Hello,

What are the rules with regards to platform access at stations? Can I
enter a platform at any time if I have a valid ticket for travel? Or
do I have to wait until I am "allowed"? I am thinking specifically of
St Pancras EMT services.

Thanks

On Jul 2, 9:27 am, cqmman  wrote:
> What are the rules with regards to platform access at stations? Can I
> enter a platform at any time if I have a valid ticket for travel? Or
> do I have to wait until I am "allowed"? I am thinking specifically of
> St Pancras EMT services.

It's up to the station operator and the TOC. They can keep you off the
platform for as long as they like, and you are breaking the bylaws if
you ignore their instructions not to go on the platform.

Quite why EMT at St Pancras (and Virgin at Euston) feel the need to
keep passengers off the platform for so long, when all the other TOCs
are happy not to do so, is another question.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

In message 
, at 
01:27:42 on Wed, 2 Jul 2008, cqmman  remarked:
>What are the rules with regards to platform access at stations? Can I
>enter a platform at any time if I have a valid ticket for travel? Or
>do I have to wait until I am "allowed"? I am thinking specifically of
>St Pancras EMT services.

At that station they usually have a team of people manning the barrier, 
who then allow people onto the platform in the manner of "not quite just 
in time". So everyone then has to rush to get onto the departing train.

It's not helped when there are trains on either side of an island 
platform that are due to depart five minutes apart, which is the normal 
departure pattern.
-- 
Roland Perry

cqmman  wrote:
>
>What are the rules with regards to platform access at stations? Can I
>enter a platform at any time if I have a valid ticket for travel? Or
>do I have to wait until I am "allowed"? I am thinking specifically of
>St Pancras EMT services.


Thinking specifically of St Pancras EMT services, you should follow
the reasonable instructions of the staff who are controlling entry to
the platforms.  

They have a difficult job, which they carry out mostly with very good
humour.  Don't make it more difficult than it needs to be.

If you have a good reason for wanting to be on the platform before the
other passengers, ask a member of staff if you can have early access.
But don't be surprised if your request is politely declined.

In message , at 13:33:37 on 
Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Tony Polson  remarked:
>Thinking specifically of St Pancras EMT services, you should follow
>the reasonable instructions of the staff who are controlling entry to
>the platforms.

That's the way they have arranged the rules. "The passenger is always 
wrong" etc.

>They have a difficult job, which they carry out mostly with very good
>humour.  Don't make it more difficult than it needs to be.

The staff are the ones who make things difficult (for themselves as well 
as the passengers). By delaying boarding.

>If you have a good reason for wanting to be on the platform before the
>other passengers, ask a member of staff if you can have early access.
>But don't be surprised if your request is politely declined.

The passenger is always wrong, as usual.
-- 
Roland Perry

"John B"  wrote in message 
news:3ea2bdf9-14e7-4a26-bdda-c99c73bba022@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 2, 9:27 am, cqmman  wrote:
>> What are the rules with regards to platform access at stations? Can I
>> enter a platform at any time if I have a valid ticket for travel? Or
>> do I have to wait until I am "allowed"? I am thinking specifically of
>> St Pancras EMT services.
>
> It's up to the station operator and the TOC. They can keep you off the
> platform for as long as they like, and you are breaking the bylaws if
> you ignore their instructions not to go on the platform.
>
> Quite why EMT at St Pancras (and Virgin at Euston) feel the need to
> keep passengers off the platform for so long, when all the other TOCs
> are happy not to do so, is another question.
>

The same thing also applies at Blackpool North, so you sometimes get a long 
queue rushing to find a seat as little as 1 to 2 minutes before booked 
departure times.

(P.S. ,  regarding Blackpool North - the ticket barriers did not recognise 
Lancashire Day Ranger tickets on a recent visit there - unsure if the same 
applies to North West Rovers, etc., )

Bevan

On Jul 2, 9:27 am, cqmman  wrote:
> What are the rules with regards to platform access at stations? Can I
> enter a platform at any time if I have a valid ticket for travel? Or
> do I have to wait until I am "allowed"? I am thinking specifically of
> St Pancras EMT services.

One reason for restricting access to platforms until the train is in
and stopped is it reduces the risk of someone falling off the platform
under a moving train.

On 2 Jul, 21:17, "Bevan Price" <meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom> wrote:
> "John B"  wrote in message
>
> news:3ea2bdf9-14e7-4a26-bdda-c99c73bba022@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jul 2, 9:27 am, cqmman  wrote:
> >> What are the rules with regards to platform access at stations? Can I
> >> enter a platform at any time if I have a valid ticket for travel? Or
> >> do I have to wait until I am "allowed"? I am thinking specifically of
> >> St Pancras EMT services.
>
> > It's up to the station operator and the TOC. They can keep you off the
> > platform for as long as they like, and you are breaking the bylaws if
> > you ignore their instructions not to go on the platform.
>
> > Quite why EMT at St Pancras (and Virgin at Euston) feel the need to
> > keep passengers off the platform for so long, when all the other TOCs
> > are happy not to do so, is another question.
>
> The same thing also applies at Blackpool North, so you sometimes get a long
> queue rushing to find a seat as little as 1 to 2 minutes before booked
> departure times.
>
> (P.S. ,  regarding Blackpool North - the ticket barriers did not recognise
> Lancashire Day Ranger tickets on a recent visit there - unsure if the same
> applies to North West Rovers, etc., )
>
> Bevan

And most of the queue goes for the first set of doors instead of going
to the back carriages but they do that on platform 13/14 at Piccadilly
too.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:29:18 -0700 (PDT), spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com
wrote:

>One reason for restricting access to platforms until the train is in
>and stopped is it reduces the risk of someone falling off the platform
>under a moving train.

But it is not a reason that is practiced regularly, and it is
something that is far less likely to happen and cause injury at a
terminus than, say, what happens at Bletchley every day, which is that
I get off the 1912 arrival, and while walking up the platform am
"buzzed" by a Pendolino doing full linespeed through the station with
no warning at all.

I am not aware of this, despite being quite exhilarating, having
caused many accidents, if any.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In message 
, at 
17:29:18 on Thu, 3 Jul 2008, spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com remarked:
>> What are the rules with regards to platform access at stations? Can I
>> enter a platform at any time if I have a valid ticket for travel? Or
>> do I have to wait until I am "allowed"? I am thinking specifically of
>> St Pancras EMT services.
>
>One reason for restricting access to platforms until the train is in
>and stopped is it reduces the risk of someone falling off the platform
>under a moving train.

At St Pancras EMT the trains will typically have been stopped for half 
an hour before anyone is allowed to enter the platform.
-- 
Roland Perry

On 4 Jul, 12:01, Roland Perry  wrote:
> In message
> , at
> 17:29:18 on Thu, 3 Jul 2008, spuorgelg...@gowanhill.com remarked:
>
> >> What are the rules with regards to platform access at stations? Can I
> >> enter a platform at any time if I have a valid ticket for travel? Or
> >> do I have to wait until I am "allowed"? I am thinking specifically of
> >> St Pancras EMT services.
>
> >One reason for restricting access to platforms until the train is in
> >and stopped is it reduces the risk of someone falling off the platform
> >under a moving train.
>
> At St Pancras EMT the trains will typically have been stopped for half
> an hour before anyone is allowed to enter the platform.
> --
> Roland Perry

I think you'll find that they don't allow access to the train until:
- cleaning has been done
- seat reservations have been applied
- train crew are on the train.

Access to trains is alse denied at Sheffield, Derby and Nottingham (by
locking the doors), even though you're allowed on the platform, until
the crew are on board.

Rob

In message 
, at 
10:01:54 on Fri, 4 Jul 2008, rob499@hotmail.com remarked:
>> At St Pancras EMT the trains will typically have been stopped for half
>> an hour before anyone is allowed to enter the platform.
>
>I think you'll find that they don't allow access to the train until:
>- cleaning has been done
>- seat reservations have been applied
>- train crew are on the train.

I'm sure that's true. So waiting until the inbound train has stopped is 
completely irrelevant (that was the only point I was making).

>Access to trains is alse denied at Sheffield, Derby and Nottingham (by
>locking the doors), even though you're allowed on the platform, until
>the crew are on board.

They often lock the doors at Nottingham long after the crew is on board. 
They generally seem to be opened about ten minutes before departure, 
which isn't so bad with HSTs, but waiting alongside a Meridian is very 
tiring due to the engine noise.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:29:18 -0700 (PDT),
spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com mangled uncounted electrons thus:

>On Jul 2, 9:27 am, cqmman  wrote:
>> What are the rules with regards to platform access at stations? Can I
>> enter a platform at any time if I have a valid ticket for travel? Or
>> do I have to wait until I am "allowed"? I am thinking specifically of
>> St Pancras EMT services.
>
>One reason for restricting access to platforms until the train is in
>and stopped is it reduces the risk of someone falling off the platform
>under a moving train.

Clearly you've never used Liverpool Street in either the morning
or evening rushes. In the morning there are 2 NXEA services that
come in often about 45 seconds to 1 minute apart, on the same
'island' (platforms 12 and 13 IIRC - I'm usually on one of the
services). People are happily streaming towards the barriers from
the first arrival while the second glides in literally inches
from them...

At both ends of the day there's pretty much unrestricted access
to platforms, whether there's a train there or not (which can be
amusing if a lot of people have walked up to the head of the
platform to claim their usual seats and there's then a platform
alteration or a cancellation) and to outbound trains sitting
unattended awaiting the crew ** . The latter sometimes results in
punters being chivvied off a 'depot only' unit in the morning,
but that just adds to the entertainment value for us regular
commuters...  ^_^

** The only exceptions are the loco-hauled Norwich services,
which remain secured until about 15 minutes before departure,
although the platforms are (almost) always open so people can
queue along the length of the train.

Martin D. Pay
It quite makes people jump, having a Mk 90 start up while they're
walking right alongside...  ^_^  ^_^  ^_^

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:29:18 -0700 (PDT), spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com
wrote:

>One reason for restricting access to platforms until the train is in
>and stopped is it reduces the risk of someone falling off the platform
>under a moving train.

At Paddington they just don't announce the platform untill shortly
before the train departs, leading to a swarm of passengers heading
from near the screens to the ticket gates ready for the scramble for a
seat.

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:01:54 -0700 (PDT), rob499@hotmail.com wrote in
,
seen in uk.railway:

[...]
> Access to trains is alse denied at Sheffield, Derby and Nottingham (by
> locking the doors), even though you're allowed on the platform, until
> the crew are on board.

Dunno about Sheffield or Derby, but I rarely now see doors locked on
222s at Nottingham, even when they're standing for 45 minutes plus
between departures. More likely to be locked on HSTs, but that's not
universal.

I suspect it may be a traincrew specific activity (as in: some do it,
some don't).

-- 
Ross. 
* Opinions are my own; my employer has disowned me again.
* Reply-to will bounce. Replace the junk-trap with my first name to e-mail me.

AD: <http://www.merciacharters.co.uk> for rail enthusiast tours in Europe

mcp@nildram.co.uk wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:29:18 -0700 (PDT), spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com
> wrote:
> 
>> One reason for restricting access to platforms until the train is in
>> and stopped is it reduces the risk of someone falling off the platform
>> under a moving train.
> 
> At Paddington they just don't announce the platform untill shortly
> before the train departs, leading to a swarm of passengers heading
> from near the screens to the ticket gates ready for the scramble for a
> seat.

Ditto at St Pancras MML.

Charlie

On 2008-07-05, Ross  wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:01:54 -0700 (PDT), rob499@hotmail.com wrote in
>,
> seen in uk.railway:
>
> [...]
>> Access to trains is alse denied at Sheffield, Derby and Nottingham (by
>> locking the doors), even though you're allowed on the platform, until
>> the crew are on board.
>
> Dunno about Sheffield or Derby, but I rarely now see doors locked on
> 222s at Nottingham, even when they're standing for 45 minutes plus
> between departures. More likely to be locked on HSTs, but that's not
> universal.
>
> I suspect it may be a traincrew specific activity (as in: some do it,
> some don't).
>

Maybe local management has lost interest so it is no longer universal,
but HSTs at Nottingham were always locked until 15 minutes before
departure -  because they don't have toilet retention tanks.

Of course, that's a universal problem - a few years ago Liverpool Street
platforms 11,12,13,14 were truly horrible.

E.

In message  of Sat, 5 Jul 
2008 10:31:14 in uk.railway, Eric  writes
>On 2008-07-05, Ross  wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:01:54 -0700 (PDT), rob499@hotmail.com wrote in
>>,
>> seen in uk.railway:
>>
>> [...]
>>> Access to trains is alse denied at Sheffield, Derby and Nottingham (by
>>> locking the doors), even though you're allowed on the platform, until
>>> the crew are on board.
>>
>> Dunno about Sheffield or Derby, but I rarely now see doors locked on
>> 222s at Nottingham, even when they're standing for 45 minutes plus
>> between departures. More likely to be locked on HSTs, but that's not
>> universal.
>>
>> I suspect it may be a traincrew specific activity (as in: some do it,
>> some don't).
>>
>
>Maybe local management has lost interest so it is no longer universal,
>but HSTs at Nottingham were always locked until 15 minutes before
>departure -  because they don't have toilet retention tanks.
>
>Of course, that's a universal problem - a few years ago Liverpool Street
>platforms 11,12,13,14 were truly horrible.
>
>E.

It is unhelpful that the concourse now charges 0.30UKP to spend a penny.
The "disabled" facilities on Platform 10 are free to RADAR key holders.
-- 
Walter Briscoe

In message , at 10:25:29 on 
Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Charlie Hulme  remarked:
>>  At Paddington they just don't announce the platform untill shortly
>> before the train departs, leading to a swarm of passengers heading
>> from near the screens to the ticket gates ready for the scramble for a
>> seat.
>
>Ditto at St Pancras MML.

Oh do keep up :) That was the station that started the thread!
-- 
Roland Perry

On 5 Jul, 00:37, m...@nildram.co.uk wrote:
> At Paddington they just don't announce the platform untill shortly
> before the train departs, leading to a swarm of passengers heading
> from near the screens to the ticket gates ready for the scramble for a
> seat.

I discovered recently the platform numbers are shown on Live
Departures Boards long before they show up on the screens in the
station. Handy if you have a web-enabled phone.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Roland Perry wrote:
> In message , at 10:25:29 on 
> Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Charlie Hulme  remarked:
>>>  At Paddington they just don't announce the platform untill shortly
>>> before the train departs, leading to a swarm of passengers heading
>>> from near the screens to the ticket gates ready for the scramble for a
>>> seat.
>>
>> Ditto at St Pancras MML.
> 
> Oh do keep up :) That was the station that started the thread!

Oh yes :-{

Charlie

On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 11:16:28 +0100, Walter Briscoe
 wrote:

>It is unhelpful that the concourse now charges 0.30UKP to spend a penny.

At Manc Picc this certainly causes a not insignificant number of
people to board waiting trains and use the facilities there instead,
and until more trains gained tanks it made the place stink.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In message , at 12:10:24 on Sat, 
5 Jul 2008, Neil Williams  remarked:
>>It is unhelpful that the concourse now charges 0.30UKP to spend a penny.

And if you want change: hard luck (a machine next to the gents at New 
Street a week ago)...  http://www.perry.co.uk/images/no-change.jpg
-- 
Roland Perry

On 5 Jul, 11:47, Mr Thant 
wrote:
> On 5 Jul, 00:37, m...@nildram.co.uk wrote:
>
> > At Paddington they just don't announce the platform untill shortly
> > before the train departs, leading to a swarm of passengers heading
> > from near the screens to the ticket gates ready for the scramble for a
> > seat.
>
> I discovered recently the platform numbers are shown on Live
> Departures Boards long before they show up on the screens in the
> station. Handy if you have a web-enabled phone.
>

Which werbsite is that?

The "live departures" on the NRE website doesn't appear to give
platform numbers. For example:
http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/ldb/sumdep.aspx?T=KGX

PaulO

"Paul Oter"  wrote in message
news:f9aed9e5-a6bf-4391-a8cb-7ab7b65fce90@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On 5 Jul, 11:47, Mr Thant 
> wrote:
> > On 5 Jul, 00:37, m...@nildram.co.uk wrote:
> >
> > > At Paddington they just don't announce the platform untill shortly
> > > before the train departs, leading to a swarm of passengers heading
> > > from near the screens to the ticket gates ready for the scramble for a
> > > seat.
> >
> > I discovered recently the platform numbers are shown on Live
> > Departures Boards long before they show up on the screens in the
> > station. Handy if you have a web-enabled phone.
> >
>
> Which werbsite is that?
>
> The "live departures" on the NRE website doesn't appear to give
> platform numbers. For example:
> http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/ldb/sumdep.aspx?T=KGX
>
It does for some stations, including Paddington (which is the subject of
this subthread).

Peter

On 5 Jul, 17:37, "Peter Masson"  wrote:
> "Paul Oter"  wrote in message
>
> news:f9aed9e5-a6bf-4391-a8cb-7ab7b65fce90@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On 5 Jul, 11:47, Mr Thant 
> > wrote:
> > > On 5 Jul, 00:37, m...@nildram.co.uk wrote:
>
> > > > At Paddington they just don't announce the platform untill shortly
> > > > before the train departs, leading to a swarm of passengers heading
> > > > from near the screens to the ticket gates ready for the scramble for a
> > > > seat.
>
> > > I discovered recently the platform numbers are shown on Live
> > > Departures Boards long before they show up on the screens in the
> > > station. Handy if you have a web-enabled phone.
>
> > Which werbsite is that?
>
> > The "live departures" on the NRE website doesn't appear to give
> > platform numbers. For example:
> >http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/ldb/sumdep.aspx?T=KGX
>
> It does for some stations, including Paddington (which is the subject of
> this subthread).
>

Yes, so it does! I wonder why this very useful information is
available for some stations and not the ones I use regularly
(Liverpool Street and King's Cross).

A few years ago, when WAGN ran services from both these stations its
website did show live departures with platform numbers for all its
stations. It seemed to be a genuine copy of the platform displays,
showing information messages such as "4 cars only". But this is long
gone.

PaulO

On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 00:37:30 +0100, mcp@nildram.co.uk wrote:

>On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:29:18 -0700 (PDT), spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com
>wrote:
>
>>One reason for restricting access to platforms until the train is in
>>and stopped is it reduces the risk of someone falling off the platform
>>under a moving train.
>
>At Paddington they just don't announce the platform untill shortly
>before the train departs, leading to a swarm of passengers heading
>from near the screens to the ticket gates ready for the scramble for a
>seat.

It is worse when the train turns out to be at a suburban platform!
-- 
Peter Lawrence

Peter Lawrence wrote:

>>At Paddington they just don't announce the platform untill shortly
>>before the train departs, leading to a swarm of passengers heading
>>from near the screens to the ticket gates ready for the scramble for a
>>seat.
> 
> It is worse when the train turns out to be at a suburban platform!

Indeed. Most people probably imagine they are so named because suburban
trains depart from them. But in true GWR tradition, they are called the
suburban platforms because that's where they are.

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632863.html
(33 062 at Portsmouth Harbour, 9 May 1985)

On Jul 5, 11:16 am, Walter Briscoe 
wrote:
> In message  of Sat, 5 Jul
> 2008 10:31:14 in uk.railway, Eric  writes
>
>
>
> >On 2008-07-05, Ross  wrote:
> >> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:01:54 -0700 (PDT), rob...@hotmail.com wrote in
> >>,
> >> seen in uk.railway:
>
> >> [...]
> >>> Access to trains is alse denied at Sheffield, Derby and Nottingham (by
> >>> locking the doors), even though you're allowed on the platform, until
> >>> the crew are on board.
>
> >> Dunno about Sheffield or Derby, but I rarely now see doors locked on
> >> 222s at Nottingham, even when they're standing for 45 minutes plus
> >> between departures. More likely to be locked on HSTs, but that's not
> >> universal.
>
> >> I suspect it may be a traincrew specific activity (as in: some do it,
> >> some don't).
>
> >Maybe local management has lost interest so it is no longer universal,
> >but HSTs at Nottingham were always locked until 15 minutes before
> >departure -  because they don't have toilet retention tanks.
>
> >Of course, that's a universal problem - a few years ago Liverpool Street
> >platforms 11,12,13,14 were truly horrible.
>
> >E.
>
> It is unhelpful that the concourse now charges 0.30UKP to spend a penny.
> The "disabled" facilities on Platform 10 are free to RADAR key holders.
> --
> Walter Briscoe

Morally wrong perhaps, but http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/?_nkw=radar+key&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270
for anyone interested.

In message 
 of 
Fri, 11 Jul 2008 03:09:25 in uk.railway, jdfi@hotmail.com writes
>On Jul 5, 11:16 am, Walter Briscoe 
>wrote:
>> In message  of Sat, 5 Jul
>> 2008 10:31:14 in uk.railway, Eric  writes
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 2008-07-05, Ross  wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:01:54 -0700 (PDT), rob...@hotmail.com wrote in
>> >>,
>> >> seen in uk.railway:
>>
>> >> [...]
>> >>> Access to trains is alse denied at Sheffield, Derby and Nottingham (by
>> >>> locking the doors), even though you're allowed on the platform, until
>> >>> the crew are on board.
>>
>> >> Dunno about Sheffield or Derby, but I rarely now see doors locked on
>> >> 222s at Nottingham, even when they're standing for 45 minutes plus
>> >> between departures. More likely to be locked on HSTs, but that's not
>> >> universal.
>>
>> >> I suspect it may be a traincrew specific activity (as in: some do it,
>> >> some don't).
>>
>> >Maybe local management has lost interest so it is no longer universal,
>> >but HSTs at Nottingham were always locked until 15 minutes before
>> >departure -  because they don't have toilet retention tanks.
>>
>> >Of course, that's a universal problem - a few years ago Liverpool Street
>> >platforms 11,12,13,14 were truly horrible.
>>
>> >E.
>>
>> It is unhelpful that the concourse now charges 0.30UKP to spend a penny.
>> The "disabled" facilities on Platform 10 are free to RADAR key holders.
>> --
>> Walter Briscoe
>
>Morally wrong perhaps, but 
>http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/?_nkw=radar+key&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270
>for anyone interested.

I was surprised to find these keys are generally available. 
<http://radar-shop.org.uk/> seems less reprehensible to me and 4.11UKP 
including VAT should not break the bank. Delivery was painfully slow.
I found the toilet location book irritating as post codes are not used. 
I emailed the author without response.

The keys available on ebay include some which are smaller and, when 
bought in quantity, significantly cheaper.

Google radar key gives a pile of options. ;)
-- 
Walter Briscoe