I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of what
I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.

The worst of it is coming from the router and is obviously being
picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move towards
it) and when I switch that off it makes a big difference but there's
still some hum there.

I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard but that
doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into the test
socket.

I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?

Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?

Doughboy

> I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of what
> I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.
>
> The worst of it is coming from the router and is obviously being
> picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move towards
> it) and when I switch that off it makes a big difference but there's
> still some hum there.
>
> I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard but that
> doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into the test
> socket.
>
> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
>
> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?


It is probably the router PSU so you might try changing that.

Peter Crosland

> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
>
> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?

Ther are different sorts of mains hum. The low pitched 50Hz sine
wave that you get on low level, such as microphne leads, and audio
connections, or the higher pitched harmonic hums from mostly
switch mode PSU's, or things like faulty fluorescent fittings.

Is your phone mains connected with a plug in PSU?
Such as answer phones, DECT phones, etc?
A simple one lead table phone with BT plug is
the criterion, it won't produce noise, and dial
a single digit should give you a silent background,
does it? If not the noise may be coming from
outside your premises.
Low pitched induced 50Hz hum shouldn't affect ADSL as
the frequencies are above audio.
If, as I have met, you have a drop wire, and it is
resting on top of a high pressure street lighting
dischrage lamp, having slid to rest against the
ambient light sensor on top, then a situation like
this could cause ADSL problems. The street
lamp had just been replaced with a higher one
which was supporting the drop wire.

Doughboy wrote:

> I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of what
> I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.

On what line. On the master socjet ?


> The worst of it is coming from the router

How do you know. By what method did you establish that ? You already have
an ADSL router then ?

Or do you mean the router's power supply (usually plugs into a 13A
socket).

And when you say 'coming from' do you mean if you put the nadset close to
it ?

You are being terribly vague.


> and is obviously being
> picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move towards
> it)

It meaning .....?


> and when I switch that off it makes a big difference but there's
> still some hum there.
>
> I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard

Where did a switchboard suddenlt come into the equation. Why not mention
exactly what's connected to what first ?

> but that doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into
> the test
> socket.

You mean the phone hums when plugged into the test socket even with the
router turned off (and power supply turned off)?

Then you have a line fault.


> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
> noise.

No it isn't unless it's a mains powered phone in which case it is
possible.


> Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?

NO.


> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?

Not a clue since you're not really explaining yourself very well, but in
practice I'll bet it doesn't unless it's symptomatic of some other
fundamental fault.

Graham

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:43:16 GMT, "Ato_Zee" 
wrote:

>
>> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
>> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
>>
>> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
>> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?
>
>Ther are different sorts of mains hum. The low pitched 50Hz sine
>wave that you get on low level, such as microphne leads, and audio
>connections, or the higher pitched harmonic hums from mostly
>switch mode PSU's, or things like faulty fluorescent fittings.
>
>Is your phone mains connected with a plug in PSU?
>Such as answer phones, DECT phones, etc?
>A simple one lead table phone with BT plug is
>the criterion, it won't produce noise, and dial
>a single digit should give you a silent background,
>does it? If not the noise may be coming from
>outside your premises.
>Low pitched induced 50Hz hum shouldn't affect ADSL as
>the frequencies are above audio.
>If, as I have met, you have a drop wire, and it is
>resting on top of a high pressure street lighting
>dischrage lamp, having slid to rest against the
>ambient light sensor on top, then a situation like
>this could cause ADSL problems. The street
>lamp had just been replaced with a higher one
>which was supporting the drop wire.

Listening again, it does remind me of the sort of hum you get with
audio leads (when they're not properly grounded if I recall
correctly).

I've just got a wired phone with a single (curly) lead.

Good point about low pitched noise shouldn't affect ADSL. I've just
been reading about how the bandwidth is split between voice and ADSL.

I'll check outside to see whether I've got a drop wire or not.

Doughboy

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:44:21 +0100, Eeyore
 wrote:

>
>
>Doughboy wrote:
>
>> I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of what
>> I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.
>
>On what line. On the master socjet ?

Yes

>> The worst of it is coming from the router
>
>How do you know. By what method did you establish that ? You already have
>an ADSL router then ?

Er, obviously.

>Or do you mean the router's power supply (usually plugs into a 13A
>socket).

Well it's present when the PSU is powered and gets worse when the PSU
is connected to the router.

>And when you say 'coming from' do you mean if you put the nadset close to
>it ?
>
>You are being terribly vague.

I don't think I am. By coming from, I mean the noise is most
noticeable when the router and it's PSU are powered up, and moving the
handset closer to them  increases the noise.

>> and is obviously being
>> picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move towards
>> it)
>
>It meaning .....?

I'm not sure what your problem is, but above you asked me whether
'coming from' means if I put the handset close to the router, and then
you ask me to explain what I meant when I said the noise gets louder
when I move the handset towards the router.

>> and when I switch that off it makes a big difference but there's
>> still some hum there.
>>
>> I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard
>
>Where did a switchboard suddenlt come into the equation. Why not mention
>exactly what's connected to what first ?

I mean the switches that are control my flat's power circuits. I guess
I should have said switchbox but my post was about mains hum, so I
thought it was fairly obvious what I meant.

I clearly stated that the noise was still present when plugging my
phone into the test socket, so I fail to see how you got confused
about what was connected.

>> but that doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into
>> the test
>> socket.
>
>You mean the phone hums when plugged into the test socket even with the
>router turned off (and power supply turned off)?

That's what I said.

>Then you have a line fault.

OK.

>> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
>> noise.
>
>No it isn't unless it's a mains powered phone in which case it is
>possible.

No, it's not a mains powered phone.

>> Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
>
>NO.

OK.

>> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
>> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?
>
>Not a clue since you're not really explaining yourself very well, but in
>practice I'll bet it doesn't unless it's symptomatic of some other
>fundamental fault.
>
>Graham

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:18:40 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
 wrote:

>> I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of what
>> I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.
>>
>> The worst of it is coming from the router and is obviously being
>> picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move towards
>> it) and when I switch that off it makes a big difference but there's
>> still some hum there.
>>
>> I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard but that
>> doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into the test
>> socket.
>>
>> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
>> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
>>
>> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
>> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?
>
>
>It is probably the router PSU so you might try changing that.
>
>Peter Crosland 

Yes, the PSU does seem to be the main culprit, although the router is
radiating/amplifying the noise when the PSU is plugged into it.

Even so, the residual hum on the line when my entire flat is powered
down does seem to suggest a line fault. I only had the line installed
a month ago, but as the wiring was already in place from years ago,
all the engineer had to do in my flat was check the box and move it
slightly for me.

Doughboy

>>> I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of what
>>> I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.
>>>
>>> The worst of it is coming from the router and is obviously being
>>> picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move towards
>>> it) and when I switch that off it makes a big difference but there's
>>> still some hum there.
>>>
>>> I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard but that
>>> doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into the test
>>> socket.
>>>
>>> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
>>> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
>>>
>>> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
>>> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?
>>
>>
>>It is probably the router PSU so you might try changing that.
>>
>>Peter Crosland
>
> Yes, the PSU does seem to be the main culprit, although the router is
> radiating/amplifying the noise when the PSU is plugged into it.
>
> Even so, the residual hum on the line when my entire flat is powered
> down does seem to suggest a line fault. I only had the line installed
> a month ago, but as the wiring was already in place from years ago,
> all the engineer had to do in my flat was check the box and move it
> slightly for me.


It could well be. This would be a good place to improve your knowledge.

http://www.dslzoneuk.net/socket.php

Peter Crosland

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:05:14 +0100, Doughboy  wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:43:16 GMT, "Ato_Zee" 
>wrote:
>
>>
>>> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
>>> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
>>>
>>> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
>>> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?
>>
>>Ther are different sorts of mains hum. The low pitched 50Hz sine
>>wave that you get on low level, such as microphne leads, and audio
>>connections, or the higher pitched harmonic hums from mostly
>>switch mode PSU's, or things like faulty fluorescent fittings.
>>
>>Is your phone mains connected with a plug in PSU?
>>Such as answer phones, DECT phones, etc?
>>A simple one lead table phone with BT plug is
>>the criterion, it won't produce noise, and dial
>>a single digit should give you a silent background,
>>does it? If not the noise may be coming from
>>outside your premises.
>>Low pitched induced 50Hz hum shouldn't affect ADSL as
>>the frequencies are above audio.
>>If, as I have met, you have a drop wire, and it is
>>resting on top of a high pressure street lighting
>>dischrage lamp, having slid to rest against the
>>ambient light sensor on top, then a situation like
>>this could cause ADSL problems. The street
>>lamp had just been replaced with a higher one
>>which was supporting the drop wire.
>
>Listening again, it does remind me of the sort of hum you get with
>audio leads (when they're not properly grounded if I recall
>correctly).
>
>I've just got a wired phone with a single (curly) lead.
>
>Good point about low pitched noise shouldn't affect ADSL. I've just
>been reading about how the bandwidth is split between voice and ADSL.
>
>I'll check outside to see whether I've got a drop wire or not.
>
>Doughboy

Actually, I've just remembered that the lines come in from the garage
below my block of flats, as I was down there years ago with a BT
engineer and I recall the tatty looking junction boxes screwed onto
the beams.

I suppose there might still be a drop wire going to the garage though.

Doughboy

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:34:32 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
 wrote:

>>>> I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of what
>>>> I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.
>>>>
>>>> The worst of it is coming from the router and is obviously being
>>>> picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move towards
>>>> it) and when I switch that off it makes a big difference but there's
>>>> still some hum there.
>>>>
>>>> I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard but that
>>>> doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into the test
>>>> socket.
>>>>
>>>> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
>>>> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
>>>>
>>>> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
>>>> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?
>>>
>>>
>>>It is probably the router PSU so you might try changing that.
>>>
>>>Peter Crosland
>>
>> Yes, the PSU does seem to be the main culprit, although the router is
>> radiating/amplifying the noise when the PSU is plugged into it.
>>
>> Even so, the residual hum on the line when my entire flat is powered
>> down does seem to suggest a line fault. I only had the line installed
>> a month ago, but as the wiring was already in place from years ago,
>> all the engineer had to do in my flat was check the box and move it
>> slightly for me.
>
>
>It could well be. This would be a good place to improve your knowledge.
>
>http://www.dslzoneuk.net/socket.php
>
>Peter Crosland 

Thanks, but I haven't got any extensions.

Doughboy

>>>>> I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of what
>>>>> I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.
>>>>>
>>>>> The worst of it is coming from the router and is obviously being
>>>>> picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move towards
>>>>> it) and when I switch that off it makes a big difference but there's
>>>>> still some hum there.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard but that
>>>>> doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into the test
>>>>> socket.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
>>>>> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
>>>>>
>>>>> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
>>>>> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It is probably the router PSU so you might try changing that.
>>>>
>>>>Peter Crosland
>>>
>>> Yes, the PSU does seem to be the main culprit, although the router is
>>> radiating/amplifying the noise when the PSU is plugged into it.
>>>
>>> Even so, the residual hum on the line when my entire flat is powered
>>> down does seem to suggest a line fault. I only had the line installed
>>> a month ago, but as the wiring was already in place from years ago,
>>> all the engineer had to do in my flat was check the box and move it
>>> slightly for me.
>>
>>
>>It could well be. This would be a good place to improve your knowledge.
>>
>>http://www.dslzoneuk.net/socket.php
>>
>>Peter Crosland
>
> Thanks, but I haven't got any extensions.

It is still well worth looking at the rest of the site as there is much 
useful information on it.

Peter Crosland

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:31:54 +0100, Doughboy wrote:

>Even so, the residual hum on the line when my entire flat is powered
>down does seem to suggest a line fault. I only had the line installed
>a month ago, but as the wiring was already in place from years ago,
>all the engineer had to do in my flat was check the box and move it
>slightly for me.

Is your phone connected through a filter?

I had my modem on before ADSL was live and there was noise on the phone
line even with a filter in. Once the ADSL went live and the modem
synced it went silent. I'd wait and see what happens when you are on.

-- 
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail	ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:02:14 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
 wrote:

>>>>>> I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of what
>>>>>> I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The worst of it is coming from the router and is obviously being
>>>>>> picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move towards
>>>>>> it) and when I switch that off it makes a big difference but there's
>>>>>> still some hum there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard but that
>>>>>> doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into the test
>>>>>> socket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
>>>>>> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
>>>>>> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It is probably the router PSU so you might try changing that.
>>>>>
>>>>>Peter Crosland
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the PSU does seem to be the main culprit, although the router is
>>>> radiating/amplifying the noise when the PSU is plugged into it.
>>>>
>>>> Even so, the residual hum on the line when my entire flat is powered
>>>> down does seem to suggest a line fault. I only had the line installed
>>>> a month ago, but as the wiring was already in place from years ago,
>>>> all the engineer had to do in my flat was check the box and move it
>>>> slightly for me.
>>>
>>>
>>>It could well be. This would be a good place to improve your knowledge.
>>>
>>>http://www.dslzoneuk.net/socket.php
>>>
>>>Peter Crosland
>>
>> Thanks, but I haven't got any extensions.
>
>It is still well worth looking at the rest of the site as there is much 
>useful information on it.
>
>Peter Crosland 

Sorry, I thought you were just pointing me to that specific part of
the site. It certainly does look like a useful resource, so thanks
again.

Doughboy

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:07:04 +0100 (BST), "Rodney Pont"
 wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:31:54 +0100, Doughboy wrote:
>
>>Even so, the residual hum on the line when my entire flat is powered
>>down does seem to suggest a line fault. I only had the line installed
>>a month ago, but as the wiring was already in place from years ago,
>>all the engineer had to do in my flat was check the box and move it
>>slightly for me.
>
>Is your phone connected through a filter?
>
>I had my modem on before ADSL was live and there was noise on the phone
>line even with a filter in. Once the ADSL went live and the modem
>synced it went silent. I'd wait and see what happens when you are on.

Yep, I'm using a filter. There is actually some additional
high-pitched noise present if I plug the router into the filter, which
roughly follows a pattern of 3 secs on 3 secs off but I assumed I was
only hearing that because my ADSL hasn't been activated yet, so wasn't
too worried about that.

As you say, I'll just have to wait and see what happens. If I get the
sort of performance that I'm expecting, I might be able to ignore the
hum on the phone.

Doughboy

Doughboy wrote:

> Eeyore wrote:
>
> >You mean the phone hums when plugged into the test socket even with the
> >router turned off (and power supply turned off)?
>
> That's what I said.
>
> >Then you have a line fault.
>
> OK.
>
> >> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
> >> noise.
> >
> >No it isn't unless it's a mains powered phone in which case it is
> >possible.
>
> No, it's not a mains powered phone.

Problem solved them. It's a line problem. Furthermore it's audible as a voice
band problem, not related to ADSL per se but as another poster mentioned could
affect it depending on cause, so ensure it's reproducible then call out BT to
fix it PDQ. Their responsibility btw ends at the master socket. Ensure there's
no 'wild' wiring somehow attached by the way or they'll charge you ~ £100. I
assume btw you have an NTE5 master socket and know what that is and how to
properly use the test socket.

Sorry to have to ask so many questions but that honed it down.

You may want to show the engineer they send out some of this correspondence.
They do like a clear explanation of faults.

Graham

Doughboy wrote:

>  "Peter Crosland" wrote:
>
> >> I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of what
> >> I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.
> >>
> >> The worst of it is coming from the router and is obviously being
> >> picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move towards
> >> it) and when I switch that off it makes a big difference but there's
> >> still some hum there.
> >>
> >> I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard but that
> >> doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into the test
> >> socket.
> >>
> >> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
> >> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
> >>
> >> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
> >> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?
> >
> >
> >It is probably the router PSU so you might try changing that.
>
>
> Yes, the PSU does seem to be the main culprit, although the router is
> radiating/amplifying the noise when the PSU is plugged into it.
>
> Even so, the residual hum on the line when my entire flat is powered
> down does seem to suggest a line fault. I only had the line installed
> a month ago, but as the wiring was already in place from years ago,
> all the engineer had to do in my flat was check the box and move it
> slightly for me.

I'm umming and ahhing about earth loops.

Not sure how one could be formed from the exchange but funny things do
happen sometimes.

The issue with picking up noise from the router is incidental to a deeper
fault.

Graham

Doughboy wrote:

> Listening again, it does remind me of the sort of hum you get with
> audio leads (when they're not properly grounded if I recall
> correctly).

Earth loop !

How you got one is anyone's guess but it sounds like it. Do make very very
sure you can reproduce the hum on a non-mains powered phone from the test
socket before calling in BT lest you waste money with their usurous fees.

Graham

Doughboy wrote:

> Doughboy  wrote:
> >"Ato_Zee" >wrote:
> >
> >>> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
> >>> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
> >>>
> >>> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
> >>> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?
> >>
> >>Ther are different sorts of mains hum. The low pitched 50Hz sine
> >>wave that you get on low level, such as microphne leads, and audio
> >>connections, or the higher pitched harmonic hums from mostly
> >>switch mode PSU's, or things like faulty fluorescent fittings.
> >>
> >>Is your phone mains connected with a plug in PSU?
> >>Such as answer phones, DECT phones, etc?
> >>A simple one lead table phone with BT plug is
> >>the criterion, it won't produce noise, and dial
> >>a single digit should give you a silent background,
> >>does it? If not the noise may be coming from
> >>outside your premises.
> >>Low pitched induced 50Hz hum shouldn't affect ADSL as
> >>the frequencies are above audio.
> >>If, as I have met, you have a drop wire, and it is
> >>resting on top of a high pressure street lighting
> >>dischrage lamp, having slid to rest against the
> >>ambient light sensor on top, then a situation like
> >>this could cause ADSL problems. The street
> >>lamp had just been replaced with a higher one
> >>which was supporting the drop wire.
> >
> >Listening again, it does remind me of the sort of hum you get with
> >audio leads (when they're not properly grounded if I recall
> >correctly).
> >
> >I've just got a wired phone with a single (curly) lead.
> >
> >Good point about low pitched noise shouldn't affect ADSL. I've just
> >been reading about how the bandwidth is split between voice and ADSL.
> >
> >I'll check outside to see whether I've got a drop wire or not.
> >
> >Doughboy
>
> Actually, I've just remembered that the lines come in from the garage
> below my block of flats, as I was down there years ago with a BT
> engineer and I recall the tatty looking junction boxes screwed onto
> the beams.
>
> I suppose there might still be a drop wire going to the garage though.

The way BT are charging for sending out Openreach engineers suggests you
ought to tale a good look at that lest they hold you liable. It's moving
goalposts time with BT.

Graham

Rodney Pont wrote:

> Doughboy wrote:
>
> >Even so, the residual hum on the line when my entire flat is powered
> >down does seem to suggest a line fault. I only had the line installed
> >a month ago, but as the wiring was already in place from years ago,
> >all the engineer had to do in my flat was check the box and move it
> >slightly for me.
>
> Is your phone connected through a filter?
>
> I had my modem on before ADSL was live and there was noise on the phone
> line even with a filter in.

That shouldn't really happen. Who's your ISP ?

Much of this curious stuff is due to old BT extension wiring from the old
days before ADSL.

Graham

Doughboy wrote:

> If I get the sort of performance that I'm expecting, I might be able to
> ignore the
> hum on the phone.

You shouldn't have to. My lines are clear as a bell. At least in telecom
terms.        ;~)

Graham

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:53:13 +0100, Eeyore
 wrote:

>
>
>Doughboy wrote:
>
>> Eeyore wrote:
>>
>> >You mean the phone hums when plugged into the test socket even with the
>> >router turned off (and power supply turned off)?
>>
>> That's what I said.
>>
>> >Then you have a line fault.
>>
>> OK.
>>
>> >> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
>> >> noise.
>> >
>> >No it isn't unless it's a mains powered phone in which case it is
>> >possible.
>>
>> No, it's not a mains powered phone.
>
>Problem solved them. It's a line problem. Furthermore it's audible as a voice
>band problem, not related to ADSL per se but as another poster mentioned could
>affect it depending on cause, so ensure it's reproducible then call out BT to
>fix it PDQ. Their responsibility btw ends at the master socket. Ensure there's
>no 'wild' wiring somehow attached by the way or they'll charge you ~ £100. I
>assume btw you have an NTE5 master socket and know what that is and how to
>properly use the test socket.
>
>Sorry to have to ask so many questions but that honed it down.
>
>You may want to show the engineer they send out some of this correspondence.
>They do like a clear explanation of faults.
>
>Graham

It's a shame the engineer didn't pick up on it when he installed the
line as, unless it is a drop wire problem, I would have thought it
unlikely to have developed in the month since. Admittedly,  I only
noticed it after hearing the rather loud hum with the router on and
then observing that there was still some noise with everything off but
I don't know what a normal  line should sound like.

There's no extensions and I certainly haven't messed with the BT side
of the socket (yep, NTE5)  since installation, so I should be OK
there.

I'm thinking I might as well wait until Tuesday when my ADSL goes
live, as if that's affected the supplier (Be) might be able to get BT
to fix the problem  without me having to deal with them.

Doughboy

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:03:10 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

>Rodney Pont wrote:
>
>> I had my modem on before ADSL was live and there was noise on the phone
>> line even with a filter in.
>
>That shouldn't really happen. Who's your ISP ?

It was just the modem trying to connect to the DSLAM that wasn't
enabled/connected at the time. It stopped as soon as the modem was
allowed to sync.

>Much of this curious stuff is due to old BT extension wiring from the old
>days before ADSL.

I have no extensions.

-- 
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail	ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

> > If I get the sort of performance that I'm expecting, I might be able to
> > ignore the hum on the phone.

One possibility that hasn't been mentioned is that with a building junction
box, which could date to Post Office days, there is a split pair
problem, as there are several flats being served from the one junction
box.
In which case all bets are off, there could well be a hum pick
up loop, and a split pair earth  loop could make ADSL go
pear shaped.
I don't usually associate split pairs with BT wiring, only
with cowboy electricians roped in for telephone wiring
in hotels, office blocks, and the like. Half the outlets
will have the pairs reversed, which is where a pocket
tester for dial tone and polarity comes in handy.

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:12:27 +0100, Doughboy  wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:53:13 +0100, Eeyore
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Doughboy wrote:
>>
>>> Eeyore wrote:
>>>
>>> >You mean the phone hums when plugged into the test socket even with the
>>> >router turned off (and power supply turned off)?
>>>
>>> That's what I said.
>>>
>>> >Then you have a line fault.
>>>
>>> OK.
>>>
>>> >> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
>>> >> noise.
>>> >
>>> >No it isn't unless it's a mains powered phone in which case it is
>>> >possible.
>>>
>>> No, it's not a mains powered phone.
>>
>>Problem solved them. It's a line problem. Furthermore it's audible as a voice
>>band problem, not related to ADSL per se but as another poster mentioned could
>>affect it depending on cause, so ensure it's reproducible then call out BT to
>>fix it PDQ. Their responsibility btw ends at the master socket. Ensure there's
>>no 'wild' wiring somehow attached by the way or they'll charge you ~ £100. I
>>assume btw you have an NTE5 master socket and know what that is and how to
>>properly use the test socket.
>>
>>Sorry to have to ask so many questions but that honed it down.
>>
>>You may want to show the engineer they send out some of this correspondence.
>>They do like a clear explanation of faults.
>>
>>Graham
>
>It's a shame the engineer didn't pick up on it when he installed the
>line as, unless it is a drop wire problem, I would have thought it
>unlikely to have developed in the month since. Admittedly,  I only
>noticed it after hearing the rather loud hum with the router on and
>then observing that there was still some noise with everything off but
>I don't know what a normal  line should sound like.
>
>There's no extensions and I certainly haven't messed with the BT side
>of the socket (yep, NTE5)  since installation, so I should be OK
>there.
>
>I'm thinking I might as well wait until Tuesday when my ADSL goes
>live, as if that's affected the supplier (Be) might be able to get BT
>to fix the problem  without me having to deal with them.
>
>Doughboy

Well it's actually come on line a bit early and whilst the hum is
still there,  it doesn't appear to be affecting the ADSL side of
things, so I'll have to report it as a line fault myself.

Modem stats:

Uptime: 0 days, 0:17:49 
 
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A 
 
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,338 / 22,873 
 
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00 
 
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 18.0 
 
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.0 / 11.5 
 
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 7.0 / 7.0 
 
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM 
 
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 11 / 0 
 
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 2 / 0 
 
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0 
 
Loss of Link (Remote): 0 
 
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 2 / 0 
 
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 96 
 
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0 
 
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 21 / 0 

Doughboy

Doughboy wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:18:40 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
>  wrote:
>
>>> I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of
>>> what I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.
>>>
>>> The worst of it is coming from the router and is obviously being
>>> picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move
>>> towards it) and when I switch that off it makes a big difference
>>> but there's still some hum there.
>>>
>>> I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard but that
>>> doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into the
>>> test socket.
>>>
>>> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating
>>> the noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?
>>>
>>> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone
>>> affect my broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?
>>
>>
>> It is probably the router PSU so you might try changing that.
>>
>> Peter Crosland
>
> Yes, the PSU does seem to be the main culprit, although the router
> is radiating/amplifying the noise when the PSU is plugged into it.
>
> Even so, the residual hum on the line when my entire flat is powered
> down does seem to suggest a line fault. I only had the line
> installed a month ago, but as the wiring was already in place from
> years ago, all the engineer had to do in my flat was check the box
> and move it slightly for me.
>
> Doughboy

Suggest you get that changed ASAP, before all your neighbours turn into a 
lynch mob looking for the person who has stopped their broadband from 
working (yes it did turn that ugly at one stage in one small village in East 
Nottinghamshire), yes it can & does happen (not a Belkin or 3Com by any 
chance).

Oh yes it could stop your service from working as well, a lot would depend 
on how strong your broadband signal is.

Doughboy brought next idea :
> I'm getting Broadband connected on the 30th but there's a bit of what
> I'm guessing is electrical hum on the line.
>
> The worst of it is coming from the router and is obviously being
> picked up by the phone handset (it get's louder when I move towards
> it) and when I switch that off it makes a big difference but there's
> still some hum there.
>
> I've tried switching off every circuit on my switchboard but that
> doesn't make any difference, nor did plugging the phone into the test
> socket.
>
> I guess it's possible it's the phone itself which is generating the
> noise. Is it normal to hear a small amount of hum?

No, not normally.

>
> Will the noise from the router being picked up by the phone affect my
> broadband, or will the ADSL filter stop that?

For months I had a slight hum on our line, which basically I wasn't 
troubled enough by to trace. I eventually found it was due to the 
splitter ADSL filter picking up hum from a nearby wallwart which 
supplied a dect phone base. The wallwart and filter were both plugged 
into one of those multi-outlet extensions with built in surge 
protection for both mains and phone line.

-- 
Regards,
        Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

> For months I had a slight hum on our line, which basically I wasn't
> troubled enough by to trace. I eventually found it was due to the
> splitter ADSL filter picking up hum from a nearby wallwart which
> supplied a dect phone base.

It is also advisable to have the wallwart (or supplied PSU)
as far as poracticable away from the modem/router.
The modem/router has a PCB with (very) low level
signal handling transformers and additionally the
PCB's tracks have the potential to pick up induced
magnetic fields. Most router PSU's
have a DC lead of sufficient length to put the
wallwart out of harms way.
I have also found that low energy lamps have two
power transistors in which appears to be a
switch mode PSU high frequency oscillator.
My house riser between floors had a phone
line extension of the old BT non-twisted pair
grey quad running alongside the house ringmain.
Putting the router next to the NTE5 and pulling
in CAT5 greatly improved sync speed and SNR.

Ato_Zee wrote:
>> For months I had a slight hum on our line, which basically I wasn't
>> troubled enough by to trace. I eventually found it was due to the
>> splitter ADSL filter picking up hum from a nearby wallwart which
>> supplied a dect phone base.
> 
> It is also advisable to have the wallwart (or supplied PSU)
> as far as poracticable away from the modem/router.
> The modem/router has a PCB with (very) low level
> signal handling transformers and additionally the
> PCB's tracks have the potential to pick up induced
> magnetic fields. Most router PSU's
> have a DC lead of sufficient length to put the
> wallwart out of harms way.
> I have also found that low energy lamps have two
> power transistors in which appears to be a
> switch mode PSU high frequency oscillator.
> My house riser between floors had a phone
> line extension of the old BT non-twisted pair
> grey quad running alongside the house ringmain.
> Putting the router next to the NTE5 and pulling
> in CAT5 greatly improved sync speed and SNR.

This is pretty much rubbish: the splitter feeds only frequencies above 
100khz to the ADSL stuff, and its almost completely impervious to 
50/100hz and the router wont put hum on the phones.

However the ferrite cores of the filter will be susceptible to magnetic 
fields, and thats whats probably happening.

Putting the router near switching PSUs is however a different matter. 
I'll give you that one! ;-) But it wont make the phones hum.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Ato_Zee wrote:
>>> For months I had a slight hum on our line, which basically I
>>> wasn't troubled enough by to trace. I eventually found it was due
>>> to the splitter ADSL filter picking up hum from a nearby wallwart
>>> which supplied a dect phone base.
>>
>> It is also advisable to have the wallwart (or supplied PSU)
>> as far as poracticable away from the modem/router.
>> The modem/router has a PCB with (very) low level
>> signal handling transformers and additionally the
>> PCB's tracks have the potential to pick up induced
>> magnetic fields. Most router PSU's
>> have a DC lead of sufficient length to put the
>> wallwart out of harms way.
>> I have also found that low energy lamps have two
>> power transistors in which appears to be a
>> switch mode PSU high frequency oscillator.
>> My house riser between floors had a phone
>> line extension of the old BT non-twisted pair
>> grey quad running alongside the house ringmain.
>> Putting the router next to the NTE5 and pulling
>> in CAT5 greatly improved sync speed and SNR.
>
> This is pretty much rubbish: the splitter feeds only frequencies
> above 100khz to the ADSL stuff, and its almost completely
> impervious to 50/100hz and the router wont put hum on the phones.

If the routers PSU is faulty it could
>
> However the ferrite cores of the filter will be susceptible to
> magnetic fields, and thats whats probably happening.
>
> Putting the router near switching PSUs is however a different
> matter. I'll give you that one! ;-) But it wont make the phones hum.

Re the above,,

Yes you are correct in the theory, but outside in the normal course of 
things there will be numerous occasions when you could be proved wrong....