as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to understand other road
users attitude to us as bus drivers,why do they try and cut you up,why
do they have to get past you at all costs,to themselves and their
passengers,car drivers in the latter,you enter a bend and there is
someone driving on your inside,buses are 10 metres long and the new
bendies 18 metres long.To my mind bus lanes should be 24 hours,no
entry by any other user except emergency vehicles etc. the police,fire
and ambulances,no not even taxi,s,they are a real big pain,stop where
they want,they should have their own taxi stops,ranks as they were
called.The operators of buses CUT THE TIME GIVEN TO GET FROM A TO B AS
THE TIME OF DAY CLOSES,But it is always busy even into night fall
because London is a 24 hour city.ALSO i would like to know from
anyone,does everyone that drives on british roads have to undergo our
driving tests as we drive on the left and everone in europe drives on
the right,i sometimes think that is why there are such bad drivers on
the roads unless they are auditioning for Police camera action as
shown on tv.One last thing what ever happened to the
words,patience,courtesy and manners,have they dissapeared from the
british vocation.

driver844@googlemail.com wrote:
> as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to understand other road
> users attitude to us as bus drivers,why do they try and cut you up,why
> do they have to get past you at all costs,to themselves and their
> passengers,car drivers in the latter,you enter a bend and there is
> someone driving on your inside,buses are 10 metres long and the new
> bendies 18 metres long.To my mind bus lanes should be 24 hours,no
> entry by any other user except emergency vehicles etc. the police,fire
> and ambulances,no not even taxi,s,they are a real big pain,stop where
> they want,they should have their own taxi stops,ranks as they were
> called.The operators of buses CUT THE TIME GIVEN TO GET FROM A TO B AS
> THE TIME OF DAY CLOSES,But it is always busy even into night fall
> because London is a 24 hour city.ALSO i would like to know from
> anyone,does everyone that drives on british roads have to undergo our
> driving tests as we drive on the left and everone in europe drives on
> the right,i sometimes think that is why there are such bad drivers on
> the roads unless they are auditioning for Police camera action as
> shown on tv.One last thing what ever happened to the
> words,patience,courtesy and manners,have they dissapeared from the
> british vocation.
> 

People hate bus drivers, but if they only opened their eyes they would 
find us to be some of the most considerate road users around. You are 
far more likely to have a bus let you out of a junction than another 
car, for instance.

Brian.

wrote in message
news:1176631912.835466.208930@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com
> as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to
> understand other road users attitude to us as bus
> drivers,why do they try and cut you up,why do they have
> to get past you at all costs

Because they're driving a car and you're driving a bus.

It really *is* that simple.

Oh and it's not confined to London, either.


Ivor

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:46:18 GMT, Brian Robertson
<brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote:

>People hate bus drivers, but if they only opened their eyes they would 
>find us to be some of the most considerate road users around. You are 
>far more likely to have a bus let you out of a junction than another 
>car, for instance.

I would certainly agree with this, however there is the odd bad apple
that spoils it for everyone, and unfortunately those are the ones
people remember.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Ivor Jones wrote:

> Because they're driving a car and you're driving a bus.
> It really *is* that simple.
> Oh and it's not confined to London, either.

Nor is it confined to buses.
-- 
  Chris Johns

On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com wrote:

>as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to understand other road
>users attitude to us as bus drivers,why do they try and cut you up,

Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their right turn
indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop  without even checking
for any vehicle about to or is in the process of overtaking them.
Many of the drivers employed by a local company are always doing this,
I can see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for a new
horn for my car shortly.

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:46:18 GMT, Brian Robertson
<brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote:


>People hate bus drivers, but if they only opened their eyes they would 
>find us to be some of the most considerate road users around.
Used to be when I was driving Brian but not for the most part anymore
and basically OMO is causing most of the bad inconsiderate driving on
the part of bus drivers these days due to drivers have to do the jobs
of TWO people .

wrote in message
news:1hqm23154j42o3bqvbptts2v00do8fkoio@4ax.com
> On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
> > as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to
> > understand other road users attitude to us as bus
> > drivers,why do they try and cut you up,
>
> Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their
> right turn indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop
> without even checking for any vehicle about to or is in
> the process of overtaking them. Many of the drivers
> employed by a local company are always doing this, I can
> see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for
> a new horn for my car shortly.

More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
getting on or off.

Ivor

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:



>More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>getting on or off.

If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
TAUGHT TO DO .
Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
week .

wrote in message
news:626n23h21mbuqp5kk7ap8aik7eld51jnaj@4ax.com
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

> > More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do
> > you check to see if passengers are boarding or
> > alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know it is going
> > to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers
> > actually getting on or off.
>
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city
> it would put at least 10 minutes on to my journey time ,

Gosh. Try starting out 10 minutes earlier then..!

> we didn't have any of these problems back in the sixties
> when I was driving buses we always checked our mirrors
> before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE TAUGHT TO DO

Has..?

> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses

Tried driving standing up recently..?!

> just like we where only difference today being they are
> being paid around 50 times more for doing it come to
> think about it probably 100 times more. How does £ 11.50
> sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour week

I wouldn't pay you that for a month.

Ivor

clavox@btinternet.com wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>> if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>> it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>> getting on or off.
> 
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
> at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
> these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
> checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
> TAUGHT TO DO .
> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
> where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
> more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
> How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
> week .
I'll bite....
In the 60's & to a lesser extent in the 70's, there were a fraction of 
the number of vehicles on the road, which meant the traffic was a lot 
lighter.
Car drivers (All drivers, in fact) were more willing to give way to 
other road users.
The driver was normally only doing one job, not two.

I'll also bet that the modern driver *is* looking in his mirrors when he 
pulls out, but pulls out gently in order to drop a hint to following 
drivers that he would like to go now, please :-)

My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
of the average run.

It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
ever did then.

<Rant over>:-)

I'm glad I drive coaches....

Tciao for Now!

John.

On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com wrote:

>as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to understand other road
>users attitude to us as bus drivers,why do they try and cut you up,

Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their right turn
indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop  without even checking
for any vehicle about to or is in the process of overtaking them.
Many of the drivers employed by a local company are always doing this,
I can see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for a new
horn for my car shortly.

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:46:18 GMT, Brian Robertson
<brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote:


>People hate bus drivers, but if they only opened their eyes they would 
>find us to be some of the most considerate road users around.
Used to be when I was driving Brian but not for the most part anymore
and basically OMO is causing most of the bad inconsiderate driving on
the part of bus drivers these days due to drivers have to do the jobs
of TWO people .

wrote in message
news:1hqm23154j42o3bqvbptts2v00do8fkoio@4ax.com
> On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
> > as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to
> > understand other road users attitude to us as bus
> > drivers,why do they try and cut you up,
>
> Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their
> right turn indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop
> without even checking for any vehicle about to or is in
> the process of overtaking them. Many of the drivers
> employed by a local company are always doing this, I can
> see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for
> a new horn for my car shortly.

More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
getting on or off.

Ivor

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:



>More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>getting on or off.

If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
TAUGHT TO DO .
Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
week .

wrote in message
news:626n23h21mbuqp5kk7ap8aik7eld51jnaj@4ax.com
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

> > More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do
> > you check to see if passengers are boarding or
> > alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know it is going
> > to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers
> > actually getting on or off.
>
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city
> it would put at least 10 minutes on to my journey time ,

Gosh. Try starting out 10 minutes earlier then..!

> we didn't have any of these problems back in the sixties
> when I was driving buses we always checked our mirrors
> before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE TAUGHT TO DO

Has..?

> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses

Tried driving standing up recently..?!

> just like we where only difference today being they are
> being paid around 50 times more for doing it come to
> think about it probably 100 times more. How does £ 11.50
> sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour week

I wouldn't pay you that for a month.

Ivor

clavox@btinternet.com wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>> if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>> it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>> getting on or off.
> 
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
> at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
> these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
> checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
> TAUGHT TO DO .
> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
> where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
> more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
> How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
> week .
I'll bite....
In the 60's & to a lesser extent in the 70's, there were a fraction of 
the number of vehicles on the road, which meant the traffic was a lot 
lighter.
Car drivers (All drivers, in fact) were more willing to give way to 
other road users.
The driver was normally only doing one job, not two.

I'll also bet that the modern driver *is* looking in his mirrors when he 
pulls out, but pulls out gently in order to drop a hint to following 
drivers that he would like to go now, please :-)

My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
of the average run.

It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
ever did then.

<Rant over>:-)

I'm glad I drive coaches....

Tciao for Now!

John.

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
 wrote:

>My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
>sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
>out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
>Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
>of the average run.

Which means the timetable is faulty.  Timetables should be realistic
for the route at the time of day, and equally drivers should wait for
time (a major problem in Milton Keynes where you get a lot of early
running in the evenings) if they need to do so to adhere to it.

>It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

Most parts of Europe are far more enlightened as far as bus operations
go, with well-designed bus lanes, overtaking opportunities at traffic
lights and properly-designed stops.  When my regular Monday and Friday
bus was diverted due to roadworks for a couple of weeks (the 39/45
from Leiden to Den Haag) about 15 minutes were added to the journey
even though no distance was added.  This was because the diversionary
route didn't allow for that infrastructure.

>As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
>drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
>in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should be considered,
and paid as, a skilled, professional role, as indeed it is in Germany,
the Netherlands etc, and not a job of last resort as it is for many.

>Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
>ever did then.

This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well, as I have
never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere else.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams"  wrote in
message news:462bcfc7.83792203@news.individual.net
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
>  wrote:

[snip]

> IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should
> be considered, and paid as, a skilled, professional role,
> as indeed it is in Germany, the Netherlands etc, and not
> a job of last resort as it is for many.

In the States, they are considered to be Federal employees. An assault on 
a bus driver carries the same penalty as on a police officer.

> > Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the
> > public than they ever did then.
>
> This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well,
> as I have never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere
> else.

Not that they do any good. A colleague of mine was dragged out of his cab 
a few years ago after three yobs had battered down the screen. They then 
proceeded to kick 7 bells out of him, breaking three ribs. AFAIK he hasn't 
worked since.

Ivor

On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com wrote:

>as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to understand other road
>users attitude to us as bus drivers,why do they try and cut you up,

Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their right turn
indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop  without even checking
for any vehicle about to or is in the process of overtaking them.
Many of the drivers employed by a local company are always doing this,
I can see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for a new
horn for my car shortly.

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:46:18 GMT, Brian Robertson
<brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote:


>People hate bus drivers, but if they only opened their eyes they would 
>find us to be some of the most considerate road users around.
Used to be when I was driving Brian but not for the most part anymore
and basically OMO is causing most of the bad inconsiderate driving on
the part of bus drivers these days due to drivers have to do the jobs
of TWO people .

wrote in message
news:1hqm23154j42o3bqvbptts2v00do8fkoio@4ax.com
> On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
> > as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to
> > understand other road users attitude to us as bus
> > drivers,why do they try and cut you up,
>
> Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their
> right turn indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop
> without even checking for any vehicle about to or is in
> the process of overtaking them. Many of the drivers
> employed by a local company are always doing this, I can
> see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for
> a new horn for my car shortly.

More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
getting on or off.

Ivor

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:



>More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>getting on or off.

If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
TAUGHT TO DO .
Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
week .

wrote in message
news:626n23h21mbuqp5kk7ap8aik7eld51jnaj@4ax.com
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

> > More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do
> > you check to see if passengers are boarding or
> > alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know it is going
> > to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers
> > actually getting on or off.
>
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city
> it would put at least 10 minutes on to my journey time ,

Gosh. Try starting out 10 minutes earlier then..!

> we didn't have any of these problems back in the sixties
> when I was driving buses we always checked our mirrors
> before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE TAUGHT TO DO

Has..?

> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses

Tried driving standing up recently..?!

> just like we where only difference today being they are
> being paid around 50 times more for doing it come to
> think about it probably 100 times more. How does £ 11.50
> sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour week

I wouldn't pay you that for a month.

Ivor

clavox@btinternet.com wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>> if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>> it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>> getting on or off.
> 
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
> at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
> these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
> checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
> TAUGHT TO DO .
> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
> where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
> more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
> How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
> week .
I'll bite....
In the 60's & to a lesser extent in the 70's, there were a fraction of 
the number of vehicles on the road, which meant the traffic was a lot 
lighter.
Car drivers (All drivers, in fact) were more willing to give way to 
other road users.
The driver was normally only doing one job, not two.

I'll also bet that the modern driver *is* looking in his mirrors when he 
pulls out, but pulls out gently in order to drop a hint to following 
drivers that he would like to go now, please :-)

My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
of the average run.

It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
ever did then.

<Rant over>:-)

I'm glad I drive coaches....

Tciao for Now!

John.

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
 wrote:

>My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
>sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
>out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
>Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
>of the average run.

Which means the timetable is faulty.  Timetables should be realistic
for the route at the time of day, and equally drivers should wait for
time (a major problem in Milton Keynes where you get a lot of early
running in the evenings) if they need to do so to adhere to it.

>It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

Most parts of Europe are far more enlightened as far as bus operations
go, with well-designed bus lanes, overtaking opportunities at traffic
lights and properly-designed stops.  When my regular Monday and Friday
bus was diverted due to roadworks for a couple of weeks (the 39/45
from Leiden to Den Haag) about 15 minutes were added to the journey
even though no distance was added.  This was because the diversionary
route didn't allow for that infrastructure.

>As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
>drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
>in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should be considered,
and paid as, a skilled, professional role, as indeed it is in Germany,
the Netherlands etc, and not a job of last resort as it is for many.

>Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
>ever did then.

This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well, as I have
never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere else.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams"  wrote in
message news:462bcfc7.83792203@news.individual.net
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
>  wrote:

[snip]

> IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should
> be considered, and paid as, a skilled, professional role,
> as indeed it is in Germany, the Netherlands etc, and not
> a job of last resort as it is for many.

In the States, they are considered to be Federal employees. An assault on 
a bus driver carries the same penalty as on a police officer.

> > Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the
> > public than they ever did then.
>
> This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well,
> as I have never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere
> else.

Not that they do any good. A colleague of mine was dragged out of his cab 
a few years ago after three yobs had battered down the screen. They then 
proceeded to kick 7 bells out of him, breaking three ribs. AFAIK he hasn't 
worked since.

Ivor

On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com wrote:

>as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to understand other road
>users attitude to us as bus drivers,why do they try and cut you up,

Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their right turn
indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop  without even checking
for any vehicle about to or is in the process of overtaking them.
Many of the drivers employed by a local company are always doing this,
I can see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for a new
horn for my car shortly.

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:46:18 GMT, Brian Robertson
<brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote:


>People hate bus drivers, but if they only opened their eyes they would 
>find us to be some of the most considerate road users around.
Used to be when I was driving Brian but not for the most part anymore
and basically OMO is causing most of the bad inconsiderate driving on
the part of bus drivers these days due to drivers have to do the jobs
of TWO people .

wrote in message
news:1hqm23154j42o3bqvbptts2v00do8fkoio@4ax.com
> On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
> > as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to
> > understand other road users attitude to us as bus
> > drivers,why do they try and cut you up,
>
> Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their
> right turn indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop
> without even checking for any vehicle about to or is in
> the process of overtaking them. Many of the drivers
> employed by a local company are always doing this, I can
> see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for
> a new horn for my car shortly.

More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
getting on or off.

Ivor

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:



>More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>getting on or off.

If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
TAUGHT TO DO .
Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
week .

wrote in message
news:626n23h21mbuqp5kk7ap8aik7eld51jnaj@4ax.com
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

> > More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do
> > you check to see if passengers are boarding or
> > alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know it is going
> > to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers
> > actually getting on or off.
>
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city
> it would put at least 10 minutes on to my journey time ,

Gosh. Try starting out 10 minutes earlier then..!

> we didn't have any of these problems back in the sixties
> when I was driving buses we always checked our mirrors
> before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE TAUGHT TO DO

Has..?

> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses

Tried driving standing up recently..?!

> just like we where only difference today being they are
> being paid around 50 times more for doing it come to
> think about it probably 100 times more. How does £ 11.50
> sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour week

I wouldn't pay you that for a month.

Ivor

clavox@btinternet.com wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>> if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>> it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>> getting on or off.
> 
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
> at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
> these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
> checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
> TAUGHT TO DO .
> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
> where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
> more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
> How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
> week .
I'll bite....
In the 60's & to a lesser extent in the 70's, there were a fraction of 
the number of vehicles on the road, which meant the traffic was a lot 
lighter.
Car drivers (All drivers, in fact) were more willing to give way to 
other road users.
The driver was normally only doing one job, not two.

I'll also bet that the modern driver *is* looking in his mirrors when he 
pulls out, but pulls out gently in order to drop a hint to following 
drivers that he would like to go now, please :-)

My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
of the average run.

It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
ever did then.

<Rant over>:-)

I'm glad I drive coaches....

Tciao for Now!

John.

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
 wrote:

>My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
>sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
>out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
>Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
>of the average run.

Which means the timetable is faulty.  Timetables should be realistic
for the route at the time of day, and equally drivers should wait for
time (a major problem in Milton Keynes where you get a lot of early
running in the evenings) if they need to do so to adhere to it.

>It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

Most parts of Europe are far more enlightened as far as bus operations
go, with well-designed bus lanes, overtaking opportunities at traffic
lights and properly-designed stops.  When my regular Monday and Friday
bus was diverted due to roadworks for a couple of weeks (the 39/45
from Leiden to Den Haag) about 15 minutes were added to the journey
even though no distance was added.  This was because the diversionary
route didn't allow for that infrastructure.

>As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
>drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
>in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should be considered,
and paid as, a skilled, professional role, as indeed it is in Germany,
the Netherlands etc, and not a job of last resort as it is for many.

>Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
>ever did then.

This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well, as I have
never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere else.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams"  wrote in
message news:462bcfc7.83792203@news.individual.net
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
>  wrote:

[snip]

> IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should
> be considered, and paid as, a skilled, professional role,
> as indeed it is in Germany, the Netherlands etc, and not
> a job of last resort as it is for many.

In the States, they are considered to be Federal employees. An assault on 
a bus driver carries the same penalty as on a police officer.

> > Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the
> > public than they ever did then.
>
> This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well,
> as I have never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere
> else.

Not that they do any good. A colleague of mine was dragged out of his cab 
a few years ago after three yobs had battered down the screen. They then 
proceeded to kick 7 bells out of him, breaking three ribs. AFAIK he hasn't 
worked since.

Ivor

clavox@btinternet.com wrote in
news:626n23h21mbuqp5kk7ap8aik7eld51jnaj@4ax.com: 

> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to
>>see if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop
>>you know it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see
>>passengers actually getting on or off.
> 
> 
Try reading the highway code and you will see why we do it. If people 
adhered to the rules we would not have to be as assertive. 

198: Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can 
do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops. Look out 
for people getting off a bus or tram and crossing the road.

On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com wrote:

>as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to understand other road
>users attitude to us as bus drivers,why do they try and cut you up,

Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their right turn
indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop  without even checking
for any vehicle about to or is in the process of overtaking them.
Many of the drivers employed by a local company are always doing this,
I can see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for a new
horn for my car shortly.

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:46:18 GMT, Brian Robertson
<brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote:


>People hate bus drivers, but if they only opened their eyes they would 
>find us to be some of the most considerate road users around.
Used to be when I was driving Brian but not for the most part anymore
and basically OMO is causing most of the bad inconsiderate driving on
the part of bus drivers these days due to drivers have to do the jobs
of TWO people .

wrote in message
news:1hqm23154j42o3bqvbptts2v00do8fkoio@4ax.com
> On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
> > as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to
> > understand other road users attitude to us as bus
> > drivers,why do they try and cut you up,
>
> Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their
> right turn indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop
> without even checking for any vehicle about to or is in
> the process of overtaking them. Many of the drivers
> employed by a local company are always doing this, I can
> see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for
> a new horn for my car shortly.

More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
getting on or off.

Ivor

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:



>More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>getting on or off.

If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
TAUGHT TO DO .
Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
week .

wrote in message
news:626n23h21mbuqp5kk7ap8aik7eld51jnaj@4ax.com
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

> > More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do
> > you check to see if passengers are boarding or
> > alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know it is going
> > to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers
> > actually getting on or off.
>
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city
> it would put at least 10 minutes on to my journey time ,

Gosh. Try starting out 10 minutes earlier then..!

> we didn't have any of these problems back in the sixties
> when I was driving buses we always checked our mirrors
> before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE TAUGHT TO DO

Has..?

> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses

Tried driving standing up recently..?!

> just like we where only difference today being they are
> being paid around 50 times more for doing it come to
> think about it probably 100 times more. How does £ 11.50
> sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour week

I wouldn't pay you that for a month.

Ivor

clavox@btinternet.com wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>> if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>> it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>> getting on or off.
> 
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
> at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
> these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
> checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
> TAUGHT TO DO .
> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
> where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
> more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
> How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
> week .
I'll bite....
In the 60's & to a lesser extent in the 70's, there were a fraction of 
the number of vehicles on the road, which meant the traffic was a lot 
lighter.
Car drivers (All drivers, in fact) were more willing to give way to 
other road users.
The driver was normally only doing one job, not two.

I'll also bet that the modern driver *is* looking in his mirrors when he 
pulls out, but pulls out gently in order to drop a hint to following 
drivers that he would like to go now, please :-)

My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
of the average run.

It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
ever did then.

<Rant over>:-)

I'm glad I drive coaches....

Tciao for Now!

John.

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
 wrote:

>My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
>sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
>out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
>Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
>of the average run.

Which means the timetable is faulty.  Timetables should be realistic
for the route at the time of day, and equally drivers should wait for
time (a major problem in Milton Keynes where you get a lot of early
running in the evenings) if they need to do so to adhere to it.

>It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

Most parts of Europe are far more enlightened as far as bus operations
go, with well-designed bus lanes, overtaking opportunities at traffic
lights and properly-designed stops.  When my regular Monday and Friday
bus was diverted due to roadworks for a couple of weeks (the 39/45
from Leiden to Den Haag) about 15 minutes were added to the journey
even though no distance was added.  This was because the diversionary
route didn't allow for that infrastructure.

>As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
>drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
>in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should be considered,
and paid as, a skilled, professional role, as indeed it is in Germany,
the Netherlands etc, and not a job of last resort as it is for many.

>Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
>ever did then.

This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well, as I have
never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere else.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams"  wrote in
message news:462bcfc7.83792203@news.individual.net
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
>  wrote:

[snip]

> IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should
> be considered, and paid as, a skilled, professional role,
> as indeed it is in Germany, the Netherlands etc, and not
> a job of last resort as it is for many.

In the States, they are considered to be Federal employees. An assault on 
a bus driver carries the same penalty as on a police officer.

> > Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the
> > public than they ever did then.
>
> This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well,
> as I have never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere
> else.

Not that they do any good. A colleague of mine was dragged out of his cab 
a few years ago after three yobs had battered down the screen. They then 
proceeded to kick 7 bells out of him, breaking three ribs. AFAIK he hasn't 
worked since.

Ivor

clavox@btinternet.com wrote in
news:626n23h21mbuqp5kk7ap8aik7eld51jnaj@4ax.com: 

> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to
>>see if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop
>>you know it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see
>>passengers actually getting on or off.
> 
> 
Try reading the highway code and you will see why we do it. If people 
adhered to the rules we would not have to be as assertive. 

198: Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can 
do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops. Look out 
for people getting off a bus or tram and crossing the road.

Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Neil Williams"  wrote in
> message news:462bcfc7.83792203@news.individual.net
>> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
>>  wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should
>> be considered, and paid as, a skilled, professional role,
>> as indeed it is in Germany, the Netherlands etc, and not
>> a job of last resort as it is for many.

One thing they have that we don't generally have here is a formal career 
structure. The new Certificate of Professional Competence they're 
introducing for drivers *could* be a way into that sort of system here.
> 
> In the States, they are considered to be Federal employees. An assault on 
> a bus driver carries the same penalty as on a police officer.
> 
That would be a good idea.

>>> Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the
>>> public than they ever did then.
>> This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well,
>> as I have never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere
>> else.
> 
> Not that they do any good. A colleague of mine was dragged out of his cab 
> a few years ago after three yobs had battered down the screen. They then 
> proceeded to kick 7 bells out of him, breaking three ribs. AFAIK he hasn't 
> worked since.
> 
That's the sort of thing that really put me off working on LT long ago. 
Talking to their drivers in the 80's & 90's, it seemed that every week 
each garage had a driver or conductor put in hospital by being attacked. 
I lost touch with London a while ago when I escaped to Stoke on Trent.

Tciao for Now!

John.

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:19:50 +0100, John Williamson
 wrote:


>One thing they have that we don't generally have here is a formal career 
>structure. The new Certificate of Professional Competence they're 
>introducing for drivers *could* be a way into that sort of system here.

Well the red and white badge with PSV driver plus number and green and
white with conductor and number where good enough for us so it should
be good enough now . 

>That's the sort of thing that really put me off working on LT long ago. 
>Talking to their drivers in the 80's & 90's, it seemed that every week 
>each garage had a driver or conductor put in hospital by being attacked. 
>I lost touch with London a while ago when I escaped to Stoke on Trent.

Never happened to staff up here John but there where no mamby pamby
magistrates dishing out ASBO's and suspended sentences back then, in
those days it was either a very stiff fine or clink .

On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com wrote:

>as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to understand other road
>users attitude to us as bus drivers,why do they try and cut you up,

Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their right turn
indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop  without even checking
for any vehicle about to or is in the process of overtaking them.
Many of the drivers employed by a local company are always doing this,
I can see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for a new
horn for my car shortly.

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:46:18 GMT, Brian Robertson
<brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote:


>People hate bus drivers, but if they only opened their eyes they would 
>find us to be some of the most considerate road users around.
Used to be when I was driving Brian but not for the most part anymore
and basically OMO is causing most of the bad inconsiderate driving on
the part of bus drivers these days due to drivers have to do the jobs
of TWO people .

wrote in message
news:1hqm23154j42o3bqvbptts2v00do8fkoio@4ax.com
> On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
> > as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to
> > understand other road users attitude to us as bus
> > drivers,why do they try and cut you up,
>
> Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their
> right turn indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop
> without even checking for any vehicle about to or is in
> the process of overtaking them. Many of the drivers
> employed by a local company are always doing this, I can
> see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for
> a new horn for my car shortly.

More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
getting on or off.

Ivor

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:



>More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>getting on or off.

If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
TAUGHT TO DO .
Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
week .

wrote in message
news:626n23h21mbuqp5kk7ap8aik7eld51jnaj@4ax.com
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

> > More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do
> > you check to see if passengers are boarding or
> > alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know it is going
> > to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers
> > actually getting on or off.
>
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city
> it would put at least 10 minutes on to my journey time ,

Gosh. Try starting out 10 minutes earlier then..!

> we didn't have any of these problems back in the sixties
> when I was driving buses we always checked our mirrors
> before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE TAUGHT TO DO

Has..?

> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses

Tried driving standing up recently..?!

> just like we where only difference today being they are
> being paid around 50 times more for doing it come to
> think about it probably 100 times more. How does £ 11.50
> sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour week

I wouldn't pay you that for a month.

Ivor

clavox@btinternet.com wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>> if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>> it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>> getting on or off.
> 
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
> at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
> these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
> checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
> TAUGHT TO DO .
> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
> where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
> more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
> How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
> week .
I'll bite....
In the 60's & to a lesser extent in the 70's, there were a fraction of 
the number of vehicles on the road, which meant the traffic was a lot 
lighter.
Car drivers (All drivers, in fact) were more willing to give way to 
other road users.
The driver was normally only doing one job, not two.

I'll also bet that the modern driver *is* looking in his mirrors when he 
pulls out, but pulls out gently in order to drop a hint to following 
drivers that he would like to go now, please :-)

My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
of the average run.

It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
ever did then.

<Rant over>:-)

I'm glad I drive coaches....

Tciao for Now!

John.

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
 wrote:

>My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
>sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
>out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
>Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
>of the average run.

Which means the timetable is faulty.  Timetables should be realistic
for the route at the time of day, and equally drivers should wait for
time (a major problem in Milton Keynes where you get a lot of early
running in the evenings) if they need to do so to adhere to it.

>It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

Most parts of Europe are far more enlightened as far as bus operations
go, with well-designed bus lanes, overtaking opportunities at traffic
lights and properly-designed stops.  When my regular Monday and Friday
bus was diverted due to roadworks for a couple of weeks (the 39/45
from Leiden to Den Haag) about 15 minutes were added to the journey
even though no distance was added.  This was because the diversionary
route didn't allow for that infrastructure.

>As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
>drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
>in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should be considered,
and paid as, a skilled, professional role, as indeed it is in Germany,
the Netherlands etc, and not a job of last resort as it is for many.

>Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
>ever did then.

This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well, as I have
never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere else.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams"  wrote in
message news:462bcfc7.83792203@news.individual.net
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
>  wrote:

[snip]

> IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should
> be considered, and paid as, a skilled, professional role,
> as indeed it is in Germany, the Netherlands etc, and not
> a job of last resort as it is for many.

In the States, they are considered to be Federal employees. An assault on 
a bus driver carries the same penalty as on a police officer.

> > Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the
> > public than they ever did then.
>
> This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well,
> as I have never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere
> else.

Not that they do any good. A colleague of mine was dragged out of his cab 
a few years ago after three yobs had battered down the screen. They then 
proceeded to kick 7 bells out of him, breaking three ribs. AFAIK he hasn't 
worked since.

Ivor

clavox@btinternet.com wrote in
news:626n23h21mbuqp5kk7ap8aik7eld51jnaj@4ax.com: 

> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to
>>see if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop
>>you know it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see
>>passengers actually getting on or off.
> 
> 
Try reading the highway code and you will see why we do it. If people 
adhered to the rules we would not have to be as assertive. 

198: Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can 
do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops. Look out 
for people getting off a bus or tram and crossing the road.

Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Neil Williams"  wrote in
> message news:462bcfc7.83792203@news.individual.net
>> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
>>  wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should
>> be considered, and paid as, a skilled, professional role,
>> as indeed it is in Germany, the Netherlands etc, and not
>> a job of last resort as it is for many.

One thing they have that we don't generally have here is a formal career 
structure. The new Certificate of Professional Competence they're 
introducing for drivers *could* be a way into that sort of system here.
> 
> In the States, they are considered to be Federal employees. An assault on 
> a bus driver carries the same penalty as on a police officer.
> 
That would be a good idea.

>>> Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the
>>> public than they ever did then.
>> This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well,
>> as I have never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere
>> else.
> 
> Not that they do any good. A colleague of mine was dragged out of his cab 
> a few years ago after three yobs had battered down the screen. They then 
> proceeded to kick 7 bells out of him, breaking three ribs. AFAIK he hasn't 
> worked since.
> 
That's the sort of thing that really put me off working on LT long ago. 
Talking to their drivers in the 80's & 90's, it seemed that every week 
each garage had a driver or conductor put in hospital by being attacked. 
I lost touch with London a while ago when I escaped to Stoke on Trent.

Tciao for Now!

John.

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:19:50 +0100, John Williamson
 wrote:


>One thing they have that we don't generally have here is a formal career 
>structure. The new Certificate of Professional Competence they're 
>introducing for drivers *could* be a way into that sort of system here.

Well the red and white badge with PSV driver plus number and green and
white with conductor and number where good enough for us so it should
be good enough now . 

>That's the sort of thing that really put me off working on LT long ago. 
>Talking to their drivers in the 80's & 90's, it seemed that every week 
>each garage had a driver or conductor put in hospital by being attacked. 
>I lost touch with London a while ago when I escaped to Stoke on Trent.

Never happened to staff up here John but there where no mamby pamby
magistrates dishing out ASBO's and suspended sentences back then, in
those days it was either a very stiff fine or clink .

clavox@btinternet.com wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:19:50 +0100, John Williamson
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> One thing they have that we don't generally have here is a formal career 
>> structure. The new Certificate of Professional Competence they're 
>> introducing for drivers *could* be a way into that sort of system here.
> 
> Well the red and white badge with PSV driver plus number and green and
> white with conductor and number where good enough for us so it should
> be good enough now . 
> 
There's more to the CPC than a badge. There's more information here:-

http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Category.asp?cat=470

Badge Number is/ was N113468, if you're interested;-)

It was originally a way of identifying a driver through the cab window, 
IIRC. I do know that if there was a problem, I wasn't required by law to 
give my name to the complainant, just show them the badge.

>> That's the sort of thing that really put me off working on LT long ago. 
>> Talking to their drivers in the 80's & 90's, it seemed that every week 
>> each garage had a driver or conductor put in hospital by being attacked. 
>> I lost touch with London a while ago when I escaped to Stoke on Trent.
> 
> Never happened to staff up here John but there where no mamby pamby
> magistrates dishing out ASBO's and suspended sentences back then, in
> those days it was either a very stiff fine or clink .

Up there being where?

This was about the time that policemen that I was working with in London 
were openly referring to the Crown prosecution Service as the Criminal 
Protection Service.

Tciao for Now!

John.

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:59:18 +0100, John Williamson
 wrote:



>Up there being where?
>

Preston .


I completed nearly 30 years on Ribble Motor Services .

clavox@btinternet.com wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:59:18 +0100, John Williamson
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Up there being where?
>>
> 
> Preston .
> 
> 
> I completed nearly 30 years on Ribble Motor Services .

Ah, civilisation:-)

Stops at Watford...
Going South:-/

On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com wrote:

>as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to understand other road
>users attitude to us as bus drivers,why do they try and cut you up,

Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their right turn
indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop  without even checking
for any vehicle about to or is in the process of overtaking them.
Many of the drivers employed by a local company are always doing this,
I can see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for a new
horn for my car shortly.

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:46:18 GMT, Brian Robertson
<brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote:


>People hate bus drivers, but if they only opened their eyes they would 
>find us to be some of the most considerate road users around.
Used to be when I was driving Brian but not for the most part anymore
and basically OMO is causing most of the bad inconsiderate driving on
the part of bus drivers these days due to drivers have to do the jobs
of TWO people .

wrote in message
news:1hqm23154j42o3bqvbptts2v00do8fkoio@4ax.com
> On 15 Apr 2007 03:11:52 -0700, driver844@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
> > as a bus driver,i am findng it more annoying to
> > understand other road users attitude to us as bus
> > drivers,why do they try and cut you up,
>
> Why do some ignorent bus drivers just switch on their
> right turn indicators and atempt to pull away from a stop
> without even checking for any vehicle about to or is in
> the process of overtaking them. Many of the drivers
> employed by a local company are always doing this, I can
> see I am going to have to send a bill to the company for
> a new horn for my car shortly.

More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
getting on or off.

Ivor

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:



>More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>getting on or off.

If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
TAUGHT TO DO .
Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
week .

wrote in message
news:626n23h21mbuqp5kk7ap8aik7eld51jnaj@4ax.com
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

> > More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do
> > you check to see if passengers are boarding or
> > alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know it is going
> > to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers
> > actually getting on or off.
>
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city
> it would put at least 10 minutes on to my journey time ,

Gosh. Try starting out 10 minutes earlier then..!

> we didn't have any of these problems back in the sixties
> when I was driving buses we always checked our mirrors
> before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE TAUGHT TO DO

Has..?

> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses

Tried driving standing up recently..?!

> just like we where only difference today being they are
> being paid around 50 times more for doing it come to
> think about it probably 100 times more. How does £ 11.50
> sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour week

I wouldn't pay you that for a month.

Ivor

clavox@btinternet.com wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:02:16 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> More to the point when you overtake a bus at a stop, do you check to see 
>> if passengers are boarding or alighting..? If a bus is at a stop you know 
>> it is going to pull away shortly unless you can see passengers actually 
>> getting on or off.
> 
> If I gave way to every bus along the route into our city it would put
> at least 10 minutes on to my journey time , we didn't have any of
> these problems back in the sixties when I was driving buses we always
> checked our mirrors before pulling out into traffic HAS WE WHERE
> TAUGHT TO DO .
> Bus drivers today are being paid to sit on their arses just like we
> where only difference today being they are being paid around 50 times
> more for doing it come to think about it probably 100 times more.
> How does £ 11.50 sound Ivor which is what I was getting for a 45 hour
> week .
I'll bite....
In the 60's & to a lesser extent in the 70's, there were a fraction of 
the number of vehicles on the road, which meant the traffic was a lot 
lighter.
Car drivers (All drivers, in fact) were more willing to give way to 
other road users.
The driver was normally only doing one job, not two.

I'll also bet that the modern driver *is* looking in his mirrors when he 
pulls out, but pulls out gently in order to drop a hint to following 
drivers that he would like to go now, please :-)

My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
of the average run.

It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
ever did then.

<Rant over>:-)

I'm glad I drive coaches....

Tciao for Now!

John.

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
 wrote:

>My experience in London and other cities in Britain says that if I just 
>sit there with the indicator going, waiting for some kind soul to let me 
>out, I'll sit there for ever, just about.
>Call it a minute a stop, that makes the bus half an hour late at the end 
>of the average run.

Which means the timetable is faulty.  Timetables should be realistic
for the route at the time of day, and equally drivers should wait for
time (a major problem in Milton Keynes where you get a lot of early
running in the evenings) if they need to do so to adhere to it.

>It's not so bad in Europe. Yet.

Most parts of Europe are far more enlightened as far as bus operations
go, with well-designed bus lanes, overtaking opportunities at traffic
lights and properly-designed stops.  When my regular Monday and Friday
bus was diverted due to roadworks for a couple of weeks (the 39/45
from Leiden to Den Haag) about 15 minutes were added to the journey
even though no distance was added.  This was because the diversionary
route didn't allow for that infrastructure.

>As for the increase in wages, it's called inflation, & I'm betting bus 
>drivers are no better off in real terms per hour now than when I started 
>in the 70's, in spite of doing the work that took two people then.

IMO, it is still too low.  Bus driving in the UK should be considered,
and paid as, a skilled, professional role, as indeed it is in Germany,
the Netherlands etc, and not a job of last resort as it is for many.

>Bus drivers now also get more abuse from members of the public than they 
>ever did then.

This is, sadly, true.  Seems to be a UK thing, as well, as I have
never encountered anti-assault screens anywhere else.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams"  wrote in
message news:462bcfc7.83792203@news.individual.net
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:17:00 +0100, John Williamson
>  wrote:

[snip]

> IMO, it is still too low.  Bus