In message , at 11:40:23 on 
Sat, 7 Jun 2008, keith  remarked:
>Therefore as far as I am concerned - until anyone can produce
>documentary evidence to the contrary  - if you do not have a ticket in
>a non-compulsory ticket area  ( because you have got off a train and
>left the ticket on the train or put it in a rubbish bin) and you are
>asked for your ticket and cannot show one you have not broken any
>by-law.
>
>I look forward to someone posting proof that I am incorrect.

As it will depend on the circumstances at the time, there's no general 
proof possible. All you can do is keep the ticket (for a reasonable time 
- I suggest until you've left the station) because it reduces the 
possibility that you'll be proven to be in the wrong.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 16:55:07 +0100, Roland Perry 
wrote:

>In message , at 16:20:25 on 
>Sun, 8 Jun 2008, keith  remarked:
>>>>I was in a non-compulsory ticket area - I was
>>>>not entering a train - there is absolutely nothing in the by-laws to
>>>>say that someone who has got off a train in a ncta must have a ticket.
>>>
>>>On the contrary, there's nothing to say your ticket cannot be examined.
>>
>>ffs - can you not read?
>
>Temper temper.
>
>>I did not say that "your ticket cannot be examined"
>>
>>I said that there is nothing in the bylaws to say that someone who has
>>got off a train in an ncta must have a ticket.
>
>Yes, if you have not encountered your first opportunity to buy a ticket 
>by that stage, then you would not need to have a ticket. But if you had 
>previously encountered that opportunity (at the first station, at an 
>intermediate station where you changed trains, or on any train) then you 
>must have a ticket.


Please tell me which part of the by-laws says this.

In message , at 17:00:47 on 
Sun, 8 Jun 2008, keith  remarked:
>>if you have not encountered your first opportunity to buy a ticket
>>by that stage, then you would not need to have a ticket. But if you had
>>previously encountered that opportunity (at the first station, at an
>>intermediate station where you changed trains, or on any train) then you
>>must have a ticket.
>
>Please tell me which part of the by-laws says this.

The part that's been quoted to you several times, that empowers ticket 
inspections.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:03:15 +0100, keith put finger to keyboard and
typed:
>
>I can assure you that what I have said is categorically correct - if
>you disagree then  please point out in the by-laws where it says
>anything different.

No. If you think you know the regulations so well, then you point out
the bit that supports your assertion and contradicts everyone else's
interpretation. 

Otherwise, I'll continue to accept the advice of those who seem to
know the situation better than you do.

Mark
-- 
Stuff, some of it good, at http://www.good-stuff.co.uk 
"Save me from the nothing I’ve become"

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 19:27:57 +0100, "Peter Masson"
 wrote:

>
>"keith"  wrote
>>
>> I can assure you that what I have said is categorically correct - if
>> you disagree then  please point out in the by-laws where it says
>> anything different.
>>
>It has been explained that the bylaws apply on railway premises, and that
>there is no exemption from the obligation to produce tickets for inspection
>in non-compulsory ticket areas (though of course non-travellers would not
>hold tickets so cannot be required to produce them).
>
>Take the example of a group of passengers alighting from a train, where
>tickets are to be inspected. Some joined at a station with a staffed ticket
>office, so hold tickets. Others joined at an unstaffed station. Some of them
>would not have had an opportunity to purchase a ticket (the train may be
>Driver Only Operated, or the conductor may not have been inspecting/selling
>tickets), though others may be travelling on the return part of a ticket, or
>hold a ticket they bought on line. The ticket inspectors can only identify
>the passengers who still need to buy a ticket by asking to inspect all
>tickets. Or are you saying that a passengoins at an unstaffed station, and
>was not asked to purchase a ticket on the train, is entitled to a free
>journey?
>
>Peter
>


I am not suggesting that anyone is entitled to have a free journey.  I
am saying that there can be no compulsion for people to produce a
ticket if they are in area where there is no compulsion to possess
one.  If someone has left their ticket on a train or thrown it away as
they get off the train in a non-compulsory ticket area, then there is
nothing in the regulations which says that they *must* have a ticket.

You can be in a non-compulsory ticket area without a ticket in which
case you do not have to produce one.

"keith"  wrote
>
> You can be in a non-compulsory ticket area without a ticket in which
> case you do not have to produce one.
>
If you have alighted from a train you must be in possession of a ticket for
the journey you have made (or purchase one if you have not had a previous
opportunity to do so). You can be required to produce this ticket for
inspection. The National Conditions of Carriage then apply:
"You must show and, if asked to do so by the staff of a Train Company or its
agent, hand over for inspection a valid ticket and any relevant Railcard,
photocard or other form of personal identification in accordance with
Condition 15. If you do not, you will be treated as having joined a train
without a ticket."
Ticket inspectors are quite capable of distinguishing between people who
have alighted from the train and those who were legitimately on the station
without a ticket, e.g. to see off passengers who joined the train, or to
meet passengers who are alighting from it.
This has been explained to you more than once. I have said elsewhere in this
thread that, IMHO, the Conditions of Carriage would be improved if they
defined the point at which a journey is deemed to be completed, so that a
ticket no longer needs to be retained, but your contention that this point
is when you step off the train at your destination station is illogical,
especially as there are stations equipped with ticket gates which are not
defined as a compulsory ticket area.

Peter

In message , at 19:55:45 on 
Sun, 8 Jun 2008, keith  remarked:
>I am not suggesting that anyone is entitled to have a free journey.  I
>am saying that there can be no compulsion for people to produce a
>ticket if they are in area where there is no compulsion to possess
>one.

Then you are wrong. The rules have been quoted to you over and over 
again. Please go and troll somewhere else as this is now beyond 
tiresome.
-- 
Roland Perry