I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.

Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95, 
I'd like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing 
calls through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find 
anything decent on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was 
hoping to get a handset that will connect directly through this without 
relying on a PC.
-- 
Walker Moore
  (-_-),,|,

Walker Moore wrote:
> I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.
> 
> Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95, 
> I'd like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing 
> calls through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find 
> anything decent on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was 
> hoping to get a handset that will connect directly through this without 
> relying on a PC.

i think your best bet is the siemens S460, which you can find for 60-80 
quid.

(our online sales link: http://store.gradwell.com/s.nl/it.A/id.455/.f)

all the sip/wifi phones are rubbish and expensive (IMO)

cheers
peter

-- 
peter gradwell. gradwell dot com Ltd. http://www.gradwell.com/
<email/web_hosting/business_voip> <t:01225 800 810>

"Walker Moore"  wrote in message
news:5ujra2F1iagdgU1@mid.individual.net...
> I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.
>
> Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95,
> I'd like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing
> calls through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find
> anything decent on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was
> hoping to get a handset that will connect directly through this without
> relying on a PC.
> -- 
> Walker Moore
>   (-_-),,|,

Firstly..
Embrase the DECT Revolution.. (Dect Phones are good)
Second, Buy an ATA.

DECT phones actually compress the data and do their own type of VoIP.. I
just wish one of the big manufactures would drop us a ethernet port on the
base units ;(

"Walker Moore"  wrote in message 
news:5ujra2F1iagdgU1@mid.individual.net...
> I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.
>
> Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95, I'd 
> like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing calls 
> through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find anything decent 
> on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was hoping to get a 
> handset that will connect directly through this without relying on a PC.

My advice is don't get a wifi phone.
Instead get them an ATA and connect it to an ordinary DECT cordless phone

I use a Linksys PAP2 with separate DECT bases on the two ports, so we have
two independent lines on the same voipcheap.com account.
-- 
Graham

%Profound_observation%

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 12:00:02 +0000, Walker Moore
 wrote:

>I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.
>
>Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95, 
>I'd like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing 
>calls through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find 
>anything decent on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was 
>hoping to get a handset that will connect directly through this without 
>relying on a PC.
Instead of a SIP/WiFi phone I'd choose an Analogue Telephone Adapter.
Assuming that they wish to keep their current telephone line I would
recommend a Linksys 3102. There are plenty of people on this group
that have these so, despite being a little difficult ot set up, you
should be able to get the right advice on how to proceed. Connect up
the 3102  accordingly and you'll have your SIP and landline calls
together on the same set of standard analogue handsets that currently
exist. It is easiest to do of course with a cordless phone set.
There's a link to broadbandstuff here
http://tinyurl.com/yql5th
There is some sales talk amongst the description but you shoud be able
to get the gist of what it will do. Also try googling for more info.
You'll need to get a converter lead as well to convert from the
connection on the ATA to a BT style socket.
http://tinyurl.com/ynvo5f
No recommendation intended from the links. Just to give you an idea of
the ATA and cost.

---
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
---

mr deo wrote:
> I just wish one of the big manufactures would drop us a ethernet port on the
> base units ;(
> 
> 

They already have :)

http://www.provoip.co.uk/c460ip.php

and

http://www.provoip.co.uk/s450ip.php

cheers,
Paul.

mr deo  wrote in <%Z3hj.34267$ou3.6659@newsfe4-win.ntli.net>:

> Embrase the DECT Revolution.. (Dect Phones are good)
> Second, Buy an ATA.

> DECT phones actually compress the data and do their own type of VoIP.. I
> just wish one of the big manufactures would drop us a ethernet port on the
> base units ;(

Siemens C450 IP.

I have only used it in testing (no hour-long phone conversations, just
short calls to an asterisk script) but it works. Initial voip setup via the
handset can be cumbersome but you can do all the setup via the internal
webserver (they seem to have fixed the javascript problems I saw when I
first tested it).

It indeed has a base with an ethernet port and an analogue line. You can
set up simple dialing rules.

                                                  Koos van den Hout

-- 
Koos van den Hout                         Homepage: http://idefix.net/~koos/
Fax: +31-30-2817051     PGP keyid DSS/1024 0xF0D7C263 or RSA/1024 0xCA845CB5
Webprojects:              Camp Wireless        http://www.camp-wireless.org/
                      The Virtual Bookcase   http://www.virtualbookcase.com/

mr deo wrote:
> "Walker Moore"  wrote in message
> news:5ujra2F1iagdgU1@mid.individual.net...
>> I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.
>>
>> Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95,
>> I'd like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing
>> calls through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find
>> anything decent on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was
>> hoping to get a handset that will connect directly through this without
>> relying on a PC.
>> -- 
>> Walker Moore
>>   (-_-),,|,
> 
> Firstly..
> Embrase the DECT Revolution.. (Dect Phones are good)
> Second, Buy an ATA.

They did (remember, this is for my parents).  They switched to DECT 
phones when they first came out in the late 1990s, and have gone through 
numerous base & handset upgrades since.  Presumably it's not possible to 
connect a Siemen's handset through their existing BT Diverse base 
station because it needs to plug into an ethernet port on the router?

If they bought a Siemen's base and handset, would their existing BT 
Diverse (DECT) handsets be able to connect to the Siemen's base?  They 
have five handsets (all very much required due to large house, and a 
detached workshop on the other side of the garden) and it could be 
expensive replacing them all.

Why are dedicated Wifi/VOIP handsets so crappy?  VOIP works just great 
on my Nokia N95...but that is technically a computer running SymbianOS I 
suppose.
-- 
Walker Moore
  (-_-),,|,

Walker Moore wrote:
> mr deo wrote:
>> "Walker Moore"  wrote in message
>> news:5ujra2F1iagdgU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.
>>>
>>> Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95,
>>> I'd like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing
>>> calls through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find
>>> anything decent on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was
>>> hoping to get a handset that will connect directly through this without
>>> relying on a PC.
>>> -- 
>>> Walker Moore
>>>   (-_-),,|,
>>
>> Firstly..
>> Embrase the DECT Revolution.. (Dect Phones are good)
>> Second, Buy an ATA.
> 
> They did (remember, this is for my parents).  They switched to DECT 
> phones when they first came out in the late 1990s, and have gone through 
> numerous base & handset upgrades since.  Presumably it's not possible to 
> connect a Siemen's handset through their existing BT Diverse base 
> station because it needs to plug into an ethernet port on the router?
> 
> If they bought a Siemen's base and handset, would their existing BT 
> Diverse (DECT) handsets be able to connect to the Siemen's base?  They 
> have five handsets (all very much required due to large house, and a 
> detached workshop on the other side of the garden) and it could be 
> expensive replacing them all.
> 
> Why are dedicated Wifi/VOIP handsets so crappy?  VOIP works just great 
> on my Nokia N95...but that is technically a computer running SymbianOS I 
> suppose.

Hmm, sorry for the reply to self.  I've managed to confuse your post and 
Grahams (about the Siemens handset).  They have a BT Diverse 5250 setup. 
   I'll have to check the instructions to see how it handles multiple 
lines.  (It's gotta be intuitive for my folks to use it successfully.) 
If it looks simple enough, I'll be the ATA.  Thanks for the advice 
everybody. =)

-- 
Walker Moore
  (-_-),,|,

Walker Moore wrote:

> 
> If they bought a Siemen's base and handset, would their existing BT 
> Diverse (DECT) handsets be able to connect to the Siemen's base?  They 
> have five handsets (all very much required due to large house, and a 
> detached workshop on the other side of the garden) and it could be 
> expensive replacing them all.
> 
> Why are dedicated Wifi/VOIP handsets so crappy?  VOIP works just great 
> on my Nokia N95...but that is technically a computer running SymbianOS I 
> suppose.

The Siemens base station is GAP compatible so if their current BT 
Diverse phones are also GAP compatible then yes they will work.

cheers,
Paul.

>>
>> Firstly..
>> Embrase the DECT Revolution.. (Dect Phones are good)
>> Second, Buy an ATA.
>
> They did (remember, this is for my parents).  They switched to DECT phones 
> when they first came out in the late 1990s, and have gone through numerous 
> base & handset upgrades since.  Presumably it's not possible to connect a 
> Siemen's handset through their existing BT Diverse base station because it 
> needs to plug into an ethernet port on the router?
>
> If they bought a Siemen's base and handset, would their existing BT 
> Diverse (DECT) handsets be able to connect to the Siemen's base?  They 
> have five handsets (all very much required due to large house, and a 
> detached workshop on the other side of the garden) and it could be 
> expensive replacing them all.
>
> Why are dedicated Wifi/VOIP handsets so crappy?  VOIP works just great on 
> my Nokia N95...but that is technically a computer running SymbianOS I 
> suppose.
> -- 
> Walker Moore
>  (-_-),,|,

So they already have a DECT base with 5 handsets registered to it?
Just leave that as it is, and put an ATA between the DECT base line-
cord and the router. The ATA *is* the phone to Ethernet converter
(as it were)

-- 
Graham

%Profound_observation%

Graham. wrote:
>>> Firstly..
>>> Embrase the DECT Revolution.. (Dect Phones are good)
>>> Second, Buy an ATA.
>> They did (remember, this is for my parents).  They switched to DECT phones 
>> when they first came out in the late 1990s, and have gone through numerous 
>> base & handset upgrades since.  Presumably it's not possible to connect a 
>> Siemen's handset through their existing BT Diverse base station because it 
>> needs to plug into an ethernet port on the router?
>>
>> If they bought a Siemen's base and handset, would their existing BT 
>> Diverse (DECT) handsets be able to connect to the Siemen's base?  They 
>> have five handsets (all very much required due to large house, and a 
>> detached workshop on the other side of the garden) and it could be 
>> expensive replacing them all.
>>
>> Why are dedicated Wifi/VOIP handsets so crappy?  VOIP works just great on 
>> my Nokia N95...but that is technically a computer running SymbianOS I 
>> suppose.
>> -- 
>> Walker Moore
>>  (-_-),,|,
> 
> So they already have a DECT base with 5 handsets registered to it?
> Just leave that as it is, and put an ATA between the DECT base line-
> cord and the router. The ATA *is* the phone to Ethernet converter
> (as it were)

Right.  Thanks for clarifying that.  I clearly got confused somewhere 
between those two posts I accidentally responded to as though they came 
from the same person.  =D

When you use an ATA, how do you switch between the regular line and 
VOIP?  Is it straightforward?
-- 
Walker Moore
  (-_-),,|,

Walker Moore schreef:
> mr deo wrote:
>> "Walker Moore"  wrote in message
>> news:5ujra2F1iagdgU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.
>>>
>>> Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95,
>>> I'd like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing
>>> calls through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find
>>> anything decent on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was
>>> hoping to get a handset that will connect directly through this without
>>> relying on a PC.
>>> -- 
>>> Walker Moore
>>>   (-_-),,|,
>>
>> Firstly..
>> Embrase the DECT Revolution.. (Dect Phones are good)
>> Second, Buy an ATA.
> 
> They did (remember, this is for my parents).  They switched to DECT 
> phones when they first came out in the late 1990s, and have gone through 
> numerous base & handset upgrades since.  Presumably it's not possible to 
> connect a Siemen's handset through their existing BT Diverse base 
> station because it needs to plug into an ethernet port on the router?
> 
> If they bought a Siemen's base and handset, would their existing BT 
> Diverse (DECT) handsets be able to connect to the Siemen's base?  They 
> have five handsets (all very much required due to large house, and a 
> detached workshop on the other side of the garden) and it could be 
> expensive replacing them all.
> 
> Why are dedicated Wifi/VOIP handsets so crappy?  VOIP works just great 
> on my Nokia N95...but that is technically a computer running SymbianOS I 
> suppose.

@ OP:
The advantage of a ATA, is, that you manage the dialrules from there, 
and you can make it so nobody will notice it, and you don't have to give 
"instructions"..

-- 

The Fug.

Walker Moore explained :

>
> When you use an ATA, how do you switch between the regular line and VOIP?  Is 
> it straightforward?

Yes.

I have mine (SPA3102) set up to automatically select the regular line 
for freephone calls and other 08 numbers.

It is also possible to possible to set it up such that a given prefix, 
say *, selects the appropriate line.

The cheaper ATAs have a switch on the top to dial using the regular 
line.

Walker Moore schreef:
> Graham. wrote:
>>>> Firstly..
>>>> Embrase the DECT Revolution.. (Dect Phones are good)
>>>> Second, Buy an ATA.
>>> They did (remember, this is for my parents).  They switched to DECT 
>>> phones when they first came out in the late 1990s, and have gone 
>>> through numerous base & handset upgrades since.  Presumably it's not 
>>> possible to connect a Siemen's handset through their existing BT 
>>> Diverse base station because it needs to plug into an ethernet port 
>>> on the router?
>>>
>>> If they bought a Siemen's base and handset, would their existing BT 
>>> Diverse (DECT) handsets be able to connect to the Siemen's base?  
>>> They have five handsets (all very much required due to large house, 
>>> and a detached workshop on the other side of the garden) and it could 
>>> be expensive replacing them all.
>>>
>>> Why are dedicated Wifi/VOIP handsets so crappy?  VOIP works just 
>>> great on my Nokia N95...but that is technically a computer running 
>>> SymbianOS I suppose.
>>> -- 
>>> Walker Moore
>>>  (-_-),,|,
>>
>> So they already have a DECT base with 5 handsets registered to it?
>> Just leave that as it is, and put an ATA between the DECT base line-
>> cord and the router. The ATA *is* the phone to Ethernet converter
>> (as it were)
> 
> Right.  Thanks for clarifying that.  I clearly got confused somewhere 
> between those two posts I accidentally responded to as though they came 
> from the same person.  =D
> 
> When you use an ATA, how do you switch between the regular line and 
> VOIP?  Is it straightforward?
You can set this in the dialplan, you let tru this dialplan, detect, 
which number is dialed, and according to this it will use which provider 
you have set for this, or which line... you can use also a service like 
www.mysipswitch.com then you only need to buy a simple (SPA3102) to 
manage all your VoIP providers, and you can also connect your landline 
to it.

-- 

The Fug.

In article ,
Walker Moore   wrote:
>I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.
>
>Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95, 
>I'd like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing 
>calls through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find 
>anything decent on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was 
>hoping to get a handset that will connect directly through this without 
>relying on a PC.

Like others have suggested, I'd stay away from Wi-Fi phones and go down
the DECT route ... However ... If you want a relatively cheap Wi-Fi
phone, then have a look at:

  http://www.provoip.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=36

I have one of these I bought a while back to play with.. It works ...
Most of the time ... It didn't pass the "Wife Test" though. It
occasionally loses registration for no good reason and needs rebooting.
Sometimes it takes a few times to register and work. Audio quality is
reasonable, but not stellar. (for a phone)

And you've then got the crappyness of Wi-Fi to put up with, which really
wasn't designed for the full-duplexy nature of VoIP calls. (Wi-Fi is
half duplex)

Good luck...

Gordon

Gordon Henderson wrote:
> In article ,
> Walker Moore   wrote:
>> I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.
>>
>> Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95, 
>> I'd like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing 
>> calls through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find 
>> anything decent on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was 
>> hoping to get a handset that will connect directly through this without 
>> relying on a PC.
> 
> Like others have suggested, I'd stay away from Wi-Fi phones and go down
> the DECT route ... However ... If you want a relatively cheap Wi-Fi
> phone, then have a look at:
> 
>   http://www.provoip.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=36
> 
> I have one of these I bought a while back to play with.. It works ...
> Most of the time ... It didn't pass the "Wife Test" though. It
> occasionally loses registration for no good reason and needs rebooting.
> Sometimes it takes a few times to register and work. Audio quality is
> reasonable, but not stellar. (for a phone)
> 
> And you've then got the crappyness of Wi-Fi to put up with, which really
> wasn't designed for the full-duplexy nature of VoIP calls. (Wi-Fi is
> half duplex)

They got the same router as me.  Netgear DG834N.  They're Draft-N 
wireless, which is about six times faster than traditional Wireless G, 
and 1.5 - 3 times faster than a wired ethernet connection.  They also 
utilise MIMO (simultaneous tx and rx) so effectively comparable to 
full-duplex. It's the first wireless ADSL2+ router I've personally had 
that's suitable for gaming because latency is as low as a wired 
connection (10ms-12ms through my ISP bethere.co.uk).

Maybe that's why I have such good results with my Nokia N95 with regards 
VOIP telephony.  Maybe it would be a different story if I had a Wireless 
G router.

Thanks again for the response.  Having read all the expert responses 
here, it looks like an ATA is going to be the better solution.  Time to 
find a good one....  ;)
-- 
Walker Moore
  (-_-),,|,

Walker Moore presented the following explanation :

>
> Thanks again for the response.  Having read all the expert responses here, it 
> looks like an ATA is going to be the better solution.  Time to find a good 
> one....  ;)

Depending on how sophisticated you want, look at AVM's Fritz!box or 
Linksys' SPA3102. Both of which can integrate the PSTN line. Many like 
the Grandstream.

The other suggestion you may have overlooked is the Siemens C460IP

"Walker Moore"  wrote in message 
news:5ukiouF1issn9U1@mid.individual.net...
> Gordon Henderson wrote:
>> In article ,
>> Walker Moore   wrote:
>>> I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.
>>>
>>> Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95, 
>>> I'd like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing 
>>> calls through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find 
>>> anything decent on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was 
>>> hoping to get a handset that will connect directly through this without 
>>> relying on a PC.
>>
>> Like others have suggested, I'd stay away from Wi-Fi phones and go down
>> the DECT route ... However ... If you want a relatively cheap Wi-Fi
>> phone, then have a look at:
>>
>>   http://www.provoip.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=36
>>
>> I have one of these I bought a while back to play with.. It works ...
>> Most of the time ... It didn't pass the "Wife Test" though. It
>> occasionally loses registration for no good reason and needs rebooting.
>> Sometimes it takes a few times to register and work. Audio quality is
>> reasonable, but not stellar. (for a phone)
>>
>> And you've then got the crappyness of Wi-Fi to put up with, which really
>> wasn't designed for the full-duplexy nature of VoIP calls. (Wi-Fi is
>> half duplex)
>
> They got the same router as me.  Netgear DG834N.  They're Draft-N 
> wireless, which is about six times faster than traditional Wireless G, and 
> 1.5 - 3 times faster than a wired ethernet connection.  They also utilise 
> MIMO (simultaneous tx and rx) so effectively comparable to full-duplex. 
> It's the first wireless ADSL2+ router I've personally had that's suitable 
> for gaming because latency is as low as a wired connection (10ms-12ms 
> through my ISP bethere.co.uk).
>
> Maybe that's why I have such good results with my Nokia N95 with regards 
> VOIP telephony.  Maybe it would be a different story if I had a Wireless G 
> router.
>
> Thanks again for the response.  Having read all the expert responses here, 
> it looks like an ATA is going to be the better solution.  Time to find a 
> good one....  ;)
> -- 
> Walker Moore
>  (-_-),,|,

I can also recommend the FritzBox.  I find it to be low maintenance once you 
have got the set up right.  I think it is a lot easier to set up than an SPA 
3102 as well.
I particularly like the fact that it tries tr re-register if registration 
fails for whatever reason.  With my Linksys ATA, I often had to re-boot when 
it lost registration.

Just my opinion though.

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:40:32 +0000, Walker Moore wrote:

> Gordon Henderson wrote:

>> And you've then got the crappyness of Wi-Fi to put up with, which
>> really wasn't designed for the full-duplexy nature of VoIP calls.
>> (Wi-Fi is half duplex)
> 
> They got the same router as me.  Netgear DG834N.  They're Draft-N
> wireless, which is about six times faster than traditional Wireless G,
> and 1.5 - 3 times faster than a wired ethernet connection.  They also
> utilise MIMO (simultaneous tx and rx) so effectively comparable to
> full-duplex. It's the first wireless ADSL2+ router I've personally had
> that's suitable for gaming because latency is as low as a wired
> connection (10ms-12ms through my ISP bethere.co.uk).
> 
> Maybe that's why I have such good results with my Nokia N95 with regards
> VOIP telephony.  Maybe it would be a different story if I had a Wireless
> G router.

Is the N95 pre-N? Or does the pre-N router make the Nokia perform better 
than G?

-- 
 <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
 20:09:46 up 4 days, 10:34,  2 users,  load average: 1.46, 1.52, 1.52
 2x Broadband/IT/Telecoms support positions in Newcastle city centre.
 For more info call 0191 229 8870 and ask for Steve. No agencies.

Jono wrote:
> Walker Moore presented the following explanation :
> 
>>
>> Thanks again for the response.  Having read all the expert responses 
>> here, it looks like an ATA is going to be the better solution.  Time 
>> to find a good one....  ;)
> 
> Depending on how sophisticated you want, look at AVM's Fritz!box or 
> Linksys' SPA3102. Both of which can integrate the PSTN line. Many like 
> the Grandstream.
> 
> The other suggestion you may have overlooked is the Siemens C460IP

Thanks.  I'll take a look at the SPA3102 and C460IP.

I'm not really looking to replace their router because it's likely to 
cause other problems.  For example: The Fritzbox only contains an ADSL 
modem which isn't compatible with their ADSL2+ (24Mbps) ISP.  It also 
seems to be a Wireless G Wifi device, which -- apart from reducing the 
wireless speed and range -- might have compatibility issues with their 
Draft N wireless adapters.
-- 
Walker Moore
  (-_-),,|,

"Walker Moore"  wrote in message
news:5ukpd0F1i29rdU1@mid.individual.net

[snip]

: : I'm not really looking to replace their router because
: : it's likely to cause other problems.  For example: The
: : Fritzbox only contains an ADSL modem which isn't
: : compatible with their ADSL2+ (24Mbps) ISP.  It also
: : seems to be a Wireless G Wifi device, which -- apart
: : from reducing the wireless speed and range -- might
: : have compatibility issues with their Draft N wireless
: : adapters

The latest Fritz!Boxes are ADSL2 compatible. Take a look at the 7140 and 
7170.


Ivor

All the suggestions miss one fact:
£50 Wifi / SIP phone would provide a second and more importantly independent 
line.
Of course that could be done more expensively with ATA and another DECT base 
(or plain wired) / phone(s).

I hope to report on cheap WiFi/SIP handset tomorrow (if City Link feels like 
it !)
Regards,
Martin

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 13:37:43 GMT, Brian A  wrote:
>  Assuming that they wish to keep their current telephone line I would
>  recommend a Linksys 3102. There are plenty of people on this group
>  that have these so, despite being a little difficult ot set up, you
>  should be able to get the right advice on how to proceed.

The interface is cludgy, they are very complicated for the general public,
and sound quality on pstn calls (e.g. incoming) is seriously (and 
negatively) affected - my advice is to steer clear.

You've had good advice about the Siemens dual mode handsets, I would
advise you to take that advice !


-- 
:: Regards, Andy Davidson             blog www.andyd.net
:: /* opinions and thoughts expressed here are my own */

Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Walker Moore"  wrote in message
> news:5ukpd0F1i29rdU1@mid.individual.net
> 
> [snip]
> 
> : : I'm not really looking to replace their router because
> : : it's likely to cause other problems.  For example: The
> : : Fritzbox only contains an ADSL modem which isn't
> : : compatible with their ADSL2+ (24Mbps) ISP.  It also
> : : seems to be a Wireless G Wifi device, which -- apart
> : : from reducing the wireless speed and range -- might
> : : have compatibility issues with their Draft N wireless
> : : adapters
> 
> The latest Fritz!Boxes are ADSL2 compatible. Take a look at the 7140 and 
> 7170.

Ooh, the 7170 is ADSL2+ compatible (ADSL2 is slower/no good for 
bethere.co.uk) with 802.11n wireless (drool).  I wouldn't mind one of 
those for myself.

Will the fritzbox allow you to set the kind of rules discussed earlier? 
  Ie. if a number begins 01 it will be automatically routed through a 
chosen sip provider, otherwise, the landline will be used.
-- 
Walker Moore
  (-_-),,|,

Walker Moore wrote:

> Ooh, the 7170 is ADSL2+ compatible (ADSL2 is slower/no good for 
> bethere.co.uk) with 802.11n wireless (drool).  I wouldn't mind one of 
> those for myself.

Correction:  Some companies are mis-selling the Fritzbox 7170.  It's 
802.11g++ wireless -- whatever that is.  It appears to be some kind of 
barely official compromise.  Slightly faster than 802.11g, but nowhere 
near as fast as 802.11n and no MIMO.

Also, although it's an ADSL2+ router, it's only Annex A or Annex B 
compliant (depending on the firmware you use).  So, if I ever wanted to 
upgrade to my ADSL2+ ISP's product with faster uploads (from 1.3Meg 
(Annex A) to 2.4Meg (Annex M)), I'd have to dump the Fritz!Box because 
it doesn't support Annex M.

Damn. It looked so good the way one company advertised it too.  I'm 
amazed that companies providing ADSL2+ routers are STILL failing to 
incorporate Annex M into their products.  Particularly Western European 
companies because in the UK and Netherlands certainly, ADSL2+/Annex M 
products have been available for a couple of years at least.
-- 
Walker Moore
  (-_-),,|,

> Correction:  Some companies are mis-selling the Fritzbox 7170.  It's
> 802.11g++ wireless -- whatever that is.  It appears to be some kind of
> barely official compromise.  Slightly faster than 802.11g, but nowhere
> near as fast as 802.11n and no MIMO.
>
> Also, although it's an ADSL2+ router, it's only Annex A or Annex B
> compliant (depending on the firmware you use).  So, if I ever wanted to
> upgrade to my ADSL2+ ISP's product with faster uploads (from 1.3Meg
> (Annex A) to 2.4Meg (Annex M)), I'd have to dump the Fritz!Box because
> it doesn't support Annex M.
>
> Damn. It looked so good the way one company advertised it too.  I'm
> amazed that companies providing ADSL2+ routers are STILL failing to
> incorporate Annex M into their products.  Particularly Western European
> companies because in the UK and Netherlands certainly, ADSL2+/Annex M
> products have been available for a couple of years at least.
> -- 
> Walker Moore
>   (-_-),,|,

You did look at the FrizBox that doesnt have DSL/WiFi?
http://www.avm.de/en/Produkte/FRITZBox/FRITZ_Box_Fon_ata/index.html
You should be able to Connect the WAN port on that to your existing Router..

TheFug wrote:
> The advantage of a ATA, is, that you manage the dialrules from there,
> and you can make it so nobody will notice it, and you don't have to give
> "instructions"..

You can do that on the Siemens SIP phones as well.

Then you only have 1 box with 1 point of failure.  If you use an ATA you
have 2 things to go wrong.

Tim

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:11:35 +0000, Walker Moore wrote:

> Also, although it's an ADSL2+ router, it's only Annex A or Annex B
> compliant (depending on the firmware you use).  So, if I ever wanted to
> upgrade to my ADSL2+ ISP's product with faster uploads (from 1.3Meg
> (Annex A) to 2.4Meg (Annex M)), I'd have to dump the Fritz!Box because
> it doesn't support Annex M.

Something else to watch out for on Be is that some ADSL2+ router chipsets 
won't sync very fast with Be's DSLAMs. It's worth asking around before 
spending money on something ADSL2+ to see what sort of sync speeds other 
people get compared with their BeBoxes.

-- 
 <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
 14:02:45 up 5 days,  4:27,  2 users,  load average: 1.76, 1.63, 1.56
 2x Broadband/IT/Telecoms support positions in Newcastle city centre.
 For more info call 0191 229 8870 and ask for Steve. No agencies.

Tim has brought this to us :
> TheFug wrote:
>> The advantage of a ATA, is, that you manage the dialrules from there,
>> and you can make it so nobody will notice it, and you don't have to give
>> "instructions"..
>
> You can do that on the Siemens SIP phones as well.
>
> Then you only have 1 box with 1 point of failure.  If you use an ATA you
> have 2 things to go wrong.

Or only half to replace ;-)

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:33:39 +0000, Walker Moore
 wrote:

>Jono wrote:
>> Walker Moore presented the following explanation :
>> 
>>>
>>> Thanks again for the response.  Having read all the expert responses 
>>> here, it looks like an ATA is going to be the better solution.  Time 
>>> to find a good one....  ;)
>> 
>> Depending on how sophisticated you want, look at AVM's Fritz!box or 
>> Linksys' SPA3102. Both of which can integrate the PSTN line. Many like 
>> the Grandstream.
>> 
>> The other suggestion you may have overlooked is the Siemens C460IP
>
>Thanks.  I'll take a look at the SPA3102 and C460IP.
>
>I'm not really looking to replace their router because it's likely to 
>cause other problems. 
The Linksys SPA-3102 is partly a router but you wouldn't be using that
part of it in this country. If you want to make the calling experience
similar to that which you experience on a landline then this is the
box for it. I have the SPA-3000 and I set up a 3102 for a friend and
he is happy with it. He gave everyone his voip number and stopped
using his landline for any incoming calls.
If you want a simpler system then you could go for one of the
Fritzboxes. However, whilst the Fritzbox is perhaps easier to set up
than the 3102, and does work quite well,  it is, in my view,
seriously lacking in configurability. Anyone who has used a 3102 would
not warm to the dialling experience of a Fritzbox for example. I won't
enlarge on that - perhaps someone who disagrees with me will do that
:-)

---
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
---

"Walker Moore"  wrote in message 
news:5uk3oeF1ierafU1@mid.individual.net...
> mr deo wrote:
>> "Walker Moore"  wrote in message
>> news:5ujra2F1iagdgU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> I'm looking for recommendations for a cheap WIFI/SIP handset.
>>>
>>> Having only realised the benefits of VOIP after getting my Nokia N95,
>>> I'd like to buy a handset for my parents that they can use for outgoing
>>> calls through voipcheap.com....but I'm really struggling to find
>>> anything decent on the web.  They have a ADSL2+/WIFI router, and I was
>>> hoping to get a handset that will connect directly through this without
>>> relying on a PC.
>>> -- 
>>> Walker Moore
>>>   (-_-),,|,
>>
>> Firstly..
>> Embrase the DECT Revolution.. (Dect Phones are good)
>> Second, Buy an ATA.
>
> They did (remember, this is for my parents).  They switched to DECT phones 
> when they first came out in the late 1990s, and have gone through numerous 
> base & handset upgrades since.  Presumably it's not possible to connect a 
> Siemen's handset through their existing BT Diverse base station because it 
> needs to plug into an ethernet port on the router?
>
> If they bought a Siemen's base and handset, would their existing BT 
> Diverse (DECT) handsets be able to connect to the Siemen's base?  They 
> have five handsets (all very much required due to large house, and a 
> detached workshop on the other side of the garden) and it could be 
> expensive replacing them all.
>
> Why are dedicated Wifi/VOIP handsets so crappy?  VOIP works just great on 
> my Nokia N95...but that is technically a computer running SymbianOS I 
> suppose.
> -- 
> Walker Moore
>  (-_-),,|,


Might I ask which VOIP service provider you have established a connection 
to?
(I am failing miserably with my E65 and Sipgate at the moment.!)


-- 
Michael Chare

How about Senao 7800H for £49 + postage ?
In size and looks it's like 3 years old Nokia mobile phone, similar 
operating mode with menus, ringtones, phonebook (100), call history etc.
Once connected to WiFi, all settings can be input / edited via browser.
If interested email me at martin at gsoft dot freeserve dot co dot uk
thanks, regards,
Martin

Jono wrote:

> Or only half to replace ;-)

Except the Siemens phones are the most reliable SIP phone product I've
ever come across.   The build quantity is simply amazing.



Tim

Tim formulated the question :
> Jono wrote:
>
>> Or only half to replace ;-)
>
> Except the Siemens phones are the most reliable SIP phone product I've
> ever come across.   The build quantity is simply amazing.
>

I am impresed with the Siemens too - can you get replacement belt clips 
yet?

Tim wrote:

> Then you only have 1 box with 1 point of failure.  If you use an ATA you
> have 2 things to go wrong.

AKA "All your eggs in one basket"

It is more expensive than the two box solution, less flexible than the 
two box solution, and will work less well than the two box solution, but 
it frees up one mains socket.

> TheFug wrote:
>> The advantage of a ATA, is, that you manage the dialrules from there,
>> and you can make it so nobody will notice it, and you don't have to give
>> "instructions"..
>
> You can do that on the Siemens SIP phones as well.
>
> Then you only have 1 box with 1 point of failure.  If you use an ATA you
> have 2 things to go wrong.
>
> Tim

With DECT if I walk out of range, than back into range, the handset
connects instantly *and my call is not dropped*
With wifi, well you tell me
-- 
Graham

%Profound_observation%

Graham. presented the following explanation :

>>
>> You can do that on the Siemens SIP phones as well.

>
> With DECT if I walk out of range, than back into range, the handset
> connects instantly *and my call is not dropped*
> With wifi, well you tell me

......but the Siemens is a DECT handset.....

"Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message 
news:mn.5d227d8164aadc97.77298@blueyonder.invalid...
> Graham. presented the following explanation :
>
>>>
>>> You can do that on the Siemens SIP phones as well.
>
>>
>> With DECT if I walk out of range, than back into range, the handset
>> connects instantly *and my call is not dropped*
>> With wifi, well you tell me
>
> ......but the Siemens is a DECT handset.....

Ah....

-- 
Graham

%Profound_observation%

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:54:55 +0000, Jono wrote:

> Graham. presented the following explanation :

>> With DECT if I walk out of range, than back into range, the handset
>> connects instantly *and my call is not dropped* With wifi, well you
>> tell me

> ......but the Siemens is a DECT handset.....

I think he was agreeing with you.

-- 
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 23:48:11 up 6 days, 14:12,  2 users,  load average: 1.13, 1.15, 1.09
 2x Broadband/IT/Telecoms support positions in Newcastle city centre.
 For more info call 0191 229 8870 and ask for Steve. No agencies.

Iain wrote:
> Tim wrote:
> 
>> Then you only have 1 box with 1 point of failure.  If you use an ATA you
>> have 2 things to go wrong.
> 
> AKA "All your eggs in one basket"
> 
> It is more expensive than the two box solution, less flexible than the 
> two box solution, and will work less well than the two box solution, but 
> it frees up one mains socket.

either solution is "all eggs in one basket", if either the phone or the 
ATA fails then you can't make calls.  As Tim said, at least with the 
all-in-one siemens solution there is only one piece of hardware to rely 
on, not two.

In what way would using the Siemens phone work "less well"?  Have you 
actually used one?  I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely interested to 
hear about what people think needs improving in the Siemens DECT system.

cheers,
Paul.

In article <478b59c7$0$515$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>,
Paul Hayes   wrote:
>Iain wrote:
>> Tim wrote:
>> 
>>> Then you only have 1 box with 1 point of failure.  If you use an ATA you
>>> have 2 things to go wrong.
>> 
>> AKA "All your eggs in one basket"
>> 
>> It is more expensive than the two box solution, less flexible than the 
>> two box solution, and will work less well than the two box solution, but 
>> it frees up one mains socket.
>
>either solution is "all eggs in one basket", if either the phone or the 
>ATA fails then you can't make calls.  As Tim said, at least with the 
>all-in-one siemens solution there is only one piece of hardware to rely 
>on, not two.
>
>In what way would using the Siemens phone work "less well"?  Have you 
>actually used one?  I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely interested to 
>hear about what people think needs improving in the Siemens DECT system.

They need the "R" key to work in VoIP mode. Trying to do a transfer on
a SIP call is a real PITA using asterisks default mechanism.

But that's just a niggle.

Gordon

Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>
>> In what way would using the Siemens phone work "less well"?  Have you 
>> actually used one?  I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely interested to 
>> hear about what people think needs improving in the Siemens DECT system.
> 
> They need the "R" key to work in VoIP mode. Trying to do a transfer on
> a SIP call is a real PITA using asterisks default mechanism.
> 
> But that's just a niggle.
> 
> Gordon

That will be sorted out in the next firmware release - although not sure 
when that'll be at the moment, probably longer than the next week or two.

cheers,
Paul.

Paul Hayes wrote:

> either solution is "all eggs in one basket", if either the phone or the 
> ATA fails then you can't make calls.  

Not necessarily. You can plug the phone into another socket, or use a 
different phone with the ATA.

And the individual parts are easier to source if one fails.

> As Tim said, at least with the 
> all-in-one siemens solution there is only one piece of hardware to rely 
> on, not two.

All your eggs in one basket.

> In what way would using the Siemens phone work "less well"?  Have you 
> actually used one?  

Only very briefly. It was OK, but nothing special. We have thick walls, 
so notice the difference between DECT phones.

> I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely interested to 
> hear about what people think needs improving in the Siemens DECT system.

The other factor is with base station placement. The best place for the 
router is one position, the best for the DECT base station is another, 
the best place for the handset's charging stand is yet another.

Iain used his keyboard to write :
> The other factor is with base station placement. The best place for the 
> router is one position, the best for the DECT base station is another, the 
> best place for the handset's charging stand is yet another.

And having a separate charger from the base station is how the Siemens 
is designed.

"Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.7c8f7d812f9f8266.77298@blueyonder.invalid...
> Iain used his keyboard to write :
> > The other factor is with base station placement. The best place for the
> > router is one position, the best for the DECT base station is another,
the
> > best place for the handset's charging stand is yet another.
>
> And having a separate charger from the base station is how the Siemens
> is designed.
>
>

I thought the base was one of the chargers? or the only charger if you only
got 1 phone.

In article <bypjj.1061$WJ.763@newsfe4-win.ntli.net>,
mr deo  wrote:
>
>"Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
>news:mn.7c8f7d812f9f8266.77298@blueyonder.invalid...
>> Iain used his keyboard to write :
>> > The other factor is with base station placement. The best place for the
>> > router is one position, the best for the DECT base station is another,
>the
>> > best place for the handset's charging stand is yet another.
>>
>> And having a separate charger from the base station is how the Siemens
>> is designed.
>>
>>
>
>I thought the base was one of the chargers? or the only charger if you only
>got 1 phone.

The "base" is a separate unit which does not have a handset charger
built-in.

So the "entry-level" system needs 2 mains sockets as it has 2 mains
adapters, one for the base, and one for the handset charger.  The handset
can be anywhere and the base wall mounted somewhere conveniently close
to an Ethernet and BT socket... (Yes, wall-mounted - give it a bit of
height, and put it in a sensible place and the range extends fantastically)

The handsets are all identical - there is no special "master" or "base"
handset.

The first sensible approach to DECT systems IMO.

Gordon

"mr deo"  schreef in bericht 
news:bypjj.1061$WJ.763@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
> news:mn.7c8f7d812f9f8266.77298@blueyonder.invalid...
>> Iain used his keyboard to write :
>> > The other factor is with base station placement. The best place for the
>> > router is one position, the best for the DECT base station is another,
> the
>> > best place for the handset's charging stand is yet another.
>>
>> And having a separate charger from the base station is how the Siemens
>> is designed.
>>
>>
>
> I thought the base was one of the chargers? or the only charger if you 
> only
> got 1 phone.

There are lots of  Siemens dect base stations without charger so please 
think again.

arja