Myreader.co.uk  
uk news, chat and community
   home   |   control panel login   |   archive   |  
 
misc
announce
answers
consultants
d-i-y
environment
environment.conservation
gov.agency.csa
gov.local
gov.social-security
gov.social-work
misc
philosophy.atheism
philosophy.humanism
philosophy.misc
radio.amateur
railway
sci.astronomy
sci.med.nursing
sci.med.pharmacy
sci.misc
sci.weather
singles
telecom
telecom.broadband
telecom.mobile
telecom.voip
test
transport
transport.air
transport.buses
transport.ferry
transport.london
transport.ride-sharing
  
 
date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700,    group: uk.transport.air        back       
We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

It is collective pressure on government, not consumer choices, that
the world needs now

Published: 13 August 2007

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2859059.ece

This week, two thousand people will gather at London's Heathrow
airport with tents and sleeping bags - not to EasyJet to the beach,
but to alert their fellow citizens to the Weather of Mass Destruction
we are unleashing.

If you need to know why this is necessary, take a look at the world
the deniers are so glibly averting their eyes from. The two countries
doomed to drown by global warming in my lifetime have already begun to
disappear beneath the waves. Almost half of Bangladesh is under water
as you read this, following monsoons four times more ferocious than
they should be. Ten million people are now homeless in the region. In
the Maldives, a series of massive swell waves stretching to 4.5 metres
drowned 68 islands this spring. The residents know the waves are
getting bigger every year, and soon they will swallow their homes
forever.

We are living at a time when the most politically important part of
any news broadcast is the weather forecast. I have just been out on
the borders of Darfur, meeting some of the survivors of the first
global warming- triggered genocide. For decades, the Arab nomads and
the settled African farmers of the region got along fairly well, with
elaborate procedures to share the region's water. But then, as the UN
Secretary-General Ban-Ki Moon recently explained: "Two decades ago,
the rains in southern Sudan began to fail. According to UN statistics,
average precipitation has declined some 40 percent since the early
1980s." This was, he said, almost certainly the result of global
warming.

With the water supplies swiftly disappearing, Darfur's fragile Arab-
African relations broke down - and one side decided the only way they
could survive was to drive their thirsty rivals away, or into a mass
grave.

It is not only the poor world that is being shafted by the
destabilisation of the planet's climate into chaos. Britain has just
been battered by the kind of floods that should only happen every 200
years - except they have happened twice in a six-year stretch.

The protesters at Heathrow are trying to shake us awake, so we do not
sleepwalk into more and more of this. Over the next week they will be
smeared and slandered as "vandals" and "eco-terrorists". (The
Government has disgracefully encouraged the police to use powers
introduced to deal with jihadi murderers against them.) But far from
being "violent", they are trying to prevent the vast and growing
violence of global warming, without hurting a single human being.

Last year, the protesters targeted the Drax coal-fuelled power-station
in Yorkshire. This year, they have chosen Heathrow, an airport with a
fifth terminal opening in March and demands for a sixth already in,
for a simple reason. The current expansion in flying is, on its own, a
guarantee that Britain will fail to meet even the most modest of its
environmental targets.

Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
it is growing rapidly. The Tyndall Centre for Global Warming, one of
the world's most distinguished scientific bodies, has calculated that
air travel alone will take up 134 percent of the Government's
greenhouse gas targets by 2050. That means that even if we stopped
every car and shut every factory, flying alone would guarantee we
fail. If Britain - one of the richest countries in the world - can't
do it, we cannot pressure anyone else to.

Rather than deal with this real and persuasive argument, the right has
been inventing straw-men to savage the protesters with. You want to
keep the poor world poor! No, it is global warming that will keep
people poor - just ask the people of Darfur.

You are snobs, who sneer at working class people flying to Ibiza! No,
we would love people to be able to take more cheap holidays, and to
take them ourselves, if it wasn't for the fact it will contribute to
global disaster. You are, The Times jeered, "dogmatic flat-earthists"
opposed to science! No, we are acting on the overwhelming scientific
consensus.

And, finally they splutter - but you are so impractical! Actually, the
group Plane Stupid!, whose organisers have been absurdly banned from
the camp, has a very practical agenda to reduce these air-emissions.
The first is easy: stop the Government from handing the airline
industry vast sums of taxpayers' money. They pay no VAT, no tax on
their fuel, and have the Government pick up the tab for much of their
construction and maintenance work. The former Treasury economist
Brendan Sewell has calculated that this is worth £10bn a year.
Transfer this cash to cleaner, greener forms of transport.

Gordon Brown is doing the opposite: he has just appointed Digby Jones,
straight from his job as spokesman for big industry, including the
airlines, to the Government. As Chancellor, Brown championed the
Heathrow expansion. Only hard political pressure - showing that
further expansion plans will stir public rage - can change his course.

The Plane Stupid! agenda has two other demands: halt all expansion of
airports, and ban short-haul flights. It's astonishing to realise that
the most popular destinations from Heathrow are Manchester and Paris,
both of which can be reached easily on trains which are almost as fast
and 10 times less polluting. Currently, half of all flights within
Europe go less than 500km - the distance from London to Scotland.
Flying needs to become the very last travel option, after every
alternative has been exhausted.

Since so much environmental reporting by the right has turned into a
game of gotcha! against greens like Al Gore, I should explain my
attitude to my own carbon emissions. I don't drive, and I never take
short-haul flights. I only take long-haul flights for work, where I
kid myself that reporting on human rights abuses makes it worth
spending some carbon. I know the atmosphere does not hear my excuses,
and nor do the victims of global warming.

But it is not enough for a few people to voluntarily restrain
ourselves, while everyone else carries on. We need to all be
restrained, by law, or we will all face spiralling climate chaos.
That's why joining the climate camp is even more important than
changing your lightbulbs or recycling or shifting to a hybrid car: it
is collective pressure on government, not dulled and dispersed
consumer choices, that the world needs now.

Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
weekend: "I realised that if I don't take action, I'm going to spend
my old age watching more floods, more droughts and more death, in the
knowledge I could have done something." To find out how to join her,
go to www.climatecamp.org.uk. How will you explain it to the drowned
people of Bangladesh - and the North of England - if you don't?

Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

It is collective pressure on government, not consumer choices, that
the world needs now

Published: 13 August 2007

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2859059.ece

This week, two thousand people will gather at London's Heathrow
airport with tents and sleeping bags - not to EasyJet to the beach,
but to alert their fellow citizens to the Weather of Mass Destruction
we are unleashing.

If you need to know why this is necessary, take a look at the world
the deniers are so glibly averting their eyes from. The two countries
doomed to drown by global warming in my lifetime have already begun to
disappear beneath the waves. Almost half of Bangladesh is under water
as you read this, following monsoons four times more ferocious than
they should be. Ten million people are now homeless in the region. In
the Maldives, a series of massive swell waves stretching to 4.5 metres
drowned 68 islands this spring. The residents know the waves are
getting bigger every year, and soon they will swallow their homes
forever.

We are living at a time when the most politically important part of
any news broadcast is the weather forecast. I have just been out on
the borders of Darfur, meeting some of the survivors of the first
global warming- triggered genocide. For decades, the Arab nomads and
the settled African farmers of the region got along fairly well, with
elaborate procedures to share the region's water. But then, as the UN
Secretary-General Ban-Ki Moon recently explained: "Two decades ago,
the rains in southern Sudan began to fail. According to UN statistics,
average precipitation has declined some 40 percent since the early
1980s." This was, he said, almost certainly the result of global
warming.

With the water supplies swiftly disappearing, Darfur's fragile Arab-
African relations broke down - and one side decided the only way they
could survive was to drive their thirsty rivals away, or into a mass
grave.

It is not only the poor world that is being shafted by the
destabilisation of the planet's climate into chaos. Britain has just
been battered by the kind of floods that should only happen every 200
years - except they have happened twice in a six-year stretch.

The protesters at Heathrow are trying to shake us awake, so we do not
sleepwalk into more and more of this. Over the next week they will be
smeared and slandered as "vandals" and "eco-terrorists". (The
Government has disgracefully encouraged the police to use powers
introduced to deal with jihadi murderers against them.) But far from
being "violent", they are trying to prevent the vast and growing
violence of global warming, without hurting a single human being.

Last year, the protesters targeted the Drax coal-fuelled power-station
in Yorkshire. This year, they have chosen Heathrow, an airport with a
fifth terminal opening in March and demands for a sixth already in,
for a simple reason. The current expansion in flying is, on its own, a
guarantee that Britain will fail to meet even the most modest of its
environmental targets.

Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
it is growing rapidly. The Tyndall Centre for Global Warming, one of
the world's most distinguished scientific bodies, has calculated that
air travel alone will take up 134 percent of the Government's
greenhouse gas targets by 2050. That means that even if we stopped
every car and shut every factory, flying alone would guarantee we
fail. If Britain - one of the richest countries in the world - can't
do it, we cannot pressure anyone else to.

Rather than deal with this real and persuasive argument, the right has
been inventing straw-men to savage the protesters with. You want to
keep the poor world poor! No, it is global warming that will keep
people poor - just ask the people of Darfur.

You are snobs, who sneer at working class people flying to Ibiza! No,
we would love people to be able to take more cheap holidays, and to
take them ourselves, if it wasn't for the fact it will contribute to
global disaster. You are, The Times jeered, "dogmatic flat-earthists"
opposed to science! No, we are acting on the overwhelming scientific
consensus.

And, finally they splutter - but you are so impractical! Actually, the
group Plane Stupid!, whose organisers have been absurdly banned from
the camp, has a very practical agenda to reduce these air-emissions.
The first is easy: stop the Government from handing the airline
industry vast sums of taxpayers' money. They pay no VAT, no tax on
their fuel, and have the Government pick up the tab for much of their
construction and maintenance work. The former Treasury economist
Brendan Sewell has calculated that this is worth £10bn a year.
Transfer this cash to cleaner, greener forms of transport.

Gordon Brown is doing the opposite: he has just appointed Digby Jones,
straight from his job as spokesman for big industry, including the
airlines, to the Government. As Chancellor, Brown championed the
Heathrow expansion. Only hard political pressure - showing that
further expansion plans will stir public rage - can change his course.

The Plane Stupid! agenda has two other demands: halt all expansion of
airports, and ban short-haul flights. It's astonishing to realise that
the most popular destinations from Heathrow are Manchester and Paris,
both of which can be reached easily on trains which are almost as fast
and 10 times less polluting. Currently, half of all flights within
Europe go less than 500km - the distance from London to Scotland.
Flying needs to become the very last travel option, after every
alternative has been exhausted.

Since so much environmental reporting by the right has turned into a
game of gotcha! against greens like Al Gore, I should explain my
attitude to my own carbon emissions. I don't drive, and I never take
short-haul flights. I only take long-haul flights for work, where I
kid myself that reporting on human rights abuses makes it worth
spending some carbon. I know the atmosphere does not hear my excuses,
and nor do the victims of global warming.

But it is not enough for a few people to voluntarily restrain
ourselves, while everyone else carries on. We need to all be
restrained, by law, or we will all face spiralling climate chaos.
That's why joining the climate camp is even more important than
changing your lightbulbs or recycling or shifting to a hybrid car: it
is collective pressure on government, not dulled and dispersed
consumer choices, that the world needs now.

Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
weekend: "I realised that if I don't take action, I'm going to spend
my old age watching more floods, more droughts and more death, in the
knowledge I could have done something." To find out how to join her,
go to www.climatecamp.org.uk. How will you explain it to the drowned
people of Bangladesh - and the North of England - if you don't?

j.hari [at] independent.co.uk
date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700   author:   SB

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB  wrote:

>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

I think he should stop producing carbon dioxide (and water) from
oxygen and glucose. The number of units on the planet that perform
this environmentally-damaging process is now over seven billion and
out of control.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:26:50 +0100   author:   James Farrar

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB  wrote:

>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

I think he should stop producing carbon dioxide (and water) from
oxygen and glucose. The number of units on the planet that perform
this environmentally-damaging process is now over seven billion and
out of control.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:26:50 +0100   author:   James Farrar

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
SB  wrote:

> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> it? Turn up the patio heater."

> To find out how to join her, go to www.climatecamp.org.uk.

I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.

> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> North of England - if you don't?

"Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:14:35 +0100   author:   %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"SB"  wrote in message 
news:1187045933.862385.266570@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

It is collective pressure on government, not consumer choices, that
the world needs now

Published: 13 August 2007

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2859059.ece

> This week, two thousand people will gather at London's Heathrow
> airport with tents and sleeping bags - not to EasyJet to the beach,
> but to alert their fellow citizens to the Weather of Mass Destruction
> we are unleashing.
>
> If you need to know why this is necessary, take a look at the world
> the deniers are so glibly averting their eyes from.

If you want to know why it is a total waste of time, look at the results of 
the most accurate climate model yet produced - published by the Met Office 
this week. The model, accurately predicts past unusual events like El Nino 
from data available at the time, tells us that we cannot stop climate 
change, no matter what action we take. We should, therefore, be preparing 
for it to happen, not trying to stop the unstoppable.

.....
> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
> it is growing rapidly.

Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it was 
likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and nights 
and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in other climate 
change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to which human 
activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you mean the levels 
of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world output, but you will 
not get any scientific concensus on whether rising levels of CO2 are a cause 
or an effect of rising temperatures.

....
> The Tyndall Centre for Global Warming, ...

It's proper name is the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research.

Colin Bignell
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:06:39 +0100   author:   nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB  wrote:

>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

I think he should stop producing carbon dioxide (and water) from
oxygen and glucose. The number of units on the planet that perform
this environmentally-damaging process is now over seven billion and
out of control.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:26:50 +0100   author:   James Farrar

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
SB  wrote:

> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> it? Turn up the patio heater."

> To find out how to join her, go to www.climatecamp.org.uk.

I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.

> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> North of England - if you don't?

"Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:14:35 +0100   author:   %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"SB"  wrote in message 
news:1187045933.862385.266570@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

It is collective pressure on government, not consumer choices, that
the world needs now

Published: 13 August 2007

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2859059.ece

> This week, two thousand people will gather at London's Heathrow
> airport with tents and sleeping bags - not to EasyJet to the beach,
> but to alert their fellow citizens to the Weather of Mass Destruction
> we are unleashing.
>
> If you need to know why this is necessary, take a look at the world
> the deniers are so glibly averting their eyes from.

If you want to know why it is a total waste of time, look at the results of 
the most accurate climate model yet produced - published by the Met Office 
this week. The model, accurately predicts past unusual events like El Nino 
from data available at the time, tells us that we cannot stop climate 
change, no matter what action we take. We should, therefore, be preparing 
for it to happen, not trying to stop the unstoppable.

.....
> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
> it is growing rapidly.

Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it was 
likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and nights 
and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in other climate 
change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to which human 
activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you mean the levels 
of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world output, but you will 
not get any scientific concensus on whether rising levels of CO2 are a cause 
or an effect of rising temperatures.

....
> The Tyndall Centre for Global Warming, ...

It's proper name is the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research.

Colin Bignell
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:06:39 +0100   author:   nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

Ah, Johann Hari. The man who is so reliably wrong about everything he
writes about, that if he said it was sunny outside you know for
certain to take your umbrella.

Mark
-- 
http://www.MotorwayServices.info - read and share comments and opinons
"Emotions run deep as oceans"
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:24:14 +0100   author:   Mark Goodge

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
news:28Wdnbw3E5KMnVzbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
....
>> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
>> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
>> it is growing rapidly.
>
> Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
> could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it was 
> likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and nights 
> and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in other 
> climate change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to which 
> human activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you mean the 
> levels of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world output, but 
> you will not get any scientific concensus on whether rising levels of CO2 
> are a cause or an effect of rising temperatures.

It also appears to be a figure that doesn't sanity check.

Is it really possible that my four or five days flying is 20% of
my total output, when I spend the other days, driving 12,000
miles in my car, heating my house, and buying products
manufactured in factories doing much the same, not to
mention living in an a area surrounded by cows belching.

If you shout it loudly enough some may believe it, but I
don't.

tim
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:15:36 +0100   author:   tim.....

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> SB  wrote:
> > Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> > weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> > my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> > it? Turn up the patio heater."
> > To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>
> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>
Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>
> > How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> > North of England - if you don't?
>
> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."

Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
die.
--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
"The 4x4, more of a sewer than a convenience".
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:37:05 -0700   author:   Doug

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Doug wrote:
> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>> SB  wrote:
>>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
>>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
>>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
>>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
>>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>>
>> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>>
> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>>
>>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
>>> the North of England - if you don't?
>>
>> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>
> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> die.

And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary air 
transport?
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:41:10 +0100   author:   Brimstone

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On 14 Aug, 08:41, "Brimstone"  wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> >> SB  wrote:
> >>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
> >>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
> >>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
> >>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
> >>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>
> >> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>
> > Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>
> >>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
> >>> the North of England - if you don't?
>
> >> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>
> > Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> > die.
>
> And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary air
> transport?

Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
Travel broadens the damage.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:52:27 -0700   author:   Doug

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"tim....."  wrote in message 
news:5id34nF3p5k1vU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
> news:28Wdnbw3E5KMnVzbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
> ...
>>> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
>>> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
>>> it is growing rapidly.
>>
>> Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
>> could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it 
>> was likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and 
>> nights and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in 
>> other climate change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to 
>> which human activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you 
>> mean the levels of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world 
>> output, but you will not get any scientific concensus on whether rising 
>> levels of CO2 are a cause or an effect of rising temperatures.
>
> It also appears to be a figure that doesn't sanity check.
>
> Is it really possible that my four or five days flying is 20% of
> my total output, when I spend the other days, driving 12,000
> miles in my car, heating my house, and buying products
> manufactured in factories doing much the same, not to
> mention living in an a area surrounded by cows belching.

If you believe that CO2 is bad, one of the most enviromentally unfriendly 
things you can do is to eat, especially if you are a vegetarian. Arable 
farming is very fuel intensive. There is also the problem that if flying is 
reduced, the amount of aircraft contrails will be reduced and they 
contribute to cooling the globe by reflecting solar energy.

Colin Bignell
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:55:29 +0100   author:   nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Doug wrote:
> On 14 Aug, 08:41, "Brimstone"  wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>> SB  wrote:
>>>>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
>>>>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
>>>>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
>>>>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
>>>>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>>
>>>> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>>
>>> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>>
>>>>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
>>>>> the North of England - if you don't?
>>
>>>> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>>
>>> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others
>>> might die.
>>
>> And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary
>> air transport?
>
> Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.

So why do you insist on contributing to the unnecessary transport of food 
around the planet?
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:26:05 +0100   author:   Brimstone

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Doug  wrote:

> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> > SB  wrote:
> > > Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> > > weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> > > my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> > > it? Turn up the patio heater."
> > > To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
> >
> > I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
> >
> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.

<sigh>

We've been through this before. Do you really want to be embarassed in
public, again?

> > > How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> > > North of England - if you don't?
> >
> > "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
> 
> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> die.

Get back to school and learn some simple maths. 4x4s are not the
problem, aircraft are not the problem. Deal with the majority of CO2
emissions first, not 2% of all emissions.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:41:03 +0100   author:   %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Brimstone  wrote:

> Doug wrote:
> > On 14 Aug, 08:41, "Brimstone"  wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
> >>> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> >>>> SB  wrote:
> >>>>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
> >>>>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
> >>>>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
> >>>>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
> >>>>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
> >>
> >>>> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
> >>
> >>> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
> >>
> >>>>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
> >>>>> the North of England - if you don't?
> >>
> >>>> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
> >>
> >>> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others
> >>> might die.
> >>
> >> And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary
> >> air transport?
> >
> > Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.
> 
> So why do you insist on contributing to the unnecessary transport of food
> around the planet? 

And to the unnecessary transport of fuckwits to an illegal occupation of
a sports field?
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:51:00 +0100   author:   %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB  wrote:

>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

I think he should stop producing carbon dioxide (and water) from
oxygen and glucose. The number of units on the planet that perform
this environmentally-damaging process is now over seven billion and
out of control.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:26:50 +0100   author:   James Farrar

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
SB  wrote:

> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> it? Turn up the patio heater."

> To find out how to join her, go to www.climatecamp.org.uk.

I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.

> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> North of England - if you don't?

"Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:14:35 +0100   author:   %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"SB"  wrote in message 
news:1187045933.862385.266570@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

It is collective pressure on government, not consumer choices, that
the world needs now

Published: 13 August 2007

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2859059.ece

> This week, two thousand people will gather at London's Heathrow
> airport with tents and sleeping bags - not to EasyJet to the beach,
> but to alert their fellow citizens to the Weather of Mass Destruction
> we are unleashing.
>
> If you need to know why this is necessary, take a look at the world
> the deniers are so glibly averting their eyes from.

If you want to know why it is a total waste of time, look at the results of 
the most accurate climate model yet produced - published by the Met Office 
this week. The model, accurately predicts past unusual events like El Nino 
from data available at the time, tells us that we cannot stop climate 
change, no matter what action we take. We should, therefore, be preparing 
for it to happen, not trying to stop the unstoppable.

.....
> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
> it is growing rapidly.

Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it was 
likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and nights 
and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in other climate 
change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to which human 
activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you mean the levels 
of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world output, but you will 
not get any scientific concensus on whether rising levels of CO2 are a cause 
or an effect of rising temperatures.

....
> The Tyndall Centre for Global Warming, ...

It's proper name is the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research.

Colin Bignell
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:06:39 +0100   author:   nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

Ah, Johann Hari. The man who is so reliably wrong about everything he
writes about, that if he said it was sunny outside you know for
certain to take your umbrella.

Mark
-- 
http://www.MotorwayServices.info - read and share comments and opinons
"Emotions run deep as oceans"
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:24:14 +0100   author:   Mark Goodge

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
news:28Wdnbw3E5KMnVzbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
....
>> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
>> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
>> it is growing rapidly.
>
> Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
> could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it was 
> likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and nights 
> and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in other 
> climate change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to which 
> human activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you mean the 
> levels of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world output, but 
> you will not get any scientific concensus on whether rising levels of CO2 
> are a cause or an effect of rising temperatures.

It also appears to be a figure that doesn't sanity check.

Is it really possible that my four or five days flying is 20% of
my total output, when I spend the other days, driving 12,000
miles in my car, heating my house, and buying products
manufactured in factories doing much the same, not to
mention living in an a area surrounded by cows belching.

If you shout it loudly enough some may believe it, but I
don't.

tim
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:15:36 +0100   author:   tim.....

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> SB  wrote:
> > Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> > weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> > my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> > it? Turn up the patio heater."
> > To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>
> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>
Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>
> > How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> > North of England - if you don't?
>
> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."

Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
die.
--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
"The 4x4, more of a sewer than a convenience".
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:37:05 -0700   author:   Doug

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Doug wrote:
> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>> SB  wrote:
>>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
>>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
>>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
>>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
>>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>>
>> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>>
> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>>
>>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
>>> the North of England - if you don't?
>>
>> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>
> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> die.

And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary air 
transport?
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:41:10 +0100   author:   Brimstone

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On 14 Aug, 08:41, "Brimstone"  wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> >> SB  wrote:
> >>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
> >>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
> >>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
> >>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
> >>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>
> >> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>
> > Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>
> >>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
> >>> the North of England - if you don't?
>
> >> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>
> > Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> > die.
>
> And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary air
> transport?

Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
Travel broadens the damage.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:52:27 -0700   author:   Doug

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"tim....."  wrote in message 
news:5id34nF3p5k1vU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
> news:28Wdnbw3E5KMnVzbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
> ...
>>> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
>>> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
>>> it is growing rapidly.
>>
>> Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
>> could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it 
>> was likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and 
>> nights and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in 
>> other climate change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to 
>> which human activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you 
>> mean the levels of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world 
>> output, but you will not get any scientific concensus on whether rising 
>> levels of CO2 are a cause or an effect of rising temperatures.
>
> It also appears to be a figure that doesn't sanity check.
>
> Is it really possible that my four or five days flying is 20% of
> my total output, when I spend the other days, driving 12,000
> miles in my car, heating my house, and buying products
> manufactured in factories doing much the same, not to
> mention living in an a area surrounded by cows belching.

If you believe that CO2 is bad, one of the most enviromentally unfriendly 
things you can do is to eat, especially if you are a vegetarian. Arable 
farming is very fuel intensive. There is also the problem that if flying is 
reduced, the amount of aircraft contrails will be reduced and they 
contribute to cooling the globe by reflecting solar energy.

Colin Bignell
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:55:29 +0100   author:   nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Doug wrote:
> On 14 Aug, 08:41, "Brimstone"  wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>> SB  wrote:
>>>>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
>>>>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
>>>>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
>>>>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
>>>>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>>
>>>> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>>
>>> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>>
>>>>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
>>>>> the North of England - if you don't?
>>
>>>> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>>
>>> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others
>>> might die.
>>
>> And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary
>> air transport?
>
> Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.

So why do you insist on contributing to the unnecessary transport of food 
around the planet?
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:26:05 +0100   author:   Brimstone

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Doug  wrote:

> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> > SB  wrote:
> > > Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> > > weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> > > my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> > > it? Turn up the patio heater."
> > > To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
> >
> > I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
> >
> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.

<sigh>

We've been through this before. Do you really want to be embarassed in
public, again?

> > > How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> > > North of England - if you don't?
> >
> > "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
> 
> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> die.

Get back to school and learn some simple maths. 4x4s are not the
problem, aircraft are not the problem. Deal with the majority of CO2
emissions first, not 2% of all emissions.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:41:03 +0100   author:   %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Brimstone  wrote:

> Doug wrote:
> > On 14 Aug, 08:41, "Brimstone"  wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
> >>> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> >>>> SB  wrote:
> >>>>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
> >>>>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
> >>>>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
> >>>>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
> >>>>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
> >>
> >>>> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
> >>
> >>> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
> >>
> >>>>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
> >>>>> the North of England - if you don't?
> >>
> >>>> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
> >>
> >>> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others
> >>> might die.
> >>
> >> And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary
> >> air transport?
> >
> > Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.
> 
> So why do you insist on contributing to the unnecessary transport of food
> around the planet? 

And to the unnecessary transport of fuckwits to an illegal occupation of
a sports field?
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:51:00 +0100   author:   %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
news:DpOdnX9Q3tuc_VzbnZ2dnUVZ8t2snZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "tim....."  wrote in message 
> news:5id34nF3p5k1vU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
>> news:28Wdnbw3E5KMnVzbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>> ...
>>>> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
>>>> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
>>>> it is growing rapidly.
>>>
>>> Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
>>> could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it 
>>> was likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and 
>>> nights and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in 
>>> other climate change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to 
>>> which human activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you 
>>> mean the levels of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world 
>>> output, but you will not get any scientific concensus on whether rising 
>>> levels of CO2 are a cause or an effect of rising temperatures.
>>
>> It also appears to be a figure that doesn't sanity check.
>>
>> Is it really possible that my four or five days flying is 20% of
>> my total output, when I spend the other days, driving 12,000
>> miles in my car, heating my house, and buying products
>> manufactured in factories doing much the same, not to
>> mention living in an a area surrounded by cows belching.
>
> If you believe that CO2 is bad, one of the most enviromentally unfriendly

I presume that you meant to say:

"if one believes....."

tim
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:43:58 +0100   author:   tim.....

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"Brimstone"  wrote in message 
news:l-mdnZYV_oiA-lzbRVnyvQA@bt.com...
> Doug wrote:
>> On 14 Aug, 08:41, "Brimstone"  wrote:
>>> Doug wrote:
>>>> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>>> SB  wrote:
>>>>>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
>>>>>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
>>>>>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
>>>>>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
>>>>>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>>>
>>>>> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>>>
>>>> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>>>
>>>>>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
>>>>>> the North of England - if you don't?
>>>
>>>>> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>>>
>>>> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others
>>>> might die.
>>>
>>> And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary
>>> air transport?
>>
>> Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.
>
> So why do you insist on contributing to the unnecessary transport of food 
> around the planet?

This is a very good point.  One which (if you don't mind) I will save
up for the next time that my travelling is challenged.

I would much much much rather not have out of season fruit and
vegetables, than not go on holiday.  When offered the choice I
will make it, as I'm not being given the choice, tough!.

tim




>
>
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:49:35 +0100   author:   tim.....

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
" http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Johann_Hari "

Quite interesting.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:06:42 GMT   author:   Fred

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
In article ,
Mark Goodge   wrote:
>On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB put finger to keyboard and
>typed:
>
>>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting
>
>Ah, Johann Hari. The man who is so reliably wrong about everything he
>writes about, that if he said it was sunny outside you know for
>certain to take your umbrella.

I still have no respect for him after the completely sanctimonious way
he spent the run up to the Iraq thing sucking up to Blair and Bush in
his Independent column, and being preachy and condescending at the
hordes of people who were fairly accurately predicting what actually
ended up happening.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:29:37 GMT   author:   Sarah Brown

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Aug 14, 9:41 am, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> Doug  wrote:
> > On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> > > SB  wrote:
> > > > Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> > > > weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> > > > my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> > > > it? Turn up the patio heater."
> > > > To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>
> > > I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>
> > Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>
> <sigh>
>
> We've been through this before. Do you really want to be embarassed in
> public, again?
>
> > > > How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> > > > North of England - if you don't?
>
> > > "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>
> > Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> > die.
>
> Get back to school and learn some simple maths. 4x4s are not the
> problem, aircraft are not the problem. Deal with the majority of CO2
> emissions first, not 2% of all emissions.

Doug only wants to tackle the % that won't impact him...

Fod
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:35:04 -0700   author:   Fod

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
In article , Doug 
says...

> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> die.

Doug, what are you going to do about all the bacteria in soil who 
produce the most CO2 of all?

-- 
Conor

The United States, increasing quality by lowering standards since 1776.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:39:37 +0100   author:   Conor

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
In article , 
Doug says...

> > And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary air
> > transport?
> 
> Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.
> 
Yet here you are having food flown in from the other side of the world 
when this country is capable of self sufficiency.


-- 
Conor

The United States, increasing quality by lowering standards since 1776.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:42:17 +0100   author:   Conor

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB  wrote:

>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

I think he should stop producing carbon dioxide (and water) from
oxygen and glucose. The number of units on the planet that perform
this environmentally-damaging process is now over seven billion and
out of control.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:26:50 +0100   author:   James Farrar

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
SB  wrote:

> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> it? Turn up the patio heater."

> To find out how to join her, go to www.climatecamp.org.uk.

I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.

> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> North of England - if you don't?

"Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:14:35 +0100   author:   %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"SB"  wrote in message 
news:1187045933.862385.266570@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

It is collective pressure on government, not consumer choices, that
the world needs now

Published: 13 August 2007

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2859059.ece

> This week, two thousand people will gather at London's Heathrow
> airport with tents and sleeping bags - not to EasyJet to the beach,
> but to alert their fellow citizens to the Weather of Mass Destruction
> we are unleashing.
>
> If you need to know why this is necessary, take a look at the world
> the deniers are so glibly averting their eyes from.

If you want to know why it is a total waste of time, look at the results of 
the most accurate climate model yet produced - published by the Met Office 
this week. The model, accurately predicts past unusual events like El Nino 
from data available at the time, tells us that we cannot stop climate 
change, no matter what action we take. We should, therefore, be preparing 
for it to happen, not trying to stop the unstoppable.

.....
> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
> it is growing rapidly.

Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it was 
likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and nights 
and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in other climate 
change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to which human 
activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you mean the levels 
of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world output, but you will 
not get any scientific concensus on whether rising levels of CO2 are a cause 
or an effect of rising temperatures.

....
> The Tyndall Centre for Global Warming, ...

It's proper name is the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research.

Colin Bignell
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:06:39 +0100   author:   nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

Ah, Johann Hari. The man who is so reliably wrong about everything he
writes about, that if he said it was sunny outside you know for
certain to take your umbrella.

Mark
-- 
http://www.MotorwayServices.info - read and share comments and opinons
"Emotions run deep as oceans"
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:24:14 +0100   author:   Mark Goodge

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
news:28Wdnbw3E5KMnVzbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
....
>> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
>> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
>> it is growing rapidly.
>
> Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
> could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it was 
> likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and nights 
> and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in other 
> climate change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to which 
> human activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you mean the 
> levels of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world output, but 
> you will not get any scientific concensus on whether rising levels of CO2 
> are a cause or an effect of rising temperatures.

It also appears to be a figure that doesn't sanity check.

Is it really possible that my four or five days flying is 20% of
my total output, when I spend the other days, driving 12,000
miles in my car, heating my house, and buying products
manufactured in factories doing much the same, not to
mention living in an a area surrounded by cows belching.

If you shout it loudly enough some may believe it, but I
don't.

tim
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:15:36 +0100   author:   tim.....

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> SB  wrote:
> > Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> > weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> > my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> > it? Turn up the patio heater."
> > To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>
> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>
Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>
> > How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> > North of England - if you don't?
>
> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."

Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
die.
--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
"The 4x4, more of a sewer than a convenience".
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:37:05 -0700   author:   Doug

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Doug wrote:
> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>> SB  wrote:
>>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
>>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
>>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
>>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
>>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>>
>> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>>
> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>>
>>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
>>> the North of England - if you don't?
>>
>> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>
> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> die.

And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary air 
transport?
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:41:10 +0100   author:   Brimstone

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On 14 Aug, 08:41, "Brimstone"  wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> >> SB  wrote:
> >>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
> >>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
> >>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
> >>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
> >>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>
> >> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>
> > Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>
> >>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
> >>> the North of England - if you don't?
>
> >> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>
> > Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> > die.
>
> And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary air
> transport?

Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
Travel broadens the damage.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:52:27 -0700   author:   Doug

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"tim....."  wrote in message 
news:5id34nF3p5k1vU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
> news:28Wdnbw3E5KMnVzbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
> ...
>>> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
>>> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
>>> it is growing rapidly.
>>
>> Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
>> could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it 
>> was likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and 
>> nights and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in 
>> other climate change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to 
>> which human activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you 
>> mean the levels of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world 
>> output, but you will not get any scientific concensus on whether rising 
>> levels of CO2 are a cause or an effect of rising temperatures.
>
> It also appears to be a figure that doesn't sanity check.
>
> Is it really possible that my four or five days flying is 20% of
> my total output, when I spend the other days, driving 12,000
> miles in my car, heating my house, and buying products
> manufactured in factories doing much the same, not to
> mention living in an a area surrounded by cows belching.

If you believe that CO2 is bad, one of the most enviromentally unfriendly 
things you can do is to eat, especially if you are a vegetarian. Arable 
farming is very fuel intensive. There is also the problem that if flying is 
reduced, the amount of aircraft contrails will be reduced and they 
contribute to cooling the globe by reflecting solar energy.

Colin Bignell
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:55:29 +0100   author:   nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Doug wrote:
> On 14 Aug, 08:41, "Brimstone"  wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>> SB  wrote:
>>>>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
>>>>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
>>>>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
>>>>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
>>>>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>>
>>>> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>>
>>> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>>
>>>>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
>>>>> the North of England - if you don't?
>>
>>>> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>>
>>> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others
>>> might die.
>>
>> And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary
>> air transport?
>
> Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.

So why do you insist on contributing to the unnecessary transport of food 
around the planet?
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:26:05 +0100   author:   Brimstone

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Doug  wrote:

> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> > SB  wrote:
> > > Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> > > weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> > > my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> > > it? Turn up the patio heater."
> > > To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
> >
> > I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
> >
> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.

<sigh>

We've been through this before. Do you really want to be embarassed in
public, again?

> > > How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> > > North of England - if you don't?
> >
> > "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
> 
> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> die.

Get back to school and learn some simple maths. 4x4s are not the
problem, aircraft are not the problem. Deal with the majority of CO2
emissions first, not 2% of all emissions.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:41:03 +0100   author:   %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
Brimstone  wrote:

> Doug wrote:
> > On 14 Aug, 08:41, "Brimstone"  wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
> >>> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> >>>> SB  wrote:
> >>>>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
> >>>>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
> >>>>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
> >>>>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
> >>>>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
> >>
> >>>> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
> >>
> >>> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
> >>
> >>>>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
> >>>>> the North of England - if you don't?
> >>
> >>>> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
> >>
> >>> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others
> >>> might die.
> >>
> >> And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary
> >> air transport?
> >
> > Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.
> 
> So why do you insist on contributing to the unnecessary transport of food
> around the planet? 

And to the unnecessary transport of fuckwits to an illegal occupation of
a sports field?
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:51:00 +0100   author:   %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
news:DpOdnX9Q3tuc_VzbnZ2dnUVZ8t2snZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "tim....."  wrote in message 
> news:5id34nF3p5k1vU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
>> news:28Wdnbw3E5KMnVzbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>> ...
>>>> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
>>>> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
>>>> it is growing rapidly.
>>>
>>> Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
>>> could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it 
>>> was likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and 
>>> nights and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in 
>>> other climate change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to 
>>> which human activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you 
>>> mean the levels of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world 
>>> output, but you will not get any scientific concensus on whether rising 
>>> levels of CO2 are a cause or an effect of rising temperatures.
>>
>> It also appears to be a figure that doesn't sanity check.
>>
>> Is it really possible that my four or five days flying is 20% of
>> my total output, when I spend the other days, driving 12,000
>> miles in my car, heating my house, and buying products
>> manufactured in factories doing much the same, not to
>> mention living in an a area surrounded by cows belching.
>
> If you believe that CO2 is bad, one of the most enviromentally unfriendly

I presume that you meant to say:

"if one believes....."

tim
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:43:58 +0100   author:   tim.....

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"Brimstone"  wrote in message 
news:l-mdnZYV_oiA-lzbRVnyvQA@bt.com...
> Doug wrote:
>> On 14 Aug, 08:41, "Brimstone"  wrote:
>>> Doug wrote:
>>>> On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>>> SB  wrote:
>>>>>> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said
>>>>>> this weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I
>>>>>> need to save my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr
>>>>>> a bit chilly isn't it? Turn up the patio heater."
>>>>>> To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>>>
>>>>> I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>>>
>>>> Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>>>
>>>>>> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and
>>>>>> the North of England - if you don't?
>>>
>>>>> "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>>>
>>>> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others
>>>> might die.
>>>
>>> And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary
>>> air transport?
>>
>> Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.
>
> So why do you insist on contributing to the unnecessary transport of food 
> around the planet?

This is a very good point.  One which (if you don't mind) I will save
up for the next time that my travelling is challenged.

I would much much much rather not have out of season fruit and
vegetables, than not go on holiday.  When offered the choice I
will make it, as I'm not being given the choice, tough!.

tim




>
>
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:49:35 +0100   author:   tim.....

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
" http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Johann_Hari "

Quite interesting.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:06:42 GMT   author:   Fred

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
In article ,
Mark Goodge   wrote:
>On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB put finger to keyboard and
>typed:
>
>>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting
>
>Ah, Johann Hari. The man who is so reliably wrong about everything he
>writes about, that if he said it was sunny outside you know for
>certain to take your umbrella.

I still have no respect for him after the completely sanctimonious way
he spent the run up to the Iraq thing sucking up to Blair and Bush in
his Independent column, and being preachy and condescending at the
hordes of people who were fairly accurately predicting what actually
ended up happening.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:29:37 GMT   author:   Sarah Brown

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Aug 14, 9:41 am, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> Doug  wrote:
> > On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> > > SB  wrote:
> > > > Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> > > > weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> > > > my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> > > > it? Turn up the patio heater."
> > > > To find out how to join her, go towww.climatecamp.org.uk.
>
> > > I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.
>
> > Well, as an arch polluter yourself, you would say that wouldn't you.
>
> <sigh>
>
> We've been through this before. Do you really want to be embarassed in
> public, again?
>
> > > > How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> > > > North of England - if you don't?
>
> > > "Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
>
> > Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> > die.
>
> Get back to school and learn some simple maths. 4x4s are not the
> problem, aircraft are not the problem. Deal with the majority of CO2
> emissions first, not 2% of all emissions.

Doug only wants to tackle the % that won't impact him...

Fod
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:35:04 -0700   author:   Fod

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
In article , Doug 
says...

> Get back to your 4x4 Filth and carry on polluting so that others might
> die.

Doug, what are you going to do about all the bacteria in soil who 
produce the most CO2 of all?

-- 
Conor

The United States, increasing quality by lowering standards since 1776.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:39:37 +0100   author:   Conor

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
In article , 
Doug says...

> > And what about all the people who are suffering due to unnecessary air
> > transport?
> 
> Agreed. No transport should be unnecessary.
> 
Yet here you are having food flown in from the other side of the world 
when this country is capable of self sufficiency.


-- 
Conor

The United States, increasing quality by lowering standards since 1776.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:42:17 +0100   author:   Conor

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB  wrote:

>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

I think he should stop producing carbon dioxide (and water) from
oxygen and glucose. The number of units on the planet that perform
this environmentally-damaging process is now over seven billion and
out of control.
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:26:50 +0100   author:   James Farrar

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
SB  wrote:

> Leila, a London admin assistant helping to prepare the camp, said this
> weekend: "I've been suckered by a load of old bollocks and I need to save
> my conscience. Pass the champers wil you darling? Brr a bit chilly isn't
> it? Turn up the patio heater."

> To find out how to join her, go to www.climatecamp.org.uk.

I did, fairly nauseating sight of middle-class hypocritical angst.

> How will you explain it to the drowned people of Bangladesh - and the
> North of England - if you don't?

"Fuck off and live somewhere less pikey."
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:14:35 +0100   author:   %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"SB"  wrote in message 
news:1187045933.862385.266570@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

It is collective pressure on government, not consumer choices, that
the world needs now

Published: 13 August 2007

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2859059.ece

> This week, two thousand people will gather at London's Heathrow
> airport with tents and sleeping bags - not to EasyJet to the beach,
> but to alert their fellow citizens to the Weather of Mass Destruction
> we are unleashing.
>
> If you need to know why this is necessary, take a look at the world
> the deniers are so glibly averting their eyes from.

If you want to know why it is a total waste of time, look at the results of 
the most accurate climate model yet produced - published by the Met Office 
this week. The model, accurately predicts past unusual events like El Nino 
from data available at the time, tells us that we cannot stop climate 
change, no matter what action we take. We should, therefore, be preparing 
for it to happen, not trying to stop the unstoppable.

.....
> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
> it is growing rapidly.

Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it was 
likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and nights 
and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in other climate 
change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to which human 
activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you mean the levels 
of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world output, but you will 
not get any scientific concensus on whether rising levels of CO2 are a cause 
or an effect of rising temperatures.

....
> The Tyndall Centre for Global Warming, ...

It's proper name is the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research.

Colin Bignell
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:06:39 +0100   author:   nightjar nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:58:53 -0700, SB put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>Johann Hari: We should all be at Heathrow protesting

Ah, Johann Hari. The man who is so reliably wrong about everything he
writes about, that if he said it was sunny outside you know for
certain to take your umbrella.

Mark
-- 
http://www.MotorwayServices.info - read and share comments and opinons
"Emotions run deep as oceans"
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:24:14 +0100   author:   Mark Goodge

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
"nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
news:28Wdnbw3E5KMnVzbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
....
>> Look at the figures. Flying currently accounts for nearly 20 percent
>> of Britain's impact on global warming - and unlike the other factors,
>> it is growing rapidly.
>
> Who quantified Britain's contribution to global warming? The IPCC report 
> could not come up with anything more positive that the opinion that it was 
> likely that there human activities were involved in warmer days and nights 
> and that it was more likely than not that they was involved in other 
> climate change effects. However, it also stated that the extent to which 
> human activities affected the climate change was unknown. If you mean the 
> levels of CO2 generated, that is 20% of 2% - 0.4% of the world output, but 
> you will not get any scientific concensus on whether rising levels of CO2 
> are a cause or an effect of rising temperatures.

It also appears to be a figure that doesn't sanity check.

Is it really possible that my four or five days flying is 20% of
my total output, when I spend the other days, driving 12,000
miles in my car, heating my house, and buying products
manufactured in factories doing much the same, not to
mention living in an a area surrounded by cows belching.

If you shout it loudly enough some may believe it, but I
don't.

tim
date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:15:36 +0100   author:   tim.....

Re: We should all be at Heathrow protesting   
On 14 Aug, 01:14, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> SB  wrot