Contrary to popular belief the streets do not belong to motorists,
even though they are allowed to leave their cars lying about on them
24/7 often for free.

"A car owner who put a for-sale note on his Ford Escort soon found
another sign on the window - a £100 penalty ticket.

Victor Abrahams was accused of 'offering goods for sale in a parking
place'.

When the 67-year-old grandfather called the council, he was told the
offence had been introduced a year ago and had been advertised in the
local paper.

But as he does not live in the North London borough of Barnet, he says
he had no idea that new rules had been brought in..."

More:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1030410/Grandfather-For-Sale-sign-car-window-given-100-fine-running-street-business.html

--
World Carfree Network
http://www.worldcarfree.net/
Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.

Doug wrote:
> Contrary to popular belief the streets do not belong to motorists,
> even though they are allowed to leave their cars lying about on them
> 24/7 often for free.
> 
> "A car owner who put a for-sale note on his Ford Escort soon found
> another sign on the window - a £100 penalty ticket.
> 
> Victor Abrahams was accused of 'offering goods for sale in a parking
> place'.
> 
> When the 67-year-old grandfather called the council, he was told the
> offence had been introduced a year ago and had been advertised in the
> local paper.
> 
> But as he does not live in the North London borough of Barnet, he says
> he had no idea that new rules had been brought in..."
> 
> More:
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1030410/Grandfather-For-Sale-sign-car-window-given-100-fine-running-street-business.html
> 
> --
> World Carfree Network
> http://www.worldcarfree.net/
> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
> 


Old news, but there it is the Mail

-- 
Tony the Dragon

Doug wrote:
> Contrary to popular belief the streets do not belong to motorists,
> even though they are allowed to leave their cars lying about on them
> 24/7 often for free.
>
And it makes you happy that a destitute pensioner was fined for no good 
reason?

On Jun 30, 8:48 am, "Brimstone"  wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > Contrary to popular belief the streets do not belong to motorists,
> > even though they are allowed to leave their cars lying about on them
> > 24/7 often for free.
>
> And it makes you happy that a destitute pensioner was fined for no good
> reason?

odd that Doug gets joy from someone trying to get rid of a car...

Fod

Fod wrote:
> On Jun 30, 8:48 am, "Brimstone"  wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> Contrary to popular belief the streets do not belong to motorists,
>>> even though they are allowed to leave their cars lying about on them
>>> 24/7 often for free.
>>
>> And it makes you happy that a destitute pensioner was fined for no
>> good reason?
>
> odd that Doug gets joy from someone trying to get rid of a car...
>
Indeed, one would have expected Doug to have berated the council for trying 
to prevent a citizen becoming less hypermobile.

"Fod"  wrote in message 
news:57a8daa7-89b3-409f-8290-82cbbff5a09e@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 30, 8:48 am, "Brimstone"  wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > Contrary to popular belief the streets do not belong to motorists,
> > even though they are allowed to leave their cars lying about on them
> > 24/7 often for free.
>
> And it makes you happy that a destitute pensioner was fined for no good
> reason?

>odd that Doug gets joy from someone trying to get rid of a car...

It's that old hypocrisy coming out again ..

Mike P

"Doug"  wrote in message 
news:6ea6defc-ecc1-4b33-ae10-e8a317044c82@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
...
> "A car owner who put a for-sale note on his Ford Escort soon found
> another sign on the window - a £100 penalty ticket.
...

It has long been an offence to sell cars from the road. The only change I 
can see from 50 years ago, is that it has now become a fixed penalty 
offence. In the 1960s it could take a couple of weeks to get the necessary 
paperwork done, by which time the car had often been sold.

Colin Bignell

"nightjar .me.uk>" <cpb@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
news:ApydnToij4lHi_TVnZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Doug"  wrote in message 
> news:6ea6defc-ecc1-4b33-ae10-e8a317044c82@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> ...
>> "A car owner who put a for-sale note on his Ford Escort soon found
>> another sign on the window - a £100 penalty ticket.
> ...
>
> It has long been an offence to sell cars from the road. The only change I 
> can see from 50 years ago, is that it has now become a fixed penalty 
> offence.

Well I never knew that. So every time you see a car with a For Sale sign in 
the window, it's breaking the law if the car is on the "public highway"? 
What a stupid law! Does advertising the car, with the sale taking place at 
your own house (off the road) actually constitute "*selling* cars from the 
road"? Does the law distinguish between advertising for a private sale and 
carrying out a business where the road become an extension of your business 
premises, with the test drive and the sale taking place on the roadside? 
Knowing our perverse laws, it probably doesn't!

What is the law about vans that have company name and contact details on the 
side or cars with an advert for a business in the window - is it technically 
an offence to advertise your company this way on the public highway? Nothing 
would surprise me.

We are rapidly becoming a nation where just about anything that you do runs 
the risk of falling foul of one petty jumped-up law or another.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:32:59 +0100, Mortimer wrote
(in article <ZZmdnSXy9KtOhfTVnZ2dnUVZ8hmdnZ2d@posted.plusnet>):

> "nightjar .me.uk>" <cpb@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
> news:ApydnToij4lHi_TVnZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> 
>> "Doug"  wrote in message 
>> news:6ea6defc-ecc1-4b33-ae10-e8a317044c82@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> ...
>>> "A car owner who put a for-sale note on his Ford Escort soon found
>>> another sign on the window - a £100 penalty ticket.
>> ...
>> 
>> It has long been an offence to sell cars from the road. The only change I 
>> can see from 50 years ago, is that it has now become a fixed penalty 
>> offence.
> 
> Well I never knew that. So every time you see a car with a For Sale sign in 
> the window, it's breaking the law if the car is on the "public highway"? 
> What a stupid law! Does advertising the car, with the sale taking place at 
> your own house (off the road) actually constitute "*selling* cars from the 
> road"? Does the law distinguish between advertising for a private sale and 
> carrying out a business where the road become an extension of your business 
> premises, with the test drive and the sale taking place on the roadside? 
> Knowing our perverse laws, it probably doesn't!
> 
> What is the law about vans that have company name and contact details on the 
> side or cars with an advert for a business in the window - is it technically 
> an offence to advertise your company this way on the public highway? Nothing 
> would surprise me.
> 
> We are rapidly becoming a nation where just about anything that you do runs 
> the risk of falling foul of one petty jumped-up law or another. 
> 
> 

The purpose of the law was to protect rate paying and tax paying second hand 
dealers from unfair trading, I don't think it has ever been applied to an 
individual who occasionally sold his private car.

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"nik.morgan"  wrote in message 
news:0001HW.C48EE3AC004A2D12F02845B0@free.teranews.com...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:32:59 +0100, Mortimer wrote
> (in article

>> Well I never knew that. So every time you see a car with a For Sale sign 
>> in
>> the window, it's breaking the law if the car is on the "public highway"?
>> What a stupid law! Does advertising the car, with the sale taking place 
>> at
>> your own house (off the road) actually constitute "*selling* cars from 
>> the
>> road"? Does the law distinguish between advertising for a private sale 
>> and
>> carrying out a business where the road become an extension of your 
>> business
>> premises, with the test drive and the sale taking place on the roadside?
>> Knowing our perverse laws, it probably doesn't!
>>
>
> The purpose of the law was to protect rate paying and tax paying second 
> hand
> dealers from unfair trading, I don't think it has ever been applied to an
> individual who occasionally sold his private car.

... until now! People are find all sorts of ways to apply existing laws in 
ways that were never intended.

"nik.morgan"  wrote in message 
news:0001HW.C48EE3AC004A2D12F02845B0@free.teranews.com...
...
> The purpose of the law was to protect rate paying and tax paying second 
> hand
> dealers from unfair trading, I don't think it has ever been applied to an
> individual who occasionally sold his private car.

My recollection was that it was more to do with protecting the buyer from 
sellers who could not be traced after the event. I don't recall anyone 
except rogue traders advertising cars for sale on the road in the 1960s. If 
you wanted to sell one privately, you used the small ads in a shop window or 
local newspaper.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:32:59 +0100, Mortimer wrote:
> "nightjar .me.uk>" <cpb@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
> news:ApydnToij4lHi_TVnZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Doug"  wrote in message 
>> news:6ea6defc-ecc1-4b33-ae10-e8a317044c82@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> ...
>>> "A car owner who put a for-sale note on his Ford Escort soon found
>>> another sign on the window - a £100 penalty ticket.
>> ...
>>
>> It has long been an offence to sell cars from the road. The only change I 
>> can see from 50 years ago, is that it has now become a fixed penalty 
>> offence.
>
> Well I never knew that. So every time you see a car with a For Sale sign in 
> the window, it's breaking the law if the car is on the "public highway"? 
> What a stupid law! Does advertising the car, with the sale taking place at 
> your own house (off the road) actually constitute "*selling* cars from the 
> road"? Does the law distinguish between advertising for a private sale and 
> carrying out a business where the road become an extension of your business 
> premises, with the test drive and the sale taking place on the roadside? 
> Knowing our perverse laws, it probably doesn't!
>
> What is the law about vans that have company name and contact details on the 
> side or cars with an advert for a business in the window - is it technically 
> an offence to advertise your company this way on the public highway? Nothing 
> would surprise me.
>
> We are rapidly becoming a nation where just about anything that you do runs 
> the risk of falling foul of one petty jumped-up law or another. 
>
And by extension if it's illegal to sell _things_ "on the street" without a 
permit, does this make house for sale signs illegal for the same reasons?
Or is it merely one or two local councils trying to find more ways to make
money?


-- 
. Pete Lynch          I have learned from my mistakes and
. Marlow          ... I am sure I can repeat them exactly
. www.pete-lynch.com               --- Peter Cooke.

"Peter Lynch" <pete@freyr.local> wrote in message 
news:slrng6inr1.a5l.pete@freyr.local...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:32:59 +0100, Mortimer wrote:
...
>> What is the law about vans that have company name and contact details on 
>> the
>> side or cars with an advert for a business in the window - is it 
>> technically
>> an offence to advertise your company this way on the public highway?
...
> And by extension if it's illegal to sell _things_ "on the street" without 
> a
> permit, does this make house for sale signs illegal for the same reasons?
...

House sale signs are specifically permitted under Class 3A of Schedule 3 to 
The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 1992. 
Similarly, business adverts on vehicles are permitted under Schedule 2, 
provided the advertising is subsidiary to the main use of the vehicle.

Colin Bignell

nightjar <cpb@ wrote:
> "Peter Lynch" <pete@freyr.local> wrote in message 
> news:slrng6inr1.a5l.pete@freyr.local...
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:32:59 +0100, Mortimer wrote:
> ...
>>> What is the law about vans that have company name and contact details on 
>>> the
>>> side or cars with an advert for a business in the window - is it 
>>> technically
>>> an offence to advertise your company this way on the public highway?
> ...
>> And by extension if it's illegal to sell _things_ "on the street" without 
>> a
>> permit, does this make house for sale signs illegal for the same reasons?
> ...
> 
> House sale signs are specifically permitted under Class 3A of Schedule 3 to 
> The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 1992.

That's the town and country planning legislation - it simply means you 
can't get done for a planning violation by displaying a For Sale board.

It does not mean that you can't get done under whatever law outlaws 
selling goods on the public highway. But perhaps a house cannot be "goods".

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:SPidnSTf5pIq9fTVnZ2dnUVZ8uGdnZ2d@pipex.net...
> nightjar <cpb@ wrote:
>> "Peter Lynch" <pete@freyr.local> wrote in message 
>> news:slrng6inr1.a5l.pete@freyr.local...
>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:32:59 +0100, Mortimer wrote:
>> ...
>>>> What is the law about vans that have company name and contact details 
>>>> on the
>>>> side or cars with an advert for a business in the window - is it 
>>>> technically
>>>> an offence to advertise your company this way on the public highway?
>> ...
>>> And by extension if it's illegal to sell _things_ "on the street" 
>>> without a
>>> permit, does this make house for sale signs illegal for the same 
>>> reasons?
>> ...
>>
>> House sale signs are specifically permitted under Class 3A of Schedule 3 
>> to The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 
>> 1992.
>
> That's the town and country planning legislation - it simply means you 
> can't get done for a planning violation by displaying a For Sale board.
>
> It does not mean that you can't get done under whatever law outlaws 
> selling goods on the public highway. But perhaps a house cannot be 
> "goods".

The question asked was whether the signs were illegal, which they are not. 
The sale of a house is not illegal under the legislation controlling the 
sale of goods on the public highway because the house is not on the public 
highway. It is on land adjacent to the public highway. Similarly, there 
would have been no offence if the car sale advert had only been displayed 
while it was on private land, although the advert would have had to be less 
than 0.1 sq m in area to be exempt from the need to obtain planning 
permission.

Colin Bignell

On 1 Jul, 02:17, "nightjar" <cpb@<insert my surname here>.me.uk>
wrote:
> "JNugent"  wrote in message
>
> news:SPidnSTf5pIq9fTVnZ2dnUVZ8uGdnZ2d@pipex.net...
>
>
>
> > nightjar <cpb@ wrote:
> >> "Peter Lynch" <p...@freyr.local> wrote in message
> >>news:slrng6inr1.a5l.pete@freyr.local...
> >>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:32:59 +0100, Mortimer wrote:
> >> ...
> >>>> What is the law about vans that have company name and contact details
> >>>> on the
> >>>> side or cars with an advert for a business in the window - is it
> >>>> technically
> >>>> an offence to advertise your company this way on the public highway?
> >> ...
> >>> And by extension if it's illegal to sell _things_ "on the street"
> >>> without a
> >>> permit, does this make house for sale signs illegal for the same
> >>> reasons?
> >> ...
>
> >> House sale signs are specifically permitted under Class 3A of Schedule 3
> >> to The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations
> >> 1992.
>
> > That's the town and country planning legislation - it simply means you
> > can't get done for a planning violation by displaying a For Sale board.
>
> > It does not mean that you can't get done under whatever law outlaws
> > selling goods on the public highway. But perhaps a house cannot be
> > "goods".
>
> The question asked was whether the signs were illegal, which they are not.
> The sale of a house is not illegal under the legislation controlling the
> sale of goods on the public highway because the house is not on the public
> highway. It is on land adjacent to the public highway. Similarly, there
> would have been no offence if the car sale advert had only been displayed
> while it was on private land, although the advert would have had to be less
> than 0.1 sq m in area to be exempt from the need to obtain planning
> permission.
>
Many thanks for those who have conducted a sensible discussion on the
subject, instead of the more usual diversionary personal abuse.

It does seem a mystery to me that motorists are allowed to street
garage their cars 24/7 for free on public highways, thus creating a
hazard and contributing to congestion, but it is good that they are
taken to task for also trying to turn the practice into some sort of a
business.

--
World Carfree Network
http://www.worldcarfree.net/
Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.

Fod wrote:
> On Jun 30, 8:48 am, "Brimstone"  wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> Contrary to popular belief the streets do not belong to motorists,
>>> even though they are allowed to leave their cars lying about on them
>>> 24/7 often for free.
>> And it makes you happy that a destitute pensioner was fined for no good
>> reason?
> 
> odd that Doug gets joy from someone trying to get rid of a car...

The old boy should have left the car to rust outside his house, like 
Doug with his fridges

-- 
Abo

Doug wrote:
> On 1 Jul, 02:17, "nightjar" <cpb@<insert my surname here>.me.uk>
> wrote:
>> "JNugent"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:SPidnSTf5pIq9fTVnZ2dnUVZ8uGdnZ2d@pipex.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>> nightjar <cpb@ wrote:
>>>> "Peter Lynch" <p...@freyr.local> wrote in message
>>>> news:slrng6inr1.a5l.pete@freyr.local...
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:32:59 +0100, Mortimer wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>>> What is the law about vans that have company name and contact
>>>>>> details on the
>>>>>> side or cars with an advert for a business in the window - is it
>>>>>> technically
>>>>>> an offence to advertise your company this way on the public
>>>>>> highway?
>>>> ...
>>>>> And by extension if it's illegal to sell _things_ "on the street"
>>>>> without a
>>>>> permit, does this make house for sale signs illegal for the same
>>>>> reasons?
>>>> ...
>>
>>>> House sale signs are specifically permitted under Class 3A of
>>>> Schedule 3 to The Town and Country Planning (Control of
>>>> Advertisements) Regulations 1992.
>>
>>> That's the town and country planning legislation - it simply means
>>> you can't get done for a planning violation by displaying a For
>>> Sale board.
>>
>>> It does not mean that you can't get done under whatever law outlaws
>>> selling goods on the public highway. But perhaps a house cannot be
>>> "goods".
>>
>> The question asked was whether the signs were illegal, which they
>> are not. The sale of a house is not illegal under the legislation
>> controlling the sale of goods on the public highway because the
>> house is not on the public highway. It is on land adjacent to the
>> public highway. Similarly, there would have been no offence if the
>> car sale advert had only been displayed while it was on private
>> land, although the advert would have had to be less than 0.1 sq m in
>> area to be exempt from the need to obtain planning permission.
>>
> Many thanks for those who have conducted a sensible discussion on the
> subject, instead of the more usual diversionary personal abuse.

OK this far.

> It does seem a mystery to me that motorists are allowed to street
> garage their cars 24/7 for free on public highways, thus creating a
> hazard and contributing to congestion, but it is good that they are
> taken to task for also trying to turn the practice into some sort of a
> business.

Then you have to introduce abuse.

Why Doug?

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 06:17:10 +0100, Doug wrote
(in article 
):

>> 
> Many thanks for those who have conducted a sensible discussion on the
> subject, instead of the more usual diversionary personal abuse

Liar!!!

> 
> It does seem a mystery to me that motorists are allowed to street
> garage their cars 24/7 for free on public highways, thus creating a
> hazard and contributing to congestion, but it is good that they are
> taken to task for also trying to turn the practice into some sort of a
> business.
> 

How many more times, any motor vehicle on the public road needs a tax disc, 
these are not free, the vehicle can and (in the case of your borough will) be 
removed and after process, crushed. Therefore 'street garaging' is not free 
by any stretch of the imagination.

Vehicles left in hazardous situations are liable to be removed and a 
substantial fee demanded for their return, similarly parked, or if you 
prefer, 'street garaged' vehicles causing obstruction leading to congestion 
will also be removed.

So your entire post is complete bollox except for the last phrase and in that 
I agree with you, these laws have been in force for many years, at least as 
far back as I can remember. I seem to recall Mr Bignall's contribution coming 
up at some point many years ago. 

There is a burgeoning amount of roadside car retailing, IMO this is linked to 
the downturn in general business and the sharp increase in costs we have been 
experiencing. Now every chav and his brother is trying to punt something or 
other to supplement the old 'rock and roll'. 

It would be interesting to see the problem attacked in another way, the 
sellers traced (can't be difficult, even for a town council clerk) and their 
benefits curtailed whilst they continue to engage in the business of car 
retail. Once there were a few cases like this reported in the Daily Wail the 
incidences will plummet.
NM



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Mortimer"  wrote in message 
news:ZZmdnSXy9KtOhfTVnZ2dnUVZ8hmdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> "nightjar .me.uk>" <cpb@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
> news:ApydnToij4lHi_TVnZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Doug"  wrote in message 
>> news:6ea6defc-ecc1-4b33-ae10-e8a317044c82@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> ...
>>> "A car owner who put a for-sale note on his Ford Escort soon found
>>> another sign on the window - a £100 penalty ticket.
>> ...
>>
>> It has long been an offence to sell cars from the road. The only change I 
>> can see from 50 years ago, is that it has now become a fixed penalty 
>> offence.
>
> Well I never knew that. So every time you see a car with a For Sale sign 
> in the window, it's breaking the law if the car is on the "public 
> highway"? What a stupid law!....
> We are rapidly becoming a nation where just about anything that you do 
> runs the risk of falling foul of one petty jumped-up law or another.

Laws controlling street trading date back to medieval times. This is merely 
a variant that addresses modern day practices

Colin Bignell

Doug wrote:
> On 1 Jul, 02:17, "nightjar" <cpb@<insert my surname here>.me.uk>
> wrote:
>> "JNugent"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:SPidnSTf5pIq9fTVnZ2dnUVZ8uGdnZ2d@pipex.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>> nightjar <cpb@ wrote:
>>>> "Peter Lynch" <p...@freyr.local> wrote in message
>>>> news:slrng6inr1.a5l.pete@freyr.local...
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:32:59 +0100, Mortimer wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>>> What is the law about vans that have company name and contact details
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> side or cars with an advert for a business in the window - is it
>>>>>> technically
>>>>>> an offence to advertise your company this way on the public highway?
>>>> ...
>>>>> And by extension if it's illegal to sell _things_ "on the street"
>>>>> without a
>>>>> permit, does this make house for sale signs illegal for the same
>>>>> reasons?
>>>> ...
>>>> House sale signs are specifically permitted under Class 3A of Schedule 3
>>>> to The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations
>>>> 1992.
>>> That's the town and country planning legislation - it simply means you
>>> can't get done for a planning violation by displaying a For Sale board.
>>> It does not mean that you can't get done under whatever law outlaws
>>> selling goods on the public highway. But perhaps a house cannot be
>>> "goods".
>> The question asked was whether the signs were illegal, which they are not.
>> The sale of a house is not illegal under the legislation controlling the
>> sale of goods on the public highway because the house is not on the public
>> highway. It is on land adjacent to the public highway. Similarly, there
>> would have been no offence if the car sale advert had only been displayed
>> while it was on private land, although the advert would have had to be less
>> than 0.1 sq m in area to be exempt from the need to obtain planning
>> permission.
>>
> Many thanks for those who have conducted a sensible discussion on the
> subject, instead of the more usual diversionary personal abuse.
> 
> It does seem a mystery to me that motorists are allowed to street
> garage their cars 24/7 for free on public highways, thus creating a
> hazard and contributing to congestion, but it is good that they are
> taken to task for also trying to turn the practice into some sort of a
> business.
> 
> --
> World Carfree Network
> http://www.worldcarfree.net/
> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.

So why have you just twisted it?

-- 
Tony the Dragon

"nightjar .me.uk>" <cpb@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
news:VtadnatyD-UqRvTVnZ2dnUVZ8vOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Mortimer"  wrote in message 
> news:ZZmdnSXy9KtOhfTVnZ2dnUVZ8hmdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>> "nightjar .me.uk>" <cpb@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
>> news:ApydnToij4lHi_TVnZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Doug"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6ea6defc-ecc1-4b33-ae10-e8a317044c82@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>> ...
>>>> "A car owner who put a for-sale note on his Ford Escort soon found
>>>> another sign on the window - a £100 penalty ticket.
>>> ...
>>>
>>> It has long been an offence to sell cars from the road. The only change 
>>> I can see from 50 years ago, is that it has now become a fixed penalty 
>>> offence.
>>
>> Well I never knew that. So every time you see a car with a For Sale sign 
>> in the window, it's breaking the law if the car is on the "public 
>> highway"? What a stupid law!....
>> We are rapidly becoming a nation where just about anything that you do 
>> runs the risk of falling foul of one petty jumped-up law or another.
>
> Laws controlling street trading date back to medieval times. This is 
> merely a variant that addresses modern day practices


I see a very clear difference between setting up a stall on the side of the 
road where goods are sold, and putting an advert in a car window for a 
transaction that will take place elsewhere (the car owner's house). Shame 
that the law makes no distinction.

I wonder where the public are expected to learn about all these laws: how 
have I reached the age of 45 without having ever heard about this law? What 
other ones do I not know about that I could potentially fall foul of, I 
wonder?

"Doug"  wrote in message 
news:279f2d75-6de4-47ed-8dd9-43f94ddacb40@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
...
> Many thanks for those who have conducted a sensible discussion on the
> subject, instead of the more usual diversionary personal abuse.

Discussions between me and other members of this group usually manage to be 
sensible.

> It does seem a mystery to me that motorists are allowed to street
> garage their cars 24/7 for free on public highways,

The only place where there is specific permission for cars to be parked on 
the highway is in a marked parking bay. Generally those are either not free, 
or limited in time, or both.

> thus creating a hazard

There are several laws that prohibit a car being parked in a hazardous 
manner, from causing an obstruction, through driving without due care and 
consideration for other road users, up to dangerous driving, depending upon 
the form the hazard takes. However, the law probably has different criteria 
from you as to what constitutes a hazard in the application of those laws.

> and contributing to congestion,

I don't know any through routes where that is permitted, but on residential 
roads, restricting traffic flow is most likely to be a positive attribute of 
parking.

> but it is good that they are
> taken to task for also trying to turn the practice into some sort of a
> business.

Street trading has been subject to controls since long before there were 
cars.

Colin Bignell

On 1 Jul, 06:17, Doug  wrote:
> On 1 Jul, 02:17, "nightjar" <cpb@<insert my surname here>.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "JNugent"  wrote in message
>
> >news:SPidnSTf5pIq9fTVnZ2dnUVZ8uGdnZ2d@pipex.net...
>
> > > nightjar <cpb@ wrote:
> > >> "Peter Lynch" <p...@freyr.local> wrote in message
> > >>news:slrng6inr1.a5l.pete@freyr.local...
> > >>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:32:59 +0100, Mortimer wrote:
> > >> ...
> > >>>> What is the law about vans that have company name and contact details
> > >>>> on the
> > >>>> side or cars with an advert for a business in the window - is it
> > >>>> technically
> > >>>> an offence to advertise your company this way on the public highway?
> > >> ...
> > >>> And by extension if it's illegal to sell _things_ "on the street"
> > >>> without a
> > >>> permit, does this make house for sale signs illegal for the same
> > >>> reasons?
> > >> ...
>
> > >> House sale signs are specifically permitted under Class 3A of Schedule 3
> > >> to The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations
> > >> 1992.
>
> > > That's the town and country planning legislation - it simply means you
> > > can't get done for a planning violation by displaying a For Sale board.
>
> > > It does not mean that you can't get done under whatever law outlaws
> > > selling goods on the public highway. But perhaps a house cannot be
> > > "goods".
>
> > The question asked was whether the signs were illegal, which they are not.
> > The sale of a house is not illegal under the legislation controlling the
> > sale of goods on the public highway because the house is not on the public
> > highway. It is on land adjacent to the public highway. Similarly, there
> > would have been no offence if the car sale advert had only been displayed
> > while it was on private land, although the advert would have had to be less
> > than 0.1 sq m in area to be exempt from the need to obtain planning
> > permission.
>
> Many thanks for those who have conducted a sensible discussion on the
> subject, instead of the more usual diversionary personal abuse.
>
> It does seem a mystery to me that motorists are allowed to street
> garage their cars 24/7 for free on public highways, thus creating a
> hazard and contributing to congestion, but it is good that they are
> taken to task for also trying to turn the practice into some sort of a
> business.

It has always seemed a mystery to me why people are allowed to block
the street with their bicycle trailers, like the man shown in this
photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gollumofcatford/2620828418/

On Jul 1, 6:17 am, Doug  wrote:
> taken to task for also trying to turn the practice into some sort of a
> business.

you think that this guy was selling more than one car or planning to
do this on a regular basis?


Fod

"Mortimer"  wrote in message 
news:drWdnR55R8sZfPTVnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> "nightjar .me.uk>" <cpb@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
> news:VtadnatyD-UqRvTVnZ2dnUVZ8vOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
...
>> Laws controlling street trading date back to medieval times. This is 
>> merely a variant that addresses modern day practices
>
>
> I see a very clear difference between setting up a stall on the side of 
> the road where goods are sold, and putting an advert in a car window for a 
> transaction that will take place elsewhere (the car owner's house). Shame 
> that the law makes no distinction.

The main purpose of the legislation is to protect people from rogue traders 
who may sell a stolen or dangerous car, then disappear. If it were permitted 
to advertise a sale that would happen elsewhere, that would create a 
loophole they could drive the car through.

> I wonder where the public are expected to learn about all these laws: how 
> have I reached the age of 45 without having ever heard about this law? 
> What other ones do I not know about that I could potentially fall foul of, 
> I wonder?

Unfortunately, ignorance of the law is no excuse, so it is up to you to be 
aware of any law that may affect you - something that should be a lot easier 
these days, with the internet available. As it happens, I knew it was 
illegal to sell cars from the road when I was about 10, which was well 
before you were born. Neighbours of ours used to do it.

Colin Bignell

"nightjar .me.uk>" <cpb@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
news:E8ydnRR5tosk9_fVnZ2dnUVZ8sTinZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Mortimer"  wrote in message 
> news:drWdnR55R8sZfPTVnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>> "nightjar .me.uk>" <cpb@<insert my surname here> wrote in message 
>> news:VtadnatyD-UqRvTVnZ2dnUVZ8vOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> ...
>>> Laws controlling street trading date back to medieval times. This is 
>>> merely a variant that addresses modern day practices
>>
>>
>> I see a very clear difference between setting up a stall on the side of 
>> the road where goods are sold, and putting an advert in a car window for 
>> a transaction that will take place elsewhere (the car owner's house). 
>> Shame that the law makes no distinction.
>
> The main purpose of the legislation is to protect people from rogue 
> traders who may sell a stolen or dangerous car, then disappear. If it were 
> permitted to advertise a sale that would happen elsewhere, that would 
> create a loophole they could drive the car through.

How does the situation differ when the car is advertised in Exchange and 
Mart, the local paper or a newsagent's window rather than an advert in the 
car parked or driving on the road?

>> I wonder where the public are expected to learn about all these laws: how 
>> have I reached the age of 45 without having ever heard about this law? 
>> What other ones do I not know about that I could potentially fall foul 
>> of, I wonder?
>
> Unfortunately, ignorance of the law is no excuse, so it is up to you to be 
> aware of any law that may affect you - something that should be a lot 
> easier these days, with the internet available. As it happens, I knew it 
> was illegal to sell cars from the road when I was about 10, which was well 
> before you were born. Neighbours of ours used to do it.

The difficulty is that you need to have a suspicion that what you're about 
to do may be illegal in order to trigger you to check the legal status. It 
would never have entered my head that "car for sale" adverts in car windows 
might not be legal, so how would I know to check?

The man who was given the fixed penalty may have known of the law and 
decided to take a chance on not being caught, but it is far more likely that 
like other people who I've spoken to since I saw the story, he had never 
heard of this law.

On 2008-07-01, Doug  wrote:

> It does seem a mystery to me that motorists are allowed to street
> garage their cars 24/7 for free 

They aren't. Hint: It isn't free.

Unlike your use of the roads paid for by others.

-- 
          "Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
                 and presumptuous desire for a second one."
               [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

On 2 Jul, 09:56, Huge <H...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2008-07-01, Doug  wrote:
>
> > It does seem a mystery to me that motorists are allowed to street
> > garage their cars 24/7 for free
>
> They aren't. Hint: It isn't free.
>
> Unlike your use of the roads paid for by others.

Gollum obviously thinks the tax disc on cars is paid for by the
hypermobility fairies.  Just like the fairies pay all those lovely
giro cheques he collects each week.