Has anyone travelled Krakow - Lviv (Lvov, Lemberg) and return? in the
Thomas Cook timetable it suggests that a change of trains may be
neccessary at the border, anyone know?

Guy

In message <6b092f07-2515-4e51-9974-cbc86c5e7e55@m44g2000hsc.googlegro 
ups.com>
          guy  wrote:

> Has anyone travelled Krakow - Lviv (Lvov, Lemberg) and return? in the
> Thomas Cook timetable it suggests that a change of trains may be
> neccessary at the border, anyone know?

> Guy

There must be a change of gauge, so a change of trains is very likely.

Michael Bell

--

On 1 Jul, 12:18, Michael Bell  wrote:
> In message <6b092f07-2515-4e51-9974-cbc86c5e7...@m44g2000hsc.googlegro
> ups.com>
>           guy  wrote:
>
> > Has anyone travelled Krakow - Lviv (Lvov, Lemberg) and return? in the
> > Thomas Cook timetable it suggests that a change of trains may be
> > neccessary at the border, anyone know?
> > Guy
>
> There must be a change of gauge, so a change of trains is very likely.
>
> Michael Bell
>
> --

Just checked further and there are some through trains (or through
coaches?) presumably with a bogie change at the border.

Guy

On Jul 1, 12:18 pm, Michael Bell  wrote:

> > Has anyone travelled Krakow - Lviv (Lvov, Lemberg)

> There must be a change of gauge, so a change of trains is very likely.

Rubbish.

Well at least it is rubbish in the general case - change of gauge does
*not* imply change of train

They have bogie changing equipment, most of the 1432/1520 mm gauge
borders have this facility. Whether or not they bogie change passenger
cars on this route I do not know.

--
Nick

D7666 wrote:

> Most of the 1432/1520 mm gauge borders have this facility. 

How long does it take to achieve the changeover?

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683851.html
(159 006 at Basingstoke, 26 Jan 1999)

On Jul 1, 5:40 pm, Chris  Tolley  wrote:

> > Most of the 1432/1520 mm gauge borders have this facility.

> How long does it take to achieve the changeover?


I've never done one mysekf but I've seen some of it going on with
freight wagons.

This link shows in quite some detail the operation at Brest on the
Belarus - Poland border.

http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15386

In the Q&A bit further down the times appear to suggest each train is
dealt with in around +/-2 h

That link was posted in misc.transport.rail.europe

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.rail.europe/browse_thread/thread/13a7610a4b5b1e06/46c8d0b41e7c7920?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=d7666+#46c8d0b41e7c7920
entitled ''Boogie changing at Brest (Belarus)'' with boogie spelled
that way.

--
Nick

On Jul 1, 5:50 pm, D7666  wrote:



And if you want to hear what one of those ChME3 things sounds like in
non-silenced form

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM2rR2fl3yY&feature=related

which is a Slovak 770 but the same thing, CKD built nearly 7500 for
Soviet railways alone.

--
Nick

D7666 wrote:
> On Jul 1, 12:18 pm, Michael Bell  wrote:
> 
>>> Has anyone travelled Krakow - Lviv (Lvov, Lemberg)
> 
>> There must be a change of gauge, so a change of trains is very likely.
> 
> Rubbish.
> 
> Well at least it is rubbish in the general case - change of gauge does
> *not* imply change of train
> 
> They have bogie changing equipment, most of the 1432/1520 mm gauge
> borders have this facility. Whether or not they bogie change passenger
> cars on this route I do not know.

I think that route used a Polish design of axle-adjusting gadget, rather 
than a bogie swap?

Though EGTRE warns
http://www.steane.com/egtre/borders/xings.php?country=PL&freight=noshow&closed=noshow#SHOW

(Przemyśl -) Medyka PKP - Mostiska 2 UZ: [E] Both gauges are used with 
currently passenger services only on the 1520mm gauge and operated by 
UZ. From 2004 PKP had worked cross border on a through Kraków and Kiev 
service on three days a week via the standard gauge line to/from a new 
SUW2000 gauge changing facilities at Mostiska 2, but following an 
incident there on 3 October 2006, a change of train from Standard to 
Broad gauge is now required at Przemyśl.

-- 
Arthur Figgis               Surrey, UK

On Jul 1, 6:44 pm, Arthur Figgis <afig...@example.com.invalid> wrote:

> > On Jul 1, 12:18 pm, Michael Bell  wrote:
> >> There must be a change of gauge, so a change of trains is very likely.

> > Well at least it is rubbish in the general case - change of gauge does
> > *not* imply change of train

> incident there on 3 October 2006, a change of train from Standard to
> Broad gauge is now required at Przemy¶l.

OK that might explain this particular route; however my general
comment still stands - a change of gauge does not imp[ly a change of
gauge.

--
Nick

On 1 Jul, 17:50, D7666  wrote:
> On Jul 1, 5:40 pm, Chris  Tolley  wrote:
>
> > > Most of the 1432/1520 mm gauge borders have this facility.
> > How long does it take to achieve the changeover?
>
> I've never done one mysekf but I've seen some of it going on with
> freight wagons.
>
> This link shows in quite some detail the operation at Brest on the
> Belarus - Poland border.
>
> http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15386
>
> In the Q&A bit further down the times appear to suggest each train is
> dealt with in around 2 h
>
> That link was posted in misc.transport.rail.europe
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.rail.europe/browse_thre...
> entitled ''Boogie changing at Brest (Belarus)'' with boogie spelled
> that way.
>
> --
> Nick

Two hours sounds about right, as a you can get to Krakow from Lviv 2
hours quicker if you change trains at the border rather than staying
on the though coach

Guy

My current Czech timetable shows one throughs service each way.PKP R7310/UZD 
52 leaves Krakow at 1305 and arrives at Lviv at 2346.  It spends 2.5 hrs 
roughly at Przemysl (arr 1658 dep 1924) and 1 hr at Mostika 2 (arr 2122 dep 
2222) (on the Ukranian side).  Through coaches are shown not only from 
Krakov but also from Prague HL n dep 2124 by R201 (Silesia) though they hang 
around at Krakov from 0622

The return lraves :Lviv at 0718 (UZD 51), arr Mostika 2 8.43, dep 9.37 arr 
Przemysl 0926 polish time, dep 1206 as R3710 and arr Krakow at 1548. 
(through coaches from Kiev dep 2041)

Through coasches again (dep 2226) to Prague hl n arr 0645 (R200 Silesia)

A friend who has been to Lviv says getting international tickets can be very 
difficult.  The office that sells them is unmarked, upstairs in the building 
and at the end of the corridor (I'll ask him for more details if you want to 
know more)

On 1 Jul, 11:04, guy  wrote:
> Has anyone travelled Krakow - Lviv (Lvov, Lemberg) and return? in the
> Thomas Cook timetable it suggests that a change of trains may be
> neccessary at the border, anyone know?

I haven't done Krakow - Lviv, but I have done Przemysl - Lviv.  Flew
into Rzeszow, picked up a bus to Przemysl, then got the train there.
There didn't seem to be any through services.  Found it easy to get a
ticket at Przemysl, although international tickets aren't sold at the
main ticket office, but at a totally separate office at the other side
of the station, where the Lviv train leaves from.

You had to get to the station about an hour before the train was due
to leave to go through customs.  The station was full of Ukrainians
taking enormous amounts of consumer goods back across the border.
Customers officers seemed quite used to this and didn't turn a hair.
Once through customs, you were put into a wire pen (seriously!) which
was actually a bit frightening as it filled up with people with all
their stuff.  Finally they opened the gate and all these Ukrainians
sprinted down to the train, even though by the time I got there there
were still loads of seats.

Certainly an interesting experience!  If memory serves, there is a
direct Berlin to Odessa service which I think passes through Krakow
and Lviv.

Patrick