I know some timetables (NXEC in particular) are changing on May 18th, 
but should UK rail fares be going up too? I've seen no announcements to 
that effect at stations. I've just been surprised to see that my 
Shalford/Peterborough NXEC+connections First Advance 2 ticket is going 
up next week from £25 to £26.50. It last went up in January from £23.50 
to £25.

I thought the planned "simplifications" (aka price increases) weren't 
due until September for Advance fares.

-- 
Howard

In message , at 14:15:45 on 
Sat, 17 May 2008, Howard Fisher  remarked:
>I know some timetables (NXEC in particular) are changing on May 18th, 
>but should UK rail fares be going up too? I've seen no announcements to 
>that effect at stations. I've just been surprised to see that my 
>Shalford/Peterborough NXEC+connections First Advance 2 ticket is going 
>up next week from £25 to £26.50. It last went up in January from £23.50 
>to £25.
>
>I thought the planned "simplifications" (aka price increases) weren't 
>due until September for Advance fares.

Now:

Many train companies are reported to be making small price increases, 
and also 'corrections'. These are not very well announced to passengers.

eg my SOR to London is going up from £118 to £121.50, but silently; well 
nothing here anyway:

http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/EMTrains/AboutUs/News/

Arriva XC is also making big changes to some ticket availabilities, eg 
CDRs in the evening.

September:

There will be so many more changes, increases and "complifications" that 
I doubt we'll ever really get to the bottom of it all.
-- 
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry"  wrote in message 
news:wTUNRG$34tLIFAlf@perry.co.uk...
> In message , at 14:15:45 on 
> Sat, 17 May 2008, Howard Fisher  remarked:
>>I know some timetables (NXEC in particular) are changing on May 18th, but 
>>should UK rail fares be going up too? I've seen no announcements to that 
>>effect at stations. I've just been surprised to see that my 
>>Shalford/Peterborough NXEC+connections First Advance 2 ticket is going up 
>>next week from £25 to £26.50. It last went up in January from £23.50 to 
>>£25.
>>
>>I thought the planned "simplifications" (aka price increases) weren't due 
>>until September for Advance fares.
>
> Now:
>
> Many train companies are reported to be making small price increases, and 
> also 'corrections'. These are not very well announced to passengers.
>
> eg my SOR to London is going up from £118 to £121.50, but silently; well 
> nothing here anyway:
>
> http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/EMTrains/AboutUs/News/
>
> Arriva XC is also making big changes to some ticket availabilities, eg 
> CDRs in the evening.
>
> September:
>
> There will be so many more changes, increases and "complifications" that I 
> doubt we'll ever really get to the bottom of it all.
> -- 
> Roland Perry

But you can guarantee it won't benefit the passenger!!!!!

Tim

Roland Perry wrote:
> Many train companies are reported to be making small price increases,

NXEA are putting up Open Returns by 10% on Monday........

On 17 May, 14:15, Howard Fisher  wrote:
> I know some timetables (NXEC in particular) are changing on May 18th,
> but should UK rail fares be going up too? I've seen no announcements to
> that effect at stations. I've just been surprised to see that my
> Shalford/Peterborough NXEC犉쭢ꉻ First Advance 2 ticket is going
> up next week from £25 to £26.50. It last went up in January from £23.50
> to £25.
>
> I thought the planned "simplifications" (aka price increases) weren't
> due until September for Advance fares.
>
> --
> Howard

The name's of some of the RailCards have changed as well, I don't
remember that being discussed. Y-P's is now 16-25 and Family is now
the "Family & Friend's".

Roland Perry wrote:

> Many train companies are reported to be making small price increases, 
> and also 'corrections'. These are not very well announced to passengers.

Is there any evidence for any corrections that make particular fares
cheaper?
-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p10589945.html
(37 041 at London Liverpool Street, 4 Oct 1981)

In message <482eec41$0$2482$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>, at 15:32:41 on 
Sat, 17 May 2008, Great Eastern  remarked:
>> Many train companies are reported to be making small price increases,
>
>NXEA are putting up Open Returns by 10% on Monday........

Can you quote some examples.
-- 
Roland Perry

In message <1apqk8rf06wf0$.3vd3rfnajsrw$.dlg@40tude.net>, at 14:43:20 on 
Sat, 17 May 2008, Chris Tolley  remarked:
>> Many train companies are reported to be making small price increases,
>> and also 'corrections'. These are not very well announced to passengers.
>
>Is there any evidence for any corrections that make particular fares
>cheaper?

Yes, the fare which started much of the discussion (Harrow to Cambridge) 
was put up "too much", and is now apparently going to be reduced - but 
not below the previous fare (which was anomalously low).
-- 
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <482eec41$0$2482$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>, at 15:32:41 on 
> Sat, 17 May 2008, Great Eastern  remarked:
>>> Many train companies are reported to be making small price increases,
>>
>> NXEA are putting up Open Returns by 10% on Monday........
> 
> Can you quote some examples.


I will quote direct from the NXEA Fares Brief Number 71:

"Open Singles and Returns increase by an average of 10%

Most of these tickets are unregulated, so they can be increased without 
affecting our regulated fares baskets. As an example, the Standard Open 
Return from Norwich to London increases from £71 to £78, but from 
Norfolk stations beyond Norwich the SOR to London has been capped at £81 
to encourage business passengers to use the train for the whole journey. 
Open Returns to Stratford will, in most cases, be identical to the 
London fare.

Although these rises may not be popular with customers, a considerable 
amount of investment is being made in the business this year - most 
notably increasing the heavy cleaning of Mainline Intercity sets. 
Availability of Advance tickets during peak periods is being retained 
and indeed the number of price points is being expanded; customers may 
be advised to book well in advance for lower fares or, alternatively, to 
purchase season tickets if they make frequent trips to London."

"Howard Fisher"  wrote in message
news:lsqdnZSuVpYVR7PVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@pipex.net...
> I know some timetables (NXEC in particular) are changing on May 18th,
> but should UK rail fares be going up too? I've seen no announcements to
> that effect at stations. I've just been surprised to see that my
> Shalford/Peterborough NXEC+connections First Advance 2 ticket is going
> up next week from £25 to £26.50. It last went up in January from £23.50
> to £25.
>
> I thought the planned "simplifications" (aka price increases) weren't
> due until September for Advance fares.

Simply the fact that before fares were simplified, there were many advance
fares depending on how early in advance you booked. Now there is just one.
The most expensive one.

Marcus

In message <R5CdnUAr4-kEhrLVnZ2dnUVZ8rednZ2d@posted.plusnet>, at 
18:53:27 on Sat, 17 May 2008, Great Eastern  remarked:
>>> NXEA are putting up Open Returns by 10% on Monday........
>>  Can you quote some examples.
>
>I will quote direct from the NXEA Fares Brief Number 71:
>
>"Open Singles and Returns increase by an average of 10%
>
>Most of these tickets are unregulated, so they can be increased without 
>affecting our regulated fares baskets. As an example, the Standard Open 
>Return from Norwich to London increases from £71 to £78, but from 
>Norfolk stations beyond Norwich the SOR to London has been capped at 
>£81 to encourage business passengers to use the train for the whole 
>journey. Open Returns to Stratford will, in most cases, be identical to 
>the London fare.
>
>Although these rises may not be popular with customers, a considerable 
>amount of investment is being made in the business this year - most 
>notably increasing the heavy cleaning of Mainline Intercity sets. 
>Availability of Advance tickets during peak periods is being retained 
>and indeed the number of price points is being expanded; customers may 
>be advised to book well in advance for lower fares or, alternatively, 
>to purchase season tickets if they make frequent trips to London."

Hmm, I checked Cambridge to London and the SOR seems unchanged at £35.80 
which must dent the average a bit.
-- 
Roland Perry

Marcus Fox wrote:
> "Howard Fisher"  wrote
>> I thought the planned "simplifications" (aka price increases) weren't
>> due until September for Advance fares.
> 
> Simply the fact that before fares were simplified, there were many advance
> fares depending on how early in advance you booked. Now there is just one.
> The most expensive one.

Ok, so it looks like I was wrong, and it was the 18th May that Advance 
fares are changing. I see from my ticket that it just says "Advance" not 
"Advance n" for some value of n between 2 and 4 as it did previously.

But _if_ they have just replaced all the Advance tickets by a single 
one, the one I bought today certainly wasn't more expensive than many of 
the old ones, which for my seat ranged from £25 to £37 - so £26.50 is 
possibly a good price (for the passenger) to have standardised on.

Makes me think it's probably a mistake, though!

-- 
Howard

In message , at 19:38:38 on 
Sat, 17 May 2008, Howard Fisher  remarked:
>>> I thought the planned "simplifications" (aka price increases) weren't
>>> due until September for Advance fares.
>>  Simply the fact that before fares were simplified, there were many 
>>advance
>> fares depending on how early in advance you booked. Now there is just one.
>> The most expensive one.
>
>Ok, so it looks like I was wrong, and it was the 18th May that Advance 
>fares are changing. I see from my ticket that it just says "Advance" 
>not "Advance n" for some value of n between 2 and 4 as it did previously.
>
>But _if_ they have just replaced all the Advance tickets by a single 
>one, the one I bought today certainly wasn't more expensive than many 
>of the old ones, which for my seat ranged from £25 to £37 - so £26.50 
>is possibly a good price (for the passenger) to have standardised on.

The Advance <N> fares still exist [I have an Advance 3 for July in front 
of me] although the ticket says just "Advance".

What's supposedly being scrapped are the other-named AP fares like Apex, 
SuperAdvance and maybe even the famous Virgin Value [1].

(But not Megatrain, which is both spreading, and not called "Advance". 
<sigh>)

[1] Although they also seem to be reluctant to fall fully into line, 
with fares called "Value Advance".
-- 
Roland Perry

"Marcus Fox"  wrote in 
message news:PvCdnbfLuulHvbLVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Howard Fisher"  wrote in message
> news:lsqdnZSuVpYVR7PVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@pipex.net...
>> I know some timetables (NXEC in particular) are changing on May 18th,
>> but should UK rail fares be going up too? I've seen no announcements to
>> that effect at stations. I've just been surprised to see that my
>> Shalford/Peterborough NXEC+connections First Advance 2 ticket is going
>> up next week from £25 to £26.50. It last went up in January from £23.50
>> to £25.
>>
>> I thought the planned "simplifications" (aka price increases) weren't
>> due until September for Advance fares.
>
> Simply the fact that before fares were simplified, there were many advance
> fares depending on how early in advance you booked. Now there is just one.
> The most expensive one.
>

There are still differently priced Advance fares if you click on 'more 
fares' on the NR OJP. But a change a good few months ago (correctly IMO) 
stopped listing the whole range of advance fares, it now defaults to the 
cheapest available at the time, not (as you reckon) the most expensive 
one...

Paul

"Chris Tolley"  wrote in message 
news:1apqk8rf06wf0$.3vd3rfnajsrw$.dlg@40tude.net...
> Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> Many train companies are reported to be making small price increases,
>> and also 'corrections'. These are not very well announced to passengers.
>
> Is there any evidence for any corrections that make particular fares
> cheaper?

Yes - I posted a couple of weeks ago that SWT's new AP singles were less 
than half the price of the previous Apex and Super Apex fares. (Only a quid 
or so though...)

Paul

"Great Eastern"  wrote in message 
news:R5CdnUAr4-kEhrLVnZ2dnUVZ8rednZ2d@posted.plusnet...

> Although these rises may not be popular with customers, a considerable 
> amount of investment is being made in the business this year - most 
> notably increasing the heavy cleaning of Mainline Intercity sets.

ROFL!

Buying a few new Dysons, are they?

-- 
Brian

"Roland Perry"  wrote in message 
news:cgQ2dbNlzyLIFAzP@perry.co.uk...
> In message , at 19:38:38 on

> [1] Although they also seem to be reluctant to fall fully into line, with 
> fares called "Value Advance".

Seems to be fixed today, though.  Euston - Man Picc now just shows loads of 
plain vanilla 'Advance', if you click on the NR OJP 'more fares' link.

Might the older named Virgin Value fares have been still on sale up until 
yesterday, although if you'd bought one it would have arrived printed 
'Advance', IIRC this was one of the caveats on the National Rail site during 
the transitional few weeks...

Paul

On Sun, 18 May 2008 13:53:35 +0100, Paul Scott wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:
> "Roland Perry"  wrote in message 
> news:cgQ2dbNlzyLIFAzP@perry.co.uk...
> > In message , at 19:38:38 on
> 
> > [1] Although they also seem to be reluctant to fall fully into line, with 
> > fares called "Value Advance".
> 
> Seems to be fixed today, though.  Euston - Man Picc now just shows loads of 
> plain vanilla 'Advance', if you click on the NR OJP 'more fares' link.

Fixed font required for this one...

The current entry in the NFM for London Terminals to Manchester
Stations is:

LONDON TERMINALS 1072
MANCHESTER STNS 0438

rte CHESTERFIELD 129  
EMT      (S)    (R)  
FO     131.00 262.00 
SO     108.00 189.50 
WK  1S         69.00 
SV  9A  60.10  61.10 

rte Any Permitted 
VWC      (S)    (R)  
FO     180.00 360.00 
SO     115.00 230.00 
SV  9A  61.40  62.40 

rte AP EMT& CONNECT 486   
EMT      (S)    (R)    
1A  AR  14.00 
1B  AR  18.00 
1C  AR  24.00 
1D  AR  31.00 
1E  AR  47.00 
2C  AR   8.00 
2D  AR  10.00 
2E  AR  13.00 
2F  AR  18.00 
2G  AR  21.00 
2H  AR  25.00 
2I  AR  29.00 

rte VIRGIN TRNS ONLY 474  
VWC      (S)     (R)  
VB  VF         366.00 
BF  VU  155.00 
BG  VU  135.00 
BA  VX   91.50 
BB  VX   64.00 
BC  VX   44.00 
VG  VR          85.00 
FA  VA   53.00 
FB  VA   42.50 
FC  VA   32.50 
VA  VR   26.00 
VB  VR   20.50 
VC  VR   13.00 
VW  VW   15.00 

rte VWC & CONNECTNS 452  
VWC       (S)    (R)  
BF  VU  157.00 
BG  VU  137.00 
BA  VX   93.50 
BB  VX   66.00 
BC  VX   45.00 
FA  VA   54.00 
FB  VA   43.50 
FC  VA   33.50 
VA  VR   28.00 
VB  VR   21.50 
VC  VR   14.00 
 


Enjoy!

-- 
Ross. 
* Opinions are my own; my employer has disowned me again.
* Reply-to will bounce. Replace the junk-trap with my first name to e-mail me.

AD: <http://www.merciacharters.co.uk> for rail enthusiast tours in Europe

On Sun, 18 May 2008 17:33:59 +0100, Ross 
wrote:

>WK  1S         69.00 

What's that one?

Snipping the rest, it looks like the EMT fares have been changed over
but not the VT ones.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 17:33:59 +0100, Ross 
> wrote:
> 
>> WK  1S         69.00 
> 
> What's that one?

Weekender.

Travel out anytime on a Friday or Saturday.
Come home within four days, but not on the Friday.

Ross wrote:

...

> rte VIRGIN TRNS ONLY 474  
> VWC      (S)     (R)  
> VB  VF         366.00 
> BF  VU  155.00 
etc

...

I thought the company that set the fares was not allowed
to have its own TOC-specific tickets?

Charlie

On 19 May, 10:10, Charlie Hulme  wrote:
> > rte VIRGIN TRNS ONLY 474
> > VWC      (S)     (R)
> > VB  VF         366.00
> > BF  VU  155.00
>
> etc
>
> ...
>
> I thought the company that set the fares was not allowed
> to have its own TOC-specific tickets?
>

See discussion on Virgin Business First on a different thread - it is
allowed, as long as they cost *more* than the FOS/FOR [there also may
be some grandfathering of ex-NSE rights, as for "London Midland Only"
tickets to Milton Keynes].

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Charlie Hulme wrote:
> Ross wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
>> rte VIRGIN TRNS ONLY 474  VWC      (S)     (R)  VB  VF
>> 366.00 BF  VU  155.00
> etc
> 
> ...
> 
> I thought the company that set the fares was not allowed to have its
> own TOC-specific tickets?
> 

If that were the case, they wouldn't be able to have most Advance 
Purchase tickets, as the majority are for a TOC-specific route. ;)

Cheers,

Barry

Barry Salter wrote:
> Charlie Hulme wrote:
>> Ross wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> rte VIRGIN TRNS ONLY 474  VWC      (S)     (R)  VB  VF
>>> 366.00 BF  VU  155.00
>> etc
>>
>> ...
>>
>> I thought the company that set the fares was not allowed to have its
>> own TOC-specific tickets?
>>
> 
> If that were the case, they wouldn't be able to have most Advance 
> Purchase tickets, as the majority are for a TOC-specific route. ;)
> 

Ah - I see what happens now. AP tickets are always only valid for a 
specific train (and seat?), which is a way of achieving the same thing 
without actually making it a "TOC-specific ticket."

Manchester - London via Rugby is not a TOC-specific route as
it can be done with Northern or ATW to Crewe, then London
Midland. I intend to try this soon!

Charlie

"Charlie Hulme"  wrote in message 
news:QleYj.23110$1q4.7706@newsfe23.ams2...

>>> I thought the company that set the fares was not allowed to have its
>>> own TOC-specific tickets?
>>
>> If that were the case, they wouldn't be able to have most Advance 
>> Purchase tickets, as the majority are for a TOC-specific route. ;)
>
> Ah - I see what happens now. AP tickets are always only valid for a 
> specific train (and seat?), which is a way of achieving the same thing 
> without actually making it a "TOC-specific ticket."

The original privatisation rule was that a "lead operator" could create 
TOC-specific fares ONLY if they were advance-purchase fares (or if they fell 
into one or two other categories - eg. first class fares, special fares, 
temporary fares..)

-- 
Walter Mann

"Ross"  wrote in message 
news:d6m0345k7g76on685om1g52cvvt24jc43c@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 13:53:35 +0100, Paul Scott wrote in
> , seen in uk.railway:
>> "Roland Perry"  wrote in message
>> news:cgQ2dbNlzyLIFAzP@perry.co.uk...
>> > In message , at 19:38:38 on
>>
>> > [1] Although they also seem to be reluctant to fall fully into line, 
>> > with
>> > fares called "Value Advance".
>>
>> Seems to be fixed today, though.  Euston - Man Picc now just shows loads 
>> of
>> plain vanilla 'Advance', if you click on the NR OJP 'more fares' link.
>
> The current entry in the NFM for London Terminals to Manchester
> Stations is:
>
> rte VIRGIN TRNS ONLY 474

//// etc

> VB  VR   20.50
> VC  VR   13.00
> VW  VW   15.00

I think what matters though is what the passenger sees on the website - 
clearly all the Advance fare levels still need separate internal 
identifiers, even if just ADV1... ADVn, otherwise their availability can't 
be switched on and off for display purposes. I guess they'll all be visible 
at the ticket office machine too?

Paul

On 19 May, 14:46, "Walter Mann"  wrote:
> The original privatisation rule was that a "lead operator" could create
> TOC-specific fares ONLY if they were advance-purchase fares (or if they fell
> into one or two other categories - eg. first class fares, special fares,
> temporary fares..)

Indeed - some TOCS are using these 'temporary' fares - and keep
extending the expiry date. Seems they appear permanent....

On Sat, 17 May 2008 19:18:51 +0100, Roland Perry 
wrote:

>
>Hmm, I checked Cambridge to London and the SOR seems unchanged at £35.80 
>which must dent the average a bit.

Priced by FCC so NXEA can't touch it.

--
Ken
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

In message , at 19:21:28 on 
Mon, 19 May 2008, Ken  remarked:
>>Hmm, I checked Cambridge to London and the SOR seems unchanged at £35.80
>>which must dent the average a bit.
>
>Priced by FCC so NXEA can't touch it.

Have NXEA put up their "NXEA only" SOR to Liverpool St by 10% ?

[I have no idea, and no access to last week's fares now].
-- 
Roland Perry

On Mon, 19 May 2008 20:04:32 +0100, Roland Perry 
wrote:

>In message , at 19:21:28 on 
>Mon, 19 May 2008, Ken  remarked:
>>>Hmm, I checked Cambridge to London and the SOR seems unchanged at £35.80
>>>which must dent the average a bit.
>>
>>Priced by FCC so NXEA can't touch it.
>
>Have NXEA put up their "NXEA only" SOR to Liverpool St by 10% ?
>
>[I have no idea, and no access to last week's fares now].

The "NXEA only" is a Day Return, not an SOR. Valid on 0828 ex-LST and
all subsequent departures.  Remains at £14.00. And 1st class version
at, IIRC, £21.00.

Only SORs on NXEA from LST are Stansted Airport (remains at £26,
although SOS gone up £1 to £17), Cambridge (priced by FCC), Harwich
International (£27 to £28.50), Ipswich (£53 to £58) and all points
north thereof.
--
Ken
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **