An elderly relative was fed up of paying the 18 pound monthly
maintenance charges for her British Gas alarm system, and asked to have
the system disconnected. 

The disconnection by British Gas comprised disconnecting the power from
the system, and letting the backup batteries run down while the alarm
bells sounded!

I disconnected the telephone connection from the control box, but the
phones in the house then went dead. I disconnected the bottom bit of the
BT master socket and plugged in a phone to the test socket, but this was
also dead. Reconnecting the wires to the alarm control box got the phone
working again.

I have not seen this configuration before, since I know one is not
supposed to mess round with the phone connections before the BT master
socket, but how do I disconnect the alarm system while allowing the
phones to continue working. 

It would appear that the phone line loops through to the alarm system
control box before being patched through to the master socket, but I
can't see how this could be done. In the alarm box there are four cores
from a wire labelled BT, and I wondered whether two were going in and
two going out, but patching them together didn't seem to get the phone
service working (IIRC the wires were orange + orange/white and blue +
blue/white).

Ideally BT could sort this out, but at a callout cost of over 100
pounds, this is difficult.

Any ideas?

"Mark Ingle"  wrote in message 
news:1ih3srf.1j4emzt17uu0gqN%markinglenospam@nospamfastmail.fm...
> An elderly relative was fed up of paying the 18 pound monthly
> maintenance charges for her British Gas alarm system, and asked to have
> the system disconnected.
>
> The disconnection by British Gas comprised disconnecting the power from
> the system, and letting the backup batteries run down while the alarm
> bells sounded!
>
> I disconnected the telephone connection from the control box, but the
> phones in the house then went dead. I disconnected the bottom bit of the
> BT master socket and plugged in a phone to the test socket, but this was
> also dead. Reconnecting the wires to the alarm control box got the phone
> working again.
>
> I have not seen this configuration before, since I know one is not
> supposed to mess round with the phone connections before the BT master
> socket, but how do I disconnect the alarm system while allowing the
> phones to continue working.
>
> It would appear that the phone line loops through to the alarm system
> control box before being patched through to the master socket, but I
> can't see how this could be done. In the alarm box there are four cores
> from a wire labelled BT, and I wondered whether two were going in and
> two going out, but patching them together didn't seem to get the phone
> service working (IIRC the wires were orange + orange/white and blue +
> blue/white).
>
> Ideally BT could sort this out, but at a callout cost of over 100
> pounds, this is difficult.
>
> Any ideas?

When you removed the cable from the alarm panel, were the wires touching 
each other?

When you disconnect the bottom faceplate from the main BT socket, call your 
number from a mobile - is your number busy?

Remove the top part of the BT master socket - are there 2 different cables 
attached to the screw connections?

Find the point where the phone cable enters your house - there should only 
be 1 cable out from there and it should go directly to your master socket.

HTH, Ali

> Find the point where the phone cable enters your house - there should only
> be 1 cable out from there and it should go directly to your master socket.

It may be connected to a junction box first.
How old is the alarm, when was it installed?
The best way would be to trace the cable from where it enters the
house.
If you have a junction box then you should see one cable coming from
the street and one leading to your master socket, check to see if
there are two cables connected on the connectors.

--
http://technicianspot.blogspot.com/

Many thanks for your reply

"Zomaar" <spammers can FO@die> wrote:

> When you removed the cable from the alarm panel, were the wires touching
> each other?
> 
No, I made sure that the wires were not touching.

> When you disconnect the bottom faceplate from the main BT socket, call your
> number from a mobile - is your number busy?

Unfortunately I didn't try this at the time.
> 
> Remove the top part of the BT master socket - are there 2 different cables
> attached to the screw connections?

This is the odd bit. I did remove the whole BT faceplate, and there were
three sets of wires, two coming from different directions from the
inside (one had black insulation, and the other white). The third one
was mounted on the surface but DID NOT plug into the removable bottom
faceplate; this was the wire that went to the alarm. Also behind the
faceplate were two wires connected with those plastic connectors with
oil in them. At the time I thought this was rather odd because one would
normally just patch through the wire through the Krone connection.

Thinking about it, I now suspect that the main phone line going in would
be the one with black insulation since that type of cable tends to be
used for external wiring; perhaps rather than going straight into the
master socket, the cable was patched (with the two cable connectors) to
the alarm, then back again into the master socket? She has got an
extension cable upstairs which may explain the third set of wire coming
in.

Unfortunately I was so baffled by the cable configuration at the time
that I did not think of taking photos of it or tracing the colours of
the wires from the alarm panel which would have been useful.

Apparently, when the upstairs extension was fitted by BT, the engineer
commented that the cabling was done 'upside down' or something to that
effect.
> 
> Find the point where the phone cable enters your house - there should only
> be 1 cable out from there and it should go directly to your master socket.
> 
It is a relatively new build so apart from the wiring to the alarm panel
which is tacked onto the wall, everything else is concealed.

On Sat, 17 May 2008 21:34:32 +0100, markinglenospam@nospamfastmail.fm
(Mark Ingle) wrote:

>An elderly relative was fed up of paying the 18 pound monthly
>maintenance charges for her British Gas alarm system, and asked to have
>the system disconnected. 
>
>The disconnection by British Gas comprised disconnecting the power from
>the system, and letting the backup batteries run down while the alarm
>bells sounded!
Shouldn't BG have returned the phone installation to the state in
which they found it if so why didn't they ?give them a call and
chapter and verse when they answer I know I would .

mymail@hotmail.com wrote:

> Shouldn't BG have returned the phone installation to the state in
> which they found it if so why didn't they ?give them a call and
> chapter and verse when they answer I know I would .  

Good luck, I was unfortunate enough to have to work for 
British Gas when they were promoting their shitty alarms, they 
closed the entire alarm centre down and transferred it to the 
central heating office, so now, loads of advisers who know 
nothing about alarms have to answer questions on them, they 
use a program for fault finding which is broken most of the time.

When I worked there they only had 5 alarm engineers for the 
entire country, when someone wanted a service doing on their 
alarm which was part of their contract they used to send out 
the heating engineers "To do the best they could"

Steer well clear.

-- 
xCx
*Disclaimer*  My opinions are mine and I do not represent 
anyone or any company.

On Sat, 17 May 2008 23:56:26 +0100, xCx  wrote:


>When I worked there they only had 5 alarm engineers for the 
>entire country, when someone wanted a service doing on their 
>alarm which was part of their contract they used to send out 
>the heating engineers "To do the best they could"
>
>Steer well clear.
Wouldn't have anybodies alarm installed here short row of five
terraced houses three are alarmed four businesses the other side of
the street each alarmed and we are guaranteed to be woken in the
middle of the night by two of them each and every month for no good
reason.
You ring the police and the stupid bitches in the police call center
say it will stop in twenty minutes sir !! . Does it really matter how
long it takes for them to stop once the damn things have woken you up
at 1,2,3 in a morning !!, then they say have you seen anyone around
sir? how stupid of them to have expected me or anyone else to have
rushed  out into the street in boxer shorts and nothing else on a cold
winters night "looking to see if anyone is about"before ringing them .

On Sun, 18 May 2008 00:11:42 UTC, mymail@hotmail.com wrote:

> Wouldn't have anybodies alarm installed here short row of five
> terraced houses three are alarmed four businesses the other side of
> the street each alarmed and we are guaranteed to be woken in the
> middle of the night by two of them each and every month for no good
> reason.
> You ring the police and the stupid bitches in the police call center
> say it will stop in twenty minutes sir !! . Does it really matter how
> long it takes for them to stop once the damn things have woken you up
> at 1,2,3 in a morning !!, then they say have you seen anyone around
> sir? how stupid of them to have expected me or anyone else to have
> rushed  out into the street in boxer shorts and nothing else on a cold
> winters night "looking to see if anyone is about"before ringing them .

Yes, Ron.
-- 
Bob Eager
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

mymail@hotmail.com wrote:

> rushed  out into the street in boxer shorts and nothing else on a cold
> winters night "looking to see if anyone is about"before ringing them .

Whilst I don't agree with a lot of your posts, I do agree with 
this one, just tell them you *think* you've seen someone about 
or heard what sounds like a broken window.  Why do their job 
for them, I hate the damn police, lazy bastards, unless it's 
sitting ducks like motorists they're not interested.
-- 
xCx
*Disclaimer*  My opinions are mine and I do not represent 
anyone or any company.

Mark Ingle wrote:
> Many thanks for your reply
> 
> "Zomaar" <spammers can FO@die> wrote:
> 
>> When you removed the cable from the alarm panel, were the wires touching
>> each other?
>>
> No, I made sure that the wires were not touching.
> 
>> When you disconnect the bottom faceplate from the main BT socket, call your
>> number from a mobile - is your number busy?
> 
> Unfortunately I didn't try this at the time.
>> Remove the top part of the BT master socket - are there 2 different cables
>> attached to the screw connections?
> 
> This is the odd bit. I did remove the whole BT faceplate, and there were
> three sets of wires, two coming from different directions from the
> inside (one had black insulation, and the other white). The third one
> was mounted on the surface but DID NOT plug into the removable bottom
> faceplate; this was the wire that went to the alarm. Also behind the
> faceplate were two wires connected with those plastic connectors with
> oil in them. At the time I thought this was rather odd because one would
> normally just patch through the wire through the Krone connection.
> 
> Thinking about it, I now suspect that the main phone line going in would
> be the one with black insulation since that type of cable tends to be
> used for external wiring; perhaps rather than going straight into the
> master socket, the cable was patched (with the two cable connectors) to
> the alarm, then back again into the master socket? She has got an
> extension cable upstairs which may explain the third set of wire coming
> in.
> 
> Unfortunately I was so baffled by the cable configuration at the time
> that I did not think of taking photos of it or tracing the colours of
> the wires from the alarm panel which would have been useful.
> 
> Apparently, when the upstairs extension was fitted by BT, the engineer
> commented that the cabling was done 'upside down' or something to that
> effect.
>> Find the point where the phone cable enters your house - there should only
>> be 1 cable out from there and it should go directly to your master socket.
>>
> It is a relatively new build so apart from the wiring to the alarm panel
> which is tacked onto the wall, everything else is concealed.

It's not uncommon for alarm connections to go before 
the Master socket, to make it harder to disconnect the 
alarm, whether accidentally or deliberately.  I think 
you've probably diagnosed the wiring correctly - the 
original external cable pair has been intercepted by 
the cable to the alarm, with the return pair being 
connected to the Master socket A/B terminals. 
Simplest fix would be to disconnect the alarm cable 
and re-connect the incoming pair (usually 
orange/white) to A and B.

"xCx"  wrote in message 
news:69964nF316umuU1@mid.individual.net...
> mymail@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Shouldn't BG have returned the phone installation to the state in
>> which they found it if so why didn't they ?give them a call and
>> chapter and verse when they answer I know I would .
>
> Good luck, I was unfortunate enough to have to work for British Gas when 
> they were promoting their shitty alarms, they closed the entire alarm 
> centre down and transferred it to the central heating office, so now, 
> loads of advisers who know nothing about alarms have to answer questions 
> on them, they use a program for fault finding which is broken most of the 
> time.
>
> When I worked there they only had 5 alarm engineers for the entire 
> country, when someone wanted a service doing on their alarm which was part 
> of their contract they used to send out the heating engineers "To do the 
> best they could"
>
> Steer well clear.
>
> -- 
> xCx
> *Disclaimer*  My opinions are mine and I do not represent anyone or any 
> company.

CORGI registered phone and alarm engineers now, lolol

On Sun, 18 May 2008 10:16:01 +0100, xCx  wrote:


>Whilst I don't agree with a lot of your posts, I do agree with 
>this one, just tell them you *think* you've seen someone about 
>or heard what sounds like a broken window.  Why do their job 
>for them, 
The thing that annoys me about the police is that they just do not
seem to use their brains , if I call them and tell them that someone
is having the life kicked out of them in the middle of the night when
hardly anyone is on the roads around these parts they have to come 
running with sirens blasting out and headlights flashing . Could this
be to alert the offenders to give them time to run away I wonder ? .
This happened about ten years ago now the guy next door was getting
hell kicked out of him out in the street by a bunch of yobs I called
the police and I could here the police coming all right who couldn't
with all the noise they where making but from " hearing" them to
"seeing" them in the street a good three minutes must have elapsed
in which time the bastards fled .    
>I hate the damn police, lazy bastards, unless it's 
>sitting ducks like motorists they're not interested.
Surly some of the "sitting ducks" that you speak of NEED to be caught
and prosecuted otherwise there would be many more of us pushing up
the daises at this very moment .
I don't hate the police I think they do a damn good job under
difficult circumstances it is our law makers that I hate every day
they are doing their best to make life easier for the criminal by
conjuring up new get out laws for them and it is fuck the victims of
crime they don't matter .
Has I have mentioned earlier there must be some rule or other which
says that the police attending an assault incident no matter the time
of day must attend with all guns blazing making enough noise to wake
the dead to give the offender a decent chance to get away !!!!! .

mymail@hotmail.com wrote:

> Has I have mentioned earlier there must be some rule or other which
> says that the police attending an assault incident no matter the time
> of day must attend with all guns blazing making enough noise to wake
> the dead to give the offender a decent chance to get away !!!!! .  

Even if they physically see them, from a distance they yell out Oy, as 
in The Bill, in almost every episode. The young yobs, look up and run 
run off. By the time they get to the corner, Tony Stamp has caught up 
with them, as if.  ;-)

Kevin Martin


-- 
To Reply, delete what is "Not Required" in abbreviated form

On Mon, 19 May 2008 00:31:42 +1000, Kevin Martin
 wrote:

>mymail@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Has I have mentioned earlier there must be some rule or other which
>> says that the police attending an assault incident no matter the time
>> of day must attend with all guns blazing making enough noise to wake
>> the dead to give the offender a decent chance to get away !!!!! .  
>
>Even if they physically see them, from a distance they yell out Oy, as 
>in The Bill, in almost every episode. The young yobs, look up and run 
>run off. By the time they get to the corner, Tony Stamp has caught up 
>with them, as if.  ;-)
>
>Kevin Martin

They have to try their best to let them get away Kevin and to be quite
honest looking at it from THEIR point of view I don't blame them
knowing that most times when I came on duty for a 8/12 hr shift I
would finish up spending 1-2 hrs of the shift pen pushing instead of
arresting young yobs . Another point being it really is time our
magistrates stopped being such do gooders and started dishing out
appropriate punishments to fit the crime committed. Not sending them
to young offenders institutions for six months with 50% to be served
in the community and when the little scrote appeals against sentence
the magistrates cut the sentence to a bloody month with 21 days served
in the community. This is what happened to the little 14 year old
BASTARD that threw a can of paint over my car a couple of years ago he
should have been awarded at least six strokes of the birch not six
months inside but you only need to do a week inside as was the outcome
. 
I think it would only take a couple of em to face and feel a birching
to stop quite a lot of the young offenders in their tracks and make
them think again before doing anything , but it will never happen of
course the do gooders who live in big mansions with 12 walls round
their properties in our society would see to that.

wrote in message 
news:l6su24ttf9igmifvc13pkhmaekh508cbu1@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 May 2008 23:56:26 +0100, xCx  wrote:
>
>
>>When I worked there they only had 5 alarm engineers for the
>>entire country, when someone wanted a service doing on their
>>alarm which was part of their contract they used to send out
>>the heating engineers "To do the best they could"
>>
>>Steer well clear.
> Wouldn't have anybodies alarm installed here short row of five
> terraced houses three are alarmed four businesses the other side of
> the street each alarmed and we are guaranteed to be woken in the
> middle of the night by two of them each and every month for no good
> reason.
> You ring the police and the stupid bitches in the police call center
> say it will stop in twenty minutes sir !! . Does it really matter how
> long it takes for them to stop once the damn things have woken you up
> at 1,2,3 in a morning !!, then they say have you seen anyone around
> sir? how stupid of them to have expected me or anyone else to have
> rushed  out into the street in boxer shorts and nothing else on a cold
> winters night "looking to see if anyone is about"before ringing them .

Lady I know was driving home about 11pm and came across a body in the lane. 
Not being willing to get out of her car, she rang the police on her mobile.
Guess what was the first question !!!
"Can you tell me its ethnic origin and sex please"
Fortunately another motorist came along and it turned out to be the local 
drunk, who was lucky not to have been killed. She never heard from the 
police.

Retired

On Sun, 18 May 2008 20:32:35 +0100, "Retired" 
wrote:

>Lady I know was driving home about 11pm and came across a body in the lane. 
>Not being willing to get out of her car, she rang the police on her mobile.
>Guess what was the first question !!!
>"Can you tell me its ethnic origin and sex please"
>Fortunately another motorist came along and it turned out to be the local 
>drunk, who was lucky not to have been killed. She never heard from the 
>police.

You see just like most broadband tech support personnel police call
center people ask questions that are set out on a sheet for them and
also give out answers from the same sheet and woe betide any person
who calls for help who deviates from the set questions .
Last weekend we where plagued by brainless numskulls setting of
fireworks till well gone midnight sat and sun, on my first call of
many to the police I gave them more or less the location of where the
problem was occurring I could not see the offending property fully due
to trees and hedges obscuring my view . Then the question was asked
can you see anyone moving about !!! ha ha NO but there must be someone
moving about otherwise the works would not be going of now would they
! .
This country is really getting to be a huge joke today we have ex Lord
chief justice Woofe saying to many people are being sent to prison, my
God what does he want criminals to be given first class suites in the
London Hilton or something ? .

wrote in message 
news:p86134l0vfb9css38jhr3397i6tp4o6mts@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 20:32:35 +0100, "Retired" 
> wrote:
<snip>
> This country is really getting to be a huge joke today we have ex Lord
> chief justice Woofe saying to many people are being sent to prison, my
> God what does he want criminals to be given first class suites in the
> London Hilton or something ? .
>
That's why the Gov don't want to send criminals to prison, the cost.

It would be cheaper to put them up a top hotel, The European courts
won't let European Govs make their prisoners work for their keep,
like they do in say the USA.

Making imprisoning criminals a liability on the taxpayer, and as it's the
Treasury that really runs the country, they aren't going to spend money on 
the problem.

Steve Terry

In article <g0qbks$e4a$1@news.albasani.net>, Steve Terry
 scribeth thus
>
> wrote in message 
>news:p86134l0vfb9css38jhr3397i6tp4o6mts@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 18 May 2008 20:32:35 +0100, "Retired" 
>> wrote:
><snip>
>> This country is really getting to be a huge joke today we have ex Lord
>> chief justice Woofe saying to many people are being sent to prison, my
>> God what does he want criminals to be given first class suites in the
>> London Hilton or something ? .
>>
>That's why the Gov don't want to send criminals to prison, the cost.
>
>It would be cheaper to put them up a top hotel, The European courts
>won't let European Govs make their prisoners work for their keep,
>like they do in say the USA.
>

Well I'd vote for the party that does.. like a 15 year old toe rag the
other week who not only took a car and drove it at over a 100 MPH in a
residential area and put the lives of others at serious risk, then
smashed it into several other cars. 

Should be set to work to pay for the damage the prat caused!.

And to compensate the inconvenience caused to the other car owners....

-- 
Tony Sayer

On Sun, 18 May 2008 23:46:11 +0100, "Steve Terry" 
wrote:


>It would be cheaper to put them up a top hotel, The European courts
>won't let European Govs make their prisoners work for their keep,
>like they do in say the USA.

There was a documentary on TV a few years ago that I saw regarding
jails in Holland and compared with what we see on TV regarding our
jails the ones in Holland are of top hotel standards .Bringing back
hanging would help to reduce our prison population especially for the
likes of Shipman (who is now dead of course) and many others .

mymail@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 23:46:11 +0100, "Steve Terry" 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> It would be cheaper to put them up a top hotel, The European courts
>> won't let European Govs make their prisoners work for their keep,
>> like they do in say the USA.
> 
> There was a documentary on TV a few years ago that I saw regarding
> jails in Holland and compared with what we see on TV regarding our
> jails the ones in Holland are of top hotel standards .Bringing back
> hanging would help to reduce our prison population especially for the
> likes of Shipman (who is now dead of course) and many others . 

I find myself agreeing with you again, if there's no real 
deterrent then what's going to stop them?  Obviously hanging 
should be saved for the violent crimes but the least they 
should do when in prison is be made to work, I was under the 
impression they had workshops and laundries etc, maybe I 
watched too much cell block H?

-- 
xCx
*Disclaimer*  My opinions are mine and I do not represent 
anyone or any company.

xCx wrote 
 on Mon, 19 May 2008 12:40:43 +0100 in message  
 : 

>mymail@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 May 2008 23:46:11 +0100, "Steve Terry" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> It would be cheaper to put them up a top hotel, The European courts
>>> won't let European Govs make their prisoners work for their keep,
>>> like they do in say the USA.
>> 
>> There was a documentary on TV a few years ago that I saw regarding
>> jails in Holland and compared with what we see on TV regarding our
>> jails the ones in Holland are of top hotel standards .Bringing back
>> hanging would help to reduce our prison population especially for the
>> likes of Shipman (who is now dead of course) and many others . 
>
>I find myself agreeing with you again, if there's no real 
>deterrent then what's going to stop them?  Obviously hanging 
>should be saved for the violent crimes but the least they 
>should do when in prison is be made to work, I was under the 
>impression they had workshops and laundries etc, maybe I 
>watched too much cell block H?


Yes, they have workshops various industries even sewing bags, though not
mail bags, but washing bags, they have laundry too.  There's education also.

You can't refuse to do work, if you are not of retirement age, then if there
is space available you must work.

Jim  wrote:

> Simplest fix would be to disconnect the alarm cable 
> and re-connect the incoming pair (usually 
> orange/white) to A and B.

Thanks; I'll try that when I next go.

Steve Terry  wrote 

> That's why the Gov don't want to send criminals to prison, the cost.
 
> It would be cheaper to put them up a top hotel, The European courts
> won't let European Govs make their prisoners work for their keep,
> like they do in say the USA.

Usual legend, who did we blame in the old days ?

(Art 4 ECHR 3 For the purpose of this article the term "forced or
compulsory labour" shall not include:  any work required to be done in
the ordinary course of detention [...] or during conditional release
from such detention;)

In fact the problem is due to American do-gooderism dating back to
1940, there is a treaty restricting international (and in the US
interstate) trade in goods produced by prison labour as Soviet Gulags.
Hence the mailbags (car license plates in the US).
The Trade Unions also objected to the cheap labour and indeed today
they object to "community service" criminals doing anything except what
their members don't want to do.

Since there are now private prisons, "hotels", top or otherwise, can
bid for contracts.
 
> Making imprisoning criminals a liability on the taxpayer, and as it's
the
> Treasury that really runs the country, they aren't going to spend
money on 
> the problem.


-- 
Mike D