A customer has a problem with her ADSL connection. It worked until a few 
days ago but now, although the router can still connect and is given valid 
WAN IP, gateway and DNS server addresses by the ISP (BT Broadband), she 
cannot access any web sites - pinging any site either by domain name or IP 
fails with "cannot resolve" or "no reply" respectively.

I've tried with a different router and a different PC, and these fail in 
exactly the same way. That tends to eliminate router and PC faults.

Her router, a Netgear DG834G, has the ability to ping from the router 
itself, as opposed to pinging from a PC connected to the router, and that 
also fails.

BT Broadband technical support took a long time and tested a lot but did not 
achieve anything, but eventually I persauded them to do a line test which 
showed no fault. They thought that there was "an outage" with this exchange, 
but it's not one of the ones that they mention on their service status phone 
number.

What is the next step I should take in getting the fault fixed?

Has anyone seen this sort of fault, where the router indicates that it is 
successfully connected but cannot access any external address, either by 
browsing or pinging - and that includes the gateway and DNS servers that are 
allocated to the router by the ISP's DHCP.

"Mortimer"  wrote in message 
news:aqKdnSZfMZRVd8LVnZ2dnUVZ8gydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>A customer has a problem with her ADSL connection. It worked until a few 
>days ago but now, although the router can still connect and is given valid 
>WAN IP, gateway and DNS server addresses by the ISP (BT Broadband), she 
>cannot access any web sites - pinging any site either by domain name or IP 
>fails with "cannot resolve" or "no reply" respectively.
>
> I've tried with a different router and a different PC, and these fail in 
> exactly the same way. That tends to eliminate router and PC faults.
>
> Her router, a Netgear DG834G, has the ability to ping from the router 
> itself, as opposed to pinging from a PC connected to the router, and that 
> also fails.
>
> BT Broadband technical support took a long time and tested a lot but did 
> not achieve anything, but eventually I persauded them to do a line test 
> which showed no fault. They thought that there was "an outage" with this 
> exchange, but it's not one of the ones that they mention on their service 
> status phone number.
>
> What is the next step I should take in getting the fault fixed?
>
> Has anyone seen this sort of fault, where the router indicates that it is 
> successfully connected but cannot access any external address, either by 
> browsing or pinging - and that includes the gateway and DNS servers that 
> are allocated to the router by the ISP's DHCP.

She hasn't just installed Bullguard or similar, has she? (See separate 
thread below)

George

"Mortimer"  wrote in message 
news:aqKdnSZfMZRVd8LVnZ2dnUVZ8gydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>A customer has a problem with her ADSL connection. It worked until a few 
>days ago but now, although the router can still connect and is given valid 
>WAN IP, gateway and DNS server addresses by the ISP (BT Broadband), she 
>cannot access any web sites - pinging any site either by domain name or IP 
>fails with "cannot resolve" or "no reply" respectively.
>
> I've tried with a different router and a different PC, and these fail in 
> exactly the same way. That tends to eliminate router and PC faults.
>
> Her router, a Netgear DG834G, has the ability to ping from the router 
> itself, as opposed to pinging from a PC connected to the router, and that 
> also fails.
>
> BT Broadband technical support took a long time and tested a lot but did 
> not achieve anything, but eventually I persauded them to do a line test 
> which showed no fault. They thought that there was "an outage" with this 
> exchange, but it's not one of the ones that they mention on their service 
> status phone number.
>
> What is the next step I should take in getting the fault fixed?
>
> Has anyone seen this sort of fault, where the router indicates that it is 
> successfully connected but cannot access any external address, either by 
> browsing or pinging - and that includes the gateway and DNS servers that 
> are allocated to the router by the ISP's DHCP.

I think this is clearly a fault with BT.

You should change to a different ISP.

Ring the sales department of the ISP of your choice, and explain that you 
have a problem with the current supplier.  Explain that you want to migrate 
but would need some idea of their technical competence first, so you wish to 
talk to their technical support staff.  When they put you through, explain 
why you are talking to them (which is in contemplation of becoming a 
customer) and describe the fault you are experiencing.  The new technical 
people should understand immediately the nature of the problem and will 
explain how they will fix it.  If you are happy with their explanation, then 
migrate to them.

I experienced a similar problem with a BT connection where ping times to the 
default gateway were intermittently very poor - tens of seconds or complete 
failures - rendering the service virtually unusable.  BT simply did not 
understand the problem.  I therefore rang Zen and explained my predicament, 
as above.  After a short wait I spoke to an engineer who agreed that the 
fault was within the BT system and that if it had been their account they 
would know how to get BT to fix it.

-- 
Graham J

"Mortimer"  wrote in message 
news:aqKdnSZfMZRVd8LVnZ2dnUVZ8gydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>A customer has a problem with her ADSL connection. It worked until a few 
>days ago but now, although the router can still connect and is given valid 
>WAN IP, gateway and DNS server addresses by the ISP (BT Broadband), she 
>cannot access any web sites - pinging any site either by domain name or IP 
>fails with "cannot resolve" or "no reply" respectively.
>
> I've tried with a different router and a different PC, and these fail in 
> exactly the same way. That tends to eliminate router and PC faults.
>
> Her router, a Netgear DG834G, has the ability to ping from the router 
> itself, as opposed to pinging from a PC connected to the router, and that 
> also fails.
>
> BT Broadband technical support took a long time and tested a lot but did 
> not achieve anything, but eventually I persauded them to do a line test 
> which showed no fault. They thought that there was "an outage" with this 
> exchange, but it's not one of the ones that they mention on their service 
> status phone number.
>
> What is the next step I should take in getting the fault fixed?
>

Give me her phone number - it's just one simple setting to change.


> Has anyone seen this sort of fault, where the router indicates that it is 
> successfully connected but cannot access any external address, either by 
> browsing or pinging - and that includes the gateway and DNS servers that 
> are allocated to the router by the ISP's DHCP.
>

"john m" <john@nospam.2net> wrote in message 
news:g3otc6$ckh$1@news.albasani.net...
>
>> What is the next step I should take in getting the fault fixed?
>>
>
> Give me her phone number - it's just one simple setting to change.

And what is that setting? Bear in mind that it happens with two different 
PCs and two different routers, so it (surely?) cannot be a router or PC 
configuration problem.

"Mortimer"  wrote in message 
news:AqGdnXAXbOG7ZsLVnZ2dnUVZ8rGdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> "john m" <john@nospam.2net> wrote in message 
> news:g3otc6$ckh$1@news.albasani.net...
>>
>>> What is the next step I should take in getting the fault fixed?
>>>
>>
>> Give me her phone number - it's just one simple setting to change.
>
> And what is that setting? Bear in mind that it happens with two different 
> PCs and two different routers, so it (surely?) cannot be a router or PC 
> configuration problem.

He's a troll - ignore him

George

Mortimer wrote:
> A customer has a problem with her ADSL connection. It worked until
> a few days ago but now, although the router can still connect and
> is given valid WAN IP, gateway and DNS server addresses by the ISP
> (BT Broadband), she cannot access any web sites - pinging any site
> either by domain name or IP fails with "cannot resolve" or "no
> reply" respectively.
>
> I've tried with a different router and a different PC, and these
> fail in exactly the same way. That tends to eliminate router and PC
> faults.
> Her router, a Netgear DG834G, has the ability to ping from the
> router itself, as opposed to pinging from a PC connected to the
> router, and that also fails.
>
> BT Broadband technical support took a long time and tested a lot
> but did not achieve anything, but eventually I persauded them to do
> a line test which showed no fault. They thought that there was "an
> outage" with this exchange, but it's not one of the ones that they
> mention on their service status phone number.
>
> What is the next step I should take in getting the fault fixed?
>
> Has anyone seen this sort of fault, where the router indicates that
> it is successfully connected but cannot access any external
> address, either by browsing or pinging - and that includes the
> gateway and DNS servers that are allocated to the router by the
> ISP's DHCP.

You've checked all the obviouse things.  It could be that the 'virtual 
pathway' has become corrupted or even that they have been jumpered to 
another DSLAM port (both have been known to happen in the past) & if so 
there is little you can do other than go to the support desk, the problem 
will be getting them to understand let alone do something about it.

Your customer hasn't changed any of her payment plans has she, this has been 
known to lead to ceasation of service as the left hand often doesn't know 
what the right is doing & lastly your customer hasn't changed the number of 
the line which carries the DSL service as this has also been known to cause 
the service to be ceased...

Just a couple of ideas, all of which I'm afraid you can do little with other 
than go to support.

"kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message 
news:fpqdnd2Zc4HBmf3VnZ2dnUVZ8tzinZ2d@bt.com...
> Mortimer wrote:

> You've checked all the obviouse things.  It could be that the 'virtual 
> pathway' has become corrupted or even that they have been jumpered to 
> another DSLAM port (both have been known to happen in the past) & if so 
> there is little you can do other than go to the support desk, the problem 
> will be getting them to understand let alone do something about it.

Yes I spent a long time on the phone to BT Broadband Support while the droid 
(I wouldn't grace her with the term "technician") made me try all sorts of 
things on the PC such as disabling firewall, rebooting, starting in safe 
mode. She came to the conclusion that because the router was establishing a 
connection and getting an IP address, the fault must lie in the PC that was 
connecting to the router. I pointed out that it was a fault which affected 
two different PCs and two different routers (one PC and one router were mine 
and were known to be good). Eventually she passed me to a supervisor who at 
least could work "off script" and also had a better command of English, and 
could adjust her description of what needed to be done to my level of 
technical knowledge.

But the problem wasn't solved. They did a line test but I've lost faith in 
those because I've seen cases so many times when the line test comes back 
clear but there's still a problem as seen at the customer's end.

> Your customer hasn't changed any of her payment plans has she, this has 
> been known to lead to ceasation of service as the left hand often doesn't 
> know what the right is doing & lastly your customer hasn't changed the 
> number of the line which carries the DSL service as this has also been 
> known to cause the service to be ceased...

No. Nothing has been changed. The problem first occurred last Wednesday, so 
not very long ago.

Mortimer wrote :

>
> No. Nothing has been changed. The problem first occurred last Wednesday, so 
> not very long ago.

What happens if you change the router's log in credentials to  
bt_test@startup_domain with a password of test....?

You should only be able to browse to one page - www.bt.net/digitaldemo

"Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message 
news:mn.bd2d7d8638ce54f4.88534@blueyonder.invalid...
> Mortimer wrote :
>
>>
>> No. Nothing has been changed. The problem first occurred last Wednesday, 
>> so not very long ago.
>
> What happens if you change the router's log in credentials to 
> bt_test@startup_domain with a password of test....?
>
> You should only be able to browse to one page - www.bt.net/digitaldemo

Ah I didn't try that.

I've just had a sinister thought: suppose the router was somehow connecting 
to bt_test@startup_domain even though it was configured to use the 
customer's username and password... Could that cause this symptom?

I did notice that when I plugged my own router in, it connected even though 
the ADSL username/password were wrong (because I hadn't even got to that 
config page by the time it established a connection). I've seen this with BT 
broadband before - it looks as if they accept *any* username and password, 
unlike most other ISPs. I did try with the router configured to the correct 
username/password to make certain that I was doing things properly.

Mortimer explained on 23/06/2008 :
> "Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:mn.bd2d7d8638ce54f4.88534@blueyonder.invalid...
>> Mortimer wrote :
>>
>>>
>>> No. Nothing has been changed. The problem first occurred last Wednesday, 
>>> so not very long ago.
>>
>> What happens if you change the router's log in credentials to 
>> bt_test@startup_domain with a password of test....?
>>
>> You should only be able to browse to one page - www.bt.net/digitaldemo
>
> Ah I didn't try that.
>
> I've just had a sinister thought: suppose the router was somehow connecting 
> to bt_test@startup_domain even though it was configured to use the customer's 
> username and password... Could that cause this symptom?

If it was configured with the user's credentials, then no.

The test of BT's side of things is to rule out your ISP and your 
equipment.

Test wether you can reach www.bt.net/digitaldemo with the test login. 
Advise your ISP of your findings.

>
> I did notice that when I plugged my own router in, it connected even though 
> the ADSL username/password were wrong (because I hadn't even got to that 
> config page by the time it established a connection). I've seen this with BT 
> broadband before - it looks as if they accept *any* username and password, 
> unlike most other ISPs. I did try with the router configured to the correct 
> username/password to make certain that I was doing things properly.

Not that I've used many, however, my experience is such that any user's 
credentials of the same ISP can connect and allow internet access on 
any line provisioned for ADSL by that ISP.......though I vaguely recall 
that BT may differ from this....

Mortimer wrote:

>
> I did notice that when I plugged my own router in, it connected even
> though the ADSL username/password were wrong (because I hadn't even
> got to that config page by the time it established a connection).
> I've seen this with BT broadband before - it looks as if they accept
> *any* username and password, unlike most other ISPs. I did try with
> the router configured to the correct username/password to make
> certain that I was doing things properly.

BT don't use the credentials in the router to validate the line, so any 
router which has previously worked on BT will work on any BT line without 
changing any settings.  The security is elsewhere.

So, your router should work at the friend's house.


- Nigel (ex BT involved with internet design, so have a clue on this one)


-- 
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Or could she have been TOS-ed?  Such symptoms can arise from an ISP 
terminating a customer's service without bothering to inform them!

"kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in
news:fpqdnd2Zc4HBmf3VnZ2dnUVZ8tzinZ2d@bt.com: 

> Mortimer wrote:
>> A customer has a problem with her ADSL connection. It worked until
>> a few days ago but now, although the router can still connect and
>> is given valid WAN IP, gateway and DNS server addresses by the ISP
>> (BT Broadband), she cannot access any web sites - pinging any site
>> either by domain name or IP fails with "cannot resolve" or "no
>> reply" respectively.
> 
> Your customer hasn't changed any of her payment plans has she, this
> has been known to lead to ceasation of service as the left hand often
> doesn't know what the right is doing & lastly your customer hasn't
> changed the number of the line which carries the DSL service as this
> has also been known to cause the service to be ceased...

"Mortimer"  wrote in message 
news:urKdnVnKuZXbm_3VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> "kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message 
> news:fpqdnd2Zc4HBmf3VnZ2dnUVZ8tzinZ2d@bt.com...
>> Mortimer wrote:
>
>> You've checked all the obviouse things.  It could be that the 'virtual 
>> pathway' has become corrupted or even that they have been jumpered to 
>> another DSLAM port (both have been known to happen in the past) & if so 
>> there is little you can do other than go to the support desk, the problem 
>> will be getting them to understand let alone do something about it.
>
> Yes I spent a long time on the phone to BT Broadband Support while the 
> droid (I wouldn't grace her with the term "technician") made me try all 
> sorts of things on the PC such as disabling firewall, rebooting, starting 
> in safe mode. She came to the conclusion that because the router was 
> establishing a connection and getting an IP address, the fault must lie in 
> the PC that was connecting to the router. I pointed out that it was a 
> fault which affected two different PCs and two different routers (one PC 
> and one router were mine and were known to be good). Eventually she passed 
> me to a supervisor who at least could work "off script" and also had a 
> better command of English, and could adjust her description of what needed 
> to be done to my level of technical knowledge.
>
> But the problem wasn't solved. They did a line test but I've lost faith in 
> those because I've seen cases so many times when the line test comes back 
> clear but there's still a problem as seen at the customer's end.
>
>> Your customer hasn't changed any of her payment plans has she, this has 
>> been known to lead to ceasation of service as the left hand often doesn't 
>> know what the right is doing & lastly your customer hasn't changed the 
>> number of the line which carries the DSL service as this has also been 
>> known to cause the service to be ceased...
>
> No. Nothing has been changed. The problem first occurred last Wednesday, 
> so not very long ago.

This is the reason why you should change to a competent ISP.  The cost to 
you (and your customer) of your time talking to the BT support desk clearly 
outweighs the cost and inconvenience of changing ISP.   Explain this to your 
customer and I'm sure she will agree.  You might even offer reduced support 
rates if she changes to the ISP you nominate.

Try Zen, or Andrews & Arnold, or Idnet ...

-- 
Graham J

Mortimer wrote:
> A customer has a problem with her ADSL connection. It worked until a
> few days ago but now, although the router can still connect and is
> given valid WAN IP, gateway and DNS server addresses by the ISP (BT
> Broadband), she cannot access any web sites - pinging any site either
> by domain name or IP fails with "cannot resolve" or "no reply"
> respectively.
> I've tried with a different router and a different PC, and these fail
> in exactly the same way. That tends to eliminate router and PC faults.
>
> Her router, a Netgear DG834G, has the ability to ping from the router
> itself, as opposed to pinging from a PC connected to the router, and
> that also fails.
>
> BT Broadband technical support took a long time and tested a lot but
> did not achieve anything, but eventually I persauded them to do a
> line test which showed no fault. They thought that there was "an
> outage" with this exchange, but it's not one of the ones that they
> mention on their service status phone number.
>
> What is the next step I should take in getting the fault fixed?
>
> Has anyone seen this sort of fault, where the router indicates that
> it is successfully connected but cannot access any external address,
> either by browsing or pinging - and that includes the gateway and DNS
> servers that are allocated to the router by the ISP's DHCP.

It could be a DNS issue with BT Broadbands DNS servers. Try using 
208.67.222.222 or 208.67.220.220 as the DNS addresses (www.opendns.com)

"Bill Payer" <a@b.c> wrote in message 
news:n7CdnZB5393ifP3VnZ2dnUVZ8rednZ2d@bt.com...
> Mortimer wrote:
>> Has anyone seen this sort of fault, where the router indicates that
>> it is successfully connected but cannot access any external address,
>> either by browsing or pinging - and that includes the gateway and DNS
>> servers that are allocated to the router by the ISP's DHCP.
>
> It could be a DNS issue with BT Broadbands DNS servers. Try using 
> 208.67.222.222 or 208.67.220.220 as the DNS addresses (www.opendns.com)

My first thought was that it was a DNS issue - until I tried to ping 
www.bbc.co.uk by its IP address 212.58.226.20 and found that there was no 
response there either, and nor was there a response from the gateway address 
or the two DNS servers that DHCP was allocating to the router's WAN 
connection.

Mortimer wrote:
> "Bill Payer" <a@b.c> wrote in message 
> news:n7CdnZB5393ifP3VnZ2dnUVZ8rednZ2d@bt.com...
>> Mortimer wrote:
>>> Has anyone seen this sort of fault, where the router indicates that
>>> it is successfully connected but cannot access any external address,
>>> either by browsing or pinging - and that includes the gateway and DNS
>>> servers that are allocated to the router by the ISP's DHCP.
>> It could be a DNS issue with BT Broadbands DNS servers. Try using 
>> 208.67.222.222 or 208.67.220.220 as the DNS addresses (www.opendns.com)
> 
> My first thought was that it was a DNS issue - until I tried to ping 
> www.bbc.co.uk by its IP address 212.58.226.20 and found that there was no 
> response there either, and nor was there a response from the gateway address 
> or the two DNS servers that DHCP was allocating to the router's WAN 
> connection. 
> 
> 
Use traceroute or whatever its called on a PC ..TRACERT.EXE???


Under unix/mac osx 'traceroute -n ww.XX.yy.ZZ' will just step up the 
line and tell you what IP addresses it can reach. the -n stops it trying 
to give the addresses names, which usually fails if the thing cant do 
DNS cost the routing is screwed.

Also examine router logs if possible..does it fail to log in? that can 
be a frame relay/backhaul issue etc.

If it logs in OK you should be able to 'see' the far end frame relay to 
ISP kits Ip address at least.

"The Natural Philosopher" <a@b.c> wrote in message 
news:1214314630.5100.0@proxy01.news.clara.net...
> Mortimer wrote:
>> "Bill Payer" <a@b.c> wrote in message 
>> news:n7CdnZB5393ifP3VnZ2dnUVZ8rednZ2d@bt.com...
>>> Mortimer wrote:

> Use traceroute or whatever its called on a PC ..TRACERT.EXE???
>
>
> Under unix/mac osx 'traceroute -n ww.XX.yy.ZZ' will just step up the line 
> and tell you what IP addresses it can reach. the -n stops it trying to 
> give the addresses names, which usually fails if the thing cant do DNS 
> cost the routing is screwed.

Ah, I didn't think traceroute would have given me anything useful, but I'll 
give it a try.

> Also examine router logs if possible..does it fail to log in? that can be 
> a frame relay/backhaul issue etc.

The log for the Netgear router looks normal: LCP is down, LCP is allowed to 
come up, CHAP authentication success.

> If it logs in OK you should be able to 'see' the far end frame relay to 
> ISP kits Ip address at least.

Which IP is that? Do you mean the IP address that the ISP's DHCP has 
allocated to the router? If so, yes I can ping that IP address though not 
the gateway address or the DNS server addresses.