This past night, the south bore of the Channel tunnel was reopened 
for traffic. Both freight trains and Eurostar passenger trains operate
at a reduced schedule. 

  The north bore remains shut for some time. The two crossovers in the
tunnel could be used later to reduce the single-track to the section 
where the fire occured, I guess. 

  See 
> <http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcCorporate/ukcTheGroup/ukcFocusOn/ukpFocusOn.htm>


Cheers, 
L.W.

On 13 Sep, 10:03, "Lüko Willms" <l.wil...@domain.invalid> wrote:
>   This past night, the south bore of the Channel tunnel was reopened
> for traffic. Both freight trains and Eurostar passenger trains operate
> at a reduced schedule.
>
>   The north bore remains shut for some time. The two crossovers in the
> tunnel could be used later to reduce the single-track to the section
> where the fire occured, I guess.
>
>   See
>
> > <http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcCorporate/ukcTheGroup/ukcFocus.Information from Eurostar regarding alterations to their services:

---<quote>---
Fire in Channel Tunnel - Latest update

Eurostar has today resumed a limited service through the Channel
Tunnel. Trains are operating through the single tunnel that is
unaffected by the fire.

Eurostar is operating a temporary, reduced timetable. It expects to
run up to 12 trains each way between London and Paris, up to six
trains each way between London and Brussels, and the daily service
each way between London and Disneyland Resort Paris. Trains will also
serve Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International and Lille.

Ticket holders should turn up at the normal time for their scheduled
service, and Eurostar will seek to accommodate them on the first
available train. This is likely to mean longer than normal waiting
times before departure. Journey times will also be longer than normal.

Inevitably, there will be further alterations to this limited
timetable, as Eurostar adjusts its services to match the reduced
tunnel capacity.

Eurostar will continue to liaise closely with Eurotunnel, the operator
of the Channel Tunnel, in order to seek to provide a reliable service
for travellers.

In the meantime, Eurostar thanks travellers for their patience while
all efforts are made to provide further improvements to the service.
---</quote>---

Source:
http://eurostar-en.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/eurostar_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3772

On 13 Sep, 10:03, "Lüko Willms" <l.wil...@domain.invalid> wrote:
>   This past night, the south bore of the Channel tunnel was reopened
> for traffic. Both freight trains and Eurostar passenger trains operate
> at a reduced schedule.
>
>   The north bore remains shut for some time. The two crossovers in the
> tunnel could be used later to reduce the single-track to the section
> where the fire occured, I guess.
>
>   See
>
> > <http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcCorporate/ukcTheGroup/ukcFocus.Just to clarify Lüko's comments, "freight trains" in this instance
means the freight shuttle service for trucks. As regular uk.r readers
will be aware, unfortunately there are only a few regular container
freight trains that use the channel tunnel these days (and so
presumably slots will be found for them to traverse the chunnel).

The link in Lüko's post above is to a timeline of events (URL repeated
below):
http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcCorporate/ukcTheGroup/ukcFocusOn/ukpFocusOn.htm

Meanwhile here's a Eurotunnel webpage which pronounces that "Our
Freight shuttle service has now resumed and can be used normally":
http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcFreight/ukphome.htm


The Eurotunnel car and coach shuttle meanwhile isn't operating at all
this weekend - returning customers can travel back on ferries between
Calais and Dover, outgoing customers are being offered refunds or
rebookings). The services isn't going to be up and running until
Monday, and then only in a *very* limited manner with one departure
every two hours.

See:
http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcPassengers/ukcCompanyContactUs/ukpTravelInfo.htm

Excerpts from the above page:
---<quote>---
Travel information for Monday 15 and Tuesday 16 September

Our Passenger Service will be severely disrupted on Monday 15 and
Tuesday 16 September. There will be a limited service available with
only one departure every two hours. To avoid severe disruptions to
your journey, we therefore strongly recommend that you make
alternative travel arrangements. Should you decide to maintain your
booking with us, please expect a disruptive service and severe delays.

To request a refund please send an email to sales [dot] support [at]
eurotunnel [dot] com stating your name, address and booking reference
number.

To rebook your travel for an alternative date, please call our
Customer Contact Centre on 08705 35 35 35.

Travel information for Wednesday 17 to Friday 19 September

There will be a limited service available. Please check our website
for further updates.
---</quote>---

"Mizter T"  wrote
>
>Just to clarify Lüko's comments, "freight trains" in this instance
>means the freight shuttle service for trucks. As regular uk.r readers
>will be aware, unfortunately there are only a few regular container
>freight trains that use the channel tunnel these days (and so
>presumably slots will be found for them to traverse the chunnel).

It seems that the first two revenue-earning trains through teh tunnel after
it reopened were through railway freights.

Peter

In message 
, at 
06:52:28 on Sat, 13 Sep 2008, Mizter T  remarked:
>please expect a disruptive service and severe delays.

Freudian slip there. Presumably they mean a "disrupted service".
-- 
Roland Perry

In message , at 15:37:00 on 
Sat, 13 Sep 2008, Peter Masson  remarked:
>It seems that the first two revenue-earning trains through teh tunnel after
>it reopened were through railway freights.

Makes sense. Very few people on such a "pathfinder" train.
-- 
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry"  wrote in message
news:JDFDFCzXA+yIFAbI@perry.co.uk...
> In message
> , at
> 06:52:28 on Sat, 13 Sep 2008, Mizter T  remarked:
> >please expect a disruptive service and severe delays.
>
> Freudian slip there. Presumably they mean a "disrupted service".

Probably also disruptive to their customers' travel plans.

Peter

In message , at 17:00:26 on 
Sat, 13 Sep 2008, Peter Masson  remarked:
>> >please expect a disruptive service and severe delays.
>>
>> Freudian slip there. Presumably they mean a "disrupted service".
>
>Probably also disruptive to their customers' travel plans.

Yes, but you don't normally want to say so quite as blatantly.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Sep 13, 5:30 pm, Roland Perry  wrote:
> In message , at 17:00:26 on
> Sat, 13 Sep 2008, Peter Masson  remarked:
>
> >> >please expect a disruptive service and severe delays.
>
> >> Freudian slip there. Presumably they mean a "disrupted service".
>
> >Probably also disruptive to their customers' travel plans.
>
> Yes, but you don't normally want to say so quite as blatantly.
> --
> Roland Perry


Here's a question...   suppose I had a through non-changeable ticket
from London to Avignon
changing at Lille next week, and that there was only 1 train a day
from Lille to Avignon, specially
designed to connect with the midday Eurostar arrival.
Suppose further that the train gets to Lille 3 hours late or something
thanks to the fire.  Now I
know CIV rules state that if there's a delay, the onward ticket is
valid on the next available
train.  But what happens if the next available train from Lille is the
following day, but a better
connection would be available to me via Paris with the hourly TGV.
Would my ticket be
valid on the Lille->Paris segment of the Eurostar, and on a TGV from
Paris?


Phil

On 13 Sep, 14:52, Mizter T  wrote:

> On 13 Sep, 10:03, "Lüko Willms" <l.wil...@domain.invalid> wrote:
>
> >   This past night, the south bore of the Channel tunnel was reopened
> > for traffic. Both freight trains and Eurostar passenger trains operate
> > at a reduced schedule.
>
> (snip)
>
> Just to clarify Lüko's comments, "freight trains" in this instance
> means the freight shuttle service for trucks.


Whilst on the topic of clarification, it is perhaps worth noting the
various terminology in use here and considering the potential for
subsequent confusion - which may well be apparent on news and/or
travel bulletins (indeed I think I may have spotted this already in
what I've seen and heard!).

Eurotunnel refers to the truck carrying shuttle services as "Freight
shuttles", although the website also more generally just refers to the
"Eurotunnel Freight" service. The timeline page refers to the
Eurotunnel Truck Shuttle*

The timeline page meanwhile refers to "rail freight trains", which are
just that - conventional freight trains (containers, car carriers
etc), no trucks are involved at all (for the benefit of the pedants
out there - at least not until said containers get unloaded at the
other end!).

Confusingly Eurotunnel refers to the shuttle service for cars, vans,
motorbikes, minibuses and coaches as the "Eurotunnel Passenger
Service", though the timeline page also refers to it as the
"Eurotunnel Passenger Shuttle service", and elsewhere it is also
commonly referred to as the "tourist shuttle" (though not by
Eurotunnel). In this instance even if you are the driver (of the car),
you are still a passenger (of the shuttle). And also, this is a
passenger service that doesn't take foot passengers!

I say confusingly above because when "passenger service" is mentioned
many people will automatically think of the Eurostar passenger train
service.

And of course there is the ever so common confusion (perhaps not here
on uk.r but certainly out in the real world) between Eurotunnel and
Eurostar. Originally, perhaps in a bid to ward off such confusion
Eurotunnel did used to brand their vehicle shuttle services (both car
and truck) as "Le Shuttle" - but that was dropped as apparently it
confused the French! Perhaps Eurostar should've chosen a different
name... but I do like the name as it is, what with the starry-eyed
allusion to the Flag of Europe and all. Perhaps at the least
Eurotunnel could uniformly refer to its shuttle services as
"Eurotunnel shuttles".

I'm certainly unsure of precisely what is going on when a short news
bulletin refers to the fact that passenger and freight trains have
resumed in the channel tunnel - which passenger service (Eurostar or
car shuttle), and which freight trains (freight shuttle or
conventional rail freight) I ask myself?!

However given the potential for confusion with Eurotunnel's choice of
terminology, perhaps one can forgive some vagueness in reporting from
some journalists who aren't au fait with the details of the channel
tunnel's operations.

-----
* The timeline page I refer to above is here:
http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcCorporate/ukcTheGroup/ukcFocusOn/ukpFocusOn.htm

Am Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:37:24 UTC,  schrieb Mizter T 
  auf uk.railway :

> I'm certainly unsure of precisely what is going on when a short news
> bulletin refers to the fact that passenger and freight trains have
> resumed in the channel tunnel - which passenger service (Eurostar or
> car shuttle), and which freight trains (freight shuttle or
> conventional rail freight) I ask myself?!

   No shuttles yet, only thru freight and passenger trains. 


Cheers, 
L.W.

"Lüko Willms" <l.willms@domain.invalid> wrote
>
>    No shuttles yet, only thru freight and passenger trains.
>
Through railways freight and Eurostar passenger services, and the truck
shuttles, have resumed. The car/coach tourist shuttles haven't resumed yet,
but a very limited service is expected to start on Monday.

Peter

PhilG  wrote:
> Here's a question...   suppose I had a through non-changeable ticket from
> London to Avignon changing at Lille next week, and that there was only 1
> train a day from Lille to Avignon, specially designed to connect with the
> midday Eurostar arrival. Suppose further that the train gets to Lille 3
> hours late or something thanks to the fire.  Now I know CIV rules state
> that if there's a delay, the onward ticket is valid on the next available
> train.  But what happens if the next available train from Lille is the
> following day, but a better connection would be available to me via Paris
> with the hourly TGV. Would my ticket be valid on the Lille->Paris segment
> of the Eurostar, and on a TGV from Paris?

And a related question.  Let's say I had a series of onward non-changeable
tickets which had been booked separately.  For example Brussels-Amsterdam,
Amsterdam-Frankfurt, Frankfurt-Milan, Milan-Bari, ferry to Patras,
Patras-Athens.  Would CIV rules allow me to take the next available service
for each of these legs, even though I booked them all separately?  (It'd be
almost impossible to book them together I imagine - even if I used an agent
they'd use lots of different systems to book).

Would the ferry (which gives free passage on Interrail) be covered by CIV?
Even if it wasn't would my Greek ticket be valid because the original
problem was a rail one not a ferry one?

Theo

> And a related question.  Let's say I had a series of onward non-changeable
> tickets which had been booked separately.  For example Brussels-Amsterdam,
> Amsterdam-Frankfurt, Frankfurt-Milan, Milan-Bari, ferry to Patras,
> Patras-Athens.  Would CIV rules allow me to take the next available service
> for each of these legs, even though I booked them all separately?  (It'd be
> almost impossible to book them together I imagine - even if I used an agent
> they'd use lots of different systems to book).

The CIV rules talk about contracts for carriage.  If you buy separate 
tickets in separate transactions, then you're fairly clearly entering 
into separate contracts for carriage, so AIUI you won't be covered if 
you fail to make it to the point where you change contracts (tickets) in 
time.

So I think it works much like the usual interpretation of splitting 
Advance tickets in the UK: you're covered for missed connections within 
a ticket but not between tickets.

Where it becomes a bit more grey is when you buy two separate connecting 
tickets in a single transaction - did you enter into one contract or two?

-roy

Roy Badami wrote:
> 
>> And a related question.  Let's say I had a series of onward 
>> non-changeable
>> tickets which had been booked separately.  For example 
>> Brussels-Amsterdam,
>> Amsterdam-Frankfurt, Frankfurt-Milan, Milan-Bari, ferry to Patras,
>> Patras-Athens.  Would CIV rules allow me to take the next available 
>> service
>> for each of these legs, even though I booked them all separately?  
>> (It'd be
>> almost impossible to book them together I imagine - even if I used an 
>> agent
>> they'd use lots of different systems to book).
> 
> The CIV rules talk about contracts for carriage.  If you buy separate 
> tickets in separate transactions, then you're fairly clearly entering 
> into separate contracts for carriage, so AIUI you won't be covered if 
> you fail to make it to the point where you change contracts (tickets) in 
> time.
> 
> So I think it works much like the usual interpretation of splitting 
> Advance tickets in the UK: you're covered for missed connections within 
> a ticket but not between tickets.
> 
> Where it becomes a bit more grey is when you buy two separate connecting 
> tickets in a single transaction - did you enter into one contract or two?

Which would seem to offer a bit of a get-out for the railways: they 
could do, say, London - Koeln tickets for GBP1000 - look, Mr Government, 
we do through tickets! - or separate tickets for GBP30+30, but you are 
stuffed if anything goes wrong.

Eurostar have told me they would honour an inflexible booking to London 
if the separately-booked train to Brussels was delayed, but these days 
you really need that in writing. If Eurostar is playing at being a 
ground level airline, we have to suspect they might act like an airline 
when things go wrong.

To be fair, when the soon-to-be-no-more sleeper from Berlin was late 
Eurostar did allow me to check in ~10 min before departure, and I've 
dashed through Lille off a delayed TGV.
-- 
Arthur Figgis               Surrey, UK

On 13 Sep, 20:12, "Lüko Willms" <l.wil...@domain.invalid> wrote:

> Am Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:37:24 UTC,  schrieb Mizter T
>   auf uk.railway :
>
> > I'm certainly unsure of precisely what is going on when a short news
> > bulletin refers to the fact that passenger and freight trains have
> > resumed in the channel tunnel - which passenger service (Eurostar or
> > car shuttle), and which freight trains (freight shuttle or
> > conventional rail freight) I ask myself?!
>
>    No shuttles yet, only thru freight and passenger trains.
>

It was a rhetorical - rather than a literal - question!

But it proves my point - the terminology in use appears to have
successfully confused you! The timeline page [1] has this entry for
Friday 12 September:

<quote>
>> 11:53pm (BST) - Situation update
Channel Tunnel traffic has resumes using the South Tunnel.
The first Truck Shuttle which left the Folkestone Terminal with 27
vehicles on board arrived on time in Coquelles.
Earlier, two freight trains ran across the Channel Tunnel in the same
direction.
</quote>


The truck shuttle is obviously just that (but Eurotunnel refer to it
elsewhere as the "Eurotunnel Freight shuttle"), whilst the "two
freight trains" are two conventional rail freight trains. Nonetheless
one can see where the potential for confusion comes in!

-----
[1] http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcCorporate/ukcTheGroup/ukcFocusOn/ukpFocusOn.htm

On 13 Sep, 10:03, "Lüko Willms" <l.wil...@domain.invalid> wrote:
>   This past night, the south bore of the Channel tunnel was reopened
> for traffic. Both freight trains and Eurostar passenger trains operate
> at a reduced schedule.
>

The timeline page [1] now states that a limited car and coach shuttle
service has resumed, but these are initially only available to
customers with a reservation for travel.

The latest entry reads as follows:

---<quote>---
>> 10am (BST) – Situation update
Eurotunnel Passenger Shuttle services restarted early this morning,
Sunday 14 September. The first car carrying shuttle left Folkestone at
0618 local time, followed by a second from Coquelles at 0803 CET. In
order to facilitate the restart of Passenger Shuttle services they
will, initially, only be available to customers who already have a
reservation for travel.

Less than three days after the fire, all Channel Tunnel services are
once again operational:
80 Truck and Passenger Shuttles,
24 Eurostars between London and Paris,
12 Eurostars between London and Brussels and,
on average, six rail freight trains every 24 hours.

For further information on departures, got to www.eurotunnel.com
---</quote>---


Though at present should one "got to" www.eurotunnel.com and navigate
one's way to the 'Latest travel information' page for the car and
coach tourist shuttles [2], one will find that this page has not yet
been updated to reflect this information - it is still advising
returning customers to turn up at Calais or Dover instead where ferry
operators will honour their tickets (I presume this will continue to
be the case today).

-----
[1] http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcCorporate/ukcTheGroup/ukcFocusOn/ukpFocusOn.htm

[2] http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcPassengers/ukcCompanyContactUs/ukpTravelInfo.htm

Am Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:20:13 UTC,  schrieb Mizter T 
  auf uk.railway :

> But it proves my point - the terminology in use appears to have
> successfully confused you! The timeline page [1] has this entry for
> Friday 12 September:
> 
> <quote>
> >> 11:53pm (BST) - Situation update
> Channel Tunnel traffic has resumes using the South Tunnel.
> The first Truck Shuttle 

  I stand corrected. I confused the passenger shuttles with the 
shuttles in general. 


Cheers, 
L.W.

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:46:43 GMT, Roy Badami wrote:
> The CIV rules talk about contracts for carriage.  If you buy separate 
> tickets in separate transactions, then you're fairly clearly entering 
> into separate contracts for carriage, so AIUI you won't be covered if 
> you fail to make it to the point where you change contracts (tickets) in 
> time.
>
> So I think it works much like the usual interpretation of splitting 
> Advance tickets in the UK: you're covered for missed connections within 
> a ticket but not between tickets.
>
> Where it becomes a bit more grey is when you buy two separate connecting 
> tickets in a single transaction - did you enter into one contract or two?

That is one contract. The GTC-CIV explicitely mention that a contract
may consist of multiple tickets.

Regards,

          Rian

-- 
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: rvdborgt@evonet.be  www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/

Rian van der Borgt wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:46:43 GMT, Roy Badami wrote:

>> Where it becomes a bit more grey is when you buy two separate connecting 
>> tickets in a single transaction - did you enter into one contract or two?
> 
> That is one contract. The GTC-CIV explicitely mention that a contract
> may consist of multiple tickets.

Certainly.  But it isn't clear to me that multiple tickets always 
constitute a single contract, particularly if the tickets are with 
different carriers (which, more often than not, will be the case).

-roy

Lüko Willms wrote:
>   This past night, the south bore of the Channel tunnel was reopened 
> for traffic. Both freight trains and Eurostar passenger trains operate
> at a reduced schedule. 
> 
>   The north bore remains shut for some time. The two crossovers in the
> tunnel could be used later to reduce the single-track to the section 
> where the fire occured, I guess. 

Why aren't they using the crossovers? I'd have thought that just using 
one of the 2 tunnels all the way through wouldn't be of much use.

What do they do: send several trains down, wait for them all to come out 
the other end and then send a load the other way?

On 15 Sep, 17:56, Stuart  wrote:

> Lüko Willms wrote:
> >   This past night, the south bore of the Channel tunnel was reopened
> > for traffic. Both freight trains and Eurostar passenger trains operate
> > at a reduced schedule.
>
> >   The north bore remains shut for some time. The two crossovers in the
> > tunnel could be used later to reduce the single-track to the section
> > where the fire occured, I guess.
>
> Why aren't they using the crossovers? I'd have thought that just using
> one of the 2 tunnels all the way through wouldn't be of much use.
>

The whole of the North Tunnel (the tunnel where the fire happened) is
- or at least was - subject to a a French judicial enquiry, so it is
unavailable for use (I haven't read anything to suggest that this
situation has changed).

See Brian Williams' post here from saturday evening (he works for
Eurotunnel btw):
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.railway/msg/40ea49218934fd52

>
> What do they do: send several trains down, wait for them all to come out
> the other end and then send a load the other way?
>

Yes - contrary to your assumption, "just using one of the 2 tunnels
all the way through" is of considerable use - Eurotunnel are basically
funnelling through as many trains as they possibly can. See:
http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcCorporate/ukcTheGroup/ukcFocusOn/ukpFocusOn.htm

On Sep 15, 6:48 pm, Mizter T  wrote:
> > Why aren't they using the crossovers? I'd have thought that just using
> > one of the 2 tunnels all the way through wouldn't be of much use.
>
> The whole of the North Tunnel (the tunnel where the fire happened) is
> - or at least was - subject to a a French judicial enquiry, so it is
> unavailable for use (I haven't read anything to suggest that this
> situation has changed).

Interesting to see that the French police/accident investigation
system is even more witless and timewasting than ours...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote:
> On Sep 15, 6:48 pm, Mizter T  wrote:
>>> Why aren't they using the crossovers? I'd have thought that just using
>>> one of the 2 tunnels all the way through wouldn't be of much use.
>> The whole of the North Tunnel (the tunnel where the fire happened) is
>> - or at least was - subject to a a French judicial enquiry, so it is
>> unavailable for use (I haven't read anything to suggest that this
>> situation has changed).
> 
> Interesting to see that the French police/accident investigation
> system is even more witless and timewasting than ours...

I suppose it might be relevant to find the place where 
the fire might have started or been initiated.

Charlie

On 15 Sep, 18:58, John B  wrote:

> On Sep 15, 6:48 pm, Mizter T  wrote:
>
> > > Why aren't they using the crossovers? I'd have thought that just using
> > > one of the 2 tunnels all the way through wouldn't be of much use.
>
> > The whole of the North Tunnel (the tunnel where the fire happened) is
> > - or at least was - subject to a a French judicial enquiry, so it is
> > unavailable for use (I haven't read anything to suggest that this
> > situation has changed).
>
> Interesting to see that the French police/accident investigation
> system is even more witless and timewasting than ours...
>

I did ponder on that issue in one of my earlier posts, though I didn't
jump to any judgements (my post also pondered the wider issues of
which authorities have jurisdiction over what):
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.railway/msg/b582fbf9be1546f7

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:15:44 GMT, Roy Badami wrote:
> Rian van der Borgt wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:46:43 GMT, Roy Badami wrote:
>>> Where it becomes a bit more grey is when you buy two separate connecting 
>>> tickets in a single transaction - did you enter into one contract or two?
>> 
>> That is one contract. The GTC-CIV explicitely mention that a contract
>> may consist of multiple tickets.

[I was wrong - this is in the CIV itself, article 6.]

> Certainly.  But it isn't clear to me that multiple tickets always 
> constitute a single contract, particularly if the tickets are with 
> different carriers (which, more often than not, will be the case).

If you buy all of them from one operator, then you have one contract and
the operator you buy from is your contractual carrier. If you buy your
tickets separately from different operator/vendors, then, under current
rules, they're all separate contracts.

Regards,

          Rian

-- 
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: rvdborgt@evonet.be  www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/