My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the last 6 
months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between 3800 & 
just managed 4200 this morning. Could uploading a small amount of data 
(about 22kb) every 10 seconds 24/7 have caused or be responsible for the 
profile remaining low?. Would it help to shut the router down overnight as I 
understand that is when sync tests take place.

TIA Mick

Mike wrote:

> My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the last 6
> months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between 3800 &
> just managed 4200 this morning. Could uploading a small amount of data
> (about 22kb) every 10 seconds 24/7 have caused or be responsible for the
> profile remaining low?. Would it help to shut the router down overnight as I
> understand that is when sync tests take place.

What provider ? LLU or not ?

Graaham

"Mike" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message 
news:5LednYzZHvdzNsXVnZ2dnUVZ8sPinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the last 6 
> months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between 3800 
> & just managed 4200 this morning. Could uploading a small amount of data 
> (about 22kb) every 10 seconds 24/7 have caused or be responsible for the 
> profile remaining low?. Would it help to shut the router down overnight as 
> I understand that is when sync tests take place.

My connection has done the same ... at about the same date.
Went from the usual 6.5Mb to 4Mb.
I've sent Demon a couple of emails, but their only response is for me to 
call their inbred cretin in "technical support".

"Eeyore"  wrote in message 
news:4858B7FB.22F884E0@hotmail.com...
>
>
> Mike wrote:
>
>> My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the last 6
>> months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between 
>> 3800 &
>> just managed 4200 this morning. Could uploading a small amount of data
>> (about 22kb) every 10 seconds 24/7 have caused or be responsible for the
>> profile remaining low?. Would it help to shut the router down overnight 
>> as I
>> understand that is when sync tests take place.
>
> What provider ? LLU or not ?
>
> Graaham
>
>
Sorry for lack of info - no LLU - Plusnet, who responded quickly and say it 
should go up in a few days or if it is stuck then get back to them. The 
question I was interested in was if the data upload could be having an 
affect as the problem appeared round about the same time I tried uploading 
every 10 seconds. . If it is I could knock it down to daytime only or 
increase the periods to 2 minutes. The data currently is 20kb every 20 secs 
and 2 other lots of data every 120 secs all to different address's.

Mick

> > My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the last
> > 6
> > months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between
> > 3800
> > & just managed 4200 this morning.

My experience has been that a short burst of noise can severely
degrade your sync speed.I look at my ADSL spectrum display
and it is as it's always been. It can take the best part of a week
before whatever algorithm they use sees that the noise has gone,
and sync spped suddenly jumps up to its former value, often a bit
higher, stays like that for a while, then drops back one step
to as you were originally, having found its preferred SNR figure.
Suspected, but not fully proven, if I swap in a different, spare,
ADSL modem, it sees a different box amy end, so forcing
a retrain. Then put the original box back, forcing another retrain,
and the sync speed is much better, but still takes a little while
before you get your highest sync speed back.
There are different makes of DSLAM so I can't say if they all
act the same, and their algorithms are a mystery, why does
it take so long to recover after a noise burst, yet it is quick
to respond to the burst.?

wrote in message 
news:pU36k.24460$GF6.9737@newsfe27.ams2...
>> > My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the last
>> > 6
>> > months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between
>> > 3800
>> > & just managed 4200 this morning.
>
> My experience has been that a short burst of noise can severely
> degrade your sync speed.I look at my ADSL spectrum display
> and it is as it's always been. It can take the best part of a week
> before whatever algorithm they use sees that the noise has gone,
> and sync spped suddenly jumps up to its former value, often a bit
> higher, stays like that for a while, then drops back one step
> to as you were originally, having found its preferred SNR figure.
> Suspected, but not fully proven, if I swap in a different, spare,
> ADSL modem, it sees a different box amy end, so forcing
> a retrain. Then put the original box back, forcing another retrain,
> and the sync speed is much better, but still takes a little while
> before you get your highest sync speed back.
> There are different makes of DSLAM so I can't say if they all
> act the same, and their algorithms are a mystery, why does
> it take so long to recover after a noise burst, yet it is quick
> to respond to the burst.?
>
I've got a spare modem/router so if it doesn't go up by the weekend I'll try 
swapping them and see what happens - thanks for that.

Mick

Mike wrote:

> "Eeyore"  wrote
> >
> >> My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the last 6
> >> months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between
> >> 3800 &
> >> just managed 4200 this morning. Could uploading a small amount of data
> >> (about 22kb) every 10 seconds 24/7 have caused or be responsible for the
> >> profile remaining low?. Would it help to shut the router down overnight
> >> as I understand that is when sync tests take place.
> >
> > What provider ? LLU or not ?
>
>
> Sorry for lack of info - no LLU - Plusnet, who responded quickly and say it
> should go up in a few days or if it is stuck then get back to them. The
> question I was interested in was if the data upload could be having an
> affect as the problem appeared round about the same time I tried uploading
> every 10 seconds.

Not remotely likely AFAIK.


> . If it is I could knock it down to daytime only or
> increase the periods to 2 minutes. The data currently is 20kb every 20 secs
> and 2 other lots of data every 120 secs all to different address's.

That's what it's supposed to be able to do. Hah, it's not P2P traffic is it ?

Graham

"Gizmo." wrote:

> "Mike" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote
>
> > My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the last 6
> > months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between 3800
> > & just managed 4200 this morning. Could uploading a small amount of data
> > (about 22kb) every 10 seconds 24/7 have caused or be responsible for the
> > profile remaining low?. Would it help to shut the router down overnight as
> > I understand that is when sync tests take place.
>
> My connection has done the same ... at about the same date.
> Went from the usual 6.5Mb to 4Mb.
> I've sent Demon a couple of emails, but their only response is for me to
> call their inbred cretin in "technical support".

New ISP time ! Demon went to hell ages back.

Graham

"Eeyore"  wrote in message 
news:4858EA83.529C3049@hotmail.com...
>
>
> "Gizmo." wrote:
>
>> "Mike" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote
>>
>> > My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the last 
>> > 6
>> > months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between 
>> > 3800
>> > & just managed 4200 this morning. Could uploading a small amount of 
>> > data
>> > (about 22kb) every 10 seconds 24/7 have caused or be responsible for 
>> > the
>> > profile remaining low?. Would it help to shut the router down overnight 
>> > as
>> > I understand that is when sync tests take place.
>>
>> My connection has done the same ... at about the same date.
>> Went from the usual 6.5Mb to 4Mb.
>> I've sent Demon a couple of emails, but their only response is for me to
>> call their inbred cretin in "technical support".
>
> New ISP time ! Demon went to hell ages back.

Agreed. It's one of those jobs I "keep meaning to do"    :o/

Demon went down the shitter when they moved tech support from Southend to 
India.

"Gizmo."  wrote in message 
news:eH66k.15997$8H5.13958@newsfe10.ams2...
>
> "Eeyore"  wrote in message 
> news:4858EA83.529C3049@hotmail.com...
>>
>>
>> "Gizmo." wrote:
>>
>>> "Mike" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote
>>>
>>> > My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the 
>>> > last 6
>>> > months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between 
>>> > 3800
>>> > & just managed 4200 this morning. Could uploading a small amount of 
>>> > data
>>> > (about 22kb) every 10 seconds 24/7 have caused or be responsible for 
>>> > the
>>> > profile remaining low?. Would it help to shut the router down 
>>> > overnight as
>>> > I understand that is when sync tests take place.
>>>
>>> My connection has done the same ... at about the same date.
>>> Went from the usual 6.5Mb to 4Mb.
>>> I've sent Demon a couple of emails, but their only response is for me to
>>> call their inbred cretin in "technical support".
>>
>> New ISP time ! Demon went to hell ages back.
>
> Agreed. It's one of those jobs I "keep meaning to do"    :o/
>
> Demon went down the shitter when they moved tech support from Southend to 
> India.
>
Even though I have the problem just now I cannot fault Plusnet for their 
tech support - I left NTL/Virgin after being with them 8 years due to 
support with extremely low speeds (quite often a low as a few hundred kbps) 
and have had extremely quick responses to any queeries. They even got me 
migrated in about 4 days just coming up to Christams eve when I was having 
trouble migrating to the Post office broadband who had a software problem 
with their ordering system and were going to take at least 7 weeks with no 
promises even then. I have only had a couple of dropped connections in the 6 
months and no drop in speed until now so as long as the support stays in the 
UK then I will be staying with Plusnet.

Mick

"Eeyore"  wrote in message 
news:4858EA47.D87E2547@hotmail.com...
>
>
> Mike wrote:
>
>> "Eeyore"  wrote
>> >
>> >> My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the 
>> >> last 6
>> >> months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between
>> >> 3800 &
>> >> just managed 4200 this morning. Could uploading a small amount of data
>> >> (about 22kb) every 10 seconds 24/7 have caused or be responsible for 
>> >> the
>> >> profile remaining low?. Would it help to shut the router down 
>> >> overnight
>> >> as I understand that is when sync tests take place.
>> >
>> > What provider ? LLU or not ?
>>
>>
>> Sorry for lack of info - no LLU - Plusnet, who responded quickly and say 
>> it
>> should go up in a few days or if it is stuck then get back to them. The
>> question I was interested in was if the data upload could be having an
>> affect as the problem appeared round about the same time I tried 
>> uploading
>> every 10 seconds.
>
> Not remotely likely AFAIK.
>
>
>> . If it is I could knock it down to daytime only or
>> increase the periods to 2 minutes. The data currently is 20kb every 20 
>> secs
>> and 2 other lots of data every 120 secs all to different address's.
>
> That's what it's supposed to be able to do. Hah, it's not P2P traffic is 
> it ?
>
> Graham
>
No P2P Graham, just ais ships data for plotting the local ferries and a 
webcam set to watch the local area.

Mick

Gizmo. wrote:
> "Eeyore"  wrote in message
> news:4858EA83.529C3049@hotmail.com...
>>
>>
>> "Gizmo." wrote:
>>> I've sent Demon a couple of emails, but their only response is for
>>> me to call their inbred cretin in "technical support".
>>
>> New ISP time ! Demon went to hell ages back.
>
> Agreed. It's one of those jobs I "keep meaning to do"    :o/
>
> Demon went down the shitter when they moved tech support from
> Southend to India.

The MAC issuing desk is still in the UK, and a model of efficiency.  You get 
a code within a few minutes.  Its a shame the rest of their helpdesks are 
rubbish as one wouldn't then need the MAC one.


- Nigel (recently ex Demon).



-- 
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

In message <29mdnQqLurz4UcXVnZ2dnUVZ8v3inZ2d@posted.plusnet>, Mike 
<reply@newsgroup.please> writes
>
> wrote in message
>news:pU36k.24460$GF6.9737@newsfe27.ams2...
>>> > My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For the last
>>> > 6
>>> > months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests. Now get between
>>> > 3800
>>> > & just managed 4200 this morning.
>>
>> My experience has been that a short burst of noise can severely
>> degrade your sync speed.I look at my ADSL spectrum display
>> and it is as it's always been. It can take the best part of a week
>> before whatever algorithm they use sees that the noise has gone,
>> and sync spped suddenly jumps up to its former value, often a bit
>> higher, stays like that for a while, then drops back one step
>> to as you were originally, having found its preferred SNR figure.
>> Suspected, but not fully proven, if I swap in a different, spare,
>> ADSL modem, it sees a different box amy end, so forcing
>> a retrain. Then put the original box back, forcing another retrain,
>> and the sync speed is much better, but still takes a little while
>> before you get your highest sync speed back.
>> There are different makes of DSLAM so I can't say if they all
>> act the same, and their algorithms are a mystery, why does
>> it take so long to recover after a noise burst, yet it is quick
>> to respond to the burst.?
>>
>I've got a spare modem/router so if it doesn't go up by the weekend I'll try
>swapping them and see what happens - thanks for that.
>
>Mick
>
>
Mike,

AIUI the DSLAM adaptive system takes a series of line drops (10 inside 
one hour period I have heard) as symptomatic of a noisy line, and 
increases the target SNR from the basic 6dB to 15dB. This results in a 
significant reduction in sync speed.

The slow recovery (requiring stable periods of a week or more) for a SNR 
reduction of 3dB is a (presumably) deliberate attempt to ensure that 
lines subject to intermittent noise do not yo-yo. Someone (BT?) having 
decided that slower but stable is preferable (i.e produces fewer support 
calls) to fast but erratic.

If you check your router stats you should see that the SNR is sitting at 
(probably) 15dB. If it is then something (a longish period of noise) 
caused your router to retrain multiple times over a short period, and 
the DSLAM reacted - I had this happen with a mains glitch which caused 
my router to misbehave.

If its sitting at 6db, then you have had a change in the line quality.

When the data transfer started, did this coincide with a new device 
(webcam?) A dodgy (electrically noisy but working) device PSU can 
generate incremental noise at ADSL frequencies.

Regards.

-- 
Peter R Cook

Eeyore wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>
>> "Eeyore"  wrote
>>>
>>>> My profile was reduced from 7000 to 4000 on the 11th June. For
>>>> the last 6 months I have always got between 6400 &7200 on tests.
>>>> Now get between 3800 &
>>>> just managed 4200 this morning. Could uploading a small amount
>>>> of data (about 22kb) every 10 seconds 24/7 have caused or be
>>>> responsible for the profile remaining low?. Would it help to
>>>> shut the router down overnight as I understand that is when sync
>>>> tests take place.
>>>
>>> What provider ? LLU or not ?
>>
>>
>> Sorry for lack of info - no LLU - Plusnet, who responded quickly
>> and say it should go up in a few days or if it is stuck then get
>> back to them. The question I was interested in was if the data
>> upload could be having an affect as the problem appeared round
>> about the same time I tried uploading every 10 seconds.
>
> Not remotely likely AFAIK.
>
>
>> . If it is I could knock it down to daytime only or
>> increase the periods to 2 minutes. The data currently is 20kb
>> every 20 secs and 2 other lots of data every 120 secs all to
>> different address's.
>
> That's what it's supposed to be able to do. Hah, it's not P2P
> traffic is it ?
>
> Graham

Data burst like that I don't think so............

P2P is a continual upload & download...

I replied to Plusnet that there was no change in the speed and received the 
following within 30 minutes or so.

START
We are not showing an increase in the profile rate of your line, however it 
can sometimes take a disconnect of the broadband to jog it into action. If 
your connection rate has not gone up by tomorrow morning please let us know 
and we'll raise it to BT for a manual change.

Circuit Sync Status : Circuit In Sync
Mux Port Status : In Service     Upstream Link Info  Loop Loss Loop Loss Add 
Text SNR Margin Errored Seconds HecErrors Cell Count Speed
      0.5   24 0 0 4700 448
   Downstream Link Info  Loop Loss Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin 
ErroredSeconds HecErrors CellCount Speed
      1   14 0 0 26236 8096
   DSL Max Data   BIP Interface Data  Current line rate Line rate change 
timestamp Maximum Stable Rate Recalcuated ProfileTimestamp Maximum Stable 
Rate
      4000 2008-06-11T12:09:05 N 2006-12-05T04:55:11 7392
   Fault Threshold Rate Interleaving Flag ServiceOption ServiceOption Status 
ServiceOption Update Timestamp
      5913 A 1

END

Anybody have any idea how long BT take once it is raised with them? Do they 
normally take hours or days

Mick

"Mike" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message 
news:U4adnT2vNuU4r8TVnZ2dnUVZ8vudnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>I replied to Plusnet that there was no change in the speed and received the 
>following within 30 minutes or so.
>
> START
> We are not showing an increase in the profile rate of your line, however 
> it can sometimes take a disconnect of the broadband to jog it into action. 
> If your connection rate has not gone up by tomorrow morning please let us 
> know and we'll raise it to BT for a manual change.
>
> Circuit Sync Status : Circuit In Sync
> Mux Port Status : In Service     Upstream Link Info  Loop Loss Loop Loss 
> Add Text SNR Margin Errored Seconds HecErrors Cell Count Speed
>      0.5   24 0 0 4700 448
>   Downstream Link Info  Loop Loss Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin 
> ErroredSeconds HecErrors CellCount Speed
>      1   14 0 0 26236 8096
>   DSL Max Data   BIP Interface Data  Current line rate Line rate change 
> timestamp Maximum Stable Rate Recalcuated ProfileTimestamp Maximum Stable 
> Rate
>      4000 2008-06-11T12:09:05 N 2006-12-05T04:55:11 7392
>   Fault Threshold Rate Interleaving Flag ServiceOption ServiceOption 
> Status ServiceOption Update Timestamp
>      5913 A 1
>
> END
>
> Anybody have any idea how long BT take once it is raised with them? Do 
> they normally take hours or days
>
> Mick

I've got a similar thing going with Plusnet right now. My speed (long line) 
used to be 2 to 3.5 Meg but has dropped to - and stuck at - 1.5 to 2 Meg.
Over the last couple of days they've been thoroughly investigating and have 
now referred the problem to BT (expected update tomorrow morning).
They've been very good with feedback so far.
Keeping fingers crossed.

George

Mike wrote:

> I replied to Plusnet that there was no change in the speed and received the
> following within 30 minutes or so.
>
> START
> We are not showing an increase in the profile rate of your line, however it
> can sometimes take a disconnect of the broadband to jog it into action. If
> your connection rate has not gone up by tomorrow morning please let us know
> and we'll raise it to BT for a manual change.

Yes. Sometime an actual arse kick does the trick. They're not telling you
bollocks. RADIUS can only do so much it seems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RADIUS

Graham

Eeyore wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>
>> I replied to Plusnet that there was no change in the speed and
>> received the following within 30 minutes or so.
>>
>> START
>> We are not showing an increase in the profile rate of your line,
>> however it can sometimes take a disconnect of the broadband to jog
>> it into action. If your connection rate has not gone up by
>> tomorrow morning please let us know and we'll raise it to BT for a
>> manual change.
>
> Yes. Sometime an actual arse kick does the trick. They're not
> telling you bollocks. RADIUS can only do so much it seems.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RADIUS
>
> Graham

Don't forget RAMBO which can have it's own little quirks...

kraftee wrote:

> Eeyore wrote:
> > Mike wrote:
> >
> >> I replied to Plusnet that there was no change in the speed and
> >> received the following within 30 minutes or so.
> >>
> >> START
> >> We are not showing an increase in the profile rate of your line,
> >> however it can sometimes take a disconnect of the broadband to jog
> >> it into action. If your connection rate has not gone up by
> >> tomorrow morning please let us know and we'll raise it to BT for a
> >> manual change.
> >
> > Yes. Sometime an actual arse kick does the trick. They're not
> > telling you bollocks. RADIUS can only do so much it seems.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RADIUS
> >
> > Graham
>
> Don't forget RAMBO which can have it's own little quirks...

Why bother when you could call on Lara Croft ?

Graham

Peter R. Cook:
> Someone (BT?) having  decided that slower but stable is preferable
> (i.e produces fewer support calls) to fast but erratic.

YES. That's the problem. My understanding is that BT changed the way the DLM 
operates !
Can anyone confirm this ?

My BT1801HG is capable of 2.8Mb/s on 6dB SNR and 51dB att. ~95% of the time.
We get random noise spikes and even though the router works down to
2dB SNR, it does disconnect every 3 or 4 days, but almost always re connects
straightaway.
Previously it was possible to bring it back 'up to speed', whenever the SNR
got over the 6dB threshold, just by re training the DSL.

However, lately it won't, I even got my ISP - PlusNet to reset it back down 
to 6dB,
but it has since climbed up to 12dB and they REFUSE to do it again. They
said it should be left alone for at least five days, but it just doesn't
stay up for that long !

I am now stuck on synch of 1.8Mb/s, but actual download speed of 0.8Mbps.
Quite simply I am prevented from making the best use of my connection. It's
MY connection and I should be able to chose between slow and steady or fast
with drop outs, which happen anyway !
If my car would operate at 60% of it's capability, I could get it replaced 
or get my money back.

How can we get BT to listen ?
Otherwise the only thing I / we could do is switch to mobile broadband !
Thanks, regards,
Martin

Eeyore wrote:
> kraftee wrote:
>
>> Eeyore wrote:
>>> Mike wrote:
>>>
>>>> I replied to Plusnet that there was no change in the speed and
>>>> received the following within 30 minutes or so.
>>>>
>>>> START
>>>> We are not showing an increase in the profile rate of your line,
>>>> however it can sometimes take a disconnect of the broadband to
>>>> jog it into action. If your connection rate has not gone up by
>>>> tomorrow morning please let us know and we'll raise it to BT for
>>>> a manual change.
>>>
>>> Yes. Sometime an actual arse kick does the trick. They're not
>>> telling you bollocks. RADIUS can only do so much it seems.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RADIUS
>>>
>>> Graham
>>
>> Don't forget RAMBO which can have it's own little quirks...
>
> Why bother when you could call on Lara Croft ?
>
> Graham

Well RAMBO has one sticking point Lara has 2 at least ;-)

Martin² wrote:
> Peter R. Cook:
>> Someone (BT?) having  decided that slower but stable is preferable
>> (i.e produces fewer support calls) to fast but erratic.
>
> YES. That's the problem. My understanding is that BT changed the
> way the DLM operates !
> Can anyone confirm this ?
>
> My BT1801HG is capable of 2.8Mb/s on 6dB SNR and 51dB att. ~95% of
> the time. We get random noise spikes and even though the router
> works down to 2dB SNR, it does disconnect every 3 or 4 days, but
> almost always re connects straightaway.
> Previously it was possible to bring it back 'up to speed', whenever
> the SNR got over the 6dB threshold, just by re training the DSL.
>
> However, lately it won't, I even got my ISP - PlusNet to reset it
> back down to 6dB,
> but it has since climbed up to 12dB and they REFUSE to do it again.
> They said it should be left alone for at least five days, but it
> just doesn't stay up for that long !
>
> I am now stuck on synch of 1.8Mb/s, but actual download speed of
> 0.8Mbps. Quite simply I am prevented from making the best use of my
> connection. It's MY connection and I should be able to chose
> between slow and steady or fast with drop outs, which happen anyway
> ! If my car would operate at 60% of it's capability, I could get it
> replaced or get my money back.
>
> How can we get BT to listen ?
> Otherwise the only thing I / we could do is switch to mobile
> broadband ! Thanks, regards,
> Martin

Have you attempted to get your ISP to raise an engineering visit because if 
you are dropping with in days a APTS result should show errors so the 
engineer should go looking for the problem.  The reason I'm asking is that 
BTs kit will work to the most stable connection speed it can give you, 
automatically, so it's the drop outsevery few days which is the problem not 
BT screwing your speeds down.  Yes it should train back up after a few days 
but by that time, by your own words, it's dropped out again so it will not 
do so.  Find the cause of the drop outs find the cure for your low speed.

[snip]
>
> Have you attempted to get your ISP to raise an engineering visit because 
> if you are dropping with in days a APTS result should show errors so the 
> engineer should go looking for the problem.  The reason I'm asking is that 
> BTs kit will work to the most stable connection speed it can give you, 
> automatically, so it's the drop outsevery few days which is the problem 
> not BT screwing your speeds down.  Yes it should train back up after a few 
> days but by that time, by your own words, it's dropped out again so it 
> will not do so.  Find the cause of the drop outs find the cure for your 
> low speed.

Perhaps you should first change to a competent ISP ???

-- 
Graham J

Graham J wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> Have you attempted to get your ISP to raise an engineering visit
>> because if you are dropping with in days a APTS result should show
>> errors so the engineer should go looking for the problem.  The
>> reason I'm asking is that BTs kit will work to the most stable
>> connection speed it can give you, automatically, so it's the drop
>> outsevery few days which is the problem not BT screwing your
>> speeds down.  Yes it should train back up after a few days but by
>> that time, by your own words, it's dropped out again so it will
>> not do so.  Find the cause of the drop outs find the cure for your
>> low speed.
>
> Perhaps you should first change to a competent ISP ???

When it comes to the rub, all can be as bad as each other nowadays

>  Find the cause of the drop outs find the cure for your
> > low speed.

One short burst of noise from an untraceable source and
you are down to dialup speed for a week, or longer if
another burst appears.
Most would prefer an short burst of high error rate, which
error correction can handle, than long periods of slow
connection.
One thing though unproven, is that if you swap in a
different modem, if forces a (new box at the other end)
retrain, then swap the original router back in, forcing
another retrain. Sometimes works. Worth a try.

ato_zee@hotmail.com wrote:
>>  Find the cause of the drop outs find the cure for your
>>> low speed.
>
> One short burst of noise from an untraceable source and
> you are down to dialup speed for a week, or longer if
> another burst appears.
> Most would prefer an short burst of high error rate, which
> error correction can handle, than long periods of slow
> connection.

You'd be suprised how many wouldn't....

> One thing though unproven, is that if you swap in a
> different modem, if forces a (new box at the other end)
> retrain, then swap the original router back in, forcing
> another retrain. Sometimes works. Worth a try.

Anything is worth a try I've even known line tests to force a retrain in the 
past..  Problem is that a retrain can go either way..

Kraftee:
>Have you attempted to get your ISP to raise an engineering visit because if 
>you are dropping with in days a APTS result should show errors so the 
>engineer should go looking for the problem.  The reason I'm asking is that 
>BTs kit will work to the most stable connection speed it can give you, 
>automatically, so it's the drop outsevery few days which is the problem not 
>BT screwing your speeds down.  Yes it should train back up after a few days 
>but by that time, by your own words, it's dropped out again so it will not 
>do so.

>Find the cause of the drop outs find the cure for your low speed.
HOW ?????

Thanks for your reply.
This is an ongoing problem, since ADSLMax started.
We had periodic problems, sometime lasting days, sometimes weeks, whenever 
we asked for the line to be investigated, the line was 'within limits' and 
we were threatened with extortionate charges for BT visit.
As we could always eventually bring the connection up to ~2.5-2.8Mb/s at 
6db, we lived with it, but now we are STUCK at 1.6-1.8 Mb/s / 0.8Mb/s actual 
download and min 12dB SNR :-(.

Just had an email from PlusNet:
THIS LINE IS STABLE AND WITHIN ERROR/RETRAIN LIMITS FOR THE CHOSEN SERVICE 
OPTION (ILQ=A)
Fault Threshold Rate 921
If your speed drops below 921kbps then we can investigate this further !

I can't see that changing ISP would help, the problem is the c**p quality of 
BT 3.9km long line !
Apparently O2 / Be LLU is coming to our exchange soon, but would they do 
something about the line ?

The way I see it is like this:
BT claims their CAR will do 'up to' 80mph.
When you drive the car is misfires and repeatedly cuts out at 28mph.
When you complain, instead of fixing it, they limit the speed to 18mph !
Law says you should be able to get it fixed, replaced, or get your money 
back.
But BT is the only game in the country and you need a car....

Bring on WIMAX, LTE, whatever !
Regards,
Martin

> This is an ongoing problem, since ADSLMax started.

Buy a cheap ADSL only Draytek Vigor 2600, cheap
enough on eBay, and give it the long/difficult line
flash, this improved things for me, but it might not
for everyone, but either way the DSLAM will
be forced to use ADSL not ADSLmax since the
modem doesn't support ADSLmax. DSLAM's
seem to be backwards compatible to support
ADSL, otherwise we would have had to buy new
modems. Not sure if the 2600 had a wireless version,
I'm Cat5, with the 2600 next to the master socket.
I have an ADSL+ BT Voyager 240, but although
it's ADSL+ it syncs slower than the Draytek with long
line flash. Think I'm actually on ADSL+ 8Meg its just
that I'm forcing it to run ADSL, more stable and faster
in practice.

> I can't see that changing ISP would help, the problem is the c**p quality
> of
> BT 3.9km long line !
> Apparently O2 / Be LLU is coming to our exchange soon, but would they do
> something about the line ?

You will only get what your line supports,
that said the line might have a problem, bursts of
noise, water in the underground 200 pair, dry
joint, drop wire (if any) acting as an aerial,
local after the master socket problem.
Did once investigate a problem where the
drop wire rested on a sodium street light,
and had slid up against the ambient light
sensor. So every night there was a high noise
level most of the night, it never retrained to
a higher speed, but could be forced to, by
swapping ADSL modems, not that it was
much help, it was stll at dialup speed every
evening.
Don't know where the drop wire was
originally, council however recently
resited the street lamp and put in a
pedestrian crossing, so that may have
triggered the problem. Don't know how
you get that fixed if council says we don't
move street lamps, and BT hasn't another
convenient pole.

"Martin²" wrote:

> I can't see that changing ISP would help,

It did for me IDnet insisted BT 'do' something.

Graham

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:24:13 +0100, "Martin²"  wrote:

>This is an ongoing problem, since ADSLMax started.
>We had periodic problems, sometime lasting days, sometimes weeks, whenever 
>we asked for the line to be investigated, the line was 'within limits' and 
>we were threatened with extortionate charges for BT visit.
>As we could always eventually bring the connection up to ~2.5-2.8Mb/s at 
>6db, we lived with it, but now we are STUCK at 1.6-1.8 Mb/s / 0.8Mb/s actual 
>download and min 12dB SNR :-(.
>
>Just had an email from PlusNet:
>THIS LINE IS STABLE AND WITHIN ERROR/RETRAIN LIMITS FOR THE CHOSEN SERVICE 
>OPTION (ILQ=A)
>Fault Threshold Rate 921
>If your speed drops below 921kbps then we can investigate this further !
>
>I can't see that changing ISP would help, the problem is the c**p quality of 
>BT 3.9km long line !
>Apparently O2 / Be LLU is coming to our exchange soon, but would they do 
>something about the line ?

Similar problem to mine, had burst of noise due to dodgy mains supply
and router went into a funny state.  Happened about 0030 in the night.
Resynching continued for hours and eventually gave up. Router power
off/on brought back the synch ~1400 but at a 12db SNR. Normally
synched at ~2300 kbps.  (Just enough to get me a 2M profile. I am  a
long way from the exchange). 

ISP investigated and sent me the logs of the continual resynching and
said the line should go back to a 6db SNR. They also said that  BT
wouldn't look at setting the SNR back to 6db  as the "line was within
limits".  It didn't go back to 6db SNR after three months of stable
running (I fitted a small UPS to the supply to the router). It was
stuck at 12db. Several calls to the ISP resulted in the same answer -
it should go back to 6db by itself.  So I gave them (ISP and BT)
enough rope to hang themselves. I just lived with the slow speed for
three  months.

After the three months I asked ISP what they were going to do about
the failure to resync at 6db.  Passed to next level of support who
actually called me on my  landline! The problem was discussed and the
cause and reolution by UPS on the router deemed acceptable.

The ISP moved me to "some other equipment" where they "could alter the
line parameters" if necessary.   After this it resynched at around
2200kbps (which it did with BT at 6db SNR before the problem) but at a
9db SNR!   The only only difference I note is that the upstream synch
is now 736kbps.

I guess they moved me to some LLU equipment in the exchange.  I was
happy about this because if this move proved to cause other troubles I
could get a MAC and go elsewhere, even back to an ISP who used BT
stuff in the exchange.

Just staying on the BT stuff in the exchange with the 12db SNR and
changing to an ISP who used the BT stuff would  achieve nothing.  I
would still have been stuck at the 12db SNR.

However there have been no further problems so I stuck with the ISP
and I am happy, the line seems to be more stable than it ever was when
I was connected to the BT stuff. (Monitored with  Router Stats).
Though I dont know why that should be. Maybe because the target SNR is
9db.

For you, changing ISP and using LLU (or a different LLU)  might be an
option as it will get you moved to someone's else stuff in the
exchange. Though you will need an ISP that will take an interest in
resolving any problems you may have with your line.  I can't help you
on that one. Others here will have had experience with their ISPs
getting line problems sorted.

During my trouble I did look at moving to Be/O2 put when I tried their
broadband checker it said I couldn't have their broadband.  So I
called them up and apparantly I am too far from the exchange for
*their* broadband. Over 5km I think they said when I gave them my
postcode.

-- 
brightside S9

"brightside S9" <address@replyto_is_not.invalid> wrote in message 
news:nksm54dkv1hv4qco2g20bnokrppqenu9rk@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:24:13 +0100, "Martin²"  wrote:
>
>>This is an ongoing problem, since ADSLMax started.
>>We had periodic problems, sometime lasting days, sometimes weeks, whenever
>>we asked for the line to be investigated, the line was 'within limits' and
>>we were threatened with extortionate charges for BT visit.
>>As we could always eventually bring the connection up to ~2.5-2.8Mb/s at
>>6db, we lived with it, but now we are STUCK at 1.6-1.8 Mb/s / 0.8Mb/s 
>>actual
>>download and min 12dB SNR :-(.
>>
>>Just had an email from PlusNet:
>>THIS LINE IS STABLE AND WITHIN ERROR/RETRAIN LIMITS FOR THE CHOSEN SERVICE
>>OPTION (ILQ=A)
>>Fault Threshold Rate 921
>>If your speed drops below 921kbps then we can investigate this further !
>>
>>I can't see that changing ISP would help, the problem is the c**p quality 
>>of
>>BT 3.9km long line !
>>Apparently O2 / Be LLU is coming to our exchange soon, but would they do
>>something about the line ?
>
> Similar problem to mine, had burst of noise due to dodgy mains supply
> and router went into a funny state.  Happened about 0030 in the night.
> Resynching continued for hours and eventually gave up. Router power
> off/on brought back the synch ~1400 but at a 12db SNR. Normally
> synched at ~2300 kbps.  (Just enough to get me a 2M profile. I am  a
> long way from the exchange).
>
> ISP investigated and sent me the logs of the continual resynching and
> said the line should go back to a 6db SNR. They also said that  BT
> wouldn't look at setting the SNR back to 6db  as the "line was within
> limits".  It didn't go back to 6db SNR after three months of stable
> running (I fitted a small UPS to the supply to the router). It was
> stuck at 12db. Several calls to the ISP resulted in the same answer -
> it should go back to 6db by itself.  So I gave them (ISP and BT)
> enough rope to hang themselves. I just lived with the slow speed for
> three  months.
>
> After the three months I asked ISP what they were going to do about
> the failure to resync at 6db.  Passed to next level of support who
> actually called me on my  landline! The problem was discussed and the
> cause and reolution by UPS on the router deemed acceptable.
>
> The ISP moved me to "some other equipment" where they "could alter the
> line parameters" if necessary.   After this it resynched at around
> 2200kbps (which it did with BT at 6db SNR before the problem) but at a
> 9db SNR!   The only only difference I note is that the upstream synch
> is now 736kbps.
>
> I guess they moved me to some LLU equipment in the exchange.  I was
> happy about this because if this move proved to cause other troubles I
> could get a MAC and go elsewhere, even back to an ISP who used BT
> stuff in the exchange.
>
> Just staying on the BT stuff in the exchange with the 12db SNR and
> changing to an ISP who used the BT stuff would  achieve nothing.  I
> would still have been stuck at the 12db SNR.
>
> However there have been no further problems so I stuck with the ISP
> and I am happy, the line seems to be more stable than it ever was when
> I was connected to the BT stuff. (Monitored with  Router Stats).
> Though I dont know why that should be. Maybe because the target SNR is
> 9db.
>
> For you, changing ISP and using LLU (or a different LLU)  might be an
> option as it will get you moved to someone's else stuff in the
> exchange. Though you will need an ISP that will take an interest in
> resolving any problems you may have with your line.  I can't help you
> on that one. Others here will have had experience with their ISPs
> getting line problems sorted.
>
> During my trouble I did look at moving to Be/O2 put when I tried their
> broadband checker it said I couldn't have their broadband.  So I
> called them up and apparantly I am too far from the exchange for
> *their* broadband. Over 5km I think they said when I gave them my
> postcode.

It would appear that they have a policy of not providing service to anyone 
who won't gain an advantage from ADSL2+ because of long line difficulties.
In other words, they are forestalling future complaints from people who 
might want to migrate, thinking that things will improve - and they 
don't/cant.
As I understand it, the "up to 16Meg" service only improves speed on short 
lines. If you're on a long line, it might even get worse than it was under 
ADSL Max.

George

George Weston wrote:
> "brightside S9" <address@replyto_is_not.invalid> wrote in message
> news:nksm54dkv1hv4qco2g20bnokrppqenu9rk@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:24:13 +0100, "Martin²"  wrote:
>>
>>> This is an ongoing problem, since ADSLMax started.
>>> We had periodic problems, sometime lasting days, sometimes weeks,
>>> whenever we asked for the line to be investigated, the line was
>>> 'within limits' and we were threatened with extortionate charges
>>> for BT visit. As we could always eventually bring the connection up to
>>> ~2.5-2.8Mb/s at 6db, we lived with it, but now we are STUCK at
>>> 1.6-1.8 Mb/s / 0.8Mb/s actual
>>> download and min 12dB SNR :-(.
>>>
>>> Just had an email from PlusNet:
>>> THIS LINE IS STABLE AND WITHIN ERROR/RETRAIN LIMITS FOR THE CHOSEN
>>> SERVICE OPTION (ILQ=A)
>>> Fault Threshold Rate 921
>>> If your speed drops below 921kbps then we can investigate this
>>> further ! I can't see that changing ISP would help, the problem is the 
>>> c**p
>>> quality of
>>> BT 3.9km long line !
>>> Apparently O2 / Be LLU is coming to our exchange soon, but would
>>> they do something about the line ?
>>
>> Similar problem to mine, had burst of noise due to dodgy mains supply
>> and router went into a funny state.  Happened about 0030 in the
>> night. Resynching continued for hours and eventually gave up. Router
>> power off/on brought back the synch ~1400 but at a 12db SNR. Normally
>> synched at ~2300 kbps.  (Just enough to get me a 2M profile. I am  a
>> long way from the exchange).
>>
>> ISP investigated and sent me the logs of the continual resynching and
>> said the line should go back to a 6db SNR. They also said that  BT
>> wouldn't look at setting the SNR back to 6db  as the "line was within
>> limits".  It didn't go back to 6db SNR after three months of stable
>> running (I fitted a small UPS to the supply to the router). It was
>> stuck at 12db. Several calls to the ISP resulted in the same answer -
>> it should go back to 6db by itself.  So I gave them (ISP and BT)
>> enough rope to hang themselves. I just lived with the slow speed for
>> three  months.
>>
>> After the three months I asked ISP what they were going to do about
>> the failure to resync at 6db.  Passed to next level of support who
>> actually called me on my  landline! The problem was discussed and the
>> cause and reolution by UPS on the router deemed acceptable.
>>
>> The ISP moved me to "some other equipment" where they "could alter
>> the line parameters" if necessary.   After this it resynched at
>> around 2200kbps (which it did with BT at 6db SNR before the problem)
>> but at a 9db SNR!   The only only difference I note is that the
>> upstream synch is now 736kbps.
>>
>> I guess they moved me to some LLU equipment in the exchange.  I was
>> happy about this because if this move proved to cause other troubles
>> I could get a MAC and go elsewhere, even back to an ISP who used BT
>> stuff in the exchange.
>>
>> Just staying on the BT stuff in the exchange with the 12db SNR and
>> changing to an ISP who used the BT stuff would  achieve nothing.  I
>> would still have been stuck at the 12db SNR.
>>
>> However there have been no further problems so I stuck with the ISP
>> and I am happy, the line seems to be more stable than it ever was
>> when I was connected to the BT stuff. (Monitored with  Router Stats).
>> Though I dont know why that should be. Maybe because the target SNR
>> is 9db.
>>
>> For you, changing ISP and using LLU (or a different LLU)  might be an
>> option as it will get you moved to someone's else stuff in the
>> exchange. Though you will need an ISP that will take an interest in
>> resolving any problems you may have with your line.  I can't help you
>> on that one. Others here will have had experience with their ISPs
>> getting line problems sorted.
>>
>> During my trouble I did look at moving to Be/O2 put when I tried
>> their broadband checker it said I couldn't have their broadband.  So
>> I called them up and apparantly I am too far from the exchange for
>> *their* broadband. Over 5km I think they said when I gave them my
>> postcode.
>
> It would appear that they have a policy of not providing service to
> anyone who won't gain an advantage from ADSL2+ because of long line
> difficulties. In other words, they are forestalling future complaints
> from people who might want to migrate, thinking that things will
> improve - and they don't/cant.
> As I understand it, the "up to 16Meg" service only improves speed on
> short lines. If you're on a long line, it might even get worse than
> it was under ADSL Max.
>
> George

I assumed it would be something like that.  Which sucks frankly.  I know I 
have a long line.  I also know ADSL2+ isn't likely to do much if anything. 
What I would like is to pay £12.50 per month instead of £19.99.  Quite why I 
can't join makes no sense to me as I'm the perfect customer.  Happy to pay 
the prices and can't use up loads of bandwidth!

-- 

WCZ

"Gizmo."  writes:

> Demon went down the shitter when they moved tech support from Southend to 
> India. 

No, it went rapidly downhill before that. When it was bought by Scottish
Power/Thus.

Kraftee:
>Have you attempted to get your ISP to raise an engineering visit because if 
>you are dropping within days a APTS result should show errors so the 
>engineer should go looking for the problem.

What does APTS stands for, what does it do, and how do you find where the 
problem is ?

I need to know more then the guys at the ISP to get them to talk to BT.
Thanks, regards,
Martin

ato-zee:
>Buy a cheap ADSL only Draytek Vigor 2600,....

I HAVE 2600VGi, with long line firmware, used it for years, but after long 
spell of disconnection problems last autumn PlusNet gave me the BT1801 HG to 
try.
I synchs at higher speed, works down to 2dB, and the WiFi is better too, so 
I was quite happy to use it, (despite the software and facilities being 
inferior to the Draytek and loosing VoIP).

However all that has now been negated by the min 12dB SNR enforced at the 
exchange. I think that will still apply to the Draytek, will swap them just 
to see.

Can someone confirm that ADSLMax won't work with plain ADSL modems ?
Thanks regards,
Martin

Martin² wrote:
> Kraftee:
>> Have you attempted to get your ISP to raise an engineering visit
>> because if you are dropping within days a APTS result should show
>> errors so the engineer should go looking for the problem.
>
> What does APTS stands for, what does it do, and how do you find
> where the problem is ?
>
> I need to know more then the guys at the ISP to get them to talk to
> BT. Thanks, regards,
> Martin

I'll hold my hands up & say that no one has taken the time to actually tell 
me, which is partially my fault because I have never asked.  Being so used 
to 2, 3 or  4 letter anachronisms you tend to say ok, & just get on with the 
job, which is keeping you lot out there happy (& working).

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:24:55 +0100, kraftee passed an empty day by
writing:

> Martin wrote:
>> Kraftee:
>>> Have you attempted to get your ISP to raise an engineering visit
>>> because if you are dropping within days a APTS result should show
>>> errors so the engineer should go looking for the problem.
>>
>> What does APTS stands for, what does it do, and how do you find where
>> the problem is ?
>>
>> I need to know more then the guys at the ISP to get them to talk to BT.
>> Thanks, regards,
>> Martin
> 
> I'll hold my hands up & say that no one has taken the time to actually
> tell me, which is partially my fault because I have never asked.  Being
> so used to 2, 3 or  4 letter anachronisms you tend to say ok, & just get
> on with the job, which is keeping you lot out there happy (& working).

No idea what APtS stands for, but you can download a version of it from 
here: http://www.buzzhost.co.uk/downloads/APtS_PW_IS_broadband.zip The 
'zip' password is 'broadband'. It requires a BT Voyager 105, with drivers 
installed before hand.

It bitched at me about licences being out of date, but still worked.

It will show you errors etc, but there is very little you will be able to 
do about it. Kraftee may well have a later version of it - but I don't 
expect you will be able to pry a copy out of him ;-)


-- 
begin  oefixed_in_2005.exe

"kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
news:sKKdnQRlvtrvh8PVnZ2dnUVZ8uudnZ2d@bt.com...

> I'll hold my hands up & say that no one has taken the time to actually
tell
> me, which is partially my fault because I have never asked.  Being so used
> to 2, 3 or  4 letter anachronisms you tend to say ok, & just get on with
the
> job, which is keeping you lot out there happy (& working).
>

Automated Performance Test System

Dave wrote:
> "kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:sKKdnQRlvtrvh8PVnZ2dnUVZ8uudnZ2d@bt.com...
>
>> I'll hold my hands up & say that no one has taken the time to
>> actually tell me, which is partially my fault because I have never
>> asked.  Being so used to 2, 3 or  4 letter anachronisms you tend
>> to say ok, & just get on with the job, which is keeping you lot
>> out there happy (& working).
>>
>
> Automated Performance Test System

Many thanks Dave. bet I forget by tomorrow when I'm doing my first one 
(around 09:00) ;-)

>> Automated Performance Test System

>Many thanks Dave. bet I forget by tomorrow when I'm doing my first one 
>(around 09:00) ;-)

OK, getting there...
Do you test at the clients site, exchange or in between ?
So what does it tell you ?
What do you do then ?

I need to know more then the guys at the ISP to get them to talk to BT.
Thanks, regards,
Martin

"kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message 
news:cMednX2BO6uQSsPVnZ2dnUVZ8qfinZ2d@bt.com...
> Dave wrote:
>> "kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
>> news:sKKdnQRlvtrvh8PVnZ2dnUVZ8uudnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>>> I'll hold my hands up & say that no one has taken the time to
>>> actually tell me, which is partially my fault because I have never
>>> asked.  Being so used to 2, 3 or  4 letter anachronisms you tend
>>> to say ok, & just get on with the job, which is keeping you lot
>>> out there happy (& working).
>>>
>>
>> Automated Performance Test System
>
> Many thanks Dave. bet I forget by tomorrow when I'm doing my first one 
> (around 09:00) ;-)

Forget what ?    ;o)

"George Weston"  wrote in message 
news:6bssjiF3d8m78U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Mike" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message 
> news:U4adnT2vNuU4r8TVnZ2dnUVZ8vudnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>I replied to Plusnet that there was no change in the speed and received 
>>the following within 30 minutes or so.
>>
>> START
>> We are not showing an increase in the profile rate of your line, however 
>> it can sometimes take a disconnect of the broadband to jog it into 
>> action. If your connection rate has not gone up by tomorrow morning 
>> please let us know and we'll raise it to BT for a manual change.
>>
>> Circuit Sync Status : Circuit In Sync
>> Mux Port Status : In Service     Upstream Link Info  Loop Loss Loop Loss 
>> Add Text SNR Margin Errored Seconds HecErrors Cell Count Speed
>>      0.5   24 0 0 4700 448
>>   Downstream Link Info  Loop Loss Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin 
>> ErroredSeconds HecErrors CellCount Speed
>>      1   14 0 0 26236 8096
>>   DSL Max Data   BIP Interface Data  Current line rate Line rate change 
>> timestamp Maximum Stable Rate Recalcuated ProfileTimestamp Maximum Stable 
>> Rate
>>      4000 2008-06-11T12:09:05 N 2006-12-05T04:55:11 7392
>>   Fault Threshold Rate Interleaving Flag ServiceOption ServiceOption 
>> Status ServiceOption Update Timestamp
>>      5913 A 1
>>
>> END
>>
>> Anybody have any idea how long BT take once it is raised with them? Do 
>> they normally take hours or days
>>
>> Mick
>
> I've got a similar thing going with Plusnet right now. My speed (long 
> line) used to be 2 to 3.5 Meg but has dropped to - and stuck at - 1.5 to 2 
> Meg.
> Over the last couple of days they've been thoroughly investigating and 
> have now referred the problem to BT (expected update tomorrow morning).
> They've been very good with feedback so far.
> Keeping fingers crossed.
>
> George

Update:
Far from improving my speed, Plusnet got BT to improve my SNR, due to noise 
on the line. This has resulted in an even slower speed, which is now stable.
It might sound stupid but I was happy with the occasional disconnection, 
provided that my speed increased to what it was (up to 3.5 Meg).
It's now a steady 1.8 and not going anywhere else.
GRRRRR

:-(

George

Martin² wrote:
>>> Automated Performance Test System
>
>> Many thanks Dave. bet I forget by tomorrow when I'm doing my first
>> one (around 09:00) ;-)
>
> OK, getting there...
> Do you test at the clients site, exchange or in between ?
> So what does it tell you ?
> What do you do then ?
>
> I need to know more then the guys at the ISP to get them to talk to
> BT. Thanks, regards,
> Martin

The one you're interested in would be at site, that is your home, normally 
done from the master socket after it has been changed out for the newer 
version.  It can be used anywhere in the network between you & the exchange 
to try & locate problems causing excessive erroring on your line (although 
the line test perfect electrically).

George Weston wrote:
> "George Weston"  wrote in message
> news:6bssjiF3d8m78U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Mike" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message
>> news:U4adnT2vNuU4r8TVnZ2dnUVZ8vudnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>> I replied to Plusnet that there was no change in the speed and
>>> received the following within 30 minutes or so.
>>>
>>> START
>>> We are not showing an increase in the profile rate of your line,
>>> however it can sometimes take a disconnect of the broadband to
>>> jog it into action. If your connection rate has not gone up by
>>> tomorrow morning please let us know and we'll raise it to BT for
>>> a manual change. Circuit Sync Status : Circuit In Sync
>>> Mux Port Status : In Service     Upstream Link Info  Loop Loss
>>> Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin Errored Seconds HecErrors Cell
>>> Count Speed 0.5   24 0 0 4700 448
>>>   Downstream Link Info  Loop Loss Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin
>>> ErroredSeconds HecErrors CellCount Speed
>>>      1   14 0 0 26236 8096
>>>   DSL Max Data   BIP Interface Data  Current line rate Line rate
>>> change timestamp Maximum Stable Rate Recalcuated ProfileTimestamp
>>> Maximum Stable Rate
>>>      4000 2008-06-11T12:09:05 N 2006-12-05T04:55:11 7392
>>>   Fault Threshold Rate Interleaving Flag ServiceOption
>>> ServiceOption Status ServiceOption Update Timestamp
>>>      5913 A 1
>>>
>>> END
>>>
>>> Anybody have any idea how long BT take once it is raised with
>>> them? Do they normally take hours or days
>>>
>>> Mick
>>
>> I've got a similar thing going with Plusnet right now. My speed
>> (long line) used to be 2 to 3.5 Meg but has dropped to - and stuck
>> at - 1.5 to 2 Meg.
>> Over the last couple of days they've been thoroughly investigating
>> and have now referred the problem to BT (expected update tomorrow
>> morning). They've been very good with feedback so far.
>> Keeping fingers crossed.
>>
>> George
>
> Update:
> Far from improving my speed, Plusnet got BT to improve my SNR, due
> to noise on the line. This has resulted in an even slower speed,
> which is now stable. It might sound stupid but I was happy with the
> occasional disconnection, provided that my speed increased to what
> it was (up to 3.5 Meg). It's now a steady 1.8 and not going anywhere else.
> GRRRRR
>
> :-(
>
> George

Well it is cheaper than them paying Openreach to go to site (possibly a 
number of times) to try & pin down what is causing the excessive errors.

I know that there is a group of people who don't mind the occaisional 
dropouts but the basic service is aimed for the most stable connection 
possible, hence the increase of your SNR threshold (to possibly 12 or 15dB) 
in order to make it stable.  Do what you can to tweak your line, faceplate 
filter, good quality extension wiring etc etc...if you can improve your end 
you would have the leverage to get them to reduce your threshold & possibly 
increase your speeds again.

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:18:48 +0100, George Weston wrote:

> Far from improving my speed, Plusnet got BT to improve my SNR, due to
> noise on the line. This has resulted in an even slower speed, which is
> now stable. It might sound stupid but I was happy with the occasional
> disconnection, provided that my speed increased to what it was (up to
> 3.5 Meg). It's now a steady 1.8 and not going anywhere else. GRRRRR

There is a tool called DMT that will allow you to tweak the SNR on 
compatible routers to achieve a better sync rate. 

http://dmt.mhilfe.de/

-- 
 <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
 19:07:55 up 5 days, 18:49,  2 users,  load average: 1.05, 1.12, 1.09
 Convergence, n: The act of using separate DSL circuits for voice and data

> Update:
> Far from improving my speed, Plusnet got BT to improve my SNR, due to
> noise
> on the line. This has resulted in an even slower speed, which is now
> stable.
> It might sound stupid but I was happy with the occasional disconnection,
> provided that my speed increased to what it was (up to 3.5 Meg).
> It's now a steady 1.8 and not going anywhere else.

If they have set your SNR threshold in tablets of stone,
at an unrealistic level, then you have a problem.
By experiment I have found I can force a retrain by swapping
routers. I'm assuming when the connection starts up there
is a handshake, what do you support, ADSL, ADSL+,
what's your received signal level, SHR, and so on?
So I swap in an ADSL+ modem, then an ADSL only
modem, that has a long line UK2 flash, forcing
retrains, and my speed rises. The ADSL only
with UK2 flash gives the best sync speed.

wrote in message 
news:EPR7k.43603$GF6.10875@newsfe27.ams2...
>
>> Update:
>> Far from improving my speed, Plusnet got BT to improve my SNR, due to
>> noise
>> on the line. This has resulted in an even slower speed, which is now
>> stable.
>> It might sound stupid but I was happy with the occasional disconnection,
>> provided that my speed increased to what it was (up to 3.5 Meg).
>> It's now a steady 1.8 and not going anywhere else.
>
> If they have set your SNR threshold in tablets of stone,
> at an unrealistic level, then you have a problem.
> By experiment I have found I can force a retrain by swapping
> routers. I'm assuming when the connection starts up there
> is a handshake, what do you support, ADSL, ADSL+,
> what's your received signal level, SHR, and so on?
> So I swap in an ADSL+ modem, then an ADSL only
> modem, that has a long line UK2 flash, forcing
> retrains, and my speed rises. The ADSL only
> with UK2 flash gives the best sync speed.

All I have is an ancient Speedtouch 330 "frog" USB modem.

George

"kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message 
news:f7ednYiZ5qAQe8LVnZ2dnUVZ8uudnZ2d@bt.com...
> George Weston wrote:
>> "George Weston"  wrote in message
>> news:6bssjiF3d8m78U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Mike" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message
>>> news:U4adnT2vNuU4r8TVnZ2dnUVZ8vudnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>>> I replied to Plusnet that there was no change in the speed and
>>>> received the following within 30 minutes or so.
>>>>
>>>> START
>>>> We are not showing an increase in the profile rate of your line,
>>>> however it can sometimes take a disconnect of the broadband to
>>>> jog it into action. If your connection rate has not gone up by
>>>> tomorrow morning please let us know and we'll raise it to BT for
>>>> a manual change. Circuit Sync Status : Circuit In Sync
>>>> Mux Port Status : In Service     Upstream Link Info  Loop Loss
>>>> Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin Errored Seconds HecErrors Cell
>>>> Count Speed 0.5   24 0 0 4700 448
>>>>   Downstream Link Info  Loop Loss Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin
>>>> ErroredSeconds HecErrors CellCount Speed
>>>>      1   14 0 0 26236 8096
>>>>   DSL Max Data   BIP Interface Data  Current line rate Line rate
>>>> change timestamp Maximum Stable Rate Recalcuated ProfileTimestamp
>>>> Maximum Stable Rate
>>>>      4000 2008-06-11T12:09:05 N 2006-12-05T04:55:11 7392
>>>>   Fault Threshold Rate Interleaving Flag ServiceOption
>>>> ServiceOption Status ServiceOption Update Timestamp
>>>>      5913 A 1
>>>>
>>>> END
>>>>
>>>> Anybody have any idea how long BT take once it is raised with
>>>> them? Do they normally take hours or days
>>>>
>>>> Mick
>>>
>>> I've got a similar thing going with Plusnet right now. My speed
>>> (long line) used to be 2 to 3.5 Meg but has dropped to - and stuck
>>> at - 1.5 to 2 Meg.
>>> Over the last couple of days they've been thoroughly investigating
>>> and have now referred the problem to BT (expected update tomorrow
>>> morning). They've been very good with feedback so far.
>>> Keeping fingers crossed.
>>>
>>> George
>>
>> Update:
>> Far from improving my speed, Plusnet got BT to improve my SNR, due
>> to noise on the line. This has resulted in an even slower speed,
>> which is now stable. It might sound stupid but I was happy with the
>> occasional disconnection, provided that my speed increased to what
>> it was (up to 3.5 Meg). It's now a steady 1.8 and not going anywhere 
>> else.
>> GRRRRR
>>
>> :-(
>>
>> George
>
> Well it is cheaper than them paying Openreach to go to site (possibly a 
> number of times) to try & pin down what is causing the excessive errors.

Well they did offer me the option - if I was prepared to pay through the 
nose for an abortive visit.

> I know that there is a group of people who don't mind the occaisional 
> dropouts but the basic service is aimed for the most stable connection 
> possible, hence the increase of your SNR threshold (to possibly 12 or 
> 15dB) in order to make it stable.  Do what you can to tweak your line, 
> faceplate filter, good quality extension wiring etc etc...if you can 
> improve your end you would have the leverage to get them to reduce your 
> threshold & possibly increase your speeds again.

Thanks for the tips.
I may well get a faceplate, disconnect bell wires, etc, if that's the only 
way forward.

George

> All I have is an ancient Speedtouch 330 "frog" USB modem.

Might be worth looking on eBay for a cheap ADSL only router,
non wireless, with low postage.

As everyone wants wireless, and the faster, current production
modem/routers, the old ones, are going quite cheap.
I assume your PC has a network RJ45 connection, or
a network ethernet card.
If not you'll just have to stick with the USB, although
these aren't noted for best performance.
OK for short, low attenuation, good SNR lines
(quiet - not long enought to pick up much noise)
lines, but not ideal for the longer high
attenuation, poor SNR, lines.

George Weston wrote:
> "kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:f7ednYiZ5qAQe8LVnZ2dnUVZ8uudnZ2d@bt.com...
>> George Weston wrote:
>>> "George Weston"  wrote in message
>>> news:6bssjiF3d8m78U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Mike" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message
>>>> news:U4adnT2vNuU4r8TVnZ2dnUVZ8vudnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>>>> I replied to Plusnet that there was no change in the speed and
>>>>> received the following within 30 minutes or so.
>>>>>
>>>>> START
>>>>> We are not showing an increase in the profile rate of your line,
>>>>> however it can sometimes take a disconnect of the broadband to
>>>>> jog it into action. If your connection rate has not gone up by
>>>>> tomorrow morning please let us know and we'll raise it to BT for
>>>>> a manual change. Circuit Sync Status : Circuit In Sync
>>>>> Mux Port Status : In Service     Upstream Link Info  Loop Loss
>>>>> Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin Errored Seconds HecErrors Cell
>>>>> Count Speed 0.5   24 0 0 4700 448
>>>>>   Downstream Link Info  Loop Loss Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin
>>>>> ErroredSeconds HecErrors CellCount Speed
>>>>>      1   14 0 0 26236 8096
>>>>>   DSL Max Data   BIP Interface Data  Current line rate Line rate
>>>>> change timestamp Maximum Stable Rate Recalcuated
>>>>> ProfileTimestamp Maximum Stable Rate
>>>>>      4000 2008-06-11T12:09:05 N 2006-12-05T04:55:11 7392
>>>>>   Fault Threshold Rate Interleaving Flag ServiceOption
>>>>> ServiceOption Status ServiceOption Update Timestamp
>>>>>      5913 A 1
>>>>>
>>>>> END
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody have any idea how long BT take once it is raised with
>>>>> them? Do they normally take hours or days
>>>>>
>>>>> Mick
>>>>
>>>> I've got a similar thing going with Plusnet right now. My speed
>>>> (long line) used to be 2 to 3.5 Meg but has dropped to - and
>>>> stuck at - 1.5 to 2 Meg.
>>>> Over the last couple of days they've been thoroughly
>>>> investigating and have now referred the problem to BT (expected
>>>> update tomorrow morning). They've been very good with feedback
>>>> so far. Keeping fingers crossed.
>>>>
>>>> George
>>>
>>> Update:
>>> Far from improving my speed, Plusnet got BT to improve my SNR, due
>>> to noise on the line. This has resulted in an even slower speed,
>>> which is now stable. It might sound stupid but I was happy with
>>> the occasional disconnection, provided that my speed increased to
>>> what it was (up to 3.5 Meg). It's now a steady 1.8 and not going
>>> anywhere else.
>>> GRRRRR
>>>
>>> :-(
>>>
>>> George
>>
>> Well it is cheaper than them paying Openreach to go to site
>> (possibly a number of times) to try & pin down what is causing the
>> excessive errors.
>
> Well they did offer me the option - if I was prepared to pay
> through the nose for an abortive visit.
>
>> I know that there is a group of people who don't mind the
>> occaisional dropouts but the basic service is aimed for the most
>> stable connection possible, hence the increase of your SNR
>> threshold (to possibly 12 or 15dB) in order to make it stable.  Do
>> what you can to tweak your line, faceplate filter, good quality
>> extension wiring etc etc...if you can improve your end you would
>> have the leverage to get them to reduce your threshold & possibly
>> increase your speeds again.
>
> Thanks for the tips.
> I may well get a faceplate, disconnect bell wires, etc, if that's
> the only way forward.
>
> George

It could be, best guestimates for this line stated 3.5Mbps (IP profile 
3Mbps) with fitting a faceplate filter, using a ADSL2+ patch lead (both from 
ADSLNation, yes I didn't get one off the van) & generally putting the rest 
of my extension wiring into better order I now have an IP of 5Mbps with a 
sync rate which seldom falls below 5.5Mbps.  So it can be done.

"kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message 
news:MIqdne063Z8nmP3VRVnyuQA@bt.com...
> George Weston wrote:
>> "kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
>> news:f7ednYiZ5qAQe8LVnZ2dnUVZ8uudnZ2d@bt.com...
>>> George Weston wrote:
>>>> "George Weston"  wrote in message
>>>> news:6bssjiF3d8m78U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mike" <reply@newsgroup.please> wrote in message
>>>>> news:U4adnT2vNuU4r8TVnZ2dnUVZ8vudnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>>>>> I replied to Plusnet that there was no change in the speed and
>>>>>> received the following within 30 minutes or so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> START
>>>>>> We are not showing an increase in the profile rate of your line,
>>>>>> however it can sometimes take a disconnect of the broadband to
>>>>>> jog it into action. If your connection rate has not gone up by
>>>>>> tomorrow morning please let us know and we'll raise it to BT for
>>>>>> a manual change. Circuit Sync Status : Circuit In Sync
>>>>>> Mux Port Status : In Service     Upstream Link Info  Loop Loss
>>>>>> Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin Errored Seconds HecErrors Cell
>>>>>> Count Speed 0.5   24 0 0 4700 448
>>>>>>   Downstream Link Info  Loop Loss Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin
>>>>>> ErroredSeconds HecErrors CellCount Speed
>>>>>>      1   14 0 0 26236 8096
>>>>>>   DSL Max Data   BIP Interface Data  Current line rate Line rate
>>>>>> change timestamp Maximum Stable Rate Recalcuated
>>>>>> ProfileTimestamp Maximum Stable Rate
>>>>>>      4000 2008-06-11T12:09:05 N 2006-12-05T04:55:11 7392
>>>>>>   Fault Threshold Rate Interleaving Flag ServiceOption
>>>>>> ServiceOption Status ServiceOption Update Timestamp
>>>>>>      5913 A 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> END
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anybody have any idea how long BT take once it is raised with
>>>>>> them? Do they normally take hours or days
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mick
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got a similar thing going with Plusnet right now. My speed
>>>>> (long line) used to be 2 to 3.5 Meg but has dropped to - and
>>>>> stuck at - 1.5 to 2 Meg.
>>>>> Over the last couple of days they've been thoroughly
>>>>> investigating and have now referred the problem to BT (expected
>>>>> update tomorrow morning). They've been very good with feedback
>>>>> so far. Keeping fingers crossed.
>>>>>
>>>>> George
>>>>
>>>> Update:
>>>> Far from improving my speed, Plusnet got BT to improve my SNR, due
>>>> to noise on the line. This has resulted in an even slower speed,
>>>> which is now stable. It might sound stupid but I was happy with
>>>> the occasional disconnection, provided that my speed increased to
>>>> what it was (up to 3.5 Meg). It's now a steady 1.8 and not going
>>>> anywhere else.
>>>> GRRRRR
>>>>
>>>> :-(
>>>>
>>>> George
>>>
>>> Well it is cheaper than them paying Openreach to go to site
>>> (possibly a number of times) to try & pin down what is causing the
>>> excessive errors.
>>
>> Well they did offer me the option - if I was prepared to pay
>> through the nose for an abortive visit.
>>
>>> I know that there is a group of people who don't mind the
>>> occaisional dropouts but the basic service is aimed for the most
>>> stable connection possible, hence the increase of your SNR
>>> threshold (to possibly 12 or 15dB) in order to make it stable.  Do
>>> what you can to tweak your line, faceplate filter, good quality
>>> extension wiring etc etc...if you can improve your end you would
>>> have the leverage to get them to reduce your threshold & possibly
>>> increase your speeds again.
>>
>> Thanks for the tips.
>> I may well get a faceplate, disconnect bell wires, etc, if that's
>> the only way forward.
>>
>> George
>
> It could be, best guestimates for this line stated 3.5Mbps (IP profile 
> 3Mbps) with fitting a faceplate filter, using a ADSL2+ patch lead (both 
> from ADSLNation, yes I didn't get one off the van) & generally putting the 
> rest of my extension wiring into better order I now have an IP of 5Mbps 
> with a sync rate which seldom falls below 5.5Mbps.  So it can be done.

Sounds promising - will have a go!

George

"alexd"
> There is a tool called DMT that will allow you to tweak the SNR on
> compatible routers to achieve a better sync rate.
>
> http://dmt.mhilfe.de/
>

None of my routers are on the list, which appears to be pretty old.
The newer Drayteks have that build in, but
are you sure that the DSLAM at the exchange will take any notice of that,
or will it stick with the BT decreed profile ?
Thanks, regards,
Martin

"kraftee"  wrote

> The one you're interested in would be at site, that is your home, normally 
> done from the master socket after it has been changed out for the newer 
> version.  It can be used anywhere in the network between you & the 
> exchange to try & locate problems causing excessive erroring on your line 
> (although the line test perfect electrically).

Well, that means an openreach visit at £180+ !
The trouble is we got interminent line spikes / disconnections, sometimes 
every few hours for weeks on end, mostly every 3 or 4 days, sometimes it's 
OK for several weeks.
It could take days to track down what's causing it....:-(
Regards,
Martin

Martin² wrote:
> "alexd"
>> There is a tool called DMT that will allow you to tweak the SNR on
>> compatible routers to achieve a better sync rate.
>>
>> http://dmt.mhilfe.de/
>>
> 
> None of my routers are on the list, which appears to be pretty old.
> The newer Drayteks have that build in, but
> are you sure that the DSLAM at the exchange will take any notice of that,
> or will it stick with the BT decreed profile ?
> Thanks, regards,
> Martin 
> 
> 
It certainly can be done.


I hada HUGE issue whenI wento ADSL max. Connections were fast but 
flakey. By SNR ended up at 12db at te DSLAM and it ws still falky.

After several days of net research I discovered the telnet interface, 
and started changing every parameter in sight: one was something like a 
'turbo' switch..cant remember what it was called. I switched it off and 
immediately dropped speed by about half. I now am at normal operation.

ato_zee@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Update:
>> Far from improving my speed, Plusnet got BT to improve my SNR, due to
>> noise
>> on the line. This has resulted in an even slower speed, which is now
>> stable.
>> It might sound stupid but I was happy with the occasional disconnection,
>> provided that my speed increased to what it was (up to 3.5 Meg).
>> It's now a steady 1.8 and not going anywhere else.
> 
> If they have set your SNR threshold in tablets of stone,
> at an unrealistic level, then you have a problem.
> By experiment I have found I can force a retrain by swapping
> routers. I'm assuming when the connection starts up there
> is a handshake, what do you support, ADSL, ADSL+,
> what's your received signal level, SHR, and so on?
> So I swap in an ADSL+ modem, then an ADSL only
> modem, that has a long line UK2 flash, forcing
> retrains, and my speed rises. The ADSL only
> with UK2 flash gives the best sync speed.

SNR ratio at the DSLAM has to be manulally reset.

ato_zee@hotmail.com wrote:
>> All I have is an ancient Speedtouch 330 "frog" USB modem.
> 
> Might be worth looking on eBay for a cheap ADSL only router,
> non wireless, with low postage.

yep. I got a Dlink 504 for peanuts.

Does need all teh latests firwmwre patches and a turn off of the turbo 
functin tho.

Buta  new netgear is only 30 quid or so IIRC.

> 
> As everyone wants wireless, and the faster, current production
> modem/routers, the old ones, are going quite cheap.
> I assume your PC has a network RJ45 connection, or
> a network ethernet card.
> If not you'll just have to stick with the USB, although
> these aren't noted for best performance.
> OK for short, low attenuation, good SNR lines
> (quiet - not long enought to pick up much noise)
> lines, but not ideal for the longer high
> attenuation, poor SNR, lines.

Martin² wrote:
&g