Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
night.

Very entertaining as ever, though ‘we like to keep these things
(races) as close as possible’ did amount to sending May and Hammond on
the train via Kyoto. That’s a bit like racing from Aberystwyth to
London with the train passengers having to go via Edinburgh.

May was impressed by the trains (he’s a bit of crank on the quiet
apparently) whilst Clarkson acted the pratt brilliantly, as usual –
the Bill Oddy face mask was priceless.

Nice car as well but really, car and gearbox have to be a matching
pair???

More of this please.

allan tracy  typed:
> Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
> night.
>
> Very entertaining as ever, though ‘we like to keep these things
> (races) as close as possible’ did amount to sending May and Hammond on
> the train via Kyoto. That’s a bit like racing from Aberystwyth to
> London with the train passengers having to go via Edinburgh.
>
> May was impressed by the trains (he’s a bit of crank on the quiet
> apparently) whilst Clarkson acted the pratt brilliantly, as usual –
> the Bill Oddy face mask was priceless.
>
> Nice car as well but really, car and gearbox have to be a matching
> pair???
>
> More of this please.

Good entertainment.  When viewed as such it's a good programme, IMHO.  :)

-- 
Dogpoop
http://www.glass-uk.org/
"You would probably do better not to bother with renewable
energy"  Doug, UK.Transport 29/04/2008 08:53.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:11:27 +0100, "Dogpoop" 
wrote:

>allan tracy  typed:
>> Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
>> night.
>>
>> Very entertaining as ever, though ‘we like to keep these things
>> (races) as close as possible’ did amount to sending May and Hammond on
>> the train via Kyoto. That’s a bit like racing from Aberystwyth to
>> London with the train passengers having to go via Edinburgh.
>>
>> May was impressed by the trains (he’s a bit of crank on the quiet
>> apparently) whilst Clarkson acted the pratt brilliantly, as usual –
>> the Bill Oddy face mask was priceless.
>>
>> Nice car as well but really, car and gearbox have to be a matching
>> pair???
>>
>> More of this please.
>
>Good entertainment.  When viewed as such it's a good programme, IMHO.  :)

I think they could do without the weekly Clarkson creams his 46  inch
waist jeans over insert name of high performance car here segment.

 It's so repetetive, the director does the same camera shots every
time. Right Jeremey love if you could just give us some tyre smoke as
you come round that corner then we'll just set the camera up to get
some time lapses of the clouds and we can all go off for a nice G&T
darling.

Booooooooorrrring.  And the news section with the three of them is so
scripted it's painful to watch.

The challenges are, as you say, very entertaining but they did stretch
the limits of credence last night as they showed Clarkson running up a
flight of steps and apprently only being marginally out of breath at
the end of it. :-)

In message 
, at 
06:08:32 on Mon, 14 Jul 2008, allan tracy  
remarked:
>Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
>night.

It was great fun. I especially liked the splitting metro train. And at 
one point the car was filmed going over a bridge across Tokyo Bay with a 
hotel I'd stayed at a few years ago in distant view. Here's the bridge 
viewed from the hotel (and no, I wasn't in New York by mistake):

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/tokyo-bay.jpg

There was also a metro line running round the hotel, but I can't seem to 
find those pictures at the moment.
-- 
Roland Perry

On 14 Jul, 14:11, "Dogpoop"  wrote:
> allan tracy  typed:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
> > night.
> >
<snippy>
> >
> > More of this please.
>
> Good entertainment.  When viewed as such it's a good programme, IMHO.  :)

Has jumped the shark a bit in recent years, but does have its moments.

Someone once said it's the best sitcom on the BBC, which is quite a
fair assessment as to the level of seriousness and spontaniety.

I do like the way the director (or at least someone involved) has a
fetish for helicopter shots of big civil engineering. Oresund, the
Thames Barrier, Milau and now the Tokyo Bay crossing. If it inspires a
few budding civil engineers  then that;s all good.

A London to Edinburgh race with a Mk. 2 Jag vs. a Deltic would be fun
to watch.

Andy

"Mike Plowman"  wrote in message 
news:nbkm74t61ubaem5oj1pv2dvlgu9uahoq2a@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:11:27 +0100, "Dogpoop" 
> wrote:
>
>>allan tracy  typed:

>>Good entertainment.  When viewed as such it's a good programme, IMHO.  :)
>
> I think they could do without the weekly Clarkson creams his 46  inch
> waist jeans over insert name of high performance car here segment.
>
> It's so repetetive, the director does the same camera shots every
> time. Right Jeremey love if you could just give us some tyre smoke as
> you come round that corner then we'll just set the camera up to get
> some time lapses of the clouds and we can all go off for a nice G&T
> darling.
>


I liked last week when Clarkson trashed a tyre on the Bentley with his 
antics - I can't see there being much change out of a £1000 for a Bentley 
tyre (if any at all).

I can never understand the reason for all the tyre smoke, it's just 
pandering to the petrolheads.


MB

In article <564fa8e7-442f-4464-896c-7c168ab667c7
@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, allan tracy says...
> 
> Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
> night.
> 
> May was impressed by the trains (he?s a bit of crank on the quiet
> apparently) whilst Clarkson acted the pratt brilliantly, as usual ?
> the Bill Oddy face mask was priceless.
> 
I was too. "Late" is a minute over its due time and they recompense you 
with a free rail trip and a letter to your employer to explain why you 
are late. Average delay times in the last year SIX SECONDS. Makes ours 
look like a right fooking joke.

Oe thing I applauded them for was their attitude to twats using mobile 
phones on trains and buses.



-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In message <487b5ac2$0$770$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net>, at 14:55:04 
on Mon, 14 Jul 2008, MB <mb@invalid.invalid> remarked:
>I liked last week when Clarkson trashed a tyre on the Bentley with his
>antics - I can't see there being much change out of a £1000 for a Bentley
>tyre (if any at all).

And the reason they didn't finish the testing was presumably the lack of 
a spare, and not the excuse they gave.
-- 
Roland Perry

abe22@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> On 14 Jul, 14:11, "Dogpoop"  wrote:
>> allan tracy  typed:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
>>> night.
>>>
> <snippy>
>>> More of this please.
>> Good entertainment.  When viewed as such it's a good programme, IMHO.  :)
> 
> Has jumped the shark a bit in recent years, but does have its moments.
> 
> Someone once said it's the best sitcom on the BBC, which is quite a
> fair assessment as to the level of seriousness and spontaniety.
> 
> I do like the way the director (or at least someone involved) has a
> fetish for helicopter shots of big civil engineering. Oresund, the
> Thames Barrier, Milau and now the Tokyo Bay crossing. If it inspires a
> few budding civil engineers  then that;s all good.
> 
> A London to Edinburgh race with a Mk. 2 Jag vs. a Deltic would be fun
> to watch.
> 
> Andy
I know what my Money would be on  English Electric every time.

Rob.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 06:08:32 -0700 (PDT), allan tracy
 wrote:

>
>Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
>night.
>
>Very entertaining as ever, though ‘we like to keep these things
>(races) as close as possible’ did amount to sending May and Hammond on
>the train via Kyoto. That’s a bit like racing from Aberystwyth to
>London with the train passengers having to go via Edinburgh.

There is no more direct rail route. They may have tunneled a M-way
though those mountains but have yet to work out how to tunnel for a
train. Trains need a flatter straighter route that would need 100's of
miles of tunnel in an earthquake zone making the Channel Tunnel look
like a breeze. Crossing the mountain backbone of Japan is quite an
extreme short haul plane trip, to operate with the required climb rate
the engines have a special rating just for ANA to do it.

>May was impressed by the trains (he’s a bit of crank on the quiet
>apparently) whilst Clarkson acted the pratt brilliantly, as usual –
>the Bill Oddy face mask was priceless.
>
>Nice car as well but really, car and gearbox have to be a matching
>pair???
>
>More of this please.

ditto.

As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!!
(Well so long as the garage air line has a properly serviced and
functioning dryer on it)
-- 
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

"Peter Hill"  wrote in message
news:5otm745uvt2lgv9qj3cnb000kcapfdnv3a@4ax.com

> As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!!
> (Well so long as the garage air line has a properly serviced and
> functioning dryer on it)

Actually, planes use nitrogen in their tyres, too. I assume it's to 
avoid the oxidising effect of air and the water vapour.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:07:06 +0100, Peter Hill wrote
>
> As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!!
> (Well so long as the garage air line has a properly serviced and
> functioning dryer on it)
> 

ISTR that F1 cars have been using nitrogen for some time now

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:55:58 +0100, Stimpy wrote:

>> As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!! (Well so
>> long as the garage air line has a properly serviced and functioning
>> dryer on it)
>> 
>> 
> ISTR that F1 cars have been using nitrogen for some time now

It's used in F1 cars to stabalise the temperature within the tyre, so it 
gives more consistent performance lap after lap. Heated air expands, 
which is the last thing an F1 tyre wants at high temperatures, changing 
contact patch width etc.

Ar wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:55:58 +0100, Stimpy wrote:
>
>>> As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!!
>>> (Well so long as the garage air line has a properly serviced and
>>> functioning dryer on it)
>>>
>>>
>> ISTR that F1 cars have been using nitrogen for some time now
>
> It's used in F1 cars to stabalise the temperature within the tyre

Oh yeah?  How does it do that then?

> Heated air
> expands, which is the last thing an F1 tyre wants at high
> temperatures, changing contact patch width etc.

All gases expand on heating.  It's Charles's Law.  And it applies to pure 
nitrogen just as it does to air, which happens to comprise 80% nitrogen 
anyway.

So, care to revise your scientific breakthrough?

>
> I liked last week when Clarkson trashed a tyre on the Bentley with his
> antics - I can't see there being much change out of a £1000 for a Bentley
> tyre (if any at all).
>
> I can never understand the reason for all the tyre smoke, it's just
> pandering to the petrolheads.
>

I suspect that sort of driving appalls most of us with an engineering
background, just can't stand watching a well designed piece of
engineering being abused that way.

You don’t see it even in formula 1 the idea being to maintain traction
not lose it so it’s probably not even good driving.

Isn’t that why they fit traction control nowadays so I can’t really
understand why Clarkson always reaches for the off button.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:48:12 +0100, allan tracy wrote
> 
> I suspect that sort of driving appalls most of us with an engineering
> background, just can't stand watching a well designed piece of
> engineering being abused that way.
> 
> You don’t see it even in formula 1 the idea being to maintain traction
> not lose it so it’s probably not even good driving.

No, but it's jolly good fun! :-)

In message <487b5ac2$0$770$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net>
          "MB" <mb@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> 
> "Mike Plowman"  wrote in message 
> news:nbkm74t61ubaem5oj1pv2dvlgu9uahoq2a@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:11:27 +0100, "Dogpoop" 
> > wrote:
> >
> >>allan tracy  typed:
> 
> >>Good entertainment.  When viewed as such it's a good programme, IMHO.  :)
> >
> > I think they could do without the weekly Clarkson creams his 46  inch
> > waist jeans over insert name of high performance car here segment.
> >
> > It's so repetetive, the director does the same camera shots every
> > time. Right Jeremey love if you could just give us some tyre smoke as
> > you come round that corner then we'll just set the camera up to get
> > some time lapses of the clouds and we can all go off for a nice G&T
> > darling.
> >
> 
> 
> I liked last week when Clarkson trashed a tyre on the Bentley with his 
> antics - I can't see there being much change out of a £1000 for a Bentley 
> tyre (if any at all).
> 
> I can never understand the reason for all the tyre smoke, it's just 
> pandering to the petrolheads.
> 

And this on a group that revels in the thrash and clag from a knackered
diesel engine...

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

"allan tracy"  wrote in message 
news:13f27b97-f700-4bc5-b339-094572bd24f1@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> I suspect that sort of driving appalls most of us with an engineering
> background,

You'd be wrong.

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:6e15i4F4pudjU4@mid.individual.net...
>
> I was too. "Late" is a minute over its due time and they recompense you
> with a free rail trip and a letter to your employer to explain why you
> are late. Average delay times in the last year SIX SECONDS. Makes ours
> look like a right fooking joke.


I was watching a Japanese film earlier in the year and almost collapsed when 
the leading man having been stuck in a train due to heavy snow said: "I had 
never even contemplated that the train could be late."

"Stimpy"  wrote in message 
news:0001HW.C4A143AE014969C5F0407648@news.eclipse.co.uk...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:07:06 +0100, Peter Hill wrote
>>
>> As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!!
>> (Well so long as the garage air line has a properly serviced and
>> functioning dryer on it)
>>
>
> ISTR that F1 cars have been using nitrogen for some time now

Amongst other gasses (no not air) this is what sparked the Mcrrari spy 
scandal of last year, the "top secrete" blend of gasses rumoured to be higher 
in CO2 than the rest of the field that Ferrari were running, was leaked (or 
hissed ;) ) to a McLaren test engineer that lead to the alleged 750 page 
dossier. Nitrogen is the most common gas used by race teams as an air 
substitute.

"Roland Perry"  wrote in message 
news:s$VKKOskW1eIFAMR@perry.co.uk...
> In message 
> , at 
> 06:08:32 on Mon, 14 Jul 2008, allan tracy  
> remarked:
>>Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
>>night.
>
> It was great fun. I especially liked the splitting metro train. And at one 
> point the car was filmed going over a bridge across Tokyo Bay with a hotel 
> I'd stayed at a few years ago in distant view. Here's the bridge viewed 
> from the hotel (and no, I wasn't in New York by mistake):
>
> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/tokyo-bay.jpg

Great shot!

In message , at 20:14:31 on Mon, 14 
Jul 2008, cupra  remarked:
>> http://www.perry.co.uk/images/tokyo-bay.jpg
>
>Great shot!

Thanks. The statue is only about 35ft tall, the handrail on the path 
past it gives a clue to the scale.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:32:03 +0100, Norman Wells wrote:

> All gases expand on heating.

Well done, now do you know the difference in the statement I made between 
STABILISE temperature or air's rather erratic characteristic (and try to 
de-humidify it)? If F1 teams thought that normal air was such a great gas 
to use in tyres, they would not bother with the expense in using their 
fancy gas compounds to inflate the tyres. Funnily enough, they choose to 
use the fancy gas.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:55:04 +0100, "MB" <mb@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>I can never understand the reason for all the tyre smoke, it's just 
>pandering to the petrolheads.

I'm not a petrolhead (indeed, quite the opposite; I do not have, nor
have I ever had, an ambition to own any kind of impracticably fast
car), but I do find Top Gear very funny.  I think it needs to be taken
in context that it's not really a programme about cars any more,
though (Fifth Gear is more what it used to be), it's more about
laddishness.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:18:47 +0100, Conor 
wrote:

>Oe thing I applauded them for was their attitude to twats using mobile=20
>phones on trains and buses.

Not quite sure where that came from, though, as when I was in Tokyo
loads of people were using them on the train.  Perhaps they were in a
quiet coach or something.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:47:51 +0100, "Recliner"
<nigelp@clara.co_dot_uk> wrote:

>Actually, planes use nitrogen in their tyres, too. I assume it's to 
>avoid the oxidising effect of air and the water vapour. 

Would also have a fire-safety effect, wouldn't it?

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"MB" <mb@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:487b5ac2$0$770$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net...
>
>>
> I can never understand the reason for all the tyre smoke, it's just
> pandering to the petrolheads.


In the last series they had a team of Japanese drivers on, who do nothing
else but synchronised tyre smoking. They even have a name for it.


michael adams




>
>
> MB
>
>

On 14 Jul, 14:49, ab...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> On 14 Jul, 14:11, "Dogpoop"  wrote:
>
> > allan tracy  typed:
>
> > > Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
> > > night.
>
> <snippy>
>
> > > More of this please.
>
> > Good entertainment.  When viewed as such it's a good programme, IMHO.  :)
>
> Has jumped the shark a bit in recent years, but does have its moments.
>
> Someone once said it's the best sitcom on the BBC, which is quite a
> fair assessment as to the level of seriousness and spontaniety.
>
> I do like the way the director (or at least someone involved) has a
> fetish for helicopter shots of big civil engineering. Oresund, the
> Thames Barrier, Milau and now the Tokyo Bay crossing. If it inspires a
> few budding civil engineers  then that;s all good.
>
> A London to Edinburgh race with a Mk. 2 Jag vs. a Deltic would be fun
> to watch.
>
> Andy

No, even better.

Jim Clark put up some lengendary times between london and his home in
Duns.

Lotus Elite vs Deltic plus 8!!

Ar wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:32:03 +0100, Norman Wells wrote:
>
>> All gases expand on heating.
>
> Well done, now do you know the difference in the statement I made
> between STABILISE temperature or air's rather erratic characteristic
> (and try to de-humidify it)?

Your English is so appalling that I have no idea what point you are dismally 
failing to make, or what you are asking.


> If F1 teams thought that normal air was
> such a great gas to use in tyres, they would not bother with the
> expense in using their fancy gas compounds to inflate the tyres.
> Funnily enough, they choose to use the fancy gas.

Funnily enough, nitrogen is hardly a fancy gas.  It comprises 80% of the air 
you breathe.  It isn't a compound, and it's as cheap as chips.  Apart from 
that ....

On 14 Jul, 20:28, Roland Perry  wrote:
> In message , at 20:14:31 on Mon, 14
> Jul 2008, cupra  remarked:
>
> >>http://www.perry.co.uk/images/tokyo-bay.jpg
>
> >Great shot!
>
> Thanks. The statue is only about 35ft tall, the handrail on the path
> past it gives a clue to the scale.
> --
> Roland Perry

Why do they have a replica?

On 14 Jul, 23:12, Connaire  wrote:
> > >>http://www.perry.co.uk/images/tokyo-bay.jpg
>
> > >Great shot!
>
> > Thanks. The statue is only about 35ft tall, the handrail on the path
> > past it gives a clue to the scale.
>
> Why do they have a replica?

Because the real one would have been a touch pricey.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

In message 
          "Recliner" <nigelp@clara.co_dot_uk> wrote:

> "Peter Hill"  wrote in message
> news:5otm745uvt2lgv9qj3cnb000kcapfdnv3a@4ax.com

>> As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!!
>> (Well so long as the garage air line has a properly serviced and
>> functioning dryer on it)

> Actually, planes use nitrogen in their tyres, too. I assume it's to
> avoid the oxidising effect of air and the water vapour.

The Montreal Metro uses nitrogen for its Paris metro type tyres. It is 
a fire precaution. Montreal had a disastrous fire a few years ago and 
the tyres were certainly among the combustibles. It might be more 
fruitful to include halons. Halons don't just deprive fires of oxygen, 
they also mop up the free radicals which help spread the fire, but by 
time they are released from the gas in burning tyres it might be too 
late.

Michael Bell




--

Robert Wilson  wrote:

> I know what my Money would be on  English Electric every time.

My English Electric will beat your English Electric every time.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3mBMYUljwd8

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:18:47 +0100, Conor 
wrote:

>In article <564fa8e7-442f-4464-896c-7c168ab667c7
>@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, allan tracy says...
>> 
>> Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
>> night.
>> 
>> May was impressed by the trains (he?s a bit of crank on the quiet
>> apparently) whilst Clarkson acted the pratt brilliantly, as usual ?
>> the Bill Oddy face mask was priceless.
>> 
>I was too. "Late" is a minute over its due time and they recompense you 
>with a free rail trip and a letter to your employer to explain why you 
>are late. Average delay times in the last year SIX SECONDS. Makes ours 
>look like a right fooking joke.
>
>Oe thing I applauded them for was their attitude to twats using mobile 
>phones on trains and buses.

It works both ways though, my mind goes back to that 'metro' train
that derailed whilst raised up above the ground a couple of years ago
and killed about 80 people. Why did it do that? Because the train was
running late and the driver wanted to get back on schedule. If their
answer to trains being late is to the blatantly break the speed limit
(I'm worried that it's even possible to do so without systems
preventing it) then I'm not sure I'm so keen on it.

Peter Hill  typed:

> As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!!

You appear to know little of which you speak.  Nitrogen has been used for 
years in high-performance and racing cars, the results of which have been 
well documented.

It's of little use in 'normal' road-going cars..

-- 
Dogpoop
http://www.glass-uk.org/
"You would probably do better not to bother with renewable
energy"  Doug, UK.Transport 29/04/2008 08:53.

On 15 Jul, 07:10, J...@a.com wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:18:47 +0100, Conor 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >In article <564fa8e7-442f-4464-896c-7c168ab667c7
> >@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, allan tracy says...
>
> >> Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
> >> night.
>
> >> May was impressed by the trains (he?s a bit of crank on the quiet
> >> apparently) whilst Clarkson acted the pratt brilliantly, as usual ?
> >> the Bill Oddy face mask was priceless.
>
> >I was too. "Late" is a minute over its due time and they recompense you
> >with a free rail trip and a letter to your employer to explain why you
> >are late. Average delay times in the last year SIX SECONDS. Makes ours
> >look like a right fooking joke.
>
> >Oe thing I applauded them for was their attitude to twats using mobile
> >phones on trains and buses.
>
> It works both ways though, my mind goes back to that 'metro' train
> that derailed whilst raised up above the ground a couple of years ago
> and killed about 80 people. Why did it do that? Because the train was
> running late and the driver wanted to get back on schedule. If their
> answer to trains being late is to the blatantly break the speed limit
> (I'm worried that it's even possible to do so without systems
> preventing it) then I'm not sure I'm so keen on it.

What a pity that the motorists who dominate and swamp this transport
newsgroup can turn a promising thread about trains, despite being
featured on that loathsome 'Top Gear', into an inevitable discussion
about cars coupled with a criticism of trains.

--
World Carfree Network
http://www.worldcarfree.net/
Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:14:50 +0100, "Dogpoop" 
wrote:

>Peter Hill  typed:
>
>> As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!!
>
>You appear to know little of which you speak.  Nitrogen has been used for 
>years in high-performance and racing cars, the results of which have been 
>well documented.
>
>It's of little use in 'normal' road-going cars..

You clearly don't understand boyles or daltons law.
-- 
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:34:53 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:47:51 +0100, "Recliner"
><nigelp@clara.co_dot_uk> wrote:
>
>>Actually, planes use nitrogen in their tyres, too.  

so?

>>I assume it's to
>>avoid the oxidising effect of air and the water vapour. 

So so wrong. Motorsport quackery. Tyres aren't fitted long enough on
F1 for oxidation to be an issue, big earth movers and container
stackers, yes, but that's to stop the steel rims rusting. Alloy rims
don't rust but corrode due to assholes fitting the tyres damaging the
rim finish when taking the old one off. Some Michelins last years but
who cares about a few rust pits on steel rims? If you see any claims
to forklifts using N2 it can't be many as everyone I've seen has solid
tyres. A proper air compressor for automotive tyre filling has a DRIER
on it, so no water pumped in to tyre.

>Would also have a fire-safety effect, wouldn't it?
>
>Neil
10/10

Aviation use it as they had a plane take off with a brake locked up.
This overheated the tyre (a lot), it set fire to the inner liner. It
didn't blow out straight off but waited until the outside pressure was
quite low at high altitude in flight.  When it let go, it went
explosively, total loss, no survivors.  CAP 747, appendix 1, GR No. 16
Tyre Bursts In Flight - Inflation Media.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=65&applicationid=11&mode=detail&id=1331
Only applies to aircraft with RETRACTABLE undercarriage and over
5700Kg. Some Citroens could be argued to have retractable suspension
but are way too light.

Dunlop's aircraft tyre fitment guide, requirement is not 100% nitrogen
but less than 5% oxygen.  Tyre is fitted in air and inflated using
nitrogen, resulting mix has less than 5% oxygen.
http://www.dunlopaircrafttyres.com/tyrecare/dm1172/DM1172.pdf

It's quite hard to fill a tubeless tyre with 100% N2 as it's full of
air with O2, moisture etc when you fit the thing. Distortion caused by
vacuum purge would damage the tyre. So all you can do is repeatedly
fill and deflate it. 1st ~11%O2 (2bar first fill), 2nd ~6%O2, 3rd
~3%O2. Over inflation to speed up the process is possible but also
risky to the carcass. Do you think they bother to do multiple fills
deflates, and refills? Do you think they are smart enough to have even
worked it out? Na, fit the tyre, fill with N2, charge the punter.

Just how often and how far will a car be driven with a locked brake?
OK you can make them go pop by excessive wheel spinning but it's
hardly life threatening. F1 do lock or spin up quite often but it's
not going to start a fire. An F1 blowout is due to loss of tread and
the penalty for not looking after them.
-- 
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

In message
, at
15:12:43 on Mon, 14 Jul 2008, Connaire 
remarked:
>>The statue is only about 35ft tall, the handrail on the path
>> past it gives a clue to the scale.
>
>Why do they have a replica?

        "In Japan, the French Statue of Liberty came to Odaiba, the
        beach area of Tokyo since April 1998 until May 1999 in
        commemoration of "The French year in Japan". Because of its
        popularity, in 2000, a replica of the French Statue of Liberty
        was erected at the same place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicas_of_the_Statue_of_Liberty
-- 
Roland Perry

Doug wrote:
> On 15 Jul, 07:10, J...@a.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:18:47 +0100, Conor 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> In article <564fa8e7-442f-4464-896c-7c168ab667c7
>>> @z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, allan tracy says...
>>>> Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
>>>> night.
>>>> May was impressed by the trains (he?s a bit of crank on the quiet
>>>> apparently) whilst Clarkson acted the pratt brilliantly, as usual ?
>>>> the Bill Oddy face mask was priceless.
>>> I was too. "Late" is a minute over its due time and they recompense you
>>> with a free rail trip and a letter to your employer to explain why you
>>> are late. Average delay times in the last year SIX SECONDS. Makes ours
>>> look like a right fooking joke.
>>> Oe thing I applauded them for was their attitude to twats using mobile
>>> phones on trains and buses.
>> It works both ways though, my mind goes back to that 'metro' train
>> that derailed whilst raised up above the ground a couple of years ago
>> and killed about 80 people. Why did it do that? Because the train was
>> running late and the driver wanted to get back on schedule. If their
>> answer to trains being late is to the blatantly break the speed limit
>> (I'm worried that it's even possible to do so without systems
>> preventing it) then I'm not sure I'm so keen on it.
> 
> What a pity that the motorists who dominate and swamp this transport
> newsgroup can turn a promising thread about trains, despite being
> featured on that loathsome 'Top Gear', into an inevitable discussion
> about cars coupled with a criticism of trains.
> 
> --
> World Carfree Network
> http://www.worldcarfree.net/
> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
> 

I know you don't do 'irony' or 'sarcasm' so could you explain what you 
are on about?

-- 
Tony the Dragon

Tony Dragon wrote:
> Doug wrote:

>> What a pity that the motorists who dominate and swamp this transport
>> newsgroup can turn a promising thread about trains, despite being
>> featured on that loathsome 'Top Gear', into an inevitable discussion
>> about cars coupled with a criticism of trains.
>>
>> --
>> World Carfree Network
>> http://www.worldcarfree.net/
>> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
>>
>
> I know you don't do 'irony' or 'sarcasm' so could you explain what you
> are on about?

He doesn't know, he's merely making one of his Pavlovian responses.

Steve Firth wrote:
> Robert Wilson  wrote:
> 
>> I know what my Money would be on  English Electric every time.
> 
> My English Electric will beat your English Electric every time.
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3mBMYUljwd8

Brilliant!

-- 
Moving things in still pictures!

On 15 Jul, 00:39, %ste...@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> Robert Wilson  wrote:
> > I know what my Money would be on  English Electric every time.
>
> My English Electric will beat your English Electric every time.
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3mBMYUljwd8

Touche! Beast of a machine.

For all you can say about Clarkson, he's got good taste in garden
ornaments.

And you gotta love Vangelis' To The Unknown Man

--
Andy Elms

Brimstone wrote:
> Tony Dragon wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
> 
>>> What a pity that the motorists who dominate and swamp this transport
>>> newsgroup can turn a promising thread about trains, despite being
>>> featured on that loathsome 'Top Gear', into an inevitable discussion
>>> about cars coupled with a criticism of trains.
>>>
>>> --
>>> World Carfree Network
>>> http://www.worldcarfree.net/
>>> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
>>>
>> I know you don't do 'irony' or 'sarcasm' so could you explain what you
>> are on about?
> 
> He doesn't know, he's merely making one of his Pavlovian responses. 
> 
> 
Is that anything to do with "dogging"?

-- 
Moving things in still pictures!

®i©ardo wrote:
> Brimstone wrote:
>> Tony Dragon wrote:
>>> Doug wrote:
>>
>>>> What a pity that the motorists who dominate and swamp this
>>>> transport newsgroup can turn a promising thread about trains,
>>>> despite being featured on that loathsome 'Top Gear', into an
>>>> inevitable discussion about cars coupled with a criticism of
>>>> trains. --
>>>> World Carfree Network
>>>> http://www.worldcarfree.net/
>>>> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
>>>>
>>> I know you don't do 'irony' or 'sarcasm' so could you explain what
>>> you are on about?
>>
>> He doesn't know, he's merely making one of his Pavlovian responses.
>>
>>
> Is that anything to do with "dogging"?

I suspect that Doug is too ashamed to show his face in public much less do 
anything risque.

"Michael Bell"  wrote in message 
news:3058dbbe4f.michaelbell@michael.beaverbell.co.uk...
> In message 
>          "Recliner" <nigelp@clara.co_dot_uk> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hill"  wrote in message
>> news:5otm745uvt2lgv9qj3cnb000kcapfdnv3a@4ax.com
>
>>> As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!!
>>> (Well so long as the garage air line has a properly serviced and
>>> functioning dryer on it)
>
>> Actually, planes use nitrogen in their tyres, too. I assume it's to
>> avoid the oxidising effect of air and the water vapour.
>
> The Montreal Metro uses nitrogen for its Paris metro type tyres. It is
> a fire precaution. Montreal had a disastrous fire a few years ago and
> the tyres were certainly among the combustibles. It might be more
> fruitful to include halons. Halons don't just deprive fires of oxygen,
> they also mop up the free radicals which help spread the fire, but by
> time they are released from the gas in burning tyres it might be too
> late.
>
> Michael Bell
>
>
>
>
> --
They might well have done until the 1990s, but halon-based systems have been 
prohibited by international treaty for use in anything apart from a few 
safety-critical locations (in one of which I work) due to their very 
agressive ozone-depleting actions. Prior to that, they were not uncommon in 
locations like transformer cubicles in electric locos.
Brian

In article , Peter Hill 
says...
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:14:50 +0100, "Dogpoop" 
> wrote:
> 
> >Peter Hill  typed:
> >
> >> As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!!
> >
> >You appear to know little of which you speak.  Nitrogen has been used for 
> >years in high-performance and racing cars, the results of which have been 
> >well documented.
> >
> >It's of little use in 'normal' road-going cars..
> 
> You clearly don't understand boyles or daltons law.
> 
Or he does and knows that in your average Ford Focus pottering to work 
and back at 45MPH that it makes not one shit of difference whatsoever.

-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Peter Hill  typed:
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:14:50 +0100, "Dogpoop" 
> wrote:
>
>> Peter Hill  typed:
>>
>>> As for Nitrogen in the tyres. More stable than air? BULLSHIT!!
>>
>> You appear to know little of which you speak.  Nitrogen has been
>> used for years in high-performance and racing cars, the results of
>> which have been well documented.
>>
>> It's of little use in 'normal' road-going cars..
>
> You clearly don't understand boyles or daltons law.

Probably not, but I do know a bit about motorsport etc.

Perhaps you could enlighten me instead of trying a game of points scoring?

-- 
Dogpoop
http://www.glass-uk.org/
"You would probably do better not to bother with renewable
energy"  Doug, UK.Transport 29/04/2008 08:53.

On Jul 14, 2:08 pm, allan tracy  wrote:
> Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
> night.
<snip>
>
> May was impressed by the trains (he’s a bit of crank on the quiet
> apparently)
<snip>

I don't know. I hadn't heard but that's as surprising
as a wildcat story in silly season up here. What I
can and will say though is that I had a moment of
what I understand to be referred to as "epiphany"
when I saw the range of Haynes manuals written
in conjunction with the RAF for various classic old
crates, and some rather newer ones actually.

It bring a slightly wryer element to the whole "pointless
hours spent flicking switches, checking bulbs and
failing to actually configure the array in order to
effect sustained combustion" persona May has bumbled
his way through for the cameras, running cross-season
tag gag like a blooperstring than was, perhaps, immediately
obvious.

That's not cranky--that's just namechecking within
the remit. After all, not all vacuum carbs are equal.

> Nice car as well but really, car and gearbox have to be a matching
> pair???
>
> More of this please.

G DAEB
COPYRIGHT (C) 2008 SIPSTON
--

"Roland Perry"  wrote in message 
news:s$VKKOskW1eIFAMR@perry.co.uk...
> In message 
> , at 
> 06:08:32 on Mon, 14 Jul 2008, allan tracy  
> remarked:
>>Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
>>night.
>
> It was great fun. I especially liked the splitting metro train. And at one 
> point the car was filmed going over a bridge across Tokyo Bay with a hotel 
> I'd stayed at a few years ago in distant view. Here's the bridge viewed 
> from the hotel (and no, I wasn't in New York by mistake):

Are you sure you weren't in Paris by mistake?

"Peter Hill"  wrote in message 
news:vlgo74lu8h1qfq3nvj1mfjs5io4jkrvgfd@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:34:53 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
> Williams) wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:47:51 +0100, "Recliner"
>><nigelp@clara.co_dot_uk> wrote:
>>
>>>Actually, planes use nitrogen in their tyres, too.
>
> so?
>
>>>I assume it's to
>>>avoid the oxidising effect of air and the water vapour.
>
> So so wrong. Motorsport quackery.

If "Motorsport quackery" gets a faster or more consistent lap time which 
using these gases dose then it gets used which it dose.

In message <jqZek.18$hx3.15@newsfe18.ams2>
          ®i©ardo  wrote:

> Brimstone wrote:
> > Tony Dragon wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
> > 
> >>> What a pity that the motorists who dominate and swamp this transport
> >>> newsgroup can turn a promising thread about trains, despite being
> >>> featured on that loathsome 'Top Gear', into an inevitable discussion
> >>> about cars coupled with a criticism of trains.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> World Carfree Network
> >>> http://www.worldcarfree.net/
> >>> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
> >>>
> >> I know you don't do 'irony' or 'sarcasm' so could you explain what you
> >> are on about?
> > 
> > He doesn't know, he's merely making one of his Pavlovian responses. 
> > 
> > 
> Is that anything to do with "dogging"?
> 

You mean he watches people eating meringues in car parks?

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

In message <eJmdnfC5EOgH4uHVnZ2dnUVZ8trinZ2d@posted.plusnet>, at 
11:30:34 on Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Depresion <127.0.0.1@?.?.invalid> 
remarked:
>>Here's the bridge viewed
>> from the hotel (and no, I wasn't in New York by mistake):
>
>Are you sure you weren't in Paris by mistake?

Absolutely :) The jetlag was too bad for Paris.

-- 
Roland Perry

I think its the same as "Good Old Maggie"

She loved unions in Poland and destroyed them at home:)

"Brimstone"  wrote in message 
news:Bf6dnf1t3KUC_uHVnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@bt.com...
> ®i©ardo wrote:
>> Brimstone wrote:
>>> Tony Dragon wrote:
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>
>>>>> What a pity that the motorists who dominate and swamp this
>>>>> transport newsgroup can turn a promising thread about trains,
>>>>> despite being featured on that loathsome 'Top Gear', into an
>>>>> inevitable discussion about cars coupled with a criticism of
>>>>> trains. --
>>>>> World Carfree Network
>>>>> http://www.worldcarfree.net/
>>>>> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
>>>>>
>>>> I know you don't do 'irony' or 'sarcasm' so could you explain what
>>>> you are on about?
>>>
>>> He doesn't know, he's merely making one of his Pavlovian responses.
>>>
>>>
>> Is that anything to do with "dogging"?
>
> I suspect that Doug is too ashamed to show his face in public much less do 
> anything risque.
>

In message 
          Conor  wrote:

[snip]
> your average Ford Focus pottering to work 
> and back at 45MPH 

Not a concept I'm familiar with.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

In message <eJmdnfC5EOgH4uHVnZ2dnUVZ8trinZ2d@posted.plusnet>
          "Depresion" <127.0.0.1> wrote:

> 
> "Roland Perry"  wrote in message 
> news:s$VKKOskW1eIFAMR@perry.co.uk...
> > In message 
> > , at 
> > 06:08:32 on Mon, 14 Jul 2008, allan tracy  
> > remarked:
> >>Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
> >>night.
> >
> > It was great fun. I especially liked the splitting metro train. And at
> > one  point the car was filmed going over a bridge across Tokyo Bay with a
> > hotel  I'd stayed at a few years ago in distant view. Here's the bridge
> > viewed  from the hotel (and no, I wasn't in New York by mistake):
> 
> Are you sure you weren't in Paris by mistake? 
> 
> 

I was desperately trying to find a photo of that one, I'm sure I have one
somewhere, probably featuring a Metro train of Sprague stock it was that long
ago.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

In message <f0f23fbf4f%Rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>, at 12:35:56 on Tue,
15 Jul 2008, Graeme Wall  remarked:
>> Are you sure you weren't in Paris by mistake?
>
>I was desperately trying to find a photo of that one

There are two apparently:

<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Paris.seine.li
berty.500pix.jpg/200px-Paris.seine.liberty.500pix.jpg>

<http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Statue_de_la_l
iberte.jpg/180px-Statue_de_la_liberte.jpg>
-- 
Roland Perry

In message <i0x5IXyz+JfIFAEl@perry.co.uk>
          Roland Perry  wrote:

> In message <f0f23fbf4f%Rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>, at 12:35:56 on Tue,
> 15 Jul 2008, Graeme Wall  remarked:
> >> Are you sure you weren't in Paris by mistake?
> >
> >I was desperately trying to find a photo of that one
> 
> There are two apparently:
> 
> <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Paris.seine.li
> berty.500pix.jpg/200px-Paris.seine.liberty.500pix.jpg>
> 
> <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Statue_de_la_l
> iberte.jpg/180px-Statue_de_la_liberte.jpg>

I was trying to find one of my own just for the hell of it.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

wrote in message 
news:enfo745jqlgl455pnc1c6khmdlao3mo5gg@4ax.com...
>>>
>>I was too. "Late" is a minute over its due time and they recompense you
>>with a free rail trip and a letter to your employer to explain why you
>>are late. Average delay times in the last year SIX SECONDS. Makes ours
>>look like a right fooking joke.
>
> It works both ways though, my mind goes back to that 'metro' train
> that derailed whilst raised up above the ground a couple of years ago
> and killed about 80 people. Why did it do that? Because the train was
> running late and the driver wanted to get back on schedule. If their
> answer to trains being late is to the blatantly break the speed limit
> (I'm worried that it's even possible to do so without systems
> preventing it) then I'm not sure I'm so keen on it.

And you don't think that this is done on any other railways? Many documented 
take, for example, Hither Green. Driver pissed and doing excessive speed way 
over the speed limit.

"Doug"  wrote in message 
news:ba5dbc78-0f5a-4515-8e32-1150fb40d9e5@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On 15 Jul, 07:10, J...@a.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:18:47 +0100, Conor 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >In article <564fa8e7-442f-4464-896c-7c168ab667c7
>> >@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, allan tracy says...
>>
>> >> Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
>> >> night.
>>
>> >> May was impressed by the trains (he?s a bit of crank on the quiet
>> >> apparently) whilst Clarkson acted the pratt brilliantly, as usual ?
>> >> the Bill Oddy face mask was priceless.
>>
>> >I was too. "Late" is a minute over its due time and they recompense you
>> >with a free rail trip and a letter to your employer to explain why you
>> >are late. Average delay times in the last year SIX SECONDS. Makes ours
>> >look like a right fooking joke.
>>
>> >Oe thing I applauded them for was their attitude to twats using mobile
>> >phones on trains and buses.
>>
>> It works both ways though, my mind goes back to that 'metro' train
>> that derailed whilst raised up above the ground a couple of years ago
>> and killed about 80 people. Why did it do that? Because the train was
>> running late and the driver wanted to get back on schedule. If their
>> answer to trains being late is to the blatantly break the speed limit
>> (I'm worried that it's even possible to do so without systems
>> preventing it) then I'm not sure I'm so keen on it.
>
> What a pity that the motorists who dominate and swamp this transport
> newsgroup can turn a promising thread about trains, despite being
> featured on that loathsome 'Top Gear', into an inevitable discussion
> about cars coupled with a criticism of trains.
>
Far from that. It was a criticism about the crap service we get in Britain 
on the trains against the excellent service that Japan has from its trains. 
If Britain had a train service like Japan I might actually consider using 
them.
Just done a return journey to near Swindon and back. For two people the 
train would have cost four times as much, had aircon working in the car 
(train aircon mostly broken down), good reliability whereas train would be 
late and missed connections, clean interior on the car as my experience is a 
filthy train and plenty of leg room whereas can't fit my legs in most train 
seats. Yep the British railways need lessons from Japan on how to run them. 
We can give the Japanese lessons on how not to run them.

"Depresion" <127.0.0.1> wrote in message 
news:eJmdnfO5EOgG4uHVnZ2dnUVZ8trinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
> "Peter Hill"  wrote in message 
> news:vlgo74lu8h1qfq3nvj1mfjs5io4jkrvgfd@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:34:53 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>> Williams) wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:47:51 +0100, "Recliner"
>>><nigelp@clara.co_dot_uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Actually, planes use nitrogen in their tyres, too.
>>
>> so?
>>
>>>>I assume it's to
>>>>avoid the oxidising effect of air and the water vapour.
>>
>> So so wrong. Motorsport quackery.
>
> If "Motorsport quackery" gets a faster or more consistent lap time which 
> using these gases dose then it gets used which it dose.
>
The Michelin tyre centre that recently replaced two tyres on my Citroen C3 
inflates all tyres they fit with nitrogen now. Apparently it helps prevents 
leaks, according to the poster in the reception bay. I hadn't thought any 
more of it until I read this thread.

On 15 Jul, 17:28, "Dave X"  wrote:
> "Depresion" <127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>
> news:eJmdnfO5EOgG4uHVnZ2dnUVZ8trinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
>
>
> > "Peter Hill"  wrote in message
> >news:vlgo74lu8h1qfq3nvj1mfjs5io4jkrvgfd@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:34:53 GMT, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
> >> Williams) wrote:
>
> >>>On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:47:51 +0100, "Recliner"
> >>><nig...@clara.co_dot_uk> wrote:
>
> >>>>Actually, planes use nitrogen in their tyres, too.
>
> >> so?
>
> >>>>I assume it's to
> >>>>avoid the oxidising effect of air and the water vapour.
>
> >> So so wrong. Motorsport quackery.
>
> > If "Motorsport quackery" gets a faster or more consistent lap time which
> > using these gases dose then it gets used which it dose.
>
> The Michelin tyre centre that recently replaced two tyres on my Citroen C3
> inflates all tyres they fit with nitrogen now. Apparently it helps prevents
> leaks, according to the poster in the reception bay. I hadn't thought any
> more of it until I read this thread.

Did they charge you extra for the privilege?

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:6e15i4F4pudjU4@mid.individual.net...
In article <564fa8e7-442f-4464-896c-7c168ab667c7
@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, allan tracy says...
>
> Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
> night.
>
> May was impressed by the trains (he?s a bit of crank on the quiet
> apparently) whilst Clarkson acted the pratt brilliantly, as usual ?
> the Bill Oddy face mask was priceless.
>
I was too. "Late" is a minute over its due time and they recompense you
with a free rail trip and a letter to your employer to explain why you
are late. Average delay times in the last year SIX SECONDS. Makes ours
look like a right fooking joke.

Oe thing I applauded them for was their attitude to twats using mobile
phones on trains and buses.


Poor old Connor,

in the uk.railway group can see so many holes in this comment as to make it 
utterly worthless.

Don't you just love the petrolheads?  :-)

Paul

wrote in message 
news:4f77c664-d6c9-4b54-af70-6a131696a02b@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On 15 Jul, 17:28, "Dave X"  wrote:
>> "Depresion" <127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>>
>> news:eJmdnfO5EOgG4uHVnZ2dnUVZ8trinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Peter Hill"  wrote in message
>> >news:vlgo74lu8h1qfq3nvj1mfjs5io4jkrvgfd@4ax.com...
>> >> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:34:53 GMT, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>> >> Williams) wrote:
>>
>> >>>On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:47:51 +0100, "Recliner"
>> >>><nig...@clara.co_dot_uk> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>Actually, planes use nitrogen in their tyres, too.
>>
>> >> so?
>>
>> >>>>I assume it's to
>> >>>>avoid the oxidising effect of air and the water vapour.
>>
>> >> So so wrong. Motorsport quackery.
>>
>> > If "Motorsport quackery" gets a faster or more consistent lap time 
>> > which
>> > using these gases dose then it gets used which it dose.
>>
>> The Michelin tyre centre that recently replaced two tyres on my Citroen 
>> C3
>> inflates all tyres they fit with nitrogen now. Apparently it helps 
>> prevents
>> leaks, according to the poster in the reception bay. I hadn't thought any
>> more of it until I read this thread.
>
> Did they charge you extra for the privilege?

No, it's standard practice there and they were by far the cheapest place for 
the tyres.

"Stephen"  wrote
>
> And you don't think that this is done on any other railways? Many
documented
> take, for example, Hither Green. Driver pissed and doing excessive speed
way
> over the speed limit.
>
Not Hither Green. ITYM Eltham Well Hall.

So you can think of a railway accident for which an intoxicated driver was
responsible. It happemned about 25 years ago.

In that time well over 10,000 people have been killed in road accidents for
which intoxicated drivers were responsible.

Get a sense of proportion.

Peter

"Peter Masson"  wrote in message 
news:VNudncFMZ4EheeHVnZ2dnUVZ8rednZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Stephen"  wrote
>>
>> And you don't think that this is done on any other railways? Many
> documented
>> take, for example, Hither Green. Driver pissed and doing excessive speed
> way
>> over the speed limit.
>>
> Not Hither Green. ITYM Eltham Well Hall.
>
> So you can think of a railway accident for which an intoxicated driver was
> responsible. It happemned about 25 years ago.
>
> In that time well over 10,000 people have been killed in road accidents 
> for
> which intoxicated drivers were responsible.
>
> Get a sense of proportion.
>
Lets just focus on the issue of the driver going too fast pissed or sober 
then you get;
Morpeth
Morpeth (yes again!)
Eltham
Paddington
Nuneaton
Are a few that come immediately to mind.

On Jul 15, 12:30 pm, "Depresion" <127.0.0.1> wrote:
> "Roland Perry"  wrote in message
>
> news:s$VKKOskW1eIFAMR@perry.co.uk...
>
> > In message
> > , at
> > 06:08:32 on Mon, 14 Jul 2008, allan tracy  > remarked:
> >>Call me biased but I think the trains were the stars of the show last
> >>night.
>
> > It was great fun. I especially liked the splitting metro train. And at one
> > point the car was filmed going over a bridge across Tokyo Bay with a hotel
> > I'd stayed at a few years ago in distant view. Here's the bridge viewed
> > from the hotel (and no, I wasn't in New York by mistake):
>
> Are you sure you weren't in Paris by mistake?

Or las Vegas?

Stephen wrote:
>  wrote in message 
> news:enfo745jqlgl455pnc1c6khmdlao3mo5gg@4ax.com...
>>> I was too. "Late" is a minute over its due time and they recompense you
>>> with a free rail trip and a letter to your employer to explain why you
>>> are late. Average delay times in the last year SIX SECONDS. Makes ours
>>> look like a right fooking joke.
>> It works both ways though, my mind goes back to that 'metro' train
>> that derailed whilst raised up above the ground a couple of years ago
>> and killed about 80 people. Why did it do that? Because the train was
>> running late and the driver wanted to get back on schedule. If their
>> answer to trains being late is to the blatantly break the speed limit
>> (I'm worried that it's even possible to do so without systems
>> preventing it) then I'm not sure I'm so keen on it.
> 
> And you don't think that this is done on any other railways? Many documented 
> take, for example, Hither Green. Driver pissed and doing excessive speed way 
> over the speed limit. 
> 
> 
Absolute rubbish. The cause of the crash at Hither Green, over 40 years 
ago, was found to be due to a broken rail.

If, however, you mean the Eltham, Well Hall rail crash (June 1972) then 
yes, that was where the driver's condition was as you described.

-- 
Moving things in still pictures!

"Peter Masson"  gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

> So you can think of a railway accident for which an intoxicated driver
> was responsible. It happemned about 25 years ago.
> 
> In that time well over 10,000 people have been killed in road accidents
> for which intoxicated drivers were responsible.
> 
> Get a sense of proportion.

Gosh, you're right.

They damn well ought to make it illegal.

In article <c4993fbf4f%Rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>, Graeme Wall says...
> In message 
>           Conor  wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> > your average Ford Focus pottering to work 
> > and back at 45MPH 
> 
> Not a concept I'm familiar with.
> 
> 
You should try moving out of the city...

lol.

-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Stephen wrote:
> "Peter Masson"  wrote in message 
> news:VNudncFMZ4EheeHVnZ2dnUVZ8rednZ2d@bt.com...
>> "Stephen"  wrote
>>> And you don't think that this is done on any other railways? Many
>> documented
>>> take, for example, Hither Green. Driver pissed and doing excessive speed
>> way
>>> over the speed limit.
>>>
>> Not Hither Green. ITYM Eltham Well Hall.
>>
>> So you can think of a railway accident for which an intoxicated driver was
>> responsible. It happemned about 25 years ago.
>>
>> In that time well over 10,000 people have been killed in road accidents 
>> for
>> which intoxicated drivers were responsible.
>>
>> Get a sense of proportion.
>>
> Lets just focus on the issue of the driver going too fast pissed or sober 
> then you get;
> Morpeth

Excess speed

> Morpeth (yes again!)

Drink

> Eltham

Excess speed and drink
> Paddington

The Paddington crash was as a result of a driver passing a signal when 
it was showing a red aspect

> Nuneaton

Driver error, partially due to the failure of lineside equipment warning 
of the speed restriction.

> Are a few that come immediately to mind. 
> 
> 
Stop posting crap. Morpeth x 2 and Eltham, yes, but not the other two.

-- 
Moving things in still pictures!

Why did it do that? Because the train was
> running late and the driver wanted to get back on schedule. If their
> answer to trains being late is to the blatantly break the speed limit
> (I'm worried that it's even possible to do so without systems
> preventing it) then I'm not sure I'm so keen on it.


AFAIA there is no automatic system on any UK railway to ensure drivers keep 
to speed limits, i have seen NR bods on the end of platforms before with 
radar guns checking drivers speeds as they come past.

james

In message 
          Conor  wrote:

> In article <c4993fbf4f%Rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>, Graeme Wall says...
> > In message 
> >           Conor  wrote:
> > 
> > [snip]
> > > your average Ford Focus pottering to work 
> > > and back at 45MPH 
> > 
> > Not a concept I'm familiar with.
> > 
> > 
> You should try moving out of the city...
> 

I move out of cities regularly, the thought of a Ford Focus doing a mere
45mph is what I am having trouble envisioning.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

In article <a3376cbf4f%Rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>, Graeme Wall says...
> In message 
>           Conor  wrote:
> 
> > In article <c4993fbf4f%Rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>, Graeme Wall says...
> > > In message 
> > >           Conor  wrote:
> > > 
> > > [snip]
> > > > your average Ford Focus pottering to work 
> > > > and back at 45MPH 
> > > 
> > > Not a concept I'm familiar with.
> > > 
> > > 
> > You should try moving out of the city...
> > 
> 
> I move out of cities regularly, the thought of a Ford Focus doing a mere
> 45mph is what I am having trouble envisioning.
> 
You should come to East Yorks..the majority of drivers seem to be 
unaware that they can go faster than 45.


-- 
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't 
looking good either. - Scott Adams

"Conor"  wrote in message 
news:6e4ebgF57qduU1@mid.individual.net...

> You should come to East Yorks..the majority of drivers seem to be
> unaware that they can go faster than 45.

In North Yorkshire the majority of cars are unable to go faster than 45.
Cheers
Jeff

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:29:12 +0100, ®i©ardo wrote:

> Stephen wrote:
>> "Peter Masson"  wrote in message 
>> news:VNudncFMZ4EheeHVnZ2dnUVZ8rednZ2d@bt.com...
>>> "Stephen"  wrote
>>>> And you don't think that this is done on any other railways? Many
>>> documented
>>>> take, for example, Hither Green. Driver pissed and doing excessive speed
>>> way
>>>> over the speed limit.
>>>>
>>> Not Hither Green. ITYM Eltham Well Hall.
>>>
>>> So you can think of a railway accident for which an intoxicated driver was
>>> responsible. It happemned about 25 years ago.
>>>
>>> In that time well over 10,000 people have been killed in road accidents 
>>> for
>>> which intoxicated drivers were responsible.
>>>
>>> Get a sense of proportion.
>>>
>> Lets just focus on the issue of the driver going too fast pissed or sober 
>> then you get;
>> Morpeth
> 
> Excess speed
> 
>> Morpeth (yes again!)
> 
> Drink
> 
>> Eltham
> 
> Excess speed and drink
>> Paddington
> 
> The Paddington crash was as a result of a driver passing a signal when 
> it was showing a red aspect
> 
I suspect the poster was referring to the 1983 derailment of the Penzance
sleeper, resulting from excessive speed on the approach to Paddington, and
culminating in 50041 'coming in sideways'.

-- 
WZR

"jamesd1974"  wrote
>
> AFAIA there is no automatic system on any UK railway to ensure drivers
keep
> to speed limits, i have seen NR bods on the end of platforms before with
> radar guns checking drivers speeds as they come past.
>
There is, at least on High Speed 1 (the Channel Tunnel Rail Link), the
Channel Tunnel itself, the Great Western Main Line, and some lines on London
Underground. Train Protection and Warning System can be used to enforce
fixed speed limits, though I am not sure how far it has been installed for
this purpose, though it is used at many signals, and at the approach to
buffer stops.

Peter

On 15 Jul, 18:56, "Peter Masson"  wrote:
> > And you don't think that this is done on any other railways? Many
> documented
> > take, for example, Hither Green. Driver pissed and doing excessive speed
> way
> > over the speed limit.
>
> Not Hither Green. ITYM Eltham Well Hall.
>
> So you can think of a railway accident for which an intoxicated driver was
> responsible. It happemned about 25 years ago.

Unless I've been through a bizarre timewarp and this is 1997, ITYM 35
years ago...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

In message 
          Conor  wrote:

> In article <a3376cbf4f%Rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>, Graeme Wall says...
> > In message 
> >           Conor  wrote:
> > 
> > > In article <c4993fbf4f%Rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>, Graeme Wall says...
> > > > In message 
> > > >           Conor  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > [snip]
> > > > > your average Ford Focus pottering to work 
> > > > > and back at 45MPH 
> > > > 
> > > > Not a concept I'm familiar with.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > You should try moving out of the city...
> > > 
> > 
> > I move out of cities regularly, the thought of a Ford Focus doing a mere
> > 45mph is what I am having trouble envisioning.
> > 
> You should come to East Yorks..the majority of drivers seem to be 
> unaware that they can go faster than 45.
> 
> 

Not sure my visa is valid for East Yorks :-)

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

"John B"  wrote
> >
&g