does anybody have a number for BT Broadband that can short cut the
call to the sub continent.

4 weeks without BB now... and just had second $40.00 call of the day
trying to find out what is happening.

Same old script -- 15+ min call -- same procedures

ianh wrote:
> does anybody have a number for BT Broadband that can short cut the
> call to the sub continent.
>
> 4 weeks without BB now... and just had second $40.00 call of the day
> trying to find out what is happening.
>
> Same old script -- 15+ min call -- same procedures

Lol you've put up with no BB for 4 weeks....and you're STILL a customer of 
thiers??? If that were me I would have been gone on the 7th day. No 
questions, no ifs nor buts.

Get rid of them and goto another service that is willing to sort your 
problem out.

"ianh"  wrote in message 
news:7eaa62f7-2f9e-4fa1-86fa-25cd908efc23@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> does anybody have a number for BT Broadband that can short cut the
> call to the sub continent.
>
> 4 weeks without BB now... and just had second $40.00 call of the day
> trying to find out what is happening.
>
> Same old script -- 15+ min call -- same procedures

This is a good site to get alternative numbers, but I not know if a 01 or 02 
number will not or will transfer to India.

http://www.saynoto0870.com/

Note it for futur, I use it to get 0800 numbers rather than use 0845 etc.

Yes it is pain talking to India I just can't tell what they are saying never 
mind the lack of correct information.

-- 
Regards,
David

"ianh"  wrote in message 
news:7eaa62f7-2f9e-4fa1-86fa-25cd908efc23@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> does anybody have a number for BT Broadband that can short cut the
> call to the sub continent.
>
> 4 weeks without BB now... and just had second $40.00 call of the day
> trying to find out what is happening.
>
> Same old script -- 15+ min call -- same procedures

Why is it costing you anything?

Is you telephone line working ok? If yes dial 0800 111 4567

"ianh"  wrote in message 
news:7eaa62f7-2f9e-4fa1-86fa-25cd908efc23@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> does anybody have a number for BT Broadband that can short cut the
> call to the sub continent.
>
> 4 weeks without BB now... and just had second $40.00 call of the day
> trying to find out what is happening.
>
> Same old script -- 15+ min call -- same procedures

BT Wholesale BB Customer Assurance has gone over to India now a well
Can hardly hear them most of the time.  Not had a problem with language yet 
though, but I do go slowly and speak clearly
I can only sympathise and urge you to consider migrating - I certainly did 
that and voted with my feet

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:36:00 +0100, "SJP" <someone@somewhere.invalid>
wrote:

>
>"ianh"  wrote in message 
>news:7eaa62f7-2f9e-4fa1-86fa-25cd908efc23@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> does anybody have a number for BT Broadband that can short cut the
>> call to the sub continent.
>>
>> 4 weeks without BB now... and just had second $40.00 call of the day
>> trying to find out what is happening.
>>
>> Same old script -- 15+ min call -- same procedures
>
>Why is it costing you anything?
>

And why is it in $$$$$'s

n 14 Jul, 21:21, anyhtinguwant@anywhereuwanttogoto wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:36:00 +0100, "SJP" <some...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >"ianh"  wrote in message
> >news:7eaa62f7-2f9e-4fa1-86fa-25cd908efc23@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> >> does anybody have a number for BT Broadband that can short cut the
> >> call to the sub continent.
>
> >> 4 weeks without BB now... and just had second $40.00 call of the day
> >> trying to find out what is happening.
>
> >> Same old script -- 15+ min call -- same procedures
>
> >Why is it costing you anything?
>
> And why is it in $$$$$'s

Sadly i work away from home a lot and my wife runs our buisness using
the BB from the farm.

So currently i am in Miami and pulling emails on my lap top and then
skypeout back to farm....but earlier made mistake of using my US cell
to call BT 20 mins of wasted time and $30 of calling time --- followed
up by 43 mins of skype to the same number ---- and still nothing.

how do i find out other ISPs that are available on our exchange ---
very rural 01874 636xxx Sennybridge in rural wales...

"ianh"  wrote in message 
news:dd725d9e-6d74-4008-9dec-b2f1593b869e@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> n 14 Jul, 21:21, anyhtinguwant@anywhereuwanttogoto wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:36:00 +0100, "SJP" <some...@somewhere.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >"ianh"  wrote in message
>> >news:7eaa62f7-2f9e-4fa1-86fa-25cd908efc23@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> >> does anybody have a number for BT Broadband that can short cut the
>> >> call to the sub continent.
>>
>> >> 4 weeks without BB now... and just had second $40.00 call of the day
>> >> trying to find out what is happening.
>>
>> >> Same old script -- 15+ min call -- same procedures
>>
>> >Why is it costing you anything?
>>
>> And why is it in $$$$$'s
>
> Sadly i work away from home a lot and my wife runs our buisness using
> the BB from the farm.
>
> So currently i am in Miami and pulling emails on my lap top and then
> skypeout back to farm....but earlier made mistake of using my US cell
> to call BT 20 mins of wasted time and $30 of calling time --- followed
> up by 43 mins of skype to the same number ---- and still nothing.
>
> how do i find out other ISPs that are available on our exchange ---
> very rural 01874 636xxx Sennybridge in rural wales...

Sorry to say your wife needs to ring up and go through the series of tests 
they will want her to do.
For info on other ISP's on Sennybridge try
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SWSVB

On 15 Jul, 06:36, "SJP" <some...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
> "ianh"  wrote in message
>
> news:dd725d9e-6d74-4008-9dec-b2f1593b869e@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > n 14 Jul, 21:21, anyhtinguwant@anywhereuwanttogoto wrote:
> >> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:36:00 +0100, "SJP" <some...@somewhere.invalid>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >"ianh"  wrote in message
> >> >news:7eaa62f7-2f9e-4fa1-86fa-25cd908efc23@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> >> >> does anybody have a number for BT Broadband that can short cut the
> >> >> call to the sub continent.
>
> >> >> 4 weeks without BB now... and just had second $40.00 call of the day
> >> >> trying to find out what is happening.
>
> >> >> Same old script -- 15+ min call -- same procedures
>
> >> >Why is it costing you anything?
>
> >> And why is it in $$$$$'s
>
> > Sadly i work away from home a lot and my wife runs our buisness using
> > the BB from the farm.
>
> > So currently i am in Miami and pulling emails on my lap top and then
> > skypeout back to farm....but earlier made mistake of using my US cell
> > to call BT 20 mins of wasted time and $30 of calling time --- followed
> > up by 43 mins of skype to the same number ---- and still nothing.
>
> > how do i find out other ISPs that are available on our exchange ---
> > very rural 01874 636xxx Sennybridge in rural wales...
>
> Sorry to say your wife needs to ring up and go through the series of tests
> they will want her to do.
> For info on other ISP's on Sennybridge tryhttp://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SWSVB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

thanks --- so it looks like BT is only option on our exchange....

anybody have any experiance of a backup 3g or GPRS link to a lAN as a
back up...

I expanded my experiance in discovering that i could access email via
mobile all be it rather slowly.

regards

ianh  wrote on Tue, 15 Jul 2008:

>thanks --- so it looks like BT is only option on our exchange....

I think you're misunderstanding, Ian. BT Wholesale's ADSLMax is the only 
option at your exchange, but that's very different from having to put up 
with BT the ISP and its notoriously poor service.

You should be able to switch to any ISP that uses Max. Zen and IDNet are 
two very good, reliable providers that have UK helpdesks and I'm sure 
you'll get a lot of other recommendations here :-), depending on what 
you need and how much you want to spend.

You could also have a look at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ for info, 
comparisons and user ratings of many ISPs. If you like the look of any 
of them, visit their broadband home page; there's usually a checker 
where you can enter your phone number to be sure they can supply you, 
but as you're on an ADSL-enabled exchange this shouldn't be a problem.

Let us know how you get on :-)
-- 
Nightowl

ianh wrote:
> On 15 Jul, 06:36, "SJP" <some...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
>> tryhttp://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SWSVB- Hide quoted

> thanks --- so it looks like BT is only option on our exchange....

As with anyone in a semi rural or rural location.  But, as Nightowl said, 
that is a BT-Wholesale provided ADSL service.  Your choice of Broadband 
provider is several hundred, with vastly different service levels, speeds, 
restrictions and prices.

If wanting high reliability with decent UK support, several to choose from, 
and probably no more expensive than the BT-Retail provided service you 
currently have.
You need a MAC code from the existing provider to migrate, and you might 
need a new home router if you have the BT "HomeHub" unit (it can be hacked 
to move away from BT Broadband, but as its security is weak anyway, I'd get 
something else). My wireless router was ~£50.


> anybody have any experiance of a backup 3g or GPRS link to a lAN as a
> back up...

I use a PAYG phone from Vodafone for occaisional access when travelling in 
the UK. Its far from the cheapest if used regularly (£1/day for sane amount 
of data), but for me it costs in easily for me with about £40 per year of 
PAYG top-ups. Its good enough to read websites and email on a webmail 
interface and type short replies.
I can get a data link via bluetooth from my computer to phone and hence GPRS 
data; done once to prove it worked, but not needed in anger.

Data from abroad would be criminally expensive, instead stick to voice calls 
which at least have EU caps on the extortionate rates.

I know others who have 3G data contracts, but those don't cost in for me.



regards,

- Nigel


-- 
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Latest update
BT openworld engineer left message at home today...

he had traced signal from Exchange to location 1mile from exchange ---
but had run out of time and we need to contact the ISP to allocate
more time to find fault.

apparently he is only allocated 2 hours to find fault.

needless to say the line works as a POTS line perfectly nice and clean
with no noise...

so its back on the phones shortly to the sub continent..

one thourght i have is as we have two lines to farm to try another isp
on the line without adsl and get a load balancing switch...

but as lines are supplied by open reach is it going to make a
difference.

On 15 Jul, 18:22, ianh  wrote:
> Latest update
> BT openworld engineer left message at home today...
>
> he had traced signal from Exchange to location 1mile from exchange ---
> but had run out of time and we need to contact the ISP to allocate
> more time to find fault.
>
> apparently he is only allocated 2 hours to find fault.
>
> needless to say the line works as a POTS line perfectly nice and clean
> with no noise...
>
> so its back on the phones shortly to the sub continent..
>
> one thourght i have is as we have two lines to farm to try another isp
> on the line without adsl and get a load balancing switch...
>
> but as lines are supplied by open reach is it going to make a
> difference.


Update ---- Order placed with IDnet for trial on 2nd line ---- fingers
crossed

"ianh"  wrote in message 
news:6e6a449f-538e-4d93-b856-dcbc0d5fe365@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On 15 Jul, 18:22, ianh  wrote:
>> Latest update
>> BT openworld engineer left message at home today...
>>
>> he had traced signal from Exchange to location 1mile from exchange ---
>> but had run out of time and we need to contact the ISP to allocate
>> more time to find fault.
>>
>> apparently he is only allocated 2 hours to find fault.
>>
>> needless to say the line works as a POTS line perfectly nice and clean
>> with no noise...
>>
>> so its back on the phones shortly to the sub continent..
>>
>> one thourght i have is as we have two lines to farm to try another isp
>> on the line without adsl and get a load balancing switch...
>>
>> but as lines are supplied by open reach is it going to make a
>> difference.
>
>
> Update ---- Order placed with IDnet for trial on 2nd line ---- fingers
> crossed

The correct equipment to achieve load balancing is a router.  The new Vigor 
2820 series are good for this, one WAN port is ADSL, the other erthenet. 
The ehternet port requires an ADSL modem, such as the Vigor 110.

Your earlier point; it is the quality of the ISP that is the key issue, not 
the fact that lines are actually supplied by BT Openreach.

-- 
Graham J

On 15 Jul, 19:01, "Graham J"  wrote:
> "ianh"  wrote in message
>
> news:6e6a449f-538e-4d93-b856-dcbc0d5fe365@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 15 Jul, 18:22, ianh  wrote:
> >> Latest update
> >> BT openworld engineer left message at home today...
>
> >> he had traced signal from Exchange to location 1mile from exchange ---
> >> but had run out of time and we need to contact the ISP to allocate
> >> more time to find fault.
>
> >> apparently he is only allocated 2 hours to find fault.
>
> >> needless to say the line works as a POTS line perfectly nice and clean
> >> with no noise...
>
> >> so its back on the phones shortly to the sub continent..
>
> >> one thourght i have is as we have two lines to farm to try another isp
> >> on the line without adsl and get a load balancing switch...
>
> >> but as lines are supplied by open reach is it going to make a
> >> difference.
>
> > Update ---- Order placed with IDnet for trial on 2nd line ---- fingers
> > crossed
>
> The correct equipment to achieve load balancing is a router.  The new Vigor
> 2820 series are good for this, one WAN port is ADSL, the other erthenet.
> The ehternet port requires an ADSL modem, such as the Vigor 110.
>
> Your earlier point; it is the quality of the ISP that is the key issue, not
> the fact that lines are actually supplied by BT Openreach.
>
> --
> Graham J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for advice.

Idnet People are nice...answer by email as well.

So purchased 2 adslnation filtered faceplates and a Xmodem

and a Lynksys RV042 to load share the 2 lines until I get tired of BT
-- then it might goto GPRS as a backup


thanks for assistance and advice...

will update when i get back to uk and try kit..

Update on missing broadband.

returned home last week and started to pester bt...

almost daily calls to subcontinent and repeated requests for
information on what lights were flashing..

No progress -- then last week after something was " uncapped " " a
restriction to provide a more stable connection" we connected at 128k
again -

Sadly this only lasted 24 hours.. now one week later Bt broadband have
said that Bt wholesale cannot provide a broadband service on our
lines..

My question is, how having provided a service for in excess of two
years can BTwholesale suddenly be unable to provide a service?

I think the answere might lie in the following.

prior to broadband being enabled on our exchange we used dial up.

firstly we had a dacs pair and could get 22k dial up.
the dacs was removed and we got 32K --- after a program of local re
jointing it rose up to 36k and 38k
and eventualyinto the 40k range.

When the line got to 40K+ broadband would connect...

now the dial up will only connect at 32k and36k -----

me thinks a line fault or detirioration 6 weeks ago might be fault --
rather than a exchange fault.

But what pisses me off is.  how can we recieve a service for in excess
of 2 years ---and nobody at the isp seems to be interested..

ian  via 32k dial up ---- and that hurts

"ianh"  wrote in message 
news:001b0a47-11ba-4c6c-bd64-6710bdd0bad9@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Update on missing broadband.
>
> returned home last week and started to pester bt...
>
> almost daily calls to subcontinent and repeated requests for
> information on what lights were flashing..
>
> No progress -- then last week after something was " uncapped " " a
> restriction to provide a more stable connection" we connected at 128k
> again -
>
> Sadly this only lasted 24 hours.. now one week later Bt broadband have
> said that Bt wholesale cannot provide a broadband service on our
> lines..
>
> My question is, how having provided a service for in excess of two
> years can BTwholesale suddenly be unable to provide a service?
>
> I think the answere might lie in the following.
>
> prior to broadband being enabled on our exchange we used dial up.
>
> firstly we had a dacs pair and could get 22k dial up.
> the dacs was removed and we got 32K --- after a program of local re
> jointing it rose up to 36k and 38k
> and eventualyinto the 40k range.
>
> When the line got to 40K+ broadband would connect...
>
> now the dial up will only connect at 32k and36k -----
>
> me thinks a line fault or detirioration 6 weeks ago might be fault --
> rather than a exchange fault.
>
> But what pisses me off is.  how can we recieve a service for in excess
> of 2 years ---and nobody at the isp seems to be interested..
>
> ian  via 32k dial up ---- and that hurts

Apply to a professional ISP - others here would suggest A&A, Idnet, or Zen - 
these ISPs generally have better control over BT to get something done. 
Perhaps even ring their technical support first, and ask whether they think 
they can offer a service.  One month contract, so no ling term cost if it 
fails.

-- 
Graham J

On 7 Aug, 10:18, "Graham J"  wrote:
> "ianh"  wrote in message
>
> news:001b0a47-11ba-4c6c-bd64-6710bdd0bad9@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Update on missing broadband.
>
> > returned home last week and started to pester bt...
>
> > almost daily calls to subcontinent and repeated requests for
> > information on what lights were flashing..
>
> > No progress -- then last week after something was " uncapped " " a
> > restriction to provide a more stable connection" we connected at 128k
> > again -
>
> > Sadly this only lasted 24 hours.. now one week later Bt broadband have
> > said that Bt wholesale cannot provide a broadband service on our
> > lines..
>
> > My question is, how having provided a service for in excess of two
> > years can BTwholesale suddenly be unable to provide a service?
>
> > I think the answere might lie in the following.
>
> > prior to broadband being enabled on our exchange we used dial up.
>
> > firstly we had a dacs pair and could get 22k dial up.
> > the dacs was removed and we got 32K --- after a program of local re
> > jointing it rose up to 36k and 38k
> > and eventualyinto the 40k range.
>
> > When the line got to 40K broadband would connect...
>
> > now the dial up will only connect at 32k and36k -----
>
> > me thinks a line fault or detirioration 6 weeks ago might be fault --
> > rather than a exchange fault.
>
> > But what pisses me off is.  how can we recieve a service for in excess
> > of 2 years ---and nobody at the isp seems to be interested..
>
> > ian  via 32k dial up ---- and that hurts
>
> Apply to a professional ISP - others here would suggest A&A, Idnet, or Zen -
> these ISPs generally have better control over BT to get something done.
> Perhaps even ring their technical support first, and ask whether they think
> they can offer a service.  One month contract, so no ling term cost if it
> fails.
>
> --
> Graham J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

All ready have IDnet trying to get service on primary line into office
with no sucess.
very happy with their help desk -- but they still have to deal with BT
wholesale -- who now say line can't support BB

BT broadband has been on fax line for last 2 years

Is there a minimum standard of line?  should a line be expected to
support dial up at over 40K?

"ianh"  wrote in message 
news:be636ad6-90b4-47b6-9f10-e69e659456da@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On 7 Aug, 10:18, "Graham J"  wrote:
> "ianh"  wrote in message
>
> news:001b0a47-11ba-4c6c-bd64-6710bdd0bad9@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Update on missing broadband.
>
> > returned home last week and started to pester bt...
>
> > almost daily calls to subcontinent and repeated requests for
> > information on what lights were flashing..
>
> > No progress -- then last week after something was " uncapped " " a
> > restriction to provide a more stable connection" we connected at 128k
> > again -
>
> > Sadly this only lasted 24 hours.. now one week later Bt broadband have
> > said that Bt wholesale cannot provide a broadband service on our
> > lines..
>
> > My question is, how having provided a service for in excess of two
> > years can BTwholesale suddenly be unable to provide a service?
>
> > I think the answere might lie in the following.
>
> > prior to broadband being enabled on our exchange we used dial up.
>
> > firstly we had a dacs pair and could get 22k dial up.
> > the dacs was removed and we got 32K --- after a program of local re
> > jointing it rose up to 36k and 38k
> > and eventualyinto the 40k range.
>
> > When the line got to 40K+ broadband would connect...
>
> > now the dial up will only connect at 32k and36k -----
>
> > me thinks a line fault or detirioration 6 weeks ago might be fault --
> > rather than a exchange fault.
>
> > But what pisses me off is. how can we recieve a service for in excess
> > of 2 years ---and nobody at the isp seems to be interested..
>
> > ian via 32k dial up ---- and that hurts
>
> Apply to a professional ISP - others here would suggest A&A, Idnet, or 
> Zen -
> these ISPs generally have better control over BT to get something done.
> Perhaps even ring their technical support first, and ask whether they 
> think
> they can offer a service. One month contract, so no ling term cost if it
> fails.
>
> --
> Graham J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

All ready have IDnet trying to get service on primary line into office
with no sucess.
very happy with their help desk -- but they still have to deal with BT
wholesale -- who now say line can't support BB

BT broadband has been on fax line for last 2+ years

Is there a minimum standard of line?  should a line be expected to
support dial up at over 40K?

-------------------------------

OK so you have two lines, yes?

The fax line has BT broadband and works OK.  What performance figures does 
its router report?  Do you know anything about the distance from the 
exchange?  Normally I would recommend changing this to a competent ISP but 
under the circumstances you would probably be better advised to leave well 
alone until you get a working alternative on another line.

The primary line currently has no ADSL  service, yet previously it did have 
ADSL - yes?  Do you remember what performance the router reported when it 
did work?

You've talked to Idnet who say that they will not be able to provide ADSL 
because BT tell them it's impossible.  We might guess that the line 
deteriorated to the extent that BT could not repair it, and for whatever 
reason BT cannot find an alternative line.  This may simply be that the cost 
of remedial work exceeds £1000.  Do you know anything about other users of 
broadband in the area?  Is there a general shortage?

Next question: how important is broadband to your business?  Would it be 
worth applying from scratch for a new line then getting a competent ISP to 
provision it with broadband?   You might have to apply from a different 
business name if there's a shortage of line plant, since the only obligation 
that BT have is to provide a voice service, and once a business has a single 
voice line they're not entitled to another.

Why not talk to A&A about alternatives to ADSL?

Ultimately broadband should become a universal service obligation; so you 
should talk to your MP and push for a change in the legislation.

-- 
Graham J

> -------------------------------
>
> OK so you have two lines, yes?
>
> The fax line has BT broadband and works OK.  What performance figures does
> its router report?  Do you know anything about the distance from the
> exchange?  Normally I would recommend changing this to a competent ISP but
> under the circumstances you would probably be better advised to leave well
> alone until you get a working alternative on another line.
>
> The primary line currently has no ADSL  service, yet previously it did have
> ADSL - yes?  Do you remember what performance the router reported when it
> did work?
>
> You've talked to Idnet who say that they will not be able to provide ADSL
> because BT tell them it's impossible.  We might guess that the line
> deteriorated to the extent that BT could not repair it, and for whatever
> reason BT cannot find an alternative line.  This may simply be that the cost
> of remedial work exceeds £1000.  Do you know anything about other users of
> broadband in the area?  Is there a general shortage?
>
> Next question: how important is broadband to your business?  Would it be
> worth applying from scratch for a new line then getting a competent ISP to
> provision it with broadband?   You might have to apply from a different
> business name if there's a shortage of line plant, since the only obligation
> that BT have is to provide a voice service, and once a business has a single
> voice line they're not entitled to another.
>
> Why not talk to A&A about alternatives to ADSL?
>
> Ultimately broadband should become a universal service obligation; so you
> should talk to your MP and push for a change in the legislation.
>
> --
> Graham J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sorry to confuse.

We have had BT Broadband on our fax line for 2 years until 6 weeks
ago..

I have tried to enable adsl on our primary voice line through Idnet...
BT wholesale accepted order and enabled the line. but it wont sync

So we should have BT BB on one line and IDnet on a new line... both
feeding a load shareing switch in the office.

my experiance with BT BB on our fax line is that it will only sync if
a Dial up modem can connect at greater than 40K, currently the line is
connecting at 33 or 36k ---

we are on a long line ---- the Bt engineers seemed stunned when it did
sync ----But it Did for in excess of two years

Ok the speeds we not that great...   512k if we were very lucky but
WTF thats better than 28k.

after much long and heated discussion about flashing lights with India
-- something happened last week...

apparently the line was "uncapped" -- and within 3 hours it had
resynced for 24 hours then it failed.

stats were not great

Line mode G.DMT
Latency Type  Interleaved
Line coading Trellis On
line rate 160k up 288kdown
noise margin 8.0db up 8.0db down
line att 63.5db up 31.5 down
out power 11.8dbm up 12.3 down

router is a BT Voyager 220v with lots of flashing lights.


regards

Ian

"ianh"  wrote in message 
news:8d9afbc7-893e-4dbb-8795-b94ce40ff61d@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> -------------------------------
>
> OK so you have two lines, yes?
>
> The fax line has BT broadband and works OK. What performance figures does
> its router report? Do you know anything about the distance from the
> exchange? Normally I would recommend changing this to a competent ISP but
> under the circumstances you would probably be better advised to leave well
> alone until you get a working alternative on another line.
>
> The primary line currently has no ADSL service, yet previously it did have
> ADSL - yes? Do you remember what performance the router reported when it
> did work?
>
> You've talked to Idnet who say that they will not be able to provide ADSL
> because BT tell them it's impossible. We might guess that the line
> deteriorated to the extent that BT could not repair it, and for whatever
> reason BT cannot find an alternative line. This may simply be that the 
> cost
> of remedial work exceeds £1000. Do you know anything about other users of
> broadband in the area? Is there a general shortage?
>
> Next question: how important is broadband to your business? Would it be
> worth applying from scratch for a new line then getting a competent ISP to
> provision it with broadband? You might have to apply from a different
> business name if there's a shortage of line plant, since the only 
> obligation
> that BT have is to provide a voice service, and once a business has a 
> single
> voice line they're not entitled to another.
>
> Why not talk to A&A about alternatives to ADSL?
>
> Ultimately broadband should become a universal service obligation; so you
> should talk to your MP and push for a change in the legislation.
>
> --
> Graham J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sorry to confuse.

We have had BT Broadband on our fax line for 2+ years until 6 weeks
ago..

I have tried to enable adsl on our primary voice line through Idnet...
BT wholesale accepted order and enabled the line. but it wont sync

So we should have BT BB on one line and IDnet on a new line... both
feeding a load shareing switch in the office.

my experiance with BT BB on our fax line is that it will only sync if
a Dial up modem can connect at greater than 40K, currently the line is
connecting at 33 or 36k ---

we are on a long line ---- the Bt engineers seemed stunned when it did
sync ----But it Did for in excess of two years

Ok the speeds we not that great...   512k if we were very lucky but
WTF thats better than 28k.

after much long and heated discussion about flashing lights with India
-- something happened last week...

apparently the line was "uncapped" -- and within 3 hours it had
resynced for 24 hours then it failed.

stats were not great

Line mode G.DMT
Latency Type  Interleaved
Line coading Trellis On
line rate 160k up 288kdown
noise margin 8.0db up 8.0db down
line att 63.5db up 31.5 down
out power 11.8dbm up 12.3 down

router is a BT Voyager 220v with lots of flashing lights.

=======================================

First, try some other routers on the line used for fax.  A Vigor 2600 with 
the long line firmware may be an advantage.  I had a client (now moved away) 
who was 8km from the exchange.  A Vigor 2600 with standard firmware held a 
99% reliable connection at 288k up / 288kdown with the line fixed at these 
parameters by Zen.  SNR margin was about 7db, and attentuation about 74dB. 
Before fixing it achieved about 540kdown but was unreliable, SNR margin 
would drop to 2dB and throughput would drop to nearly nothing.

What is the cable length to your exchange?

When this was set up it didn't work at all, so Zen called out BT who 
replaced some lengths of cable and fitted a new master socket and a 
faceplate microfilter.  Your SNR margin and attenuation figures ought to 
give a reliable if basic service!

When you've tried several routers, keep the best, and change the ISP for Zen 
or Andrews & Arnold.  That way you don't suffer from any preconceived 
knowledge that Idnet may have about you.  Andrews & Arnold can set up LCP 
monitoring and actively watch your line, ringing you when it fails and 
telling you what they will do about fixing it.  At a cost, of course.

Do you still have the Idnet contract on the primary line?  If so, try some 
different routers.  If none sync, Idnet should at least be able to get BT to 
send a technician out to investigate.  An Openreach technician explained to 
me that new master sockets perform better in marginal circumstances (this 
may be complete BS) so they should at least try.  If Idnet can't get BT to 
send out a technician, then change ISP.

Given the circumstances, you should also make every effort to get your 
internal wiring absolutely perfect.

Others here may recommend an ISP who can apply pressure to BT ...

-- 
Graham J

On 7 Aug, 21:09, "Graham J"  wrote:
> "ianh"  wrote in message
>
> news:8d9afbc7-893e-4dbb-8795-b94ce40ff61d@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > -------------------------------
>
> > OK so you have two lines, yes?
>
> > The fax line has BT broadband and works OK. What performance figures does
> > its router report? Do you know anything about the distance from the
> > exchange? Normally I would recommend changing this to a competent ISP but
> > under the circumstances you would probably be better advised to leave well
> > alone until you get a working alternative on another line.
>
> > The primary line currently has no ADSL service, yet previously it did have
> > ADSL - yes? Do you remember what performance the router reported when it
> > did work?
>
> > You've talked to Idnet who say that they will not be able to provide ADSL
> > because BT tell them it's impossible. We might guess that the line
> > deteriorated to the extent that BT could not repair it, and for whatever
> > reason BT cannot find an alternative line. This may simply be that the
> > cost
> > of remedial work exceeds £1000. Do you know anything about other users of
> > broadband in the area? Is there a general shortage?
>
> > Next question: how important is broadband to your business? Would it be
> > worth applying from scratch for a new line then getting a competent ISP to
> > provision it with broadband? You might have to apply from a different
> > business name if there's a shortage of line plant, since the only
> > obligation
> > that BT have is to provide a voice service, and once a business has a
> > single
> > voice line they're not entitled to another.
>
> > Why not talk to A&A about alternatives to ADSL?
>
> > Ultimately broadband should become a universal service obligation; so you
> > should talk to your MP and push for a change in the legislation.
>
> > --
> > Graham J- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Sorry to confuse.
>
> We have had BT Broadband on our fax line for 2 years until 6 weeks
> ago..
>
> I have tried to enable adsl on our primary voice line through Idnet...
> BT wholesale accepted order and enabled the line. but it wont sync
>
> So we should have BT BB on one line and IDnet on a new line... both
> feeding a load shareing switch in the office.
>
> my experiance with BT BB on our fax line is that it will only sync if
> a Dial up modem can connect at greater than 40K, currently the line is
> connecting at 33 or 36k ---
>
> we are on a long line ---- the Bt engineers seemed stunned when it did
> sync ----But it Did for in excess of two years
>
> Ok the speeds we not that great...   512k if we were very lucky but
> WTF thats better than 28k.
>
> after much long and heated discussion about flashing lights with India
> -- something happened last week...
>
> apparently the line was "uncapped" -- and within 3 hours it had
> resynced for 24 hours then it failed.
>
> stats were not great
>
> Line mode G.DMT
> Latency Type  Interleaved
> Line coading Trellis On
> line rate 160k up 288kdown
> noise margin 8.0db up 8.0db down
> line att 63.5db up 31.5 down
> out power 11.8dbm up 12.3 down
>
> router is a BT Voyager 220v with lots of flashing lights.
>
> =======================================
>
> First, try some other routers on the line used for fax.  A Vigor 2600 with
> the long line firmware may be an advantage.  I had a client (now moved away)
> who was 8km from the exchange.  A Vigor 2600 with standard firmware held a
> 99% reliable connection at 288k up / 288kdown with the line fixed at these
> parameters by Zen.  SNR margin was about 7db, and attentuation about 74dB.
> Before fixing it achieved about 540kdown but was unreliable, SNR margin
> would drop to 2dB and throughput would drop to nearly nothing.
>
> What is the cable length to your exchange?
>
> When this was set up it didn't work at all, so Zen called out BT who
> replaced some lengths of cable and fitted a new master socket and a
> faceplate microfilter.  Your SNR margin and attenuation figures ought to
> give a reliable if basic service!
>
> When you've tried several routers, keep the best, and change the ISP for Zen
> or Andrews & Arnold.  That way you don't suffer from any preconceived
> knowledge that Idnet may have about you.  Andrews & Arnold can set up LCP
> monitoring and actively watch your line, ringing you when it fails and
> telling you what they will do about fixing it.  At a cost, of course.
>
> Do you still have the Idnet contract on the primary line?  If so, try some
> different routers.  If none sync, Idnet should at least be able to get BT to
> send a technician out to investigate.  An Openreach technician explained to
> me that new master sockets perform better in marginal circumstances (this
> may be complete BS) so they should at least try.  If Idnet can't get BT to
> send out a technician, then change ISP.
>
> Given the circumstances, you should also make every effort to get your
> internal wiring absolutely perfect.
>
> Others here may recommend an ISP who can apply pressure to BT ...
>
> --
> Graham J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for reply,

i have just fitted a vigor 2600 to the BT broadband line running
2.5.4_uk2 firmwhere, what is latest long line firmwhere?

and can I upload it from local network

All wiring is by BT and less that 2 years old ---and everything is
plugged direct into master socket.

any benefit in using adslnation filtered faceplact over bt supplied
filter?

ian

ianh wrote:
> On 7 Aug, 21:09, "Graham J"  wrote:
>> "ianh"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:8d9afbc7-893e-4dbb-8795-b94ce40ff61d@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> OK so you have two lines, yes?
>>> The fax line has BT broadband and works OK. What performance figures does
>>> its router report? Do you know anything about the distance from the
>>> exchange? Normally I would recommend changing this to a competent ISP but
>>> under the circumstances you would probably be better advised to leave well
>>> alone until you get a working alternative on another line.
>>> The primary line currently has no ADSL service, yet previously it did have
>>> ADSL - yes? Do you remember what performance the router reported when it
>>> did work?
>>> You've talked to Idnet who say that they will not be able to provide ADSL
>>> because BT tell them it's impossible. We might guess that the line
>>> deteriorated to the extent that BT could not repair it, and for whatever
>>> reason BT cannot find an alternative line. This may simply be that the
>>> cost
>>> of remedial work exceeds £1000. Do you know anything about other users of
>>> broadband in the area? Is there a general shortage?
>>> Next question: how important is broadband to your business? Would it be
>>> worth applying from scratch for a new line then getting a competent ISP to
>>> provision it with broadband? You might have to apply from a different
>>> business name if there's a shortage of line plant, since the only
>>> obligation
>>> that BT have is to provide a voice service, and once a business has a
>>> single
>>> voice line they're not entitled to another.
>>> Why not talk to A&A about alternatives to ADSL?
>>> Ultimately broadband should become a universal service obligation; so you
>>> should talk to your MP and push for a change in the legislation.
>>> --
>>> Graham J- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> Sorry to confuse.
>>
>> We have had BT Broadband on our fax line for 2+ years until 6 weeks
>> ago..
>>
>> I have tried to enable adsl on our primary voice line through Idnet...
>> BT wholesale accepted order and enabled the line. but it wont sync
>>
>> So we should have BT BB on one line and IDnet on a new line... both
>> feeding a load shareing switch in the office.
>>
>> my experiance with BT BB on our fax line is that it will only sync if
>> a Dial up modem can connect at greater than 40K, currently the line is
>> connecting at 33 or 36k ---
>>
>> we are on a long line ---- the Bt engineers seemed stunned when it did
>> sync ----But it Did for in excess of two years
>>
>> Ok the speeds we not that great...   512k if we were very lucky but
>> WTF thats better than 28k.
>>
>> after much long and heated discussion about flashing lights with India
>> -- something happened last week...
>>
>> apparently the line was "uncapped" -- and within 3 hours it had
>> resynced for 24 hours then it failed.
>>
>> stats were not great
>>
>> Line mode G.DMT
>> Latency Type  Interleaved
>> Line coading Trellis On
>> line rate 160k up 288kdown
>> noise margin 8.0db up 8.0db down
>> line att 63.5db up 31.5 down
>> out power 11.8dbm up 12.3 down
>>
>> router is a BT Voyager 220v with lots of flashing lights.
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> First, try some other routers on the line used for fax.  A Vigor 2600 with
>> the long line firmware may be an advantage.  I had a client (now moved away)
>> who was 8km from the exchange.  A Vigor 2600 with standard firmware held a
>> 99% reliable connection at 288k up / 288kdown with the line fixed at these
>> parameters by Zen.  SNR margin was about 7db, and attentuation about 74dB.
>> Before fixing it achieved about 540kdown but was unreliable, SNR margin
>> would drop to 2dB and throughput would drop to nearly nothing.
>>
>> What is the cable length to your exchange?
>>
>> When this was set up it didn't work at all, so Zen called out BT who
>> replaced some lengths of cable and fitted a new master socket and a
>> faceplate microfilter.  Your SNR margin and attenuation figures ought to
>> give a reliable if basic service!
>>
>> When you've tried several routers, keep the best, and change the ISP for Zen
>> or Andrews & Arnold.  That way you don't suffer from any preconceived
>> knowledge that Idnet may have about you.  Andrews & Arnold can set up LCP
>> monitoring and actively watch your line, ringing you when it fails and
>> telling you what they will do about fixing it.  At a cost, of course.
>>
>> Do you still have the Idnet contract on the primary line?  If so, try some
>> different routers.  If none sync, Idnet should at least be able to get BT to
>> send a technician out to investigate.  An Openreach technician explained to
>> me that new master sockets perform better in marginal circumstances (this
>> may be complete BS) so they should at least try.  If Idnet can't get BT to
>> send out a technician, then change ISP.
>>
>> Given the circumstances, you should also make every effort to get your
>> internal wiring absolutely perfect.
>>
>> Others here may recommend an ISP who can apply pressure to BT ...
>>
>> --
>> Graham J- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Thanks for reply,
> 
> i have just fitted a vigor 2600+ to the BT broadband line running
> 2.5.4_uk2 firmwhere, what is latest long line firmwhere?
> 
> and can I upload it from local network
> 
> All wiring is by BT and less that 2 years old ---and everything is
> plugged direct into master socket.
> 
> any benefit in using adslnation filtered faceplact over bt supplied
> filter?
> 
> ian
I fear you are clutching at straws. you are at the end of a highly 
attenuating really nice aerial that picks up MW..oh and is supposed to 
have some ADSL on it too.

If pulling all the pohnes off and going into the master socket doesn't 
work, a fancy faceplate wont either..

[snip]
> First, try some other routers on the line used for fax. A Vigor 2600 with
> the long line firmware may be an advantage. I had a client (now moved 
> away)
> who was 8km from the exchange. A Vigor 2600 with standard firmware held a
> 99% reliable connection at 288k up / 288kdown with the line fixed at these
> parameters by Zen. SNR margin was about 7db, and attentuation about 74dB.
> Before fixing it achieved about 540kdown but was unreliable, SNR margin
> would drop to 2dB and throughput would drop to nearly nothing.
>
> What is the cable length to your exchange?
>
> When this was set up it didn't work at all, so Zen called out BT who
> replaced some lengths of cable and fitted a new master socket and a
> faceplate microfilter. Your SNR margin and attenuation figures ought to
> give a reliable if basic service!
>
> When you've tried several routers, keep the best, and change the ISP for 
> Zen
> or Andrews & Arnold. That way you don't suffer from any preconceived
> knowledge that Idnet may have about you. Andrews & Arnold can set up LCP
> monitoring and actively watch your line, ringing you when it fails and
> telling you what they will do about fixing it. At a cost, of course.
>
> Do you still have the Idnet contract on the primary line? If so, try some
> different routers. If none sync, Idnet should at least be able to get BT 
> to
> send a technician out to investigate. An Openreach technician explained to
> me that new master sockets perform better in marginal circumstances (this
> may be complete BS) so they should at least try. If Idnet can't get BT to
> send out a technician, then change ISP.
>
> Given the circumstances, you should also make every effort to get your
> internal wiring absolutely perfect.
>
> Others here may recommend an ISP who can apply pressure to BT ...
>
> --
> Graham J- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for reply,

i have just fitted a vigor 2600+ to the BT broadband line running
2.5.4_uk2 firmwhere, what is latest long line firmwhere?

and can I upload it from local network

All wiring is by BT and less that 2 years old ---and everything is
plugged direct into master socket.

any benefit in using adslnation filtered faceplact over bt supplied
filter?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Firmware for Vigor routers is available from:
http://www.draytek.com/support/download.php

Check very carefully the exact version of firmware you require, see:
http://ftp.draytek.com/support/download/Vigor2600V.php
You probably require :
2.5.8.3
English
22/08/2006
txt
AnnexA is with ADI firmware 43E2EAA1
( recommended for high DB users which are using ADSL extended line on the 
UK )

You can upload the firmware from the LAN - download the router tools and 
read the instructions.

Is the BT supplied filter a faceplate style?  If so, it should be at least 
as good as the product from ADSLNation.

Please report back the router stats: 
up-speed/down-speed/SNR-Margin/Loop-Attentuation

-- 
Graham J