Yes, although unaccountable policing in the UK is nothing new it is
spreading.

"Local government officials and private security workers have been
given police powers to enforce on-the-spot fines for littering, dog
fouling and motoring offences.

Despite lacking formal police training, hundreds of civilians have
been made part of the "extended police family" by the Home Office
under little-known legislation.

They have not been asked to wear any special uniforms to identify
themselves, but must wear only a badge that can be as small as 73mm x
80mm.

The disclosure that hundreds of civilians have been given enforcement
powers drew accusations that the Government is encouraging the spread
of unaccountable policing..."

More:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2628415/Civilians-given-power-to-issue-on-the-spot-fines.html

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
One man's democracy is another man's regime.

On Aug 27, 8:30 am, Doug  wrote:
> "Local government officials and private security workers have been
> given police powers to enforce on-the-spot fines for littering, dog
> fouling and motoring offences.
>

Yeah , I can see that working. Not. If someone refuses to give their
address what exactly are these people going to do about it? If they
can't detain people (hopefully doing a citizens arrest for dropping
litter doesn't become commonplace) the person can just give them the
finger and walk off and theres b*gger all they can do about it. Looks
like just another stupid scheme by stupid politicians who don't want
to cough up for the real police.

B2003

On 27 Aug, 09:29, Boltar  wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:30 am, Doug  wrote:
>
> > "Local government officials and private security workers have been
> > given police powers to enforce on-the-spot fines for littering, dog
> > fouling and motoring offences.
>
> Yeah , I can see that working. Not. If someone refuses to give their
> address what exactly are these people going to do about it? If they
> can't detain people (hopefully doing a citizens arrest for dropping
> litter doesn't become commonplace) the person can just give them the
> finger and walk off and theres b*gger all they can do about it. Looks
> like just another stupid scheme by stupid politicians who don't want
> to cough up for the real police.
>
You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
trumped up charges.

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
One man's democracy is another man's regime.

Doug  gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

> Yes, although unaccountable policing in the UK is nothing new it is
> spreading.
> 
> "Local government officials and private security workers have been given
> police powers to enforce on-the-spot fines for ... motoring offences.

Isn't that exactly what you've been clamouring for for years?

On Aug 27, 8:30 am, Doug  wrote:
> Yes, although unaccountable policing in the UK is nothing new it is
> spreading.
> The disclosure that hundreds of civilians have been given enforcement
> powers drew accusations that the Government is encouraging the spread
> of unaccountable policing..."

I wonder how long before they target the cyclists in city centers who
break the law.  Thats a cash cow waiting to be milked.

And it would do something useful as well.

Fod

Doug wrote:
> On 27 Aug, 09:29, Boltar  wrote:
>> On Aug 27, 8:30 am, Doug  wrote:
>>
>>> "Local government officials and private security workers have been
>>> given police powers to enforce on-the-spot fines for littering, dog
>>> fouling and motoring offences.
>>
>> Yeah , I can see that working. Not. If someone refuses to give their
>> address what exactly are these people going to do about it? If they
>> can't detain people (hopefully doing a citizens arrest for dropping
>> litter doesn't become commonplace) the person can just give them the
>> finger and walk off and theres b*gger all they can do about it. Looks
>> like just another stupid scheme by stupid politicians who don't want
>> to cough up for the real police.
>>
> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
> trumped up charges.

No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal 
citizen.

Mike P

Doug wrote:

> Yes, although unaccountable policing in the UK is nothing new it is
> spreading.

<shrug>

Traffic wardens are civilians. They've been around, handing out 
on-the-spot fines, for nearly fifty years.

Doug  wrote:

> They have not been asked to wear any special uniforms to identify
> themselves, but must wear only a badge that can be as small as 73mm x
> 80mm.

So when are you getting your badge? It's your wet-dream come true isn't
it?

On 27 Aug, 13:20, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> Doug  wrote:
> > They have not been asked to wear any special uniforms to identify
> > themselves, but must wear only a badge that can be as small as 73mm x
> > 80mm.
>
> So when are you getting your badge? It's your wet-dream come true isn't
> it?

So far today Doug Bollen has fined Doug Bollen:
5 times for cycling on a footpath,
2 times for possession of class 4 fireworks (although Doug claims
these are being used for a peaceful purpose).
8 times for causing harassment, alarm or distress.

Doug Bollen has also attempted to remove 200 "abandoned" vehicles.

However Doug Bollen refused to supply Doug Bollen with his name and
address claiming "I'm not Doug Bollen".

Mike P  wrote:

> > You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
> > intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
> > you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
> > trumped up charges.
> 
> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal
> citizen.

Duhg is attempting obfuscation.

What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
fascist pigs they call the police.
When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a public
order offence.
The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.

According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".

JNugent  wrote:

> Doug wrote:
> 
> > Yes, although unaccountable policing in the UK is nothing new it is
> > spreading.
> 
> <shrug>
> 
> Traffic wardens are civilians. They've been around, handing out 
> on-the-spot fines, for nearly fifty years.

Good point, well made.

Why isn't Duhng a Traffic Warden? He's the ideal material, decrepit,
foul-tempered, abusive, mean-spirited, vindictive and has a god-complex.
They'd give him a uniform so he could strut around, and he'd get to
persecute motorists which would fill him with joy.

All I can guess is that it would require him to do some work and the
workshy lout isn't keen on the 'W' word.

On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:

> Good point, well made.
>
> Why isn't Duhng a Traffic Warden? He's the ideal material, decrepit,
> foul-tempered, abusive, mean-spirited, vindictive and has a god-complex.
> They'd give him a uniform so he could strut around, and he'd get to
> persecute motorists which would fill him with joy.
>
> All I can guess is that it would require him to do some work and the
> workshy lout isn't keen on the 'W' word.

It would also mean that he would have to confront someone in person,
rather from the comfort of his own home.

On Aug 27, 9:37 am, Doug  wrote:
> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang

Any security guard who tried to grab me for some non offense would
find himself face down on the ground with his arm in a lock PDQ. The
only exception would be if he was some 20 stone body builder but other
than that....

B2003

On Aug 27, 12:58 pm, JNugent  wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > Yes, although unaccountable policing in the UK is nothing new it is
> > spreading.
>
> <shrug>
>
> Traffic wardens are civilians. They've been around, handing out
> on-the-spot fines, for nearly fifty years.

Thats only because they can trace the car. If they didn't have that
power the fine would be unenforcable.

B2003

Boltar wrote:
> On Aug 27, 9:37 am, Doug  wrote:
>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
>
> Any security guard who tried to grab me for some non offense would
> find himself face down on the ground with his arm in a lock PDQ. The
> only exception would be if he was some 20 stone body builder but other
> than that....
>
> B2003

Indeed. This has happened to me once after a till person hadn't taken a tag 
off something I'd paid for. Security grabbed me harder than was neccessary. 
Fool. The company involved (Burtons) even called the Police and tried to 
have me for assault.

Mike P

Mike P  wrote:

> The company involved (Burtons) even called the Police and tried to 
> have me for assault.

Hmm, since he laid hands on you first, without cause, you should have
had him for assault.

Steve Firth wrote:
> Mike P  wrote:
>
>> The company involved (Burtons) even called the Police and tried to
>> have me for assault.
>
> Hmm, since he laid hands on you first, without cause, you should have
> had him for assault.

Very true, and this was swiftly pointed out by the kindly coppers who 
attended.

Mike P

Doug wrote:
> On 27 Aug, 09:29, Boltar  wrote:
>> On Aug 27, 8:30 am, Doug  wrote:
>>
>>> "Local government officials and private security workers have been
>>> given police powers to enforce on-the-spot fines for littering, dog
>>> fouling and motoring offences.
>> Yeah , I can see that working. Not. If someone refuses to give their
>> address what exactly are these people going to do about it? If they
>> can't detain people (hopefully doing a citizens arrest for dropping
>> litter doesn't become commonplace) the person can just give them the
>> finger and walk off and theres b*gger all they can do about it. Looks
>> like just another stupid scheme by stupid politicians who don't want
>> to cough up for the real police.
>>
> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
> trumped up charges.
> 
> --
> UK Radical Campaigns
> www.zing.icom43.net
> One man's democracy is another man's regime.
> 

It must be the company you keep, this has never happened to me.

-- 
Tony the Dragon

Fod wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:30 am, Doug  wrote:
>> Yes, although unaccountable policing in the UK is nothing new it is
>> spreading.
>> The disclosure that hundreds of civilians have been given enforcement
>> powers drew accusations that the Government is encouraging the spread
>> of unaccountable policing..."
> 
> I wonder how long before they target the cyclists in city centers who
> break the law.  Thats a cash cow waiting to be milked.
> 
> And it would do something useful as well.
> 
> Fod

Wont happen, cyclists can do no wrong (so I have been told)

-- 
Tony the Dragon

Tony Dragon  wrote:

> Wont happen, cyclists can do no wrong (so I have been told)

Graphic example this morning in the City of Congestion. I was wandering
down the road and passed a copper on a motorbike. A little after this
point a series of cyclists left the road cycled along the pavement,
across the pedestrian crossing and continued down the next pavement.
Several others sailed through the red lights. I asked the copper if he
was going to take any action and he simply ignored me.

Steve Firth wrote:
> Tony Dragon  wrote:
> 
>> Wont happen, cyclists can do no wrong (so I have been told)
> 
> Graphic example this morning in the City of Congestion. I was wandering
> down the road and passed a copper on a motorbike. A little after this
> point a series of cyclists left the road cycled along the pavement,
> across the pedestrian crossing and continued down the next pavement.
> Several others sailed through the red lights. I asked the copper if he
> was going to take any action and he simply ignored me.

Thus proving that cyclists are given special privileges under the law.

-- 
Tony the Dragon

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:48:52 +0100, Tony Dragon
 wrote:

>Thus proving that cyclists are given special privileges under the law.

Under the law, they were not allowed to ride on the pavement. However,
presumably the police were told to leave them alone.

-- 
Alasdair.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:89adnVBEu6v83CjVnZ2dnUVZ8hednZ2d@pipex.net...
> Doug wrote:
>
>> Yes, although unaccountable policing in the UK is nothing new it is
>> spreading.
>
> <shrug>
>
> Traffic wardens are civilians. They've been around, handing out on-the-spot 
> fines, for nearly fifty years.

They also seem to get it wrong a lot more than a fully trained police officer 
if the statistics on successfully challenged parking tickets are anything to 
go by. A perfect demonstration that you still have plenty to fear even if you 
have done nothing wrong.

"Mike P"  wrote in message 
news:6hlcflFk4oq7U1@mid.individual.net...
> Steve Firth wrote:
>> Mike P  wrote:
>>
>>> The company involved (Burtons) even called the Police and tried to
>>> have me for assault.
>>
>> Hmm, since he laid hands on you first, without cause, you should have
>> had him for assault.
>
> Very true, and this was swiftly pointed out by the kindly coppers who 
> attended.

I hope you insisted charges were filed then proceeded to take them for as 
much in damages as possible. It's the new British way.

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:53:21 +0100, Alasdair 
wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:48:52 +0100, Tony Dragon
> wrote:
>
>>Thus proving that cyclists are given special privileges under the law.
>
>Under the law, they were not allowed to ride on the pavement. However,
>presumably the police were told to leave them alone.

Or just plain CBA.


Derek

"Depresion" <127.0.0.1> wrote in message 
news:ePadnd9kS_ybWCjVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
> "Mike P"  wrote in message 
> news:6hlcflFk4oq7U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Steve Firth wrote:
>>> Mike P  wrote:
>>>
>>>> The company involved (Burtons) even called the Police and tried to
>>>> have me for assault.
>>>
>>> Hmm, since he laid hands on you first, without cause, you should have
>>> had him for assault.
>>
>> Very true, and this was swiftly pointed out by the kindly coppers who 
>> attended.
>
> I hope you insisted charges were filed then proceeded to take them for as 
> much in damages as possible. It's the new British way.

heh, no, All this suing people is a load of bollocks don't you think? well, 
unless they *really* deserve it. People fuck things up and make mistakes 
that's life as far as I'm concerned

Mike P

On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> Mike P  wrote:
> > > You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
> > > intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
> > > you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
> > > trumped up charges.
>
> > No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal
> > citizen.
>
> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
>
> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
> fascist pigs they call the police.
> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a public
> order offence.
> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
>
> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".

You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.

Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
searching prams containing babies. They objected and threatened to
smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
was then released.

On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing other
people. If you check you will find that the security guard population
exceeds that of the police themselves.

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
One man's democracy is another man's regime.

Doug wrote:
> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>> Mike P  wrote:
>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
>>>> trumped up charges.
>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal
>>> citizen.
>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
>>
>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
>> fascist pigs they call the police.
>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a public
>> order offence.
>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
>>
>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
> 
> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
> 
> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
> searching prams containing babies. 
Was this happening on a public street?
If so it was probably illegal.

They objected and threatened to
> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
> was then released.

Why racism?

> 
> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing other
> people. 
Public or private areas? please expand on these details.

If you check you will find that the security guard population
> exceeds that of the police themselves.

No idea, please cite sources.
> 
> --
> UK Radical Campaigns
> www.zing.icom43.net
> One man's democracy is another man's regime.
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Tony the Dragon

Depresion wrote:
> "JNugent"  wrote in message
> news:89adnVBEu6v83CjVnZ2dnUVZ8hednZ2d@pipex.net...
>> Doug wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, although unaccountable policing in the UK is nothing new it is
>>> spreading.
>>
>> <shrug>
>>
>> Traffic wardens are civilians. They've been around, handing out
>> on-the-spot fines, for nearly fifty years.
>
> They also seem to get it wrong a lot more than a fully trained police
> officer if the statistics on successfully challenged parking tickets
> are anything to go by. A perfect demonstration that you still have
> plenty to fear even if you have done nothing wrong.

I think that's only come about since Traffic Wardens stopped being attached 
to the police and became proft earning contractors to local government.

On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> >> Mike P  wrote:
> >>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
> >>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
> >>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
> >>>> trumped up charges.
> >>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal
> >>> citizen.
> >> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
>
> >> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
> >> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
> >> fascist pigs they call the police.
> >> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a public
> >> order offence.
> >> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
> >> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
>
> >> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
>
> > You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
>
> > Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
> > photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
> > searching prams containing babies.
>
> Was this happening on a public street?
> If so it was probably illegal.
>
The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
on the street.
>
> They objected and threatened to
>
> > smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
> > the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
> > and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
> > was then released.
>
> Why racism?
>
The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
called him a fascist.
>
>
> > On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing other
> > people.
>
> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>
Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
>
> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>
> > exceeds that of the police themselves.
>
> No idea, please cite sources.
>
Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
disinterested?
>
>

--
World Carfree Network
http://www.worldcarfree.net/
Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.

Doug wrote:
> On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>> Mike P  wrote:
>>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be
>>>>>> very intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who
>>>>>> will bang you up for refusing to give your name and address,
>>>>>> plus a few other trumped up charges.
>>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as
>>>>> a normal citizen.
>>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
>>
>>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
>>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
>>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
>>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a
>>>> public order offence.
>>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
>>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
>>
>>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
>>
>>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
>>
>>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
>>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop
>>> and searching prams containing babies.
>>
>> Was this happening on a public street?
>> If so it was probably illegal.
>>
> The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
> on the street.

What was happening in the park?

>> They objected and threatened to
>>
>>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
>>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for
>>> racism and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their
>>> bluff and was then released.
>>
>> Why racism?
>>
> The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
> called him a fascist.

Why did you call him a "fascist"?

>>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing
>>> other people.
>>
>> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>>
> Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
> etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.

Until recently, the population of this country has largely policed itself.

>> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>>
>>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
>>
>> No idea, please cite sources.
>>
> Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
> disinterested?

You've made the allegation, you support it.

Doug wrote:
> On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>> Mike P  wrote:
>>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
>>>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
>>>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
>>>>>> trumped up charges.
>>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal
>>>>> citizen.
>>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
>>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
>>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
>>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
>>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a public
>>>> order offence.
>>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
>>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
>>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
>>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
>>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
>>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
>>> searching prams containing babies.
>> Was this happening on a public street?
>> If so it was probably illegal.
>>
> The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
> on the street.

What was happening in this park & who or what were the security guards?
>> They objected and threatened to
>>
>>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
>>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
>>> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
>>> was then released.
>> Why racism?
>>
> The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
> called him a fascist.

If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>>
>>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing other
>>> people.
>> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>>
> Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
> etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.

Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing in 
the most the correct thing.

>> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>>
>>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
>> No idea, please cite sources.
>>
> Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
> disinterested?
>>
If I was disinterested I would not ask the question. You made the 
statement, you back it up.
> 
> --
> World Carfree Network
> http://www.worldcarfree.net/
> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
> 


-- 
Tony the Dragon

Doug  wrote:

> I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
> and using a camera, both trumped up charges

But you've admitted that you were using a camera and in the past you
have amply demonstrated your racism. So the police were right.

On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
> >>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> >>>> Mike P  wrote:
> >>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
> >>>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
> >>>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
> >>>>>> trumped up charges.
> >>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal
> >>>>> citizen.
> >>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
> >>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
> >>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
> >>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
> >>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a public
> >>>> order offence.
> >>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
> >>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
> >>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
> >>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
> >>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
> >>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
> >>> searching prams containing babies.
> >> Was this happening on a public street?
> >> If so it was probably illegal.
>
> > The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
> > on the street.
>
> What was happening in this park & who or what were the security guards?
>
Why do you want to know?
>
> >> They objected and threatened to
>
> >>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
> >>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
> >>> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
> >>> was then released.
> >> Why racism?
>
> > The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
> > called him a fascist.
>
> If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>
His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
hide.
>
>
> >>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing other
> >>> people.
> >> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>
> > Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
> > etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
>
> Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing in
> the most the correct thing.
>
Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
and freedom of expression.
>
>
> >> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>
> >>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
> >> No idea, please cite sources.
>
> > Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
> > disinterested?
>
> If I was disinterested I would not ask the question. You made the
> statement, you back it up.
>
>
Frankly, I couldn't care less id you believe it or not. If you don't
want to know what sort of country you are living in its your loss. Why
am I not surprised?
>
> > --
> > World Carfree Network
> >http://www.worldcarfree.net/
> > Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
>

Doug wrote:
> On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>>>> Mike P  wrote:
>>>>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be
>>>>>>>> very intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops
>>>>>>>> who will bang you up for refusing to give your name and
>>>>>>>> address, plus a few other trumped up charges.
>>>>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power
>>>>>>> as a normal citizen.
>>>>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
>>>>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
>>>>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they
>>>>>> are fascist pigs they call the police.
>>>>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a
>>>>>> public order offence.
>>>>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
>>>>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
>>>>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
>>>>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
>>>>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
>>>>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop
>>>>> and searching prams containing babies.
>>>> Was this happening on a public street?
>>>> If so it was probably illegal.
>>
>>> The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I
>>> was on the street.
>>
>> What was happening in this park & who or what were the security
>> guards?
>>
> Why do you want to know?

Because it will determine the reason for the guards being there.

>>>> They objected and threatened to
>>
>>>>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped
>>>>> by the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for
>>>>> racism and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called
>>>>> their bluff and was then released.
>>>> Why racism?
>>
>>> The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
>>> called him a fascist.
>>
>> If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>>
> His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
> hide.

What do you think he was hiding?

>>>>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing
>>>>> other people.
>>>> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>>
>>> Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
>>> etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
>>
>> Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing
>> in the most the correct thing.
>>
> Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
> and freedom of expression.

It depends on how they're behaving, peaceful being the operative word.

>>>> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>>
>>>>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
>>>> No idea, please cite sources.
>>
>>> Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
>>> disinterested?
>>
>> If I was disinterested I would not ask the question. You made the
>> statement, you back it up.
>>
>>
> Frankly, I couldn't care less id you believe it or not.

Does that mean that you don't have a source for another wild claim?

> If you don't
> want to know what sort of country you are living in its your loss. Why
> am I not surprised?

Wanting to know the facts behinf another of your wild claims and wanting to 
know what sort of country we are living in are two different things.

Doug wrote:
> On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>>>> Mike P  wrote:
>>>>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
>>>>>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
>>>>>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
>>>>>>>> trumped up charges.
>>>>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal
>>>>>>> citizen.
>>>>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
>>>>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
>>>>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
>>>>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
>>>>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a public
>>>>>> order offence.
>>>>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
>>>>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
>>>>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
>>>>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
>>>>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
>>>>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
>>>>> searching prams containing babies.
>>>> Was this happening on a public street?
>>>> If so it was probably illegal.
>>> The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
>>> on the street.
>> What was happening in this park & who or what were the security guards?
>>
> Why do you want to know?

Because it would help to determine the problem.

>>>> They objected and threatened to
>>>>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
>>>>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
>>>>> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
>>>>> was then released.
>>>> Why racism?
>>> The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
>>> called him a fascist.
>> If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>>
> His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
> hide.
>>
What is it the would want to hide?

>>>>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing other
>>>>> people.
>>>> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>>> Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
>>> etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
>> Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing in
>> the most the correct thing.
>>
> Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
> and freedom of expression.

Free expression & assembly is OK if it is legal & peaceful.
>>
>>>> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>>>>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
>>>> No idea, please cite sources.
>>> Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
>>> disinterested?
>> If I was disinterested I would not ask the question. You made the
>> statement, you back it up.
>>
>>
> Frankly, I couldn't care less id you believe it or not. 

So you can not back up your claims.

If you don't
> want to know what sort of country you are living in its your loss. Why
> am I not surprised?

You must learn that if you make claims then you will be asked to back 
them up, if you can not do so, say so.


>>> --
>>> World Carfree Network
>>> http://www.worldcarfree.net/
>>> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
> 
> 

I await your reply Doug

-- 
Tony the Dragon

"Doug"  wrote in message 
news:6e822902-d6c0-4853-b031-2e6164fd2db0@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>> > On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>> >> Doug wrote:
>> >>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>> >>>> Mike P  wrote:
>> >>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be 
>> >>>>>> very
>> >>>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will 
>> >>>>>> bang
>> >>>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few 
>> >>>>>> other
>> >>>>>> trumped up charges.
>> >>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a 
>> >>>>> normal
>> >>>>> citizen.
>> >>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
>> >>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
>> >>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
>> >>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
>> >>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a 
>> >>>> public
>> >>>> order offence.
>> >>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
>> >>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
>> >>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
>> >>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
>> >>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
>> >>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
>> >>> searching prams containing babies.
>> >> Was this happening on a public street?
>> >> If so it was probably illegal.
>>
>> > The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
>> > on the street.
>>
>> What was happening in this park & who or what were the security guards?
>>
> Why do you want to know?
>>
>> >> They objected and threatened to
>>
>> >>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
>> >>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
>> >>> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
>> >>> was then released.
>> >> Why racism?
>>
>> > The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
>> > called him a fascist.
>>
>> If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>>
> His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
> hide.
>>
>>
>> >>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing 
>> >>> other
>> >>> people.
>> >> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>>
>> > Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
>> > etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
>>
>> Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing in
>> the most the correct thing.
>>
> Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
> and freedom of expression.
>>
>>
>> >> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>>
>> >>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
>> >> No idea, please cite sources.

For once, Bollen is acutally correct, but it's not hard to fathom  out is 
it, if you think that there's at least a couple in most large stores.

>> > Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
>> > disinterested?
>>
>> If I was disinterested I would not ask the question. You made the
>> statement, you back it up.
>>
>>
> Frankly, I couldn't care less id you believe it or not. If you don't
> want to know what sort of country you are living in its your loss. Why
> am I not surprised?
>>

That's cos you're too thick to find the figures. I know what they are, 
because I found them with about 2 mins of searching google.
Can you do the same?

Mike P

On 28 Aug, 18:07, Doug  wrote:
> On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>
> > Doug wrote:
> > > On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> > >> Doug wrote:
> > >>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> > >>>> Mike P  wrote:
> > >>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
> > >>>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
> > >>>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
> > >>>>>> trumped up charges.
> > >>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal
> > >>>>> citizen.
> > >>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
> > >>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
> > >>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
> > >>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
> > >>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a public
> > >>>> order offence.
> > >>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
> > >>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
> > >>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
> > >>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
> > >>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
> > >>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
> > >>> searching prams containing babies.
> > >> Was this happening on a public street?
> > >> If so it was probably illegal.
>
> > > The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
> > > on the street.
>
> > What was happening in this park & who or what were the security guards?
>
> Why do you want to know?
>
> > >> They objected and threatened to
>
> > >>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
> > >>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
> > >>> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
> > >>> was then released.
> > >> Why racism?
>
> > > The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
> > > called him a fascist.
>
> > If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>
> His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
> hide.
>
> > >>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing other
> > >>> people.
> > >> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>
> > > Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
> > > etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
>
> > Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing in
> > the most the correct thing.
>
> Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
> and freedom of expression.
>

Indymedia had quite a lot of that recently with the anti nazi's trying
to smash a BNP rally.

Fod

Tony Dragon wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>> On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>>> Doug wrote:
>>>> On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>>>>> Mike P  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be 
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will 
>>>>>>>>> bang
>>>>>>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few 
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> trumped up charges.
>>>>>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as 
>>>>>>>> a normal
>>>>>>>> citizen.
>>>>>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
>>>>>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
>>>>>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
>>>>>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
>>>>>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a 
>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>> order offence.
>>>>>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
>>>>>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
>>>>>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
>>>>>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
>>>>>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
>>>>>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
>>>>>> searching prams containing babies.
>>>>> Was this happening on a public street?
>>>>> If so it was probably illegal.
>>>> The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
>>>> on the street.
>>> What was happening in this park & who or what were the security guards?
>>>
>> Why do you want to know?
> 
> Because it would help to determine the problem.
> 
>>>>> They objected and threatened to
>>>>>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
>>>>>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
>>>>>> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
>>>>>> was then released.
>>>>> Why racism?
>>>> The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
>>>> called him a fascist.
>>> If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>>>
>> His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
>> hide.
>>>
> What is it the would want to hide?
> 
>>>>>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing 
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> people.
>>>>> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>>>> Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
>>>> etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
>>> Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing in
>>> the most the correct thing.
>>>
>> Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
>> and freedom of expression.
> 
> Free expression & assembly is OK if it is legal & peaceful.
>>>
>>>>> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>>>>>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
>>>>> No idea, please cite sources.
>>>> Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
>>>> disinterested?
>>> If I was disinterested I would not ask the question. You made the
>>> statement, you back it up.
>>>
>>>
>> Frankly, I couldn't care less id you believe it or not. 
> 
> So you can not back up your claims.
> 
> If you don't
>> want to know what sort of country you are living in its your loss. Why
>> am I not surprised?
> 
> You must learn that if you make claims then you will be asked to back 
> them up, if you can not do so, say so.
> 
> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> World Carfree Network
>>>> http://www.worldcarfree.net/
>>>> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
>>
>>
> 
> I await your reply Doug
> 

Almost five hours, still awaiting your reply Doug, or have I missed it?

-- 
Tony the Dragon

On 28 Aug, 19:40, "Mike P"  wrote:
> "Doug"  wrote in message
>
> news:6e822902-d6c0-4853-b031-2e6164fd2db0@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
> >> > On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> >> >> Doug wrote:
> >> >>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> >> >>>> Mike P  wrote:
> >> >>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be
> >> >>>>>> very
> >> >>>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will
> >> >>>>>> bang
> >> >>>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few
> >> >>>>>> other
> >> >>>>>> trumped up charges.
> >> >>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a
> >> >>>>> normal
> >> >>>>> citizen.
> >> >>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
> >> >>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
> >> >>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
> >> >>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
> >> >>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a
> >> >>>> public
> >> >>>> order offence.
> >> >>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
> >> >>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
> >> >>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
> >> >>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
> >> >>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
> >> >>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
> >> >>> searching prams containing babies.
> >> >> Was this happening on a public street?
> >> >> If so it was probably illegal.
>
> >> > The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
> >> > on the street.
>
> >> What was happening in this park & who or what were the security guards> > Why do you want to know?
>
> >> >> They objected and threatened to
>
> >> >>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
> >> >>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
> >> >>> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
> >> >>> was then released.
> >> >> Why racism?
>
> >> > The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
> >> > called him a fascist.
>
> >> If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>
> > His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
> > hide.
>
> >> >>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing
> >> >>> other
> >> >>> people.
> >> >> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>
> >> > Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
> >> > etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
>
> >> Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing in
> >> the most the correct thing.
>
> > Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
> > and freedom of expression.
>
> >> >> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>
> >> >>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
> >> >> No idea, please cite sources.
>
> For once, Bollen is acutally correct, but it's not hard to fathom  out is
> it, if you think that there's at least a couple in most large stores.
>
> >> > Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
> >> > disinterested?
>
> >> If I was disinterested I would not ask the question. You made the
> >> statement, you back it up.
>
> > Frankly, I couldn't care less id you believe it or not. If you don't
> > want to know what sort of country you are living in its your loss. Why
> > am I not surprised?
>
> That's cos you're too thick to find the figures. I know what they are,
> because I found them with about 2 mins of searching google.
> Can you do the same?
>
Where/when did you think I came up with the knowledge in the first
place, long before the thought even began to enter your head?

BTW it wasn't Bollen it was me.

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
One man's democracy is another man's regime.

On 28 Aug, 18:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
> >>> On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> >>>> Doug wrote:
> >>>>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> >>>>>> Mike P  wrote:
> >>>>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
> >>>>>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
> >>>>>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
> >>>>>>>> trumped up charges.
> >>>>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal
> >>>>>>> citizen.
> >>>>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
> >>>>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
> >>>>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
> >>>>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
> >>>>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a public
> >>>>>> order offence.
> >>>>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
> >>>>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
> >>>>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
> >>>>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
> >>>>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
> >>>>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
> >>>>> searching prams containing babies.
> >>>> Was this happening on a public street?
> >>>> If so it was probably illegal.
> >>> The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
> >>> on the street.
> >> What was happening in this park & who or what were the security guards?
>
> > Why do you want to know?
>
> Because it would help to determine the problem.
>
The problem is obvious.
>
> >>>> They objected and threatened to
> >>>>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
> >>>>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
> >>>>> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
> >>>>> was then released.
> >>>> Why racism?
> >>> The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
> >>> called him a fascist.
> >> If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>
> > His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
> > hide.
>
> What is it the would want to hide?
>
Malpractice?
>
> >>>>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing other
> >>>>> people.
> >>>> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
> >>> Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
> >>> etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
> >> Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing in
> >> the most the correct thing.
>
> > Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
> > and freedom of expression.
>
> Free expression & assembly is OK if it is legal & peaceful.
>
There is a plethora of laws in the UK which prevent peaceful free
expression and assembly and the police frequently misuse them when
called upon by the civilians in question.
>
>
> >>>> If you check you will find that the security guard population
> >>>>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
> >>>> No idea, please cite sources.
> >>> Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
> >>> disinterested?
> >> If I was disinterested I would not ask the question. You made the
> >> statement, you back it up.
>
> > Frankly, I couldn't care less id you believe it or not.
>
> So you can not back up your claims.
>
> If you don't
>
> > want to know what sort of country you are living in its your loss. Why
> > am I not surprised?
>
> You must learn that if you make claims then you will be asked to back
> them up, if you can not do so, say so.
>
I am not making a claim I am stating an easily verifiable fact. It is
not my concern if you wish to remain ignorant.
>
> I await your reply Doug
>
Along with all the other motorists who dominate this transport
newsgroup. Too many to respond to.

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
One man's democracy is another man's regime.

On 29 Aug, 07:29, Doug  wrote:
> On 28 Aug, 18:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>
> > Doug wrote:
> > > On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> > >> Doug wrote:
> > >>> On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> > >>>> Doug wrote:
> > >>>>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> > >>>>>> Mike P  wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
> > >>>>>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
> > >>>>>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
> > >>>>>>>> trumped up charges.
> > >>>>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal
> > >>>>>>> citizen.
> > >>>>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
> > >>>>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
> > >>>>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
> > >>>>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
> > >>>>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a public
> > >>>>>> order offence.
> > >>>>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
> > >>>>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
> > >>>>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
> > >>>>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
> > >>>>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
> > >>>>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
> > >>>>> searching prams containing babies.
> > >>>> Was this happening on a public street?
> > >>>> If so it was probably illegal.
> > >>> The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
> > >>> on the street.
> > >> What was happening in this park & who or what were the security guards?
>
> > > Why do you want to know?
>
> > Because it would help to determine the problem.
>
> The problem is obvious.
>
>
>
> > >>>> They objected and threatened to
> > >>>>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
> > >>>>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
> > >>>>> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
> > >>>>> was then released.
> > >>>> Why racism?
> > >>> The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
> > >>> called him a fascist.
> > >> If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>
> > > His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
> > > hide.
>
> > What is it the would want to hide?
>
> Malpractice?
>
> > >>>>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing other
> > >>>>> people.
> > >>>> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
> > >>> Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
> > >>> etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
> > >> Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing in
> > >> the most the correct thing.
>
> > > Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
> > > and freedom of expression.
>
> > Free expression & assembly is OK if it is legal & peaceful.
>
> There is a plethora of laws in the UK which prevent peaceful free
> expression and assembly and the police frequently misuse them when
> called upon by the civilians in question.
>
>
>
> > >>>> If you check you will find that the security guard population
> > >>>>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
> > >>>> No idea, please cite sources.
> > >>> Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
> > >>> disinterested?
> > >> If I was disinterested I would not ask the question. You made the
> > >> statement, you back it up.
>
> > > Frankly, I couldn't care less id you believe it or not.
>
> > So you can not back up your claims.
>
> > If you don't
>
> > > want to know what sort of country you are living in its your loss. Why
> > > am I not surprised?
>
> > You must learn that if you make claims then you will be asked to back
> > them up, if you can not do so, say so.
>
> I am not making a claim I am stating an easily verifiable fact. It is
> not my concern if you wish to remain ignorant.

If its an easy to verify fact why not post a link?

> > I await your reply Doug
>
> Along with all the other motorists who dominate this transport
> newsgroup. Too many to respond to.

You rarely respond to me and I'm a non motorist like yourself.

Fod

Doug wrote:
> On 28 Aug, 18:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>> On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>>>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>>>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>>>>>> Mike P  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be very
>>>>>>>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will bang
>>>>>>>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few other
>>>>>>>>>> trumped up charges.
>>>>>>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as a normal
>>>>>>>>> citizen.
>>>>>>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
>>>>>>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
>>>>>>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
>>>>>>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
>>>>>>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a public
>>>>>>>> order offence.
>>>>>>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
>>>>>>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
>>>>>>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
>>>>>>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
>>>>>>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
>>>>>>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop and
>>>>>>> searching prams containing babies.
>>>>>> Was this happening on a public street?
>>>>>> If so it was probably illegal.
>>>>> The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
>>>>> on the street.
>>>> What was happening in this park & who or what were the security guards?
>>> Why do you want to know?
>> Because it would help to determine the problem.
>>
> The problem is obvious.

Oh indulge me Doug, spell it out, don't forget according to you I am a 
thick motorist who needs educating.

>>>>>> They objected and threatened to
>>>>>>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped by
>>>>>>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for racism
>>>>>>> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff and
>>>>>>> was then released.
>>>>>> Why racism?
>>>>> The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
>>>>> called him a fascist.
>>>> If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>>> His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
>>> hide.
>> What is it the would want to hide?
>>
> Malpractice?

You will have to help me out on this one.

>>>>>>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing other
>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>>>>> Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
>>>>> etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
>>>> Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing in
>>>> the most the correct thing.
>>> Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
>>> and freedom of expression.
>> Free expression & assembly is OK if it is legal & peaceful.
>>
> There is a plethora of laws in the UK which prevent peaceful free
> expression and assembly and the police frequently misuse them when
> called upon by the civilians in question.

If you say so, but I have had no problems.

>>
>>>>>> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>>>>>>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
>>>>>> No idea, please cite sources.
>>>>> Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
>>>>> disinterested?
>>>> If I was disinterested I would not ask the question. You made the
>>>> statement, you back it up.
>>> Frankly, I couldn't care less id you believe it or not.
>> So you can not back up your claims.
>>
>> If you don't
>>
>>> want to know what sort of country you are living in its your loss. Why
>>> am I not surprised?
>> You must learn that if you make claims then you will be asked to back
>> them up, if you can not do so, say so.
>>
> I am not making a claim I am stating an easily verifiable fact. It is
> not my concern if you wish to remain ignorant.

Then verify it.


>> I await your reply Doug
>>
> Along with all the other motorists who dominate this transport
> newsgroup. Too many to respond to.
> 
> --
> UK Radical Campaigns
> www.zing.icom43.net
> One man's democracy is another man's regime.
> 
> 
But you have responded, given no answers but responded.

-- 
Tony the Dragon

Brimstone wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>> On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>>> Doug wrote:
>>>> On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
>>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>>>>>>> Mike P  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be
>>>>>>>>> very intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops
>>>>>>>>> who will bang you up for refusing to give your name and
>>>>>>>>> address, plus a few other trumped up charges.
>>>>>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power
>>>>>>>> as a normal citizen.
>>>>>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
>>>>>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
>>>>>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they
>>>>>>> are fascist pigs they call the police.
>>>>>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a
>>>>>>> public order offence.
>>>>>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
>>>>>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
>>>>>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
>>>>>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
>>>>>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
>>>>>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop
>>>>>> and searching prams containing babies.
>>>>> Was this happening on a public street?
>>>>> If so it was probably illegal.
>>>
>>>> The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I
>>>> was on the street.
>>>
>>> What was happening in this park & who or what were the security
>>> guards?
>>>
>> Why do you want to know?
>
> Because it will determine the reason for the guards being there.
>
>>>>> They objected and threatened to
>>>
>>>>>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped
>>>>>> by the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for
>>>>>> racism and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called
>>>>>> their bluff and was then released.
>>>>> Why racism?
>>>
>>>> The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
>>>> called him a fascist.
>>>
>>> If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>>>
>> His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
>> hide.
>
> What do you think he was hiding?
>
>>>>>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing
>>>>>> other people.
>>>>> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>>>
>>>> Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
>>>> etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
>>>
>>> Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing
>>> in the most the correct thing.
>>>
>> Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
>> and freedom of expression.
>
> It depends on how they're behaving, peaceful being the operative word.
>
>>>>> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>>>
>>>>>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
>>>>> No idea, please cite sources.
>>>
>>>> Are you too lazy to find out for yourself or just completely
>>>> disinterested?
>>>
>>> If I was disinterested I would not ask the question. You made the
>>> statement, you back it up.
>>>
>>>
>> Frankly, I couldn't care less id you believe it or not.
>
> Does that mean that you don't have a source for another wild claim?
>
>> If you don't
>> want to know what sort of country you are living in its your loss.
>> Why am I not surprised?
>
> Wanting to know the facts behinf another of your wild claims and
> wanting to know what sort of country we are living in are two
> different things.

No response then Doug?

Doug  wrote:

> >
> > I await your reply Doug
> >
> Along with all the other motorists who dominate this transport
> newsgroup. Too many to respond to.

<snork>

Liar, hypocrite, humbug.

"Doug"  wrote in message 
news:02a148ae-fe5b-4c39-b33e-5f188f16f9e4@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On 28 Aug, 19:40, "Mike P"  wrote:
> "Doug"  wrote in message
>
> news:6e822902-d6c0-4853-b031-2e6164fd2db0@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On 28 Aug, 08:34, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
> >> > On 28 Aug, 07:32, Tony Dragon  wrote:
> >> >> Doug wrote:
> >> >>> On 27 Aug, 13:58, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> >> >>>> Mike P  wrote:
> >> >>>>>> You obviously have no experience of security guards who can be
> >> >>>>>> very
> >> >>>>>> intimidating and all they have to do is radio the cops who will
> >> >>>>>> bang
> >> >>>>>> you up for refusing to give your name and address, plus a few
> >> >>>>>> other
> >> >>>>>> trumped up charges.
> >> >>>>> No, they can't. A security guard has precisely the same power as 
> >> >>>>> a
> >> >>>>> normal
> >> >>>>> citizen.
> >> >>>> Duhg is attempting obfuscation.
> >> >>>> What he means is that he finds security guards intimidating.
> >> >>>> If he attempts to browbeat them by screaming at them that they are
> >> >>>> fascist pigs they call the police.
> >> >>>> When the police arrive they point out that Duhng is guilty of a
> >> >>>> public
> >> >>>> order offence.
> >> >>>> The police then ask Duhng for his name and address.
> >> >>>> When Duhng refuses to give these details the police arrest him.
> >> >>>> According to Duhng these are "trumped up charges".
> >> >>> You are quite wrong as usual, Filth.
> >> >>> Here is just one example. While on a public street I attempted to
> >> >>> photograph unidentifiable security guards in action who were stop 
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> searching prams containing babies.
> >> >> Was this happening on a public street?
> >> >> If so it was probably illegal.
>
> >> > The guards were just inside the entrance to a public park while I was
> >> > on the street.
>
> >> What was happening in this park & who or what were the security guards?
>
> > Why do you want to know?
>
> >> >> They objected and threatened to
>
> >> >>> smash my camera. I escaped from them on a bicycle but was stopped 
> >> >>> by
> >> >>> the police just up the road and was threatened with arrest for 
> >> >>> racism
> >> >>> and using a camera, both trumped up charges. I called their bluff 
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> was then released.
> >> >> Why racism?
>
> >> > The one who threatened to smash my camera was black and I merely
> >> > called him a fascist.
>
> >> If that is completely true his reaction was at the least ooo.
>
> > His reaction was typical of security guards who have something to
> > hide.
>
> >> >>> On numerous other occasions I have witnessed non-police policing
> >> >>> other
> >> >>> people.
> >> >> Public or private areas? please expand on these details.
>
> >> > Public areas. GLA goons, police volunteers, members of the public,
> >> > etc., all of whom phone the cops on the slightest pretext.
>
> >> Sounds like the people policing themselves, being observant & doing in
> >> the most the correct thing.
>
> > Or, people interfering with the peaceful human right to free assembly
> > and freedom of expression.
>
> >> >> If you check you will find that the security guard population
>
> >> >>> exceeds that of the police themselves.
> >> >> No idea, please cite sources.
>
> For once, Bollen is acutally