed suit.
I suspect that any increase in costs for batteries, bulbs etc is more 
than outweighed by the likely insurance (and other) costs that might 
otherwise be incurred.

On Sun, 20 May 2007 17:56:08 +0100, "greyprimer"
 wrote:

>I know some companies have a policy of using headlights all the time, what
>is the point. Most of the time the headlights are that dim, you see the bus
>before the lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the dimmer they
>go . More fuel will be used as well, more strain on the alternater, bulbs
>will go, batteries will get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit for
>the use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to pack in

This started with Greyhound in the USA, who found that the accident
rate fell dramatically when their buses ran with headlights on during
the day. I believe that LT specified that buses were to use headlights
when running in contraflow-bus-only lanes.

In some US states, headlights are compulsory when it is raining.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

"greyprimer"  wrote in message
news:gO6dnXqZaaEx4M3bnZ2dnUVZ8qCqnZ2d@bt.com
> I know some companies have a policy of using headlights
> all the time, what is the point. Most of the time the
> headlights are that dim, you see the bus before the
> lights. Constant use delvelopes a resistance and the
> dimmer they go . More fuel will be used as well, more
> strain on the alternater, bulbs will go, batteries will
> get hot, there does not seem to be any benefit for the
> use after all if you cannot see a bus coming its time to
> pack in

It's a legal requirement in many inner cities to use headlights in 
predominantly pedestrianised areas. Many drivers would just switch the 
lights on and leave them on.

The thing that annoys me is using front foglamps when it isn't foggy. I 
know not many buses have them but our Mercedes O405N's do and some drivers 
seem to think they're extra headlights. They're not and they dazzle..!

Ivor

Arriva who basically self insure, found a survey where it was proven that 
running with headlights on 24/7 resulted in a 20% downturn in accidents. The 
company then wired all vehicles so that the headlights come on with the 
ignition. Other companies soon followed, and it is virtually standard 
practice in the real industry. (i.e. out side London)
D.R.

"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in message
news:NAa4i.27545$085.2597@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Arriva who basically self insure, found a survey where it was proven that
> running with headlights on 24/7 resulted in a 20% downturn in accidents.
The
> company then wired all vehicles so that the headlights come on with the
> ignition. Other companies soon followed, and it is virtually standard
> practice in the real industry. (i.e. out side London)
> D.R.
>
>

We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard practice

trams too !

On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:

> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard practice

I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
flashing them out...

That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards making daytime
running lights a requirement for all vehicles, so I suspect there is
something in it overall.

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:
> On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
> 
>> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
>> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard practice
> 
> I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
> flashing them out...
> 
> That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards making daytime
> running lights a requirement for all vehicles, so I suspect there is
> something in it overall.
> 
> Neil
> 

It would be a start if they even made dipped beam a legal requirment at 
night! I am sick of black cars driving round with just sidelights, one 
of which is often out.

Brian.

"Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in
message news:WnU4i.2085$zL6.1003@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net
> Neil Williams wrote:
> > On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
> >
> > > We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been
> > > said already, It was trialled and there were fewer
> > > accidents so it has become standard practice
> >
> > I have had people comment that they saw one and thought
> > the bus was flashing them out...
> >
> > That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards
> > making daytime running lights a requirement for all
> > vehicles, so I suspect there is something in it overall.
> >
> > Neil
> >
>
> It would be a start if they even made dipped beam a legal
> requirment at night! I am sick of black cars driving
> round with just sidelights, one of which is often out.

Never mind sidelights, it's front fogs instead of headlights that annoys 
me.

Ivor

"Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
news:1179906046.246235.214300@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
>
>> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
>> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard 
>> practice
>
> I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
> flashing them out...

This is indeed a danger, especially when the bus goes over a speed hump, it 
looks like a headlamp flash.
>

ian henden wrote:
> "Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
> news:1179906046.246235.214300@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
>>
>>> We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been said already, It was
>>> trialled and there were fewer accidents so it has become standard 
>>> practice
>> I have had people comment that they saw one and thought the bus was
>> flashing them out...
> 
> This is indeed a danger, especially when the bus goes over a speed hump, it 
> looks like a headlamp flash.
> 
> 
That's why headlight flashing, according to the Highway Code, has the 
same meaning as sounding your horn,
but in the real world.....

Kevin

On May 23, 11:05 pm, "ian henden"  wrote:

> This is indeed a danger, especially when the bus goes over a speed hump, it
> looks like a headlamp flash.

This will only cease to be a problem when *everyone* uses daytime
running lights.  Until then it is a risk - but then the "obeying" of
an "illegal" signal such as a flash ceding priority is of course at
the risk of the person choosing to "obey" it.

Neil

This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the time, police seem to
ignore this now, but it is unlawful and police should stop it
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:5bjbdqF2t1cieU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in
> message news:WnU4i.2085$zL6.1003@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net
> > Neil Williams wrote:
> > > On May 21, 12:23 pm, "Dave"  wrote:
> > >
> > > > We have them on here in blackpool. Like it has been
> > > > said already, It was trialled and there were fewer
> > > > accidents so it has become standard practice
> > >
> > > I have had people comment that they saw one and thought
> > > the bus was flashing them out...
> > >
> > > That said, the EU seems to be making moves towards
> > > making daytime running lights a requirement for all
> > > vehicles, so I suspect there is something in it overall.
> > >
> > > Neil
> > >
> >
> > It would be a start if they even made dipped beam a legal
> > requirment at night! I am sick of black cars driving
> > round with just sidelights, one of which is often out.
>
> Never mind sidelights, it's front fogs instead of headlights that annoys
> me.
>
> Ivor
>
>

"greyprimer"  wrote in message
news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
> and police should stop it

Eh..?

-- 
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?

Ivor Jones wrote:
> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>> and police should stop it
> 
> Eh..?
> 
He's on about the foglight brigade, & I agree with him 100%.
While they're at it, what about the high intensity rear light mob. The 
book says they are to be used *only* in daylight (i.e. between sunrise & 
sunset) in conditions of reduced visibility ( defined as less than 100 
metres), & are illegal to use at any other time.
I'd quote the paragraph in the highway code, but my copy's a good few 
hundred miles away at the moment.

The same applies to front foglights, with the added problem that the aim 
isn't checked in the MOT as far as I know.

Daylight running lights have a totally different illumination pattern & 
brightness level, & IMHO, they are a Good Idea.

Tciao for Now!

John.

OF COURSE YOU COULD JUST GET A LIFE AND FOLLOW THE THREADS DOWN READING THE 
FIRST COMMENT IN EACH POST AND HEY PRESTO THEY ARE IN SEQUENCE, OR IS THAT 
TOO DIFFICULT TO COMPREHEND?
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message 
news:5bnvptF2tg3eqU1@mid.individual.net...
> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>> and police should stop it
>
> Eh..?
>
> -- 
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?
>

"John Williamson"  wrote in message 
news:f3776i$4t7$1@stable.tornevall.net...
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
>> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>>> and police should stop it
>>
>> Eh..?
>>
> He's on about the foglight brigade, & I agree with him 100%.
> While they're at it, what about the high intensity rear light mob. The 
> book says they are to be used *only* in daylight (i.e. between sunrise & 
> sunset) in conditions of reduced visibility ( defined as less than 100 
> metres), & are illegal to use at any other time.
> I'd quote the paragraph in the highway code, but my copy's a good few 
> hundred miles away at the moment.
My copy is at my fingertips (you have a copy there. too).

Its at http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/08.htm#94

HTH

ian henden wrote:
> "John Williamson"  wrote in message 
> news:f3776i$4t7$1@stable.tornevall.net...
>> Ivor Jones wrote:
>>> "greyprimer"  wrote in message
>>> news:9MadnUilALInYcjbnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com
>>>> This also annoys me, some of them have them on all the
>>>> time, police seem to ignore this now, but it is unlawful
>>>> and police should stop it
>>> Eh..?
>>>
>> He's on about the foglight brigade, & I agree with him 100%.
>> While they're at it, what about the high intensity rear light mob. The 
>> book says they are to be used *only* in daylight (i.e. between sunrise & 
>> sunset) in conditions of reduced visibility ( defined as less than 100 
>> metres), & are illegal to use at any other time.
>> I'd quote the paragraph in the highway code, but my copy's a good few 
>> hundred miles away at the moment.
> My copy is at my fingertips (you have a copy there. too).
> 
> Its at http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/08.htm#94
> 
Possibly I didn't explain correctly. My physical copy is about 500 miles 
away, my internet access is on pay per byte & very slow while I'm mobile:-)
Random searches aren't really something I want to pay for under the 
circumstances.

However, those rules cover what I was saying, with the exception that I 
remember a specific rule banning their use during the hours of darkness.
I've been wrong before, but rule 94 covers it:-)


Tciao for Now!

John.
> HTH
> 
> 
> 
>

"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
message news:qKI5i.64347$Ch.50472@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> OF COURSE YOU COULD JUST GET A LIFE AND FOLLOW THE
> THREADS DOWN READING THE FIRST COMMENT IN EACH POST AND
> HEY PRESTO THEY ARE IN SEQUENCE, OR IS THAT TOO DIFFICULT
> TO COMPREHEND?

Eh..? You'll have to speak up, I didn't hear you....

Ivor

is it any wonder there are so few people involved with this group with anal 
retentive's picking fault with their perceived rules and procedures rather 
than getting to the point of the post?

"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
message news:uo16i.55648$Ug.30876@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> is it any wonder there are so few people involved with
> this group with anal retentive's picking fault with their
> perceived rules and procedures rather than getting to the
> point of the post?


Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem wouldn't arise. This 
group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a minority, notably 
microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.

BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)

Ivor

In message , Ivor Jones 
<ivor@despammed.invalid> writes
>"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
>message news:uo16i.55648$Ug.30876@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk
>> is it any wonder there are so few people involved with
>> this group with anal retentive's picking fault with their
>> perceived rules and procedures rather than getting to the
>> point of the post?
>
>
>Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem wouldn't arise. This
>group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a minority, notably
>microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
>
>BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)

And he didn't bother to quote anything so I, for one haven't a clue what 
he's wibbling on about anyway.
-- 
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...
 
> Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem wouldn't arise. This 
> group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a minority, notably 
> microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
> 
> BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
> 
> Ivor
like I said anal retentive.

"Duncan Robinson"  wrote in message news:Ekd6i.56941$Ug.35366@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

  "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...

  > Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem wouldn't arise. This 
  > group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a minority, notably 
  > microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
  > 
  > BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
  > 
  > Ivor
  like I said anal retentive.

  Is that "Like", I said, "anal retentive"

  or is it
  Like I said "anal", retentive!

  And please don't give me black looks.

  ;o)

On 27 May, 23:49, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "ian henden"  wrote in message
>
> news:mDm6i.12067$rQ4.8678@newsfe1-win.ntli.net
>
>
>
>
>
> >   "Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
> > message
> >news:Ekd6i.56941$Ug.35366@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> >   "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> >   > Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem
> > wouldn't arise. This
> >   > group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a
> > minority, notably
> >   > microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
>
> >   > BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
>
> >   > Ivor
> >   like I said anal retentive.
>
> >   Is that "Like", I said, "anal retentive"
>
> >   or is it
> >   Like I said "anal", retentive!
>
> >   And please don't give me black looks.
>
> >   ;o)
>
> Hey, even anal orifices have their uses..! Think how you'd feel after a
> curry if you didn't have yours ;-)
>
> Sorry, now we're *really* getting off topic, but I haven't got a clue how
> to get back on..!
>
After long experience of alt.games.mornington.cescent I'd say there
are two answers to that:
1) play Dollis Hill

2) take the  thread on from Volvo

3) give the thread up

Drat! thats three... (Spanish inquisition gambit)

On 27 May, 23:49, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "ian henden"  wrote in message
>
> news:mDm6i.12067$rQ4.8678@newsfe1-win.ntli.net
>
>
>
>
>
> >   "Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
> > message
> >news:Ekd6i.56941$Ug.35366@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> >   "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> >   > Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem
> > wouldn't arise. This
> >   > group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a
> > minority, notably
> >   > microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
>
> >   > BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
>
> >   > Ivor
> >   like I said anal retentive.
>
> >   Is that "Like", I said, "anal retentive"
>
> >   or is it
> >   Like I said "anal", retentive!
>
> >   And please don't give me black looks.
>
> >   ;o)
>
> Hey, even anal orifices have their uses..! Think how you'd feel after a
> curry if you didn't have yours ;-)
>
> Sorry, now we're *really* getting off topic, but I haven't got a clue how
> to get back on..!
>
After long experience of alt.games.mornington.cescent I'd say there
are two answers to that:
1) play Dollis Hill

2) take the  thread on from Volvo

3) give the thread up

Drat! thats three... (Spanish inquisition gambit)

On 27 May, 23:49, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "ian henden"  wrote in message
>
> news:mDm6i.12067$rQ4.8678@newsfe1-win.ntli.net
>
>
>
>
>
> >   "Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
> > message
> >news:Ekd6i.56941$Ug.35366@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> >   "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> >   > Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem
> > wouldn't arise. This
> >   > group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a
> > minority, notably
> >   > microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
>
> >   > BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
>
> >   > Ivor
> >   like I said anal retentive.
>
> >   Is that "Like", I said, "anal retentive"
>
> >   or is it
> >   Like I said "anal", retentive!
>
> >   And please don't give me black looks.
>
> >   ;o)
>
> Hey, even anal orifices have their uses..! Think how you'd feel after a
> curry if you didn't have yours ;-)
>
> Sorry, now we're *really* getting off topic, but I haven't got a clue how
> to get back on..!
>
After long experience of alt.games.mornington.cescent I'd say there
are two answers to that:
1) play Dollis Hill

2) take the  thread on from Volvo

3) give the thread up

Drat! thats three... (Spanish inquisition gambit)

On 27 May, 23:49, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "ian henden"  wrote in message
>
> news:mDm6i.12067$rQ4.8678@newsfe1-win.ntli.net
>
>
>
>
>
> >   "Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
> > message
> >news:Ekd6i.56941$Ug.35366@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> >   "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> >   > Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem
> > wouldn't arise. This
> >   > group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a
> > minority, notably
> >   > microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
>
> >   > BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
>
> >   > Ivor
> >   like I said anal retentive.
>
> >   Is that "Like", I said, "anal retentive"
>
> >   or is it
> >   Like I said "anal", retentive!
>
> >   And please don't give me black looks.
>
> >   ;o)
>
> Hey, even anal orifices have their uses..! Think how you'd feel after a
> curry if you didn't have yours ;-)
>
> Sorry, now we're *really* getting off topic, but I haven't got a clue how
> to get back on..!
>
After long experience of alt.games.mornington.cescent I'd say there
are two answers to that:
1) play Dollis Hill

2) take the  thread on from Volvo

3) give the thread up

Drat! thats three... (Spanish inquisition gambit)

On 27 May, 23:49, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "ian henden"  wrote in message
>
> news:mDm6i.12067$rQ4.8678@newsfe1-win.ntli.net
>
>
>
>
>
> >   "Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
> > message
> >news:Ekd6i.56941$Ug.35366@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> >   "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> >   > Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem
> > wouldn't arise. This
> >   > group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a
> > minority, notably
> >   > microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
>
> >   > BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
>
> >   > Ivor
> >   like I said anal retentive.
>
> >   Is that "Like", I said, "anal retentive"
>
> >   or is it
> >   Like I said "anal", retentive!
>
> >   And please don't give me black looks.
>
> >   ;o)
>
> Hey, even anal orifices have their uses..! Think how you'd feel after a
> curry if you didn't have yours ;-)
>
> Sorry, now we're *really* getting off topic, but I haven't got a clue how
> to get back on..!
>
After long experience of alt.games.mornington.cescent I'd say there
are two answers to that:
1) play Dollis Hill

2) take the  thread on from Volvo

3) give the thread up

Drat! thats three... (Spanish inquisition gambit)

On 27 May, 23:49, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "ian henden"  wrote in message
>
> news:mDm6i.12067$rQ4.8678@newsfe1-win.ntli.net
>
>
>
>
>
> >   "Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
> > message
> >news:Ekd6i.56941$Ug.35366@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> >   "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:5brp3kF2t4615U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> >   > Follow the accepted group procedures and this problem
> > wouldn't arise. This
> >   > group does not, as a rule, use top posting. Some (a
> > minority, notably
> >   > microsoft groups) do, but this isn't one of them.
>
> >   > BTW you put an apostrophe in the wrong place there ;-)
>
> >   > Ivor
> >   like I said anal retentive.
>
> >   Is that "Like", I said, "anal retentive"
>
> >   or is it
> >   Like I said "anal", retentive!
>
> >   And please don't give me black looks.
>
> >   ;o)
>
> Hey, even anal orifices have their uses..! Think how you'd feel after a
> curry if you didn't have yours ;-)
>
> Sorry, now we're *really* getting off topic, but I haven't got a clue how
> to get back on..!
>
After long experience of alt.games.mornington.cescent I'd say there
are two answers to that:
1) play Dollis Hill

2) take the  thread on from Volvo

3) give the thread up

Drat! thats three... (Spanish inquisition gambit)

On 27 May, 23:49, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "ian henden"  wrote in message
>
> news:mDm6i.12067$rQ4.8678@newsfe1-win.ntli.net
>
>
>
>
>
> >   "Duncan Robinson"  wrote in
> > message
> >news:Ekd6i.56941$Ug.35366@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> >   "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:5brp3kF2