BBC news item below:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7480690.stm

Manchester Evening news claims there were 'up to 300' people 
aboard the single vehicle"

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1056061_more_tram_chaos_expected

Charlie

=============================================================

Metrolink services are returning to normal in Manchester 
after a tram derailed in the city centre.

A city-bound late-night shuttle service tram came off the 
tracks at the junction of Moseley Street and Princess Street 
on Sunday.

One person was taken to hospital with minor injuries.

Services are running as normal between Altrincham and G-Mex, 
and between Bury and Piccadilly. Services to Eccles have 
also resumed but there are some delays.

Moseley Street was closed to traffic and part of Princess 
Street was shut earlier while a crane was brought in to 
remove the tram.

Music fans

The Rail Accident Investigation Branch is staging an inquiry 
and has carried out investigations at the scene.

Philip Purdy, from Metrolink, said: "Besides the damage to 
the vehicle and trying to get the vehicle back on the 
tracks, you can obviously see there's been some damage to 
the overhead cable.

"The biggest issue is trying to get the overhead wire back 
in place so we can run future services."

A Metrolink spokesman said they did not have an exact figure 
for the number of people on board, but said there were 
"quite a few".

Services do not normally run late on a Sunday, but the tram 
was part of a special shuttle service to transport those 
attending a Radiohead concert at Old Trafford cricket ground.

An eyewitness, who was standing in St Peter's Square when 
the crash happened, said: "The tram had just left the stop 
and was full of Radiohead fans returning from Old Trafford.

"The rear carriage left the rails, travelling about 20m 
(66ft) close to the tracks, then another 20m (66ft) or so 
after hitting the kerb.

"The only thing that stopped the tram going sideways was the 
kerb. It knocked over a power cable support before stopping.

"There was clearly nothing the driver could do."

Charlie Hulme  wrote in
news:2x9ak.72107$GF6.64999@newsfe27.ams2: 

> BBC news item below:
> 
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7480690.stm
> 
> Manchester Evening news claims there were 'up to 300' people 
> aboard the single vehicle"

Well, at least the passengers were happy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUqxxrvqcKs


Rick.

On 30 Jun, 19:23, Charlie Hulme  wrote:
> BBC news item below:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7480690.stm
>
> Manchester Evening news claims there were 'up to 300' people
> aboard the single vehicle"
>
> http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1056061_more_tram_chaos...
>
> Charlie
>
> =============================================================
>
> Metrolink services are returning to normal in Manchester
> after a tram derailed in the city centre.
>
> A city-bound late-night shuttle service tram came off the
> tracks at the junction of Moseley Street and Princess Street
> on Sunday.
>
> One person was taken to hospital with minor injuries.
>
> Services are running as normal between Altrincham and G-Mex,
> and between Bury and Piccadilly. Services to Eccles have
> also resumed but there are some delays.
>
> Moseley Street was closed to traffic and part of Princess
> Street was shut earlier while a crane was brought in to
> remove the tram.
>
> Music fans
>
> The Rail Accident Investigation Branch is staging an inquiry
> and has carried out investigations at the scene.
>
> Philip Purdy, from Metrolink, said: "Besides the damage to
> the vehicle and trying to get the vehicle back on the
> tracks, you can obviously see there's been some damage to
> the overhead cable.
>
> "The biggest issue is trying to get the overhead wire back
> in place so we can run future services."
>
> A Metrolink spokesman said they did not have an exact figure
> for the number of people on board, but said there were
> "quite a few".
>
> Services do not normally run late on a Sunday, but the tram
> was part of a special shuttle service to transport those
> attending a Radiohead concert at Old Trafford cricket ground.
>
> An eyewitness, who was standing in St Peter's Square when
> the crash happened, said: "The tram had just left the stop
> and was full of Radiohead fans returning from Old Trafford.
>
> "The rear carriage left the rails, travelling about 20m
> (66ft) close to the tracks, then another 20m (66ft) or so
> after hitting the kerb.
>
> "The only thing that stopped the tram going sideways was the
> kerb. It knocked over a power cable support before stopping.
>
> "There was clearly nothing the driver could do."

How do you get 300 people on one of them most i seen is proberly just
short of 200 and that was hell

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:14:47 -0700 (PDT), Connaire
 wrote:

>On 30 Jun, 19:23, Charlie Hulme  wrote:
>> BBC news item below:
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7480690.stm
>>
>> Manchester Evening news claims there were 'up to 300' people
>> aboard the single vehicle"
>>
>> http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1056061_more_tram_chaos...
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> =============================================================
>>
>> Metrolink services are returning to normal in Manchester
>> after a tram derailed in the city centre.
>>
>> A city-bound late-night shuttle service tram came off the
>> tracks at the junction of Moseley Street and Princess Street
>> on Sunday.
>>
>> One person was taken to hospital with minor injuries.
>>
>> Services are running as normal between Altrincham and G-Mex,
>> and between Bury and Piccadilly. Services to Eccles have
>> also resumed but there are some delays.
>>
>> Moseley Street was closed to traffic and part of Princess
>> Street was shut earlier while a crane was brought in to
>> remove the tram.
>>
>> Music fans
>>
>> The Rail Accident Investigation Branch is staging an inquiry
>> and has carried out investigations at the scene.
>>
>> Philip Purdy, from Metrolink, said: "Besides the damage to
>> the vehicle and trying to get the vehicle back on the
>> tracks, you can obviously see there's been some damage to
>> the overhead cable.
>>
>> "The biggest issue is trying to get the overhead wire back
>> in place so we can run future services."
>>
>> A Metrolink spokesman said they did not have an exact figure
>> for the number of people on board, but said there were
>> "quite a few".
>>
>> Services do not normally run late on a Sunday, but the tram
>> was part of a special shuttle service to transport those
>> attending a Radiohead concert at Old Trafford cricket ground.
>>
>> An eyewitness, who was standing in St Peter's Square when
>> the crash happened, said: "The tram had just left the stop
>> and was full of Radiohead fans returning from Old Trafford.
>>
>> "The rear carriage left the rails, travelling about 20m
>> (66ft) close to the tracks, then another 20m (66ft) or so
>> after hitting the kerb.
>>
>> "The only thing that stopped the tram going sideways was the
>> kerb. It knocked over a power cable support before stopping.
>>
>> "There was clearly nothing the driver could do."
>
>How do you get 300 people on one of them most i seen is proberly just
>short of 200 and that was hell
>
If it was a pop concert then I suspect the average size of person
concerned was a bit less than the typical passenger..

In message 
          Charles Ellson  wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:14:47 -0700 (PDT), Connaire
>  wrote:

>>On 30 Jun, 19:23, Charlie Hulme  wrote:
>>> BBC news item below:
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7480690.stm
>>>
>>> Manchester Evening news claims there were 'up to 300' people
>>> aboard the single vehicle"
>>>
>>> http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1056061_more_tram_chaos...
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> =============================================================
>>>
>>> Metrolink services are returning to normal in Manchester
>>> after a tram derailed in the city centre.
>>>
>>> A city-bound late-night shuttle service tram came off the
>>> tracks at the junction of Moseley Street and Princess Street
>>> on Sunday.
>>>
>>> One person was taken to hospital with minor injuries.
>>>
>>> Services are running as normal between Altrincham and G-Mex,
>>> and between Bury and Piccadilly. Services to Eccles have
>>> also resumed but there are some delays.
>>>
>>> Moseley Street was closed to traffic and part of Princess
>>> Street was shut earlier while a crane was brought in to
>>> remove the tram.
>>>
>>> Music fans
>>>
>>> The Rail Accident Investigation Branch is staging an inquiry
>>> and has carried out investigations at the scene.
>>>
>>> Philip Purdy, from Metrolink, said: "Besides the damage to
>>> the vehicle and trying to get the vehicle back on the
>>> tracks, you can obviously see there's been some damage to
>>> the overhead cable.
>>>
>>> "The biggest issue is trying to get the overhead wire back
>>> in place so we can run future services."
>>>
>>> A Metrolink spokesman said they did not have an exact figure
>>> for the number of people on board, but said there were
>>> "quite a few".
>>>
>>> Services do not normally run late on a Sunday, but the tram
>>> was part of a special shuttle service to transport those
>>> attending a Radiohead concert at Old Trafford cricket ground.
>>>
>>> An eyewitness, who was standing in St Peter's Square when
>>> the crash happened, said: "The tram had just left the stop
>>> and was full of Radiohead fans returning from Old Trafford.
>>>
>>> "The rear carriage left the rails, travelling about 20m
>>> (66ft) close to the tracks, then another 20m (66ft) or so
>>> after hitting the kerb.
>>>
>>> "The only thing that stopped the tram going sideways was the
>>> kerb. It knocked over a power cable support before stopping.
>>>
>>> "There was clearly nothing the driver could do."
>>
>>How do you get 300 people on one of them most i seen is proberly just
>>short of 200 and that was hell
>>
> If it was a pop concert then I suspect the average size of person
> concerned was a bit less than the typical passenger..

More interestingly, what caused it? The witness does not describe any 
obstacle on the track, so presumably some track or wheel fault.

Michael Bell




--

One incident in the city centre and the Eccles service goes bus only!
- Why - when the Alty services were being turned at Central?

Surely the Eccles service could have run from Cornbrook - or were
there only one or two sets left west of the incident and these got
allocated to the Alty service for convenience?

The system is far from incident "proof" and it shows

TBirdFrank wrote:

> One incident in the city centre and the Eccles service goes bus only!
> - Why - when the Alty services were being turned at Central?
> 
> Surely the Eccles service could have run from Cornbrook - or were
> there only one or two sets left west of the incident and these got
> allocated to the Alty service for convenience?

The latter would surely have been the case, as the
service had been extended beyond normal Sunday hours to
serve the concert. The Altrincham service is busier
that the Eccles one, so it surely was the right
decision under the circumstances to concentrate stock
there.

> 
> The system is far from incident "proof" and it shows
> 

The additional depot at Old Trafford and the proposed
extra route down Deansgate will help in this respect,
hopefully. It's true that any blockage of the street-
running sections in the city isolates the Altrincham
and Eccles lines from the Depot.

All the same, the city centre line would have certainly
been much better underground and connected to the main
lines.

Charlie

"Michael Bell"  wrote in message
news:2049e8b74f.michaelbell@michael.beaverbell.co.uk...
> In message 
>           Charles Ellson  wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:14:47 -0700 (PDT), Connaire
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >>How do you get 300 people on one of them most i seen is proberly just
> >>short of 200 and that was hell
> >>
> > If it was a pop concert then I suspect the average size of person
> > concerned was a bit less than the typical passenger..
>
> More interestingly, what caused it? The witness does not describe any
> obstacle on the track, so presumably some track or wheel fault.
>
Perhaps there were 300 people on it and it derailed as a consequence of
being overloaded. ;-)

Peter

"Peter Masson"  wrote in message 
news:DaCdnQC53c-Fv_fVnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Michael Bell"  wrote in message
> news:2049e8b74f.michaelbell@michael.beaverbell.co.uk...

>> More interestingly, what caused it? The witness does not describe any
>> obstacle on the track, so presumably some track or wheel fault.
>>
> Perhaps there were 300 people on it and it derailed as a consequence of
> being overloaded. ;-)
>

Cue calls for compulsory seat reservations and no standing...

Paul

Paul Scott wrote:

> Cue calls for compulsory seat reservations and no standing...

On a tram?!

Neil

Neil  Williams  writes:

> Paul Scott wrote:
>
>> Cue calls for compulsory seat reservations and no standing...
>
> On a tram?!

It's no dafter than the (thankfully now abandoned) proposals for
metal detector arches at all tube & railway stations.

-- 
Time is never wasted when you're wasted all the time

On 1 Jul, 13:25, "Peter Masson"  wrote:
> "Michael Bell"  wrote in message
>
> news:2049e8b74f.michaelbell@michael.beaverbell.co.uk...> In message 
> >           Charles Ellson  wrote:
>
> > > On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:14:47 -0700 (PDT), Connaire
> > >  wrote:
>
> > >>How do you get 300 people on one of them most i seen is proberly just
> > >>short of 200 and that was hell
>
> > > If it was a pop concert then I suspect the average size of person
> > > concerned was a bit less than the typical passenger..
>
> > More interestingly, what caused it? The witness does not describe any
> > obstacle on the track, so presumably some track or wheel fault.
>
> Perhaps there were 300 people on it and it derailed as a consequence of
> being overloaded. ;-)
>
> Peter

The RIAB says

Investigation into a tram derailment in St Peter's Square, Manchester,
on 29 June 2008

The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into the derailment of a
Manchester Metrolink tram at St Peters Square, Manchester during the
evening of 29 June 2008.
The 22:44 hrs tram from Altrincham, consisting of trams 1008 and 1016,
had just departed from St Peter’s Square stop travelling along Mosley
Street towards the city centre when the middle bogie of the rear unit
derailed to the left at 23:10 hrs.  The tram travelled a further 100
metres before coming to a stop across the junction with Princess
Street, with the derailed bogie having partially mounted the
pavement.  No other wheels derailed.  One passenger was taken to
hospital with neck and back pain.

The tram damaged its own overhead electrical equipment poles and
signal stanchions, and the line was closed until 15:45 hrs on 30 June
2008.

On the basis of a preliminary examination there is no indication that
the condition or operation of the tram, or that of the signalling
system, contributed to the derailment.

The RAIB's investigation into the derailment is independent of any
investigations by the safety authority or the Police.

The RAIB will publish a report, including any recommendations to
improve safety, at the conclusion of its investigation.  This report
will be available on the RAIB website.

In message <0f9d4c5c-242e-4d96-be4e-d9116c28b9bc@l42g2000hsc.googlegro 
ups.com>
          MIG  wrote:

> On 1 Jul, 13:25, "Peter Masson"  wrote:
>> "Michael Bell"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:2049e8b74f.michaelbell@michael.beaverbell.co.uk...> In message
>> 
>>>           Charles Ellson  wrote:
>>
>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:14:47 -0700 (PDT), Connaire
>>>>  wrote:
>>
>>>>>How do you get 300 people on one of them most i seen is proberly just
>>>>>short of 200 and that was hell
>>
>>>> If it was a pop concert then I suspect the average size of person
>>>> concerned was a bit less than the typical passenger..
>>
>>> More interestingly, what caused it? The witness does not describe any
>>> obstacle on the track, so presumably some track or wheel fault.
>>
>> Perhaps there were 300 people on it and it derailed as a consequence of
>> being overloaded. ;-)
>>
>> Peter

> The RIAB says

> Investigation into a tram derailment in St Peter's Square, Manchester,
> on 29 June 2008

> The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into the derailment of a
> Manchester Metrolink tram at St Peters Square, Manchester during the
> evening of 29 June 2008.
> The 22:44 hrs tram from Altrincham, consisting of trams 1008 and 1016,
> had just departed from St Peter’s Square stop travelling along Mosley
> Street towards the city centre when the middle bogie of the rear unit
> derailed to the left at 23:10 hrs.  The tram travelled a further 100
> metres before coming to a stop across the junction with Princess
> Street, with the derailed bogie having partially mounted the
> pavement.  No other wheels derailed.  One passenger was taken to
> hospital with neck and back pain.

> The tram damaged its own overhead electrical equipment poles and
> signal stanchions, and the line was closed until 15:45 hrs on 30 June
> 2008.

> On the basis of a preliminary examination there is no indication that
> the condition or operation of the tram, or that of the signalling
> system, contributed to the derailment.

All that's left then is a track defect.

Michael Bell

--

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:25:19 +0100, "Peter Masson"
 wrote:

>
>"Michael Bell"  wrote in message
>news:2049e8b74f.michaelbell@michael.beaverbell.co.uk...
>> In message 
>>           Charles Ellson  wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:14:47 -0700 (PDT), Connaire
>> >  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>How do you get 300 people on one of them most i seen is proberly just
>> >>short of 200 and that was hell
>> >>
>> > If it was a pop concert then I suspect the average size of person
>> > concerned was a bit less than the typical passenger..
>>
>> More interestingly, what caused it? The witness does not describe any
>> obstacle on the track, so presumably some track or wheel fault.
>>
>Perhaps there were 300 people on it and it derailed as a consequence of
>being overloaded. ;-)

Many a true word spoken (written) in jest.

Isn't there some sort of rule about the centre of gravity of a vehicle
being affected by overloading?

I recall DB slapping draconian speed restrictions on trains in 1989
when the Iron Curtain came down, because of serious overcrowding. I'm
sure I remember reading that the centre of gravity played a role in
this.

Perhaps it was too many boisterous kids partying on the overladen tram
which derailed it?

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:44:16 +0100, Michael Bell
 wrote:

>In message <0f9d4c5c-242e-4d96-be4e-d9116c28b9bc@l42g2000hsc.googlegro 
>ups.com>
>          MIG  wrote:
>
>> On 1 Jul, 13:25, "Peter Masson"  wrote:
>>> "Michael Bell"  wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:2049e8b74f.michaelbell@michael.beaverbell.co.uk...> In message
>>> 
>>>>           Charles Ellson  wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:14:47 -0700 (PDT), Connaire
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>How do you get 300 people on one of them most i seen is proberly just
>>>>>>short of 200 and that was hell
>>>
>>>>> If it was a pop concert then I suspect the average size of person
>>>>> concerned was a bit less than the typical passenger..
>>>
>>>> More interestingly, what caused it? The witness does not describe any
>>>> obstacle on the track, so presumably some track or wheel fault.
>>>
>>> Perhaps there were 300 people on it and it derailed as a consequence of
>>> being overloaded. ;-)
>>>
>>> Peter
>
>> The RIAB says
>
>> Investigation into a tram derailment in St Peter's Square, Manchester,
>> on 29 June 2008
>
>> The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into the derailment of a
>> Manchester Metrolink tram at St Peters Square, Manchester during the
>> evening of 29 June 2008.
>> The 22:44 hrs tram from Altrincham, consisting of trams 1008 and 1016,
>> had just departed from St Peter’s Square stop travelling along Mosley
>> Street towards the city centre when the middle bogie of the rear unit
>> derailed to the left at 23:10 hrs.  The tram travelled a further 100
>> metres before coming to a stop across the junction with Princess
>> Street, with the derailed bogie having partially mounted the
>> pavement.  No other wheels derailed.  One passenger was taken to
>> hospital with neck and back pain.
>
>> The tram damaged its own overhead electrical equipment poles and
>> signal stanchions, and the line was closed until 15:45 hrs on 30 June
>> 2008.
>
>> On the basis of a preliminary examination there is no indication that
>> the condition or operation of the tram, or that of the signalling
>> system, contributed to the derailment.
>
>All that's left then is a track defect.
>
Or a "foreign body" (not necessarily intentional) ?

Mike Roebuck  wrote in 
news:n5rk64t66qjrbf6khpek8nibv0ve1ul3tt@4ax.com:

 
> I recall DB slapping draconian speed restrictions on trains in 1989
> when the Iron Curtain came down, because of serious overcrowding. I'm
> sure I remember reading that the centre of gravity played a role in
> this.

There was a 30 km/h restriction placed on some grossly overcrowded trains 
at the time, but I don't recall the reason being because of a shift in the 
centre of gravity. Wasn't it more to do with overloading of the bogies' 
springs? 
 
> Perhaps it was too many boisterous kids partying on the overladen tram
> which derailed it?

Not many kids at a Radiohead concert; at the Manchester event though, 
boisterous is not too wide of the mark. One outbreak of moshing annoyed 
singer Thom Yorke enough to ask, "Who do we look like, the Arctic 
Monkeys?" 

Rick.

Peter Masson wrote:

> Perhaps there were 300 people on it and it derailed as a consequence of
> being overloaded. ;-)

Perhaps they were all pogoing.

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p10589945.html
(37 041 at London Liverpool Street, 4 Oct 1981)

"Chris Tolley"  wrote in message
news:153e2g7ac0th$.9so5mz5oumgi$.dlg@40tude.net...
> Peter Masson wrote:
>
> > Perhaps there were 300 people on it and it derailed as a consequence of
> > being overloaded. ;-)
>
> Perhaps they were all pogoing.
>
The Glasgow Subway are aware of the hazards of this sort of behaviour:
http://www.spt.co.uk/subway/football.html
"For your own safety, do not bounce on trains as this can cause damage and
may result in delays."

Peter

Chris Tolley wrote:
> Peter Masson wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps there were 300 people on it and it derailed as a consequence of
>> being overloaded. ;-)
> 
> Perhaps they were all pogoing.
> 

The pictures seem to suggest that something prevented the 
articulation from reverting to straight after the sharp
curve. Could overloading cause this?

Charlie

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:22:40 +0100, Charlie Hulme
 wrote:

>The additional depot at Old Trafford and the proposed
>extra route down Deansgate will help in this respect,
>hopefully. It's true that any blockage of the street-
>running sections in the city isolates the Altrincham
>and Eccles lines from the Depot.

Or Cross Street - they still haven't decided which one yet!

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:44:16 +0100, Michael Bell wrote:

> In message <0f9d4c5c-242e-4d96-be4e-d9116c28b9bc@l42g2000hsc.googlegro 
> ups.com>
>           MIG  wrote:
> 
>> > 
>> The RIAB says
> 
<snip>
> 
>> On the basis of a preliminary examination there is no indication that
>> the condition or operation of the tram, or that of the signalling
>> system, contributed to the derailment.
> 
> All that's left then is a track defect.
> 

I noticed some rather badly (to me) side-cut rails in the city centre
recently, though not in the area of this incident.  The 'check face' portion
(opposite the running edge) also looked more than a little worn at this
point.  As well as maintaining the flangeway, this acts in the manner of a
check rail, and assists in preventing flange climb.  

Intresting that the derailment was to the left, in the vicinity of a rather
sharp RH curve, so flange-climb resulting from a worn gauge face is a
possible cause.  Other derailments have occurred at the transition between
'plain' and tramway rails, which doesn't apply here.  

I'm not aware of any large-scale tramway rail replacement having taken place
since the original installation back in 1991 (ish), perhaps it's time for a
large dollop of relaying? 


-- 
WZR

On 1 Jul, 22:57, Cheeky  wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:22:40 +0100, Charlie Hulme
>
>  wrote:
> >The additional depot at Old Trafford and the proposed
> >extra route down Deansgate will help in this respect,
> >hopefully. It's true that any blockage of the street-
> >running sections in the city isolates the Altrincham
> >and Eccles lines from the Depot.
>
> Or Cross Street - they still haven't decided which one yet!

Cross Street would be better its nearer to the Arndale and such. Only
problem would be the connection into Victoria be a tight turn.

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:40:57 +0100, Charlie Hulme wrote:

> Chris Tolley wrote:
>> Peter Masson wrote:
>> 
>>> Perhaps there were 300 people on it and it derailed as a consequence of
>>> being overloaded. ;-)
>> 
>> Perhaps they were all pogoing.
>> 
> 
> The pictures seem to suggest that something prevented the 
> articulation from reverting to straight after the sharp
> curve. Could overloading cause this?
> 

You may have a point in that overcrowding affected the suspension and the
bogie's ability to turn into curves, however the RAIB page says the bogie
derailed to the left.  

Leaving St. Peter's Square platform trams encounter a RH curve, followed by
a LH one, so I would suggest it's more likely that the bogie failed to
negotiate this first curve and went 'straight on' (after a fashion).  The
same page says the bogie mounted the pavement, if it had failed to take the
second curve, I'd have expected the tram to have ended up across the road.

There's a photo on this page which looks to have been taken from the station
(also a useful video report with more views).  
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1056138_tram_investigation_launched
If so, it does suggest that the problem occurred on the first curve, there
appears to be some (flange?) damage to the block paving on the outside of
the curve.


-- 
WZR

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:23:56 +0100 someone who may be Charlie Hulme
 wrote this:-

>BBC news item below:
>
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7480690.stm

There was also a crash on the guided busway in Edinburgh
<http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Six-injured-after-triple-bus.4238633.jp>

The cause was the driver of one bus crashing into the rear of
another, for whatever reasons (and some of these reasons may mean no
blame is attached to the driver). Before they built the thing the
crashes in Adelaide from the same cause were pointed out to the
council.


-- 
  David Hansen, Edinburgh 
 I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:

> There was also a crash on the guided busway in Edinburgh
> <http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Six-injured-after-triple-bus.4238633.jp>
> 
> The cause was the driver of one bus crashing into the rear of
> another, for whatever reasons 

Really? Were they very large drivers?

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 15:26:16 -0700 (PDT), Connaire
 wrote:

>On 1 Jul, 22:57, Cheeky  wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:22:40 +0100, Charlie Hulme
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >The additional depot at Old Trafford and the proposed
>> >extra route down Deansgate will help in this respect,
>> >hopefully. It's true that any blockage of the street-
>> >running sections in the city isolates the Altrincham
>> >and Eccles lines from the Depot.
>>
>> Or Cross Street - they still haven't decided which one yet!
>
>Cross Street would be better its nearer to the Arndale and such. Only
>problem would be the connection into Victoria be a tight turn.

Not as bad (i.e. expensive) as getting it up from Deansgate!

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 23:17:04 +0100, WZR  wrote:
 
>
>I'm not aware of any large-scale tramway rail replacement having taken place
>since the original installation back in 1991 (ish), perhaps it's time for a
>large dollop of relaying? 

I think some is very close to being life expired and in need of
replacement... If this is the cause then it might well expedite the
process!

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 23:39:45 +0100, WZR  wrote:

>The
>same page says the bogie mounted the pavement, if it had failed to take the
>second curve, I'd have expected the tram to have ended up across the road.
>

Judging from the temporary repairs it appears that the bogie ran over
the edge of the pedestrian island separating traffic turning right
into St Peters Sq from that heading straight on on Princess Street
then continued running on the road surface before colliding with the
kerb and the OLE post outside the Cafe Nero on the corner of Mosely
and Princess Streets. There are broken kerbs patched with tarmac and
deep striations in the wearing course of the road.... Lucky the pole
was there or it would have demolished the gorner of the building!

On 1 Jul, 22:17, WZR  wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:44:16 퍝, Michael Bell wrote:
> > In message <0f9d4c5c-242e-4d96-be4e-d9116c28b...@l42g2000hsc.googlegro
> > ups.com>
> >           MIG  wrote:
>
> >> The RIAB says
>
> <snip>
>
> >> On the basis of a preliminary examination there is no indication that
> >> the condition or operation of the tram, or that of the signalling
> >> system, contributed to the derailment.
>
> > All that's left then is a track defect.
>
> I noticed some rather badly (to me) side-cut rails in the city centre
> recently, though not in the area of this incident.  The 'check face' portion
> (opposite the running edge) also looked more than a little worn at this
> point.  As well as maintaining the flangeway, this acts in the manner of a
> check rail, and assists in preventing flange climb.  
>
> Intresting that the derailment was to the left, in the vicinity of a rather
> sharp RH curve, so flange-climb resulting from a worn gauge face is a
> possible cause.  Other derailments have occurred at the transition between
> 'plain' and tramway rails, which doesn't apply here.  
>
> I'm not aware of any large-scale tramway rail replacement having taken place
> since the original installation back in 1991 (ish), perhaps it's time for a
> large dollop of relaying?
>
> --
> WZR

Those looking for clues to this incident might like to re-read the
report on a previous Metrolink derailment:

http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources/070416_R082007_Long_Millgate.pdf

Stuart J

On 2 Jul, 22:17, Cheeky  wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 15:26:16 -0700 (PDT), Connaire
>
>  wrote:
> >On 1 Jul, 22:57, Cheeky  wrote:
> >> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:22:40 +0100, Charlie Hulme
>
> >>  wrote:
> >> >The additional depot at Old Trafford and the proposed
> >> >extra route down Deansgate will help in this respect,
> >> >hopefully. It's true that any blockage of the street-
> >> >running sections in the city isolates the Altrincham
> >> >and Eccles lines from the Depot.
>
> >> Or Cross Street - they still haven't decided which one yet!
>
> >Cross Street would be better its nearer to the Arndale and such. Only
> >problem would be the connection into Victoria be a tight turn.
>
> Not as bad (i.e. expensive) as getting it up from Deansgate!

Knowing GMPTE and there crazy bus routing these days its going up
Deansgate!

On 2 Jul, 22:32, StuartJ  wrote:
> On 1 Jul, 22:17, WZR  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:44:16 퍝, Michael Bell wrote:
> > > In message <0f9d4c5c-242e-4d96-be4e-d9116c28b...@l42g2000hsc.googlegro> > > ups.com>
> > >           MIG  wrote:
>
> > >> The RIAB says
>
> > <snip>
>
> > >> On the basis of a preliminary examination there is no indication that> > >> the condition or operation of the tram, or that of the signalling
> > >> system, contributed to the derailment.
>
> > > All that's left then is a track defect.
>
> > I noticed some rather badly (to me) side-cut rails in the city centre
> > recently, though not in the area of this incident.  The 'check face' portion
> > (opposite the running edge) also looked more than a little worn at this
> > point.  As well as maintaining the flangeway, this acts in the manner of a
> > check rail, and assists in preventing flange climb.  
>
> > Intresting that the derailment was to the left, in the vicinity of a rather
> > sharp RH curve, so flange-climb resulting from a worn gauge face is a
> > possible cause.  Other derailments have occurred at the transition between
> > 'plain' and tramway rails, which doesn't apply here.  
>
> > I'm not aware of any large-scale tramway rail replacement having taken place
> > since the original installation back in 1991 (ish), perhaps it's time for a
> > large dollop of relaying?
>
> > --
> > WZR
>
> Those looking for clues to this incident might like to re-read the
> report on a previous Metrolink derailment:
>
> http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources/070416_R082007_Long_Millgate.pdf
>
> Stuart J

Do we know what radius the track was where the tram derailed on Sunday?