I'm about to change my ISP.

I currently have an "8 Mb" service from Nildram which shows about 2.5 Mbps 
on a speed checker.
So, is there any point to going for a "16 Mb" service with my new ISP 
(probably O2)?

It seems there are two possibilities. Either my line is limited to about 2.5 
Mbps, in which case the faster service is wasted. Or maybe the faster 
service will double my download speed to around 5 Mbps. Can anyone tell me 
the likely result?

Steve

"Steve"  wrote in message 
news:RM-dnQrtMcVMiMjVnZ2dneKdnZynnZ2d@pipex.net...
> I'm about to change my ISP.
>
> I currently have an "8 Mb" service from Nildram which shows about 2.5 Mbps 
> on a speed checker.

No you have an "upto" 8Mb service

> I currently have an "8 Mb" service from Nildram which shows about 2.5 Mbps
> on a speed checker.
> So, is there any point to going for a "16 Mb" service with my new ISP
> (probably O2)?

You should be able to get your sync speed, attenuation and signal noise
ratio SNR from your routers control panel.
There are several on line guides for expected speed based on atten
and SNR. Plus much informed comment if you publish the
figures here.
In general you get what your line supports, as you aren't getting the 8Mb
you probably won't get 16Mb, though you may see a slight improvement.
Speed can depend on what is at your end, router,  local wiring,
noise sources, and the capability of your ISP to deliver the speed,
particularly at peak load times.
Like if you only get  high speed test figures at 2am.

If your attenuation is higher then 49dB you will NOT get any benefit from 
ADSL2/2+ .
There a graph showing that on several websites.
Mine is 51dB + :-(
Regards,
Martin

Martin² wrote:
> If your attenuation is higher then 49dB you will NOT get any benefit
> from ADSL2/2+ .
> There a graph showing that on several websites.
> Mine is 51dB + :-(
> Regards,
> Martin

I've seen several of these graphs and some show improvement out to extremely 
long lines.  The OP won't know until he\she tries ADSL2 but I would expect 
some improvement even if its only 0.25Mb.

You've got nothing to lose by moving to O2 or Be other than the 12 month 
lock in contract.  O2 seem pretty well thought of the last time I looked at 
them.  I was going to move but they don't want people with long lines.  :-(

-- 

WCZ

Sorry. I should have been more careful in my wording. I'll bet absolutely no
one understood what I meant.

Perhaps you didn't understand the gist of my question?

If I get only 2.5 Mb from an "Up to 8 Mb" service. What can I expect from an
"Up to 16 Mb" service?

Steve



"SJP" <someone@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message 
news:TPGdnW-ONv_5uMjVnZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Steve"  wrote in message 
> news:RM-dnQrtMcVMiMjVnZ2dneKdnZynnZ2d@pipex.net...
>> I'm about to change my ISP.
>>
>> I currently have an "8 Mb" service from Nildram which shows about 2.5 
>> Mbps on a speed checker.
>
> No you have an "upto" 8Mb service
>

Unfortunately, my old Dynamode PCI router doesn't divulge this sort of 
information.

Steve



 wrote in message 
news:wfa5k.137984$Ex2.133615@newsfe12.ams2...
>
>> I currently have an "8 Mb" service from Nildram which shows about 2.5 
>> Mbps
>> on a speed checker.
>> So, is there any point to going for a "16 Mb" service with my new ISP
>> (probably O2)?
>
> You should be able to get your sync speed, attenuation and signal noise
> ratio SNR from your routers control panel.
> There are several on line guides for expected speed based on atten
> and SNR. Plus much informed comment if you publish the
> figures here.
> In general you get what your line supports, as you aren't getting the 8Mb
> you probably won't get 16Mb, though you may see a slight improvement.
> Speed can depend on what is at your end, router,  local wiring,
> noise sources, and the capability of your ISP to deliver the speed,
> particularly at peak load times.
> Like if you only get  high speed test figures at 2am.

I've decided to go ahead with the UPTO 8 Mb service from O2.
This will also get me a modern router so I can then see attenuation etc.
If things look promising at that point I may decide to upgrade to UPTO 16 
Mb.

Thanks to you all for your help.

Steve



"WCZ"  wrote in message 
news:g354e3$lte$1@aioe.org...
> Martin² wrote:
>> If your attenuation is higher then 49dB you will NOT get any benefit
>> from ADSL2/2+ .
>> There a graph showing that on several websites.
>> Mine is 51dB + :-(
>> Regards,
>> Martin
>
> I've seen several of these graphs and some show improvement out to 
> extremely long lines.  The OP won't know until he\she tries ADSL2 but I 
> would expect some improvement even if its only 0.25Mb.
>
> You've got nothing to lose by moving to O2 or Be other than the 12 month 
> lock in contract.  O2 seem pretty well thought of the last time I looked 
> at them.  I was going to move but they don't want people with long lines. 
> :-(
>
> -- 
>
> WCZ
>

Steve wrote:
> Sorry. I should have been more careful in my wording. I'll bet
> absolutely no one understood what I meant.
>
> Perhaps you didn't understand the gist of my question?
>
> If I get only 2.5 Mb from an "Up to 8 Mb" service. What can I expect
> from an "Up to 16 Mb" service?
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> "SJP" <someone@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
> news:TPGdnW-ONv_5uMjVnZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "Steve"  wrote in message
>> news:RM-dnQrtMcVMiMjVnZ2dneKdnZynnZ2d@pipex.net...
>>> I'm about to change my ISP.
>>>
>>> I currently have an "8 Mb" service from Nildram which shows about
>>> 2.5 Mbps on a speed checker.
>>
>> No you have an "upto" 8Mb service

Well, as always 'it depends'.

If the 8Mb service is ADSL and the 16Mb service is ADSL2+ then I'd expect 
you to get a bit more speed out of the 16Mb service.

In your case, its hard to say.  Nildram are Tiscali and they have their own 
kit in the exchange so you're probably already LLU'd.  I'm not sure if the 
Tiscali kit is ADSL2+ or not.

However, as you have 2.5Mb now its almost a certainty that you won't get 
more than 8Mb even if you are moving from ADSL to ADSL2+ so the up to 8Mb 
will be fine.

Hope that makes some sense.  Its all rather confusing.

-- 

WCZ

> >> I currently have an "8 Mb" service from Nildram which shows about 2.5
> >> Mbps
> >> on a speed checker.

Speed checkers are not very reliable, the delivered speed depends
on a number of factors.
If your ISP gives you webspace, create a simple html web page
using notepad. Then upload it with a large embedded .jpg or
.gif file. Time how long it takes to display in your browser, or
better still to FTP it back to you.  Rules out your
local browser cache.
Since it is coming from a server on your ISP's network it
will be the best they can deliver at that time of day, it will
be a percentage of your sync speed, how small a
percentage depends on your ISP.

Steve wrote:
> I'm about to change my ISP.
> 
> I currently have an "8 Mb" service from Nildram which shows about 2.5 Mbps 
> on a speed checker.
> So, is there any point to going for a "16 Mb" service with my new ISP 
> (probably O2)?
> 
> It seems there are two possibilities. Either my line is limited to about 2.5 
> Mbps, in which case the faster service is wasted. Or maybe the faster 
> service will double my download speed to around 5 Mbps. Can anyone tell me 
> the likely result?
> 
> Steve 
> 
> 

What does your router say?

Steve wrote:
> I'm about to change my ISP.
> 
> I currently have an "8 Mb" service from Nildram which shows about 2.5 Mbps 
> on a speed checker.
> So, is there any point to going for a "16 Mb" service with my new ISP 
> (probably O2)?
> 
> It seems there are two possibilities. Either my line is limited to about 2.5 
> Mbps, in which case the faster service is wasted. Or maybe the faster 
> service will double my download speed to around 5 Mbps. Can anyone tell me 
> the likely result?
> 
> Steve 
> 
> 

What is the connection rate according to your router?

Mr Cork,

The router says 3.7 Mbps.

going here: http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/

Up speed is 383 kbps
Down speed is 2630 kbps

Steve


"Cork Soaker" <Thunderbird@Hardy.invalid> wrote in message 
news:7s8ii5-u3n.ln1@quarkbomb.dyndns.org...
> Steve wrote:
>> I'm about to change my ISP.
>>
>> I currently have an "8 Mb" service from Nildram which shows about 2.5 
>> Mbps on a speed checker.
>> So, is there any point to going for a "16 Mb" service with my new ISP 
>> (probably O2)?
>>
>> It seems there are two possibilities. Either my line is limited to about 
>> 2.5 Mbps, in which case the faster service is wasted. Or maybe the faster 
>> service will double my download speed to around 5 Mbps. Can anyone tell 
>> me the likely result?
>>
>> Steve
>
> What is the connection rate according to your router?

At a best guess, you should connect at between 7 and 8mbps., but without the 
Noise and Attenuation figures to back that up, it's impossible to tell.

--
Far

"Steve"  wrote in message 
news:qf-dnU5ld_ZoAsvVnZ2dnUVZ8trinZ2d@pipex.net...
> Mr Cork,
>
> The router says 3.7 Mbps.
>
> going here: http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/
>
> Up speed is 383 kbps
> Down speed is 2630 kbps
>
> Steve
>
>
> "Cork Soaker" <Thunderbird@Hardy.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:7s8ii5-u3n.ln1@quarkbomb.dyndns.org...
>> Steve wrote:
>>> I'm about to change my ISP.
>>>
>>> I currently have an "8 Mb" service from Nildram which shows about 2.5 
>>> Mbps on a speed checker.
>>> So, is there any point to going for a "16 Mb" service with my new ISP 
>>> (probably O2)?
>>>
>>> It seems there are two possibilities. Either my line is limited to about 
>>> 2.5 Mbps, in which case the faster service is wasted. Or maybe the 
>>> faster service will double my download speed to around 5 Mbps. Can 
>>> anyone tell me the likely result?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>> What is the connection rate according to your router?
>
>

Steve wrote:
> Mr Cork,
> 
> The router says 3.7 Mbps.
> 
> going here: http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/
> 
> Up speed is 383 kbps
> Down speed is 2630 kbps
> 

Then going from 8 to 16 you will still be connecting at 3.7 and see no 
difference in throughput.

Thank you.


"Cork Soaker" <Thunderbird@Hardy.invalid> wrote in message 
news:om4ji5-nn5.ln1@quarkbomb.dyndns.org...
> Steve wrote:
>> Mr Cork,
>>
>> The router says 3.7 Mbps.
>>
>> going here: http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/
>>
>> Up speed is 383 kbps
>> Down speed is 2630 kbps
>>
>
> Then going from 8 to 16 you will still be connecting at 3.7 and see no 
> difference in throughput.

Steve wrote:
> Thank you.
>
>
> "Cork Soaker" <Thunderbird@Hardy.invalid> wrote in message
> news:om4ji5-nn5.ln1@quarkbomb.dyndns.org...
>> Steve wrote:
>>> Mr Cork,
>>>
>>> The router says 3.7 Mbps.
>>>
>>> going here: http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/
>>>
>>> Up speed is 383 kbps
>>> Down speed is 2630 kbps
>>>
>>
>> Then going from 8 to 16 you will still be connecting at 3.7 and see
>> no difference in throughput.

That may or may not be true.  Assuming the OP is on ADSL1 then going to 
ADSL2+ *could possibly* give him a connection greater than 8Mbps.  He won't 
know until he tries but even if > 8 Mbps is possible it won't be by much.

-- 

WCZ

WCZ wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>> "Cork Soaker" <Thunderbird@Hardy.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:om4ji5-nn5.ln1@quarkbomb.dyndns.org...
>>> Steve wrote:
>>>> Mr Cork,
>>>>
>>>> The router says 3.7 Mbps.
>>>>
>>>> going here: http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/
>>>>
>>>> Up speed is 383 kbps
>>>> Down speed is 2630 kbps
>>>>
>>> Then going from 8 to 16 you will still be connecting at 3.7 and see
>>> no difference in throughput.
> 
> That may or may not be true.  Assuming the OP is on ADSL1 then going to 
> ADSL2+ *could possibly* give him a connection greater than 8Mbps.  He won't 
> know until he tries but even if > 8 Mbps is possible it won't be by much.
> 

True, but unlikely.  Certainly not worth the extra cost.

Cork Soaker wrote:
> WCZ wrote:
>> Steve wrote:
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Cork Soaker" <Thunderbird@Hardy.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:om4ji5-nn5.ln1@quarkbomb.dyndns.org...
>>>> Steve wrote:
>>>>> Mr Cork,
>>>>>
>>>>> The router says 3.7 Mbps.
>>>>>
>>>>> going here: http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/
>>>>>
>>>>> Up speed is 383 kbps
>>>>> Down speed is 2630 kbps
>>>>>
>>>> Then going from 8 to 16 you will still be connecting at 3.7 and see
>>>> no difference in throughput.
>>
>> That may or may not be true.  Assuming the OP is on ADSL1 then going 
>> to ADSL2+ *could possibly* give him a connection greater than 8Mbps.  
>> He won't know until he tries but even if > 8 Mbps is possible it won't 
>> be by much.
>>
> 
> True, but unlikely.  Certainly not worth the extra cost.

If you are on less than 6Mbps with ADSL max,unless you want the higher 
upload speeds, ADSL 2+ is not going to show much improvemnet, if any.

Ok. My 8 Mbps O2 service is connected.
Using the speedcheck at http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/ my figures have 
gone from Nildram's

Up speed is 383 kbps
Down speed is 2630 kbps

To

Up speed is 1042 kbps
Down speed is 7083 kbps

Astonishing!

I think much of the increase must have come from replacing my old PCI modem 
with the O2 box.

Just for completeness, here are the modem data. Would I get better if I 
upgraded to a 16 meg service?

Can anyone help me interpret these?



Uptime: 0 days, 4:50:08

DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,239 / 8,251

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.0

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 19.0 / 36.5

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.0 / 6.0

Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): 0

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 12 / 143,497

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 12 / 75

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 32 / 56


Steve

On Jun 24, 5:24 pm, "Steve"  wrote:
> Ok. My 8 Mbps O2 service is connected.
> Using the speedcheck athttp://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/my figures have
> gone from Nildram's
>
> Up speed is 383 kbps
> Down speed is 2630 kbps
>
> To
>
> Up speed is 1042 kbps
> Down speed is 7083 kbps
>
> Astonishing!
>
> I think much of the increase must have come from replacing my old PCI modem
> with the O2 box.
>
> Just for completeness, here are the modem data. Would I get better if I
> upgraded to a 16 meg service?
>
> Can anyone help me interpret these?
>
> Uptime: 0 days, 4:50:08
>
> DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
>
> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,239 / 8,251
>
> Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
>
> Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.0
>
> Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 19.0 / 36.5
>
> SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5.0 / 6.0
>
> Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM
>
> Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
>
> Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
>
> Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
>
> Loss of Link (Remote): 0
>
> Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
>
> FEC Errors (Up/Down): 12 / 143,497
>
> CRC Errors (Up/Down): 12 / 75
>
> HEC Errors (Up/Down): 32 / 56
>
> Steve

with that attenuation you should be able to get about 10Mb downstream,
maybe slightly higher as your current stats look reasonable

http://www.beforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6490