Hi,

My sister signed up for a BT business line since she runs a business
from her home. She recently fell ill and spent some time in hospital.
Since then her business is bringing in far less money and she's
decided that she can't justify having the line.

She was aware that BT would charge her a termination fee of (I think)
£130 which she was happy to pay but now they want to charge her the
full rental for a five year contract. It's something over £800 pounds
and are demanding it within 7 days.

Is this normal and can BT hold her to this length of contract?
Naturally, there was no mention of this when the people at BT
pursuaded her to take out the longer contract.

Hope somebody has the answer as this is driving us crazy with worry.
There's no way she can find £800 in seven days!

Thanks,

Sam.

My sister signed up for a BT business line since she runs a business
from her home. She recently fell ill and spent some time in hospital.
Since then her business is bringing in far less money and she's
decided that she can't justify having the line.

She was aware that BT would charge her a termination fee of (I think)
£130 which she was happy to pay but now they want to charge her the
full rental for a five year contract. It's something over £800 pounds
and are demanding it within 7 days.

Is this normal and can BT hold her to this length of contract?
Naturally, there was no mention of this when the people at BT
pursuaded her to take out the longer contract.

Hope somebody has the answer as this is driving us crazy with worry.
There's no way she can find £800 in seven days!


What does the contract that your sister signed say? Contracts have to be 
reasonable and a penalty such as this sounds unreasonable. BT May be 
entitled to the loss of profit but this would have to be after taking into 
account the fact that they would not incur many of the costs over five years 
if they were not providing the service.

Peter Crosland

On Jun 10, 4:39 pm, "Peter Crosland"  wrote:
> My sister signed up for a BT business line since she runs a business
> from her home. She recently fell ill and spent some time in hospital.
> Since then her business is bringing in far less money and she's
> decided that she can't justify having the line.
>
> She was aware that BT would charge her a termination fee of (I think)
> £130 which she was happy to pay but now they want to charge her the
> full rental for a five year contract. It's something over £800 pounds
> and are demanding it within 7 days.
>
> Is this normal and can BT hold her to this length of contract?
> Naturally, there was no mention of this when the people at BT
> pursuaded her to take out the longer contract.
>
> Hope somebody has the answer as this is driving us crazy with worry.
> There's no way she can find £800 in seven days!
>
> What does the contract that your sister signed say? Contracts have to be
> reasonable and a penalty such as this sounds unreasonable. BT May be
> entitled to the loss of profit but this would have to be after taking into> account the fact that they would not incur many of the costs over five years
> if they were not providing the service.
>
> Peter Crosland

Many thanks Peter. That's what I suspected. It's not that we don't
mind incurring the penalty charge but £800 just seems excessive.

Sam

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:48:50 -0700, samapeel passed an empty day by
writing:

> Hi,
> 
> My sister signed up for a BT business line since she runs a business
> from her home. She recently fell ill and spent some time in hospital.
> Since then her business is bringing in far less money and she's decided
> that she can't justify having the line.
> 
> She was aware that BT would charge her a termination fee of (I think)
> £130 which she was happy to pay but now they want to charge her the full
> rental for a five year contract. It's something over £800 pounds and are
> demanding it within 7 days.
> 
> Is this normal and can BT hold her to this length of contract?
> Naturally, there was no mention of this when the people at BT pursuaded
> her to take out the longer contract.
> 
> Hope somebody has the answer as this is driving us crazy with worry.
> There's no way she can find £800 in seven days!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sam.

It works like this Sam. They (mis)sell you a Featureline Compact and give 
you free installation - in return you sign a five year contract.

Is the contract 'unfair'? Well it could be argued that the penalty should 
be no more than the cost of the installation plus any balance on the 
remainder of a 12 (or minimum term) contract. After all, had you have 
ordered an ordinary business line and paid for installation that is all 
you would have had to pay. This may shed some light on it:

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:48:47 +0000, Klunk passed an empty day by writing:

> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:48:50 -0700, samapeel passed an empty day by
> writing:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> My sister signed up for a BT business line since she runs a business
>> from her home. She recently fell ill and spent some time in hospital.
>> Since then her business is bringing in far less money and she's decided
>> that she can't justify having the line.
>> 
>> She was aware that BT would charge her a termination fee of (I think)
>> £130 which she was happy to pay but now they want to charge her the
>> full rental for a five year contract. It's something over £800 pounds
>> and are demanding it within 7 days.
>> 
>> Is this normal and can BT hold her to this length of contract?
>> Naturally, there was no mention of this when the people at BT pursuaded
>> her to take out the longer contract.
>> 
>> Hope somebody has the answer as this is driving us crazy with worry.
>> There's no way she can find £800 in seven days!
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Sam.
> 
It works like this Sam. They (mis)sell you a Featureline Compact and give 
you free installation - in return you sign a five year contract.
 
Is the contract 'unfair'? Well it could be argued that the penalty should 
be no more than the cost of the installation plus any balance on the 
remainder of a 12 (or minimum term) contract. After all, had you have 
ordered an ordinary business line and paid for installation that is all 
you would have had to pay. This may shed some light on it:

http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free_legal_information/consumer_law/
consumf5.html

The rub is this, if you don't pay them they will bitch and whine for a 
bit. You will get the odd debt collectors letter. You write back and tell 
them the amount is disputed and ask them to take you to court. It never 
happens. Game over.

On Jun 10, 4:50 pm, Klunk  wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:48:47 퍍, Klunk passed an empty day by writing:
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:48:50 -0700, samapeel passed an empty day by
> > writing:
>
> >> Hi,
>
> >> My sister signed up for a BT business line since she runs a business
> >> from her home. She recently fell ill and spent some time in hospital.
> >> Since then her business is bringing in far less money and she's decided> >> that she can't justify having the line.
>
> >> She was aware that BT would charge her a termination fee of (I think)
> >> £130 which she was happy to pay but now they want to charge her the
> >> full rental for a five year contract. It's something over £800 pounds> >> and are demanding it within 7 days.
>
> >> Is this normal and can BT hold her to this length of contract?
> >> Naturally, there was no mention of this when the people at BT pursuaded> >> her to take out the longer contract.
>
> >> Hope somebody has the answer as this is driving us crazy with worry.
> >> There's no way she can find £800 in seven days!
>
> >> Thanks,
>
> >> Sam.
>
> It works like this Sam. They (mis)sell you a Featureline Compact and give
> you free installation - in return you sign a five year contract.
>
> Is the contract 'unfair'? Well it could be argued that the penalty should
> be no more than the cost of the installation plus any balance on the
> remainder of a 12 (or minimum term) contract. After all, had you have
> ordered an ordinary business line and paid for installation that is all
> you would have had to pay. This may shed some light on it:
>
> http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free_legal_information/consumer_law/
> consumf5.html
>
> The rub is this, if you don't pay them they will bitch and whine for a
> bit. You will get the odd debt collectors letter. You write back and tell
> them the amount is disputed and ask them to take you to court. It never
> happens. Game over.

Klunk,

That's really good of you. Thank you so much.

I think my sister was caught out by the (mis)selling tactics. She'll
take your advice. Though she's not happy with the idea of getting any
letters from debt collectors, she is willing to take this further and
to court if necessary.

I'm just disgusted that Ofcom don't stop this kind of bullyboy
tactics. It's like dealing with a local gangster.

Anyway, many thanks again,

Sam.

samapeel@yahoo.co.uk explained on 10/06/2008 :
> On Jun 10, 4:50 pm, Klunk  wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:48:47 +0000, Klunk passed an empty day by writing:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:48:50 -0700, samapeel passed an empty day by
>>> writing:
>> 
>>>> Hi,
>> 
>>>> My sister signed up for a BT business line since she runs a business
>>>> from her home. She recently fell ill and spent some time in hospital.
>>>> Since then her business is bringing in far less money and she's decided
>>>> that she can't justify having the line.
>>>> She was aware that BT would charge her a termination fee of (I think)
>>>> £130 which she was happy to pay but now they want to charge her the
>>>> full rental for a five year contract. It's something over £800 pounds
>>>> and are demanding it within 7 days.
>>>> Is this normal and can BT hold her to this length of contract?
>>>> Naturally, there was no mention of this when the people at BT pursuaded
>>>> her to take out the longer contract.
>>>> Hope somebody has the answer as this is driving us crazy with worry.
>>>> There's no way she can find £800 in seven days!
>>>> Thanks,
>> 
>>>> Sam.
>> 
>> It works like this Sam. They (mis)sell you a Featureline Compact and give
>> you free installation - in return you sign a five year contract.
>> 
>> Is the contract 'unfair'? Well it could be argued that the penalty should
>> be no more than the cost of the installation plus any balance on the
>> remainder of a 12 (or minimum term) contract. After all, had you have
>> ordered an ordinary business line and paid for installation that is all
>> you would have had to pay. This may shed some light on it:
>> 
>> http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free_legal_information/consumer_law/
>> consumf5.html
>> 
>> The rub is this, if you don't pay them they will bitch and whine for a
>> bit. You will get the odd debt collectors letter. You write back and tell
>> them the amount is disputed and ask them to take you to court. It never
>> happens. Game over.
>
> Klunk,
>
> That's really good of you. Thank you so much.
>
> I think my sister was caught out by the (mis)selling tactics. She'll
> take your advice. Though she's not happy with the idea of getting any
> letters from debt collectors, she is willing to take this further and
> to court if necessary.



Get the invoice put on hold.

Ring them up, explain that no-one at the business would knowingly sign 
a 5 year term agreement. State that at this point you are absolutely 
not refusing to pay it; however, in order for this matter to progress, 
they will need to supply a copy of the signed agreement.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:39:50 +0100, Jono passed an empty day by writing:

> samapeel@yahoo.co.uk explained on 10/06/2008 :
>> On Jun 10, 4:50 pm, Klunk  wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:48:47 +0000, Klunk passed an empty day by
>>> writing:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:48:50 -0700, samapeel passed an empty day by
>>>> writing:
>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>>>> My sister signed up for a BT business line since she runs a business
>>>>> from her home. She recently fell ill and spent some time in
>>>>> hospital. Since then her business is bringing in far less money and
>>>>> she's decided that she can't justify having the line. She was aware
>>>>> that BT would charge her a termination fee of (I think) £130 which
>>>>> she was happy to pay but now they want to charge her the full rental
>>>>> for a five year contract. It's something over £800 pounds and are
>>>>> demanding it within 7 days.
>>>>> Is this normal and can BT hold her to this length of contract?
>>>>> Naturally, there was no mention of this when the people at BT
>>>>> pursuaded her to take out the longer contract.
>>>>> Hope somebody has the answer as this is driving us crazy with worry.
>>>>> There's no way she can find £800 in seven days! Thanks,
>>> 
>>>>> Sam.
>>> 
>>> It works like this Sam. They (mis)sell you a Featureline Compact and
>>> give you free installation - in return you sign a five year contract.
>>> 
>>> Is the contract 'unfair'? Well it could be argued that the penalty
>>> should be no more than the cost of the installation plus any balance
>>> on the remainder of a 12 (or minimum term) contract. After all, had
>>> you have ordered an ordinary business line and paid for installation
>>> that is all you would have had to pay. This may shed some light on it:
>>> 
>>> http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free_legal_information/consumer_law/
>>> consumf5.html
>>> 
>>> The rub is this, if you don't pay them they will bitch and whine for a
>>> bit. You will get the odd debt collectors letter. You write back and
>>> tell them the amount is disputed and ask them to take you to court. It
>>> never happens. Game over.
>>
>> Klunk,
>>
>> That's really good of you. Thank you so much.
>>
>> I think my sister was caught out by the (mis)selling tactics. She'll
>> take your advice. Though she's not happy with the idea of getting any
>> letters from debt collectors, she is willing to take this further and
>> to court if necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> Get the invoice put on hold.
> 
> Ring them up, explain that no-one at the business would knowingly sign a
> 5 year term agreement. State that at this point you are absolutely not
> refusing to pay it; however, in order for this matter to progress, they
> will need to supply a copy of the signed agreement.

The unfair terms of contract *may* kick into effect on the terms of equal 
cancellation. Do they need to give you five years notice?

It is just my personal opinion that these FLC's were mis-sold. Meeting 
customers day in and day out most of them seemed amazed that the tie in 
was five years but all were aware of it. I think some of them then became 
three years. What was usually common was the fact they had been sold by 
third parties, usually 'BT Local Business' consultants working on 
commission.

The lengths people will go to to avoid the install fee is amazing.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:08:23 -0700 (PDT), samapeel@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

>I think my sister was caught out by the (mis)selling tactics. She'll
>take your advice. Though she's not happy with the idea of getting any
>letters from debt collectors, she is willing to take this further and
>to court if necessary.
>
>I'm just disgusted that Ofcom don't stop this kind of bullyboy
>tactics. It's like dealing with a local gangster.

While I deplore mis-selling and unfair contracts as much as anyone
else, didn't your sister read the contract before signing it?  I'm
just wondering why the termination charge came as a surprise.

Although this may not have happened here, I was told by a car dealer
recently that less than 1 in 100 customers actually read the contract
before signing it when ordering a new car.  It's amazing how trusting
people are!

Mike.

Mike expressed precisely :

>
> Although this may not have happened here, I was told by a car dealer
> recently that less than 1 in 100 customers actually read the contract
> before signing it when ordering a new car.  It's amazing how trusting
> people are!

Or lazy!

on 10/06/2008, samapeel@yahoo.co.uk supposed :
> Hi,
>
> My sister signed up for a BT business line since she runs a business
> from her home. She recently fell ill and spent some time in hospital.
> Since then her business is bringing in far less money and she's
> decided that she can't justify having the line.
>
> She was aware that BT would charge her a termination fee of (I think)
> £130 which she was happy to pay but now they want to charge her the
> full rental for a five year contract. It's something over £800 pounds
> and are demanding it within 7 days.
>
> Is this normal and can BT hold her to this length of contract?
> Naturally, there was no mention of this when the people at BT
> pursuaded her to take out the longer contract.
>
> Hope somebody has the answer as this is driving us crazy with worry.
> There's no way she can find £800 in seven days!

I wonder what she's signed up for - the termination charges for a 
standard line is usually along the lines of remaining number of months 
of first year plus 20% of the remainder

See 
<http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/public/current/Exch_Lines_boo/0002_d0e63.htm#0002-d0e63>

Has she signed up to the BT Business Plan which commits her to a 
certain call spend in addition to a LTC on her line...?

That said, I thought the longest term on a regular line was 24 months - 
does she have a featureline? (does she have to dial 9 to ring anyone?)

On Jun 10, 9:57 pm, Jono <notha...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote:
> on 10/06/2008, samap...@yahoo.co.uk supposed :
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > My sister signed up for a BT business line since she runs a business
> > from her home. She recently fell ill and spent some time in hospital.
> > Since then her business is bringing in far less money and she's
> > decided that she can't justify having the line.
>
> > She was aware that BT would charge her a termination fee of (I think)
> > £130 which she was happy to pay but now they want to charge her the
> > full rental for a five year contract. It's something over £800 pounds
> > and are demanding it within 7 days.
>
> > Is this normal and can BT hold her to this length of contract?
> > Naturally, there was no mention of this when the people at BT
> > pursuaded her to take out the longer contract.
>
> > Hope somebody has the answer as this is driving us crazy with worry.
> > There's no way she can find £800 in seven days!
>
> I wonder what she's signed up for - the termination charges for a
> standard line is usually along the lines of remaining number of months
> of first year plus 20% of the remainder
>
> See
> <http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/public/current/Exch_Lines_boo/0002...>> Has she signed up to the BT Business Plan which commits her to a
> certain call spend in addition to a LTC on her line...?
>
> That said, I thought the longest term on a regular line was 24 months -
> does she have a featureline? (does she have to dial 9 to ring anyone?)

Yes, she has to ring 9 to dial out. I'll check on the contract more
fully tomorrow (Wednesday) and get back to you.

Thanks again for all the help and advice, much appreciated.

Sam