Hi,

After several relatively problem free years with Pipex broadband, last
October I switched to a capped broadband plus anytime phone. Since
then everything has gone horribly wrong.

First I started seeing random amounts for additional bandwidth on my
bills. Pipex didn't reply to my emails so I had to phone, and
eventually they admitted these bills were actually for calls. And also
that they were quite large amounts because the salesman had lied to
me, I was only on an evenings and weekends tariff.

It took 6 months of calls and emails to get confirmation that I was on
the correct tariff and to get proper itemised bills. Even today I
don't have itemised bills for the first six months.

But I have now seen that the calls I have had to make to Pipex to get
the billing sorted out were being significantly overcharged and so I
have probably paid about 60 quid just to get Pipex to send me proper
bills.

Then my credit card expired. Pipex don't let you update your card
details online so I had to phone again. I was told it was cheaper to
pay by direct debit, but the promised forms never turned up. Nastygram
from credit control when the payment went overdue, so I had to call
again and pay bt debit card.

Another month of asking for the DD form, another nastygram from Pipex,
but now their payment line seems to close much earlier so it was
impossible for me to get hold of them. Email customer services seemed
slightly more responsive when I made a formal complaint. But still no
DD form, and while I was trying to sort it out with customer services,
they disconnected my phone! Morons.

I rang on my mobile (costing a fortune no doubt) queued for ages and
managed to pay, but it seems that they wil not reconnect my phone
until they get a DD form back. Since nearly 2 months of phone calls
and emails has not persuaded them to even send me a DD form, I don't
see how I am ever going to get my phoneline back.

The annoying thing is that Pipex simply refuse to accept that any of
thsi is in any way their fault.

Any advice what I can do? Ideally I would like to switch providers
because I don't need any more of this lousy service. I would also like
to get back the money I have spent in phone calls to get Pipex to fix
things whizh are their own fault.

On 19 Jun, 21:58, dom.k.bl...@googlemail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> After several relatively problem free years with Pipex broadband, last
> October I switched to a capped broadband plus anytime phone. Since
> then everything has gone horribly wrong.
>
> First I started seeing random amounts for additional bandwidth on my
> bills. Pipex didn't reply to my emails so I had to phone, and
> eventually they admitted these bills were actually for calls. And also
> that they were quite large amounts because the salesman had lied to
> me, I was only on an evenings and weekends tariff.
>
> It took 6 months of calls and emails to get confirmation that I was on
> the correct tariff and to get proper itemised bills. Even today I
> don't have itemised bills for the first six months.
>
> But I have now seen that the calls I have had to make to Pipex to get
> the billing sorted out were being significantly overcharged and so I
> have probably paid about 60 quid just to get Pipex to send me proper
> bills.
>
> Then my credit card expired. Pipex don't let you update your card
> details online so I had to phone again. I was told it was cheaper to
> pay by direct debit, but the promised forms never turned up. Nastygram
> from credit control when the payment went overdue, so I had to call
> again and pay bt debit card.
>
> Another month of asking for the DD form, another nastygram from Pipex,
> but now their payment line seems to close much earlier so it was
> impossible for me to get hold of them. Email customer services seemed
> slightly more responsive when I made a formal complaint. But still no
> DD form, and while I was trying to sort it out with customer services,
> they disconnected my phone! Morons.
>
> I rang on my mobile (costing a fortune no doubt) queued for ages and
> managed to pay, but it seems that they wil not reconnect my phone
> until they get a DD form back. Since nearly 2 months of phone calls
> and emails has not persuaded them to even send me a DD form, I don't
> see how I am ever going to get my phoneline back.
>
> The annoying thing is that Pipex simply refuse to accept that any of
> thsi is in any way their fault.
>
> Any advice what I can do? Ideally I would like to switch providers
> because I don't need any more of this lousy service. I would also like
> to get back the money I have spent in phone calls to get Pipex to fix
> things whizh are their own fault.

Well you need to carry on trying to get this sorted out by calling
them. Use this number:  0114 2965198, with your free calls and talk to
them about your billing. Be very calm and say the you completely
understand what they are saying and be very nice about, it then if
they don't sort it out, ask for a manager. In these situation getting
angry and being rude never seems to help and persistent is the only
solution. So make a few more calls about the billing.

Also find out the formal complaints procedure and make a formal
complaint about what has happened, and how they have responded to the
problems. Show your disappointment and make it clear what you want to
happen. Mention the cost of calls that you have made and other costs
that you have incurred, and send it off to Plusnet, get a certificate
of postage as well, to prove that you sent it or maybe recorded
delivery.

Then wait for a few weeks for a response, in the unlikely event that
you do actually get one, I say that because its very unlikely that
will anyone read it. Reply appropriately if you do, or ring them up
and find out about the ADR scheme and basically head in the direction
of Ofcom, all the information can be found here:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/landline/company/billing/no_adr/

Next you will need to make contact with the ADR Middleman and make you
complaint there. All the guidance that you need is on Ofcom's site.

The quickest way to get away from plusnet is by getting them to admit
the problems. Have your information ready with them. You are going to
spent some hours calling them, so use the number that I mentioned
before.

Good Luck, you're going to need it and keep at it, be persistent, it
will be solved in the end.

On 19 Jun, 21:58, dom.k.bl...@googlemail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> After several relatively problem free years with Pipex broadband, last
> October I switched to a capped broadband plus anytime phone. Since
> then everything has gone horribly wrong.
>
> First I started seeing random amounts for additional bandwidth on my
> bills. Pipex didn't reply to my emails so I had to phone, and
> eventually they admitted these bills were actually for calls. And also
> that they were quite large amounts because the salesman had lied to
> me, I was only on an evenings and weekends tariff.
>
> It took 6 months of calls and emails to get confirmation that I was on
> the correct tariff and to get proper itemised bills. Even today I
> don't have itemised bills for the first six months.
>
> But I have now seen that the calls I have had to make to Pipex to get
> the billing sorted out were being significantly overcharged and so I
> have probably paid about 60 quid just to get Pipex to send me proper
> bills.
>
> Then my credit card expired. Pipex don't let you update your card
> details online so I had to phone again. I was told it was cheaper to
> pay by direct debit, but the promised forms never turned up. Nastygram
> from credit control when the payment went overdue, so I had to call
> again and pay bt debit card.
>
> Another month of asking for the DD form, another nastygram from Pipex,
> but now their payment line seems to close much earlier so it was
> impossible for me to get hold of them. Email customer services seemed
> slightly more responsive when I made a formal complaint. But still no
> DD form, and while I was trying to sort it out with customer services,
> they disconnected my phone! Morons.
>
> I rang on my mobile (costing a fortune no doubt) queued for ages and
> managed to pay, but it seems that they wil not reconnect my phone
> until they get a DD form back. Since nearly 2 months of phone calls
> and emails has not persuaded them to even send me a DD form, I don't
> see how I am ever going to get my phoneline back.
>
> The annoying thing is that Pipex simply refuse to accept that any of
> thsi is in any way their fault.
>
> Any advice what I can do? Ideally I would like to switch providers
> because I don't need any more of this lousy service. I would also like
> to get back the money I have spent in phone calls to get Pipex to fix
> things whizh are their own fault.

Well you need to carry on trying to get this sorted out by calling
them. Use this number:  0114 2965198, with your free calls and talk to
them about your billing. Be very calm and say the you completely
understand what they are saying and be very nice about, it then if
they don't sort it out, ask for a manager. In these situation getting
angry and being rude never seems to help and persistent is the only
solution. So make a few more calls about the billing.

Also find out the formal complaints procedure and make a formal
complaint about what has happened, and how they have responded to the
problems. Show your disappointment and make it clear what you want to
happen. Mention the cost of calls that you have made and other costs
that you have incurred, and send it off to Plusnet, get a certificate
of postage as well, to prove that you sent it or maybe recorded
delivery.

Then wait for a few weeks for a response, in the unlikely event that
you do actually get one, I say that because its very unlikely that
will anyone read it. Reply appropriately if you do, or ring them up
and find out about the ADR scheme and basically head in the direction
of Ofcom, all the information can be found here:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/landline/company/billing/no_adr/

Next you will need to make contact with the ADR Middleman and make you
complaint there. All the guidance that you need is on Ofcom's site.

The quickest way to get away from plusnet is by getting them to admit
the problems. Have your information ready with them. You are going to
spent some hours calling them, so use the number that I mentioned
before.

Good Luck, you're going to need it and keep at it, be persistent, it
will be solved in the end.

I have made a mistake, I mis-read the ISP somehow, stupid I know.

The only difference is that you need to find out Pipex's formal
complaint procedure and you need to send it there, and you need to
find out about Pipex's ADR scheme.

As for the number I can't find a number because they seem to be part
of Tiscali, however I found this:

0161 4515100 (Was closed at the time of testing, they are open until
5pm)

Also found this but not sure its what you need.
0161 4515100

If you post the number you used to call them might be able to get a
better number for you.

I have made a mistake, I mis-read the ISP somehow, stupid I know.

The only difference is that you need to find out Pipex's formal
complaint procedure and you need to send it there, and you need to
find out about Pipex's ADR scheme.

As for the number I can't find a number because they seem to be part
of Tiscali, however I found this:

0161 4515100 (Was closed at the time of testing, they are open until
5pm)

Also found this but not sure its what you need.
0161 4515100

If you post the number you used to call them might be able to get a
better number for you.

dom.k.black@googlemail.com wrote:

> First I started seeing random amounts ...... on my bills.

Sounds like VM !

Graham

dom.k.black@googlemail.com wrote:

> Any advice what I can do?

Get a decent ISP !

Graham

> Get a decent ISP !
>
> Graham

Thats what he is trying to do, he just wants to get some of the cash
they have taken off him back, he asked for advice on how to do this.

In article ,
	dom.k.black@googlemail.com writes:
> Hi,
> 
> After several relatively problem free years with Pipex broadband, last
> October I switched to a capped broadband plus anytime phone. Since
> then everything has gone horribly wrong.
> 
> First I started seeing random amounts for additional bandwidth on my
> bills. Pipex didn't reply to my emails so I had to phone, and
> eventually they admitted these bills were actually for calls. And also
> that they were quite large amounts because the salesman had lied to
> me, I was only on an evenings and weekends tariff.
....
> they disconnected my phone! Morons.
...
> The annoying thing is that Pipex simply refuse to accept that any of
> thsi is in any way their fault.
> 
> Any advice what I can do? Ideally I would like to switch providers
> because I don't need any more of this lousy service. I would also like
> to get back the money I have spent in phone calls to get Pipex to fix
> things whizh are their own fault.

Don't do anything by phone or email. Large companies will only waste
your time with people whose only training is in how to fob customers
off.

Discover the company's registered address using the WebCHeck service at
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/ and write them a letter claiming a
specific and reasonable amount of compensation for your time, phone
calls and excess payments necessarily incurred as a result of their
breach of contract.  Don't forget to include the costs of the letter
itself.  Tell them a date to pay it by and tell them you will issue a
county court claim against them unless they pay. Send it recorded,
"signed for" by Royal Mail and check it has been delivered.

If they don't pay, sue them using
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm
Most of it can be done on-line. At each stage don't forget to add in
sensible costs of taking further action, which you're obliged to keep to
a minimum.

For trivial amounts, a large company will almost certainly settle before
the hearing (which would be in _your_ local court). Some will attempt to
call your bluff, contest it, going through all the stages and leaving it
until the very last moment when they'd physically have to appear in
court, before they give in and pay up.

-- 
Tim Clark

naza wrote:

>  > Get a decent ISP !
> >
> > Graham
>
> Thats what he is trying to do, he just wants to get some of the cash
> they have taken off him back, he asked for advice on how to do this.

Trading Standards, Ofcom ?

Graham

On 20 Jun, 13:24, "Tim Clark"  wrote:
> In article ,
>         dom.k.bl...@googlemail.com writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > After several relatively problem free years with Pipex broadband, last
> > October I switched to a capped broadband plus anytime phone. Since
> > then everything has gone horribly wrong.
>
> > First I started seeing random amounts for additional bandwidth on my
> > bills. Pipex didn't reply to my emails so I had to phone, and
> > eventually they admitted these bills were actually for calls. And also
> > that they were quite large amounts because the salesman had lied to
> > me, I was only on an evenings and weekends tariff.
> ....
> > they disconnected my phone! Morons.
> ...
> > The annoying thing is that Pipex simply refuse to accept that any of
> > thsi is in any way their fault.
>
> > Any advice what I can do? Ideally I would like to switch providers
> > because I don't need any more of this lousy service. I would also like
> > to get back the money I have spent in phone calls to get Pipex to fix
> > things whizh are their own fault.
>
> Don't do anything by phone or email. Large companies will only waste
> your time with people whose only training is in how to fob customers
> off.
>
> Discover the company's registered address using the WebCHeck service athttp://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/and write them a letter claiming a
> specific and reasonable amount of compensation for your time, phone
> calls and excess payments necessarily incurred as a result of their
> breach of contract.  Don't forget to include the costs of the letter
> itself.  Tell them a date to pay it by and tell them you will issue a
> county court claim against them unless they pay. Send it recorded,
> "signed for" by Royal Mail and check it has been delivered.
>
> If they don't pay, sue them usinghttp://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm
> Most of it can be done on-line. At each stage don't forget to add in
> sensible costs of taking further action, which you're obliged to keep to
> a minimum.
>
> For trivial amounts, a large company will almost certainly settle before
> the hearing (which would be in _your_ local court). Some will attempt to
> call your bluff, contest it, going through all the stages and leaving it
> until the very last moment when they'd physically have to appear in
> court, before they give in and pay up.
>
> --
> Tim Clark- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for all the advice here. At this stage, I think the advice in
this post appeals to me the most. I am not someone who goes around
looking for any excuse to try it on with a compensation claim, but
this has really annoyed me.

They were so quick to disconnect my phone, but when it comes to
reconnecting it, the promised 48 hour maximum delay has been and gone.
God knows when it will be connected again.

OFCOM don't seem to offer much hands on help for individual
complaints, but I will certainly report this to them. Pipex have twice
failed to give me details of their ADR scheme, or their formal
complaint procedure, so I think I will put in a claim for reasonable
compensation then take court action to try to secure it.

> But I have now seen that the calls I have had to make to Pipex to get
> the billing sorted out were being significantly overcharged and so I
> have probably paid about 60 quid just to get Pipex to send me proper
> bills.

I'd be tempted to do a Subject Access request under the terms of the 
Data Protection Act (£10 max) and specifically tell them you want all 
data relating to phone bills from (date to date), as well as 
everything they hold in email, memo, database etc. format.

IIRC you can also get written records now under the DPA, not just 
electronically held data.

On 20 Jun, 22:47, Colin Wilson
 wrote:
> > But I have now seen that the calls I have had to make to Pipex to get
> > the billing sorted out were being significantly overcharged and so I
> > have probably paid about 60 quid just to get Pipex to send me proper
> > bills.
>
> I'd be tempted to do a Subject Access request under the terms of the
> Data Protection Act (£10 max) and specifically tell them you want all
> data relating to phone bills from (date to date), as well as
> everything they hold in email, memo, database etc. format.
>
> IIRC you can also get written records now under the DPA, not just
> electronically held data.

That might be interesting, because I have started to suspect that they
have actually lost that data. They seem very reluctant to give me the
information. The amount of money involved is a few tens of pounds, so
I doubt they are trying to defraud me.

What happens if they have lost the data?

> That might be interesting, because I have started to suspect that they
> have actually lost that data. They seem very reluctant to give me the
> information. The amount of money involved is a few tens of pounds, so
> I doubt they are trying to defraud me.
> What happens if they have lost the data?

I'm pretty sure they need to keep any financial information that may 
have VAT implications (telephony is a service, and therefore subject 
to VAT) for a minimum of 5 years. I can't find a cite for this at the 
moment, but it's what we work to in our place...

Ahh, here we go, it's actually 6 years...

IM-2: Record Retention and Disposal (Acrobat PDF, 92KB)

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?
contentID=HMCE_CL_001553

They have a problem if they claim to have "lost" them, and i'd be 
telling them straight that you're calling in the HMRC to investigate 
financial irregularities, closely followed by the Information 
Commissioner for failure in their duty of care to keep accurate 
records.

By the same token, if you refused to pay any bills for which they 
claim to have "lost" the data, they can't prove you owe it.

Perhaps another avenue to try would be to use the Companies House 
website to find the *HOME ADDRESS* of the Directors (IIRC it costs £2 
for this), and send them recorded delivery letters there. You may also 
be able to instigate a Small Claims action against the company, naming 
them personally as defendants :-p

They were looking to remove this facility, i'm not sure whether it's 
still available though :-}

Are you definitely still under the Pipex umbrella ? - the reason for 
asking is Pipex was sold off to Tiscali, more info on that on 
wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipex_Communications

dom.k.black@googlemail.com wrote:
> On 20 Jun, 22:47, Colin Wilson
>  wrote:
>>> But I have now seen that the calls I have had to make to Pipex to get
>>> the billing sorted out were being significantly overcharged and so I
>>> have probably paid about 60 quid just to get Pipex to send me proper
>>> bills.
>> I'd be tempted to do a Subject Access request under the terms of the
>> Data Protection Act (£10 max) and specifically tell them you want all
>> data relating to phone bills from (date to date), as well as
>> everything they hold in email, memo, database etc. format.
>>
>> IIRC you can also get written records now under the DPA, not just
>> electronically held data.
> 
> That might be interesting, because I have started to suspect that they
> have actually lost that data. They seem very reluctant to give me the
> information. The amount of money involved is a few tens of pounds, so
> I doubt they are trying to defraud me.
> 
> What happens if they have lost the data?

It will probably be found on a laptop on a train. Sadly being of no 
media interest, someone will wipe it and nick the laptop and/or sell it 
on ebay.

Colin Wilson wrote:

> > But I have now seen that the calls I have had to make to Pipex to get
> > the billing sorted out were being significantly overcharged and so I
> > have probably paid about 60 quid just to get Pipex to send me proper
> > bills.
>
> I'd be tempted to do a Subject Access request under the terms of the
> Data Protection Act (£10 max) and specifically tell them you want all
> data relating to phone bills from (date to date), as well as
> everything they hold in email, memo, database etc. format.
>
> IIRC you can also get written records now under the DPA, not just
> electronically held data.

This piqued my curiosoty, so ....

http://www.google.com/search?&rls=en&q=Subject+Access+request

The first hit is interesting

Graham