I am helping a small charity prepare to move into a new office in a 
small rural town.

They will need a PBX that offers DDI, so we are talking ISDN. Capacity 
needs to be 6 ISDN channels + 12 extensions.

Energy consumption and reliability are important, so I am not attracted 
to a PC-based system. Cash is tight so I will do the installation for them.

I can find ISDN PBX units up to 4+8 on a self-install basis readily 
enough, but the market seems to stop there.

Where should I be looking for systems:

- that I can buy off the shelf
- which come with a competent manual in English, that will allow for 
self-install by an IT/Telecoms-savvy person
- with a sensibly-priced swap-out service in the event of failure 
(either pay-per-event or annual fee).

Ideas?

John Geddes
Derbyshire

In article , John Geddes <john@st4rm4rk
associates.co.uk> scribeth thus
>I am helping a small charity prepare to move into a new office in a 
>small rural town.
>
>They will need a PBX that offers DDI, so we are talking ISDN. Capacity 
>needs to be 6 ISDN channels + 12 extensions.
>
>Energy consumption and reliability are important, so I am not attracted 
>to a PC-based system. Cash is tight so I will do the installation for them.
>
>I can find ISDN PBX units up to 4+8 on a self-install basis readily 
>enough, but the market seems to stop there.
>
>Where should I be looking for systems:
>
>- that I can buy off the shelf
>- which come with a competent manual in English, that will allow for 
>self-install by an IT/Telecoms-savvy person
>- with a sensibly-priced swap-out service in the event of failure 
>(either pay-per-event or annual fee).
>
>Ideas?
>
>John Geddes
>Derbyshire

Even if it is a charity they will still want it fixed pronto;!..


Second-hand Panasonic system?. Can be had quite cheap on flea bay.

Even our old London 8 is still ticking fine here after donkeys years;)..
-- 
Tony Sayer

"John Geddes"  wrote in message 
news:6du3j5-0je.ln1@chiron.w3z.co.uk...
>I am helping a small charity prepare to move into a new office in a small 
>rural town.
>
> They will need a PBX that offers DDI, so we are talking ISDN. Capacity 
> needs to be 6 ISDN channels + 12 extensions.
>
> Energy consumption and reliability are important, so I am not attracted to 
> a PC-based system. Cash is tight so I will do the installation for them.
>
> I can find ISDN PBX units up to 4+8 on a self-install basis readily 
> enough, but the market seems to stop there.
>
> Where should I be looking for systems:
>
> - that I can buy off the shelf
> - which come with a competent manual in English, that will allow for 
> self-install by an IT/Telecoms-savvy person
> - with a sensibly-priced swap-out service in the event of failure (either 
> pay-per-event or annual fee).
>
> Ideas?
>
> John Geddes
> Derbyshire

Panasonic KX-TDA-15 PBX provides two ISDN lines (four channels) and twelve 
extensions out of the box - £539 + VAT from Nimans.  Supports DDI and 
zillions of other features.  Upgradeable for more lines and extensions, VOIP 
etc.  Runs cools in a rack (or on a table), no fans or disks.  Bump in wire 
PSU (and easy UPS if you are rural).  Configuration saved on an SD card, so 
if the PBX fails you swap it out, put the SD card in another box and are up 
again minutes later.  Line and extension card (8 exts) can be swapped too.

Unless it is a CAB call centre or similar, you probably don't need 6 
channels for 12 extensions - start with four and if you need more order 
another line and line card.  This will save you £££pa on line rental.

Probably reliable enough that you can take the risk on total failure.

Manuals online at
http://www.birminghamtelecom.co.uk/downloads/KX-TDA15-30-100-200_Specifications.pdf 
(brochure really)
http://www.lccuk.com/files/docs/manuals/KXTDA_User_Manual.pdf
http://www.syd-com.se/produkter/vaxlar_panasonic/KXTDA/KXTDA15/Install_manual.pdf

The only downside is that apart from the 4 built in extensions you need to 
use proprietary system phones.  OTOH these are excellent and comparable in 
price to regular phones.

In article , john@st4rm4rkassociates.co.uk
(John Geddes) wrote:

> They will need a PBX that offers DDI, so we are talking ISDN. 
> Capacity needs to be 6 ISDN channels + 12 extensions.

The NEC XN120 switch will do all this assuming ISDN-2 channels, I self
installed mine.  I program it from a PC, and load the files into the switch
over TCP/IP. 

You'd need a base unit which is 3x8 (analogue), an 008 extensions card and
8 channel ISDN card, total around £1,000 for a 11x16.  It can use POTS
phones (with analogue CLI) or display phones which will put the price up
somewhat. 

Angus

"John Geddes"  wrote in message 
news:6du3j5-0je.ln1@chiron.w3z.co.uk...
>I am helping a small charity prepare to move into a new office in a small 
>rural town.
>
> They will need a PBX that offers DDI, so we are talking ISDN. Capacity 
> needs to be 6 ISDN channels + 12 extensions.
>
> Energy consumption and reliability are important, so I am not attracted to 
> a PC-based system. Cash is tight so I will do the installation for them.
>
> I can find ISDN PBX units up to 4+8 on a self-install basis readily 
> enough, but the market seems to stop there.
>
> Where should I be looking for systems:
>
> - that I can buy off the shelf
> - which come with a competent manual in English, that will allow for 
> self-install by an IT/Telecoms-savvy person
> - with a sensibly-priced swap-out service in the event of failure (either 
> pay-per-event or annual fee).
>
> Ideas?
>
> John Geddes
> Derbyshire
John

Bringing erlangs rules into play unless specialist use I would suggest that 
6 BRI channels v 12 extns maybe over egging the pudiing.
Personally I would opt for a good s/hand Panasonic KXTD 816 internal 2 x BRI 
card giving voice lines, some DDI's from the supplier and away you go.
Meets all your specs outlined above and can add extra BRI module.
Also PC program, save setup to dump into another should you have a mishap
Freely available from decent re sellers, available info, easy to program and 
loads of us to assist with queries.

Regards

Alastair

"Al"  wrote in message 
news:rqS7k.123000$9x.22903@newsfe05.ams2...
>
> "John Geddes"  wrote in message 
> news:6du3j5-0je.ln1@chiron.w3z.co.uk...
>>I am helping a small charity prepare to move into a new office in a small 
>>rural town.
>>
>> They will need a PBX that offers DDI, so we are talking ISDN. Capacity 
>> needs to be 6 ISDN channels + 12 extensions.
>>
>> Energy consumption and reliability are important, so I am not attracted 
>> to a PC-based system. Cash is tight so I will do the installation for 
>> them.
>>
>> I can find ISDN PBX units up to 4+8 on a self-install basis readily 
>> enough, but the market seems to stop there.
>>
>> Where should I be looking for systems:
>>
>> - that I can buy off the shelf
>> - which come with a competent manual in English, that will allow for 
>> self-install by an IT/Telecoms-savvy person
>> - with a sensibly-priced swap-out service in the event of failure (either 
>> pay-per-event or annual fee).
>>
>> Ideas?
>>
>> John Geddes
>> Derbyshire
> John
>
> Bringing erlangs rules into play unless specialist use I would suggest 
> that 6 BRI channels v 12 extns maybe over egging the pudiing.

Agreed.

> Personally I would opt for a good s/hand Panasonic KXTD 816 internal 2 x 
> BRI card giving voice lines, some DDI's from the supplier and away you go.

You might be able to source one of these second hand, but they were designed 
for analog trunks and very likely you first purchase will have to be BRI 
card(s).  Why not look for a S/H KXTDA 15?

> Meets all your specs outlined above and can add extra BRI module.
> Also PC program, save setup to dump into another should you have a mishap
> Freely available from decent re sellers, available info, easy to program 
> and loads of us to assist with queries.
>
> Regards
>
> Alastair
>
>
>

"John Geddes"  wrote in message 
news:6du3j5-0je.ln1@chiron.w3z.co.uk...
>I am helping a small charity prepare to move into a new office in a small 
>rural town.
>
> They will need a PBX that offers DDI, so we are talking ISDN. Capacity 
> needs to be 6 ISDN channels + 12 extensions.
>
> Energy consumption and reliability are important, so I am not attracted to 
> a PC-based system. Cash is tight so I will do the installation for them.
>
> I can find ISDN PBX units up to 4+8 on a self-install basis readily 
> enough, but the market seems to stop there.
>
> Where should I be looking for systems:
>
> - that I can buy off the shelf
> - which come with a competent manual in English, that will allow for 
> self-install by an IT/Telecoms-savvy person
> - with a sensibly-priced swap-out service in the event of failure (either 
> pay-per-event or annual fee).
>
> Ideas?
>
> John Geddes
> Derbyshire

There is no need to always go down the ISDN path to provide DDI 
functionality on a PBX.

The BT Inspiration that I have as an Auto Attendant feature that allows 
callers to ring directly through to an extension. I'm sure other PBXs also 
provide this facility.

Steve.

In news:g3ratp$ho8$1@registered.motzarella.org,
steveybar  typed, for some strange, 
unexplained reason:

[snip]

: There is no need to always go down the ISDN path to provide DDI
: functionality on a PBX.
:
: The BT Inspiration that I have as an Auto Attendant feature that
: allows callers to ring directly through to an extension. I'm sure
: other PBXs also provide this facility.

Yep. Even my old 1989-vintage London 16 will do this. Don't get CLI passed 
through to the extensions though which is a bummer. But it will do 
loop-dis to MF conversion so I can use my old 706's etc. on VoIP ;-)


Ivor

: Steve.

"steveybar"  wrote in message 
news:g3ratp$ho8$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "John Geddes"  wrote in message 
> news:6du3j5-0je.ln1@chiron.w3z.co.uk...
>>I am helping a small charity prepare to move into a new office in a small 
>>rural town.
>>
>> They will need a PBX that offers DDI, so we are talking ISDN. Capacity 
>> needs to be 6 ISDN channels + 12 extensions.
>>
>> Energy consumption and reliability are important, so I am not attracted 
>> to a PC-based system. Cash is tight so I will do the installation for 
>> them.
>>
>> I can find ISDN PBX units up to 4+8 on a self-install basis readily 
>> enough, but the market seems to stop there.
>>
>> Where should I be looking for systems:
>>
>> - that I can buy off the shelf
>> - which come with a competent manual in English, that will allow for 
>> self-install by an IT/Telecoms-savvy person
>> - with a sensibly-priced swap-out service in the event of failure (either 
>> pay-per-event or annual fee).
>>
>> Ideas?
>>
>> John Geddes
>> Derbyshire
>
> There is no need to always go down the ISDN path to provide DDI 
> functionality on a PBX.
>
> The BT Inspiration that I have as an Auto Attendant feature that allows 
> callers to ring directly through to an extension. I'm sure other PBXs also 
> provide this facility.
>
> Steve.
>

You would be pretty sad not to go ISDN.  For a start ISDN squirts two 
channels down each physical line, and I have never seen the BERR budge off 
zero.

"R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message 
news:R6udnSjAE9Lw5v_VRVnyggA@bt.com...
>
> "steveybar"  wrote in message 
> news:g3ratp$ho8$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "John Geddes"  wrote in message 
>> news:6du3j5-0je.ln1@chiron.w3z.co.uk...
>>>I am helping a small charity prepare to move into a new office in a small 
>>>rural town.
>>>
>>> They will need a PBX that offers DDI, so we are talking ISDN. Capacity 
>>> needs to be 6 ISDN channels + 12 extensions.
>>>
>>> Energy consumption and reliability are important, so I am not attracted 
>>> to a PC-based system. Cash is tight so I will do the installation for 
>>> them.
>>>
>>> I can find ISDN PBX units up to 4+8 on a self-install basis readily 
>>> enough, but the market seems to stop there.
>>>
>>> Where should I be looking for systems:
>>>
>>> - that I can buy off the shelf
>>> - which come with a competent manual in English, that will allow for 
>>> self-install by an IT/Telecoms-savvy person
>>> - with a sensibly-priced swap-out service in the event of failure 
>>> (either pay-per-event or annual fee).
>>>
>>> Ideas?
>>>
>>> John Geddes
>>> Derbyshire
>>
>> There is no need to always go down the ISDN path to provide DDI 
>> functionality on a PBX.
>>
>> The BT Inspiration that I have as an Auto Attendant feature that allows 
>> callers to ring directly through to an extension. I'm sure other PBXs 
>> also provide this facility.
>>
>> Steve.
>>
>
> You would be pretty sad not to go ISDN.  For a start ISDN squirts two 
> channels down each physical line, and I have never seen the BERR budge off 
> zero.

But at an extra cost for PBX kit and ISDN lines - Quote from original post 
"Cash is tight"

Also in the event of a PBX failure, using normal PSTN lines and the PBX's 
mains/power fail arrangements, incoming and outgoing calls can still be 
maintained.

Don't forget we are talking about a charity office in a small rural town.

Steve.

In article <g3uo3g$f2h$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
steveybar  wrote:
>
>"R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message 
>news:R6udnSjAE9Lw5v_VRVnyggA@bt.com...
>>
>> "steveybar"  wrote in message 
>> news:g3ratp$ho8$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>
>>> "John Geddes"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6du3j5-0je.ln1@chiron.w3z.co.uk...
>>>>I am helping a small charity prepare to move into a new office in a small 
>>>>rural town.
>>>>
>>>> They will need a PBX that offers DDI, so we are talking ISDN. Capacity 
>>>> needs to be 6 ISDN channels + 12 extensions.
>>>>
>>>> Energy consumption and reliability are important, so I am not attracted 
>>>> to a PC-based system. Cash is tight so I will do the installation for 
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> I can find ISDN PBX units up to 4+8 on a self-install basis readily 
>>>> enough, but the market seems to stop there.
>>>>
>>>> Where should I be looking for systems:
>>>>
>>>> - that I can buy off the shelf
>>>> - which come with a competent manual in English, that will allow for 
>>>> self-install by an IT/Telecoms-savvy person
>>>> - with a sensibly-priced swap-out service in the event of failure 
>>>> (either pay-per-event or annual fee).
>>>>
>>>> Ideas?
>>>>
>>>> John Geddes
>>>> Derbyshire
>>>
>>> There is no need to always go down the ISDN path to provide DDI 
>>> functionality on a PBX.
>>>
>>> The BT Inspiration that I have as an Auto Attendant feature that allows 
>>> callers to ring directly through to an extension. I'm sure other PBXs 
>>> also provide this facility.
>>>
>>> Steve.
>>>
>>
>> You would be pretty sad not to go ISDN.  For a start ISDN squirts two 
>> channels down each physical line, and I have never seen the BERR budge off 
>> zero.
>
>But at an extra cost for PBX kit and ISDN lines - Quote from original post 
>"Cash is tight"
>
>Also in the event of a PBX failure, using normal PSTN lines and the PBX's 
>mains/power fail arrangements, incoming and outgoing calls can still be 
>maintained.
>
>Don't forget we are talking about a charity office in a small rural town.

Power consumption is an issue these days and I see the OP wasn't intersted
in PC systems becasue of that, but the (PC based) boxes that I make/sell
consume about 15W - phones are typically 2-3W each, but for that number
of lines, *if* the location has a good broadband connection (ie. over
400Kb/sec upload speed, preferably over 500Kb on a businesss service),
then I'd suggest the best way to save money would be by going VoIP.

3 ISDN2e ports is going to cost in the region of £75 a month vs. a single
BT analogue line (£10.50) + business ISP (£25) which comes to half that,
if they do get a good ADSL speed and their business broadband use is light
(email and a bit of web rather than P2P, gaming, etc.), then it might be
possible to save more money by just having the one good business quality
ADSL line and a router that can handle traffic shaping/QoS. (Zyxels and
the new Drayteks seem fine these days)

OK - I'm biased - I sell VoIP and matching PBXs, but as long as you pick
the right broadband connection (I resell Entanet and have found their
business packages ideal), then it's a very workable solution these days.

Gordon

"steveybar"  wrote in message 
news:g3uo3g$f2h$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message 
> news:R6udnSjAE9Lw5v_VRVnyggA@bt.com...
>>
>> "steveybar"  wrote in message 
>> news:g3ratp$ho8$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>
>>> "John Geddes"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6du3j5-0je.ln1@chiron.w3z.co.uk...
>>>>I am helping a small charity prepare to move into a new office in a 
>>>>small rural town.
>>>>
>>>> They will need a PBX that offers DDI, so we are talking ISDN. Capacity 
>>>> needs to be 6 ISDN channels + 12 extensions.
>>>>
>>>> Energy consumption and reliability are important, so I am not attracted 
>>>> to a PC-based system. Cash is tight so I will do the installation for 
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> I can find ISDN PBX units up to 4+8 on a self-install basis readily 
>>>> enough, but the market seems to stop there.
>>>>
>>>> Where should I be looking for systems:
>>>>
>>>> - that I can buy off the shelf
>>>> - which come with a competent manual in English, that will allow for 
>>>> self-install by an IT/Telecoms-savvy person
>>>> - with a sensibly-priced swap-out service in the event of failure 
>>>> (either pay-per-event or annual fee).
>>>>
>>>> Ideas?
>>>>
>>>> John Geddes
>>>> Derbyshire
>>>
>>> There is no need to always go down the ISDN path to provide DDI 
>>> functionality on a PBX.
>>>
>>> The BT Inspiration that I have as an Auto Attendant feature that allows 
>>> callers to ring directly through to an extension. I'm sure other PBXs 
>>> also provide this facility.
>>>
>>> Steve.
>>>
>>
>> You would be pretty sad not to go ISDN.  For a start ISDN squirts two 
>> channels down each physical line, and I have never seen the BERR budge 
>> off zero.
>
> But at an extra cost for PBX kit and ISDN lines - Quote from original post 
> "Cash is tight"

If they are taking over an existing office then there are probably two 
physical lines (phone + fax) installed.  BT will convert these to ISDN 
(giving four channels IMO adequate), usually FoC.  There is the rental on 
two ISDN lines, and I suppose one could consider VOIP for one (or both), 
since they will probably want ADSL as well.  In this context I bring it in 
on an analog fax line and also this acts as the back up (in case BG dig up 
the ISDN cables).

>
> Also in the event of a PBX failure, using normal PSTN lines and the PBX's 
> mains/power fail arrangements, incoming and outgoing calls can still be 
> maintained.

PBX reliability, replacability and battery operation was discussed 
elsewhere, however one can get an ISDN line going on an ISDN phone in an 
total emergency.

>
> Don't forget we are talking about a charity office in a small rural town.
>
> Steve.
>