Just a quick question:

Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the 
League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any 
special arrangements on the railways?

As far as I'm aware, pretty much every London service from Leeds stops at 
Doncaster, so there is quite the possibility of getting vast numbers of 
rival fans on board - not that that automatically means problems, but I 
would have thought it may be best avoided, perhaps especially on the return 
journey?

Also, is anyone aware if any "football specials" are planned?

Thanks

"Dave X"  wrote in message 
news:39udne2Iv5rxJLPVRVnyhgA@bt.com...
> Just a quick question:
>
> Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the 
> League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any 
> special arrangements on the railways?
>
> As far as I'm aware, pretty much every London service from Leeds stops at 
> Doncaster, so there is quite the possibility of getting vast numbers of 
> rival fans on board - not that that automatically means problems, but I 
> would have thought it may be best avoided, perhaps especially on the 
> return journey?
>
My daughter, an avid Leeds fan in exile in Somerset, tells me the gossip is:

- timetabled trains are going to be dry and segregated between Leeds fans, 
Doncaster fans and neutrals, with BTP on board
- many Leeds fans are going by coach
- Leeds qualified first and have been booking advance tickets, but that it 
is cheaper to split the tickets at Donny.
- Leeds (avge attendance 26k) are likely to have around 10,000 tickets on 
general sale from Wednesday, and Donny (avge under 10k) perhaps 30,000 from 
Monday.  When Leeds were last in the play off there were 200k applications. 
Some Leeds fans are expected to try and buy tickets from Donny in the Donny 
end.....
- Leeds fans seeking accommodation the night before have found it booked by 
Bristol/Hull fans from Saturday's game

Watch out for Leeds, Hull and Donny fans all meeting at KX on Sunday 
morning!


Patrick (fan of neither!)

"Dave X"  wrote in message 
news:39udne2Iv5rxJLPVRVnyhgA@bt.com...
> Just a quick question:
>
> Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the 
> League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any 
> special arrangements on the railways?
>

Per NXEC website:

"Revisions due to Football League Play Off Finals at Wembley Stadium over 
the weekend of Saturday 24th, Sunday 25th and Monday 26th May :

Alterations are currently being finalised to provide additional services for 
increased demand over this weekend due to teams on the National Express East 
Coast route featuring in the Finals.

Full details and amended timetables are expected to be available here on 
Monday 19th May".

Patrick Hearn wrote:
> "Dave X"  wrote in message 
> news:39udne2Iv5rxJLPVRVnyhgA@bt.com...
>> Just a quick question:
>>
>> Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the 
>> League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any 
>> special arrangements on the railways?
>>
> 
> Per NXEC website:
> 
> "Revisions due to Football League Play Off Finals at Wembley Stadium over 
> the weekend of Saturday 24th, Sunday 25th and Monday 26th May :
> 
> Alterations are currently being finalised to provide additional services for 
> increased demand over this weekend due to teams on the National Express East 
> Coast route featuring in the Finals.
> 
> Full details and amended timetables are expected to be available here on 
> Monday 19th May".

You might want to avoid Manchester Piccadilly on the Monday, as the 
League Two playoff final is Stockport v Rochdale.

And, of course, no through trains as the WCML is closed south of 
Coventry.  That'll put some pressure on Paddington and St Pancras.

On Sat, 17 May 2008 12:08:36 +0100, "Dave X"  wrote:

>Just a quick question:
>
>Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the 
>League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any 
>special arrangements on the railways?
>

Well as it's a bank holiday vast chunks of it will be closed...  I'm
looking forward to the joy of a NatEx coach to get there as the
railway can't provide a service.

Dave X wrote:
> Just a quick question:
> 
> Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the 
> League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any 
> special arrangements on the railways?
> 
> As far as I'm aware, pretty much every London service from Leeds stops at 
> Doncaster, so there is quite the possibility of getting vast numbers of 
> rival fans on board - not that that automatically means problems, but I 
> would have thought it may be best avoided, perhaps especially on the return 
> journey?
> 
> Also, is anyone aware if any "football specials" are planned?

No idea about the League One finals but the day before is the 
Championship finals (Hull vs Bristol) at Wembley.

This is the first time Hull City have ever been to Wembley and the first 
chance they've ever had to play in the top division. The sense of 
excitement in the city is palpable. On the way to work I walk through 
the grounds of the KC Stadium (where Hull City play) and yesterday 
morning (tickets went on sale at 09:00 yesterday) at 07:50 there were 3 
queues circling the stadium twice (the local radio station estimated 
about 6000 people queuing). Never seen anything like it before.

National Express East Coast are running an extra relief service direct 
from Hull Paragon to Kings Cross stopping ONLY at Brough, leaving 08:47. 
There are two extra trains chartered by Thomas Cook Sport from Hull to 
Kings Cross (one with 10 coaches, one with 9) with times currently to be 
confirmed. The existing direct services are 06:50 NXEC, 08:02 and 10:06 
Hull Trains.

Does anyone have any idea what the charters are likely to be formed of?

As of 21:00 last night (Saturday) the situation WRT seat availability 
from Hull was:

05:20 Change DON	Available
06:07 Change DON	Sold Out
06:50 Direct		Sold Out
07:36 Change DON	Sold Out
08:02 Direct		Sold Out
08:08 Change DON	Sold Out
08:47 Direct RELIEF	Sold Out
08:56 Change DON	Sold Out
09:25 Change DON	Sold Out
09:56 Change DON	Available
10:12 Direct		Sold Out
10:25 Change DON	Available

CHARTER Train 1		Sold Out
CHARTER Train 2		5 of 9 coaches Full

Looking at Cross Country's booking website (NXEC's isn't working) it 
looks like the 09:56 is sold out this morning.

The Hull Trains services were sold out within hours of Hull beating 
Watford on Wednesday. They have a notice on their website to that effect 
, saying they can't provide anymore capacity (though I sincerely hope 
they're going to put a Class 180 out on the 08:02 vice 222) and pointing 
people in the direction of NXEC and the chartered trains.

The Northern Rail connecting services between Hull and Doncaster are 
normally provided by 2 car 158s. On summer Saturdays some of the fast 
services are strengthened to 3 car by the addition of a 153. I hope 
Northern are on the ball and are planning additional strengthening 
between Hull and Donny or there'll be people left behind.

The situation for return services in the evening is similar, but there's 
fewer of them.

Hull Paragon is now Hull Paragon Interchange - it's also the bus and 
coach station and National Express are running a fleet of coaches direct 
to Wembley, departing around 07:00 (there are also tonnes of other 
coaches trips planned, but I don't know where they'll depart from).

All in all it's going to be the busiest morning for as long as I can 
remember at the station and the railway seem to be doing their bit to 
provide extra capacity. I hope supporters are planning on getting the 
bus to the Interchange. There's certainly not enough parking and I 
reckon there'll be a shortage of taxis.

Philip.

On May 18, 8:07 am, Philip Hardy  wrote:
> Dave X wrote:
> > Just a quick question:
>
> > Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the
> > League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any
> > special arrangements on the railways?
>
> > As far as I'm aware, pretty much every London service from Leeds stops at
> > Doncaster, so there is quite the possibility of getting vast numbers of
> > rival fans on board - not that that automatically means problems, but I
> > would have thought it may be best avoided, perhaps especially on the return
> > journey?
>
> > Also, is anyone aware if any "football specials" are planned?
>
> No idea about the League One finals but the day before is the
> Championship finals (Hull vs Bristol) at Wembley.
>
> This is the first time Hull City have ever been to Wembley and the first
> chance they've ever had to play in the top division. The sense of
> excitement in the city is palpable. On the way to work I walk through
> the grounds of the KC Stadium (where Hull City play) and yesterday
> morning (tickets went on sale at 09:00 yesterday) at 07:50 there were 3
> queues circling the stadium twice (the local radio station estimated
> about 6000 people queuing). Never seen anything like it before.
>
> National Express East Coast are running an extra relief service direct
> from Hull Paragon to Kings Cross stopping ONLY at Brough, leaving 08:47.
> There are two extra trains chartered by Thomas Cook Sport from Hull to
> Kings Cross (one with 10 coaches, one with 9) with times currently to be
> confirmed. The existing direct services are 06:50 NXEC, 08:02 and 10:06
> Hull Trains.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what the charters are likely to be formed of?
>
> As of 21:00 last night (Saturday) the situation WRT seat availability
> from Hull was:
>
> 05:20 Change DON        Available
> 06:07 Change DON        Sold Out
> 06:50 Direct            Sold Out
> 07:36 Change DON        Sold Out
> 08:02 Direct            Sold Out
> 08:08 Change DON        Sold Out
> 08:47 Direct RELIEF     Sold Out
> 08:56 Change DON        Sold Out
> 09:25 Change DON        Sold Out
> 09:56 Change DON        Available
> 10:12 Direct            Sold Out
> 10:25 Change DON        Available
>
> CHARTER Train 1         Sold Out
> CHARTER Train 2         5 of 9 coaches Full
>
> Looking at Cross Country's booking website (NXEC's isn't working) it
> looks like the 09:56 is sold out this morning.
>
> The Hull Trains services were sold out within hours of Hull beating
> Watford on Wednesday. They have a notice on their website to that effect
> , saying they can't provide anymore capacity (though I sincerely hope
> they're going to put a Class 180 out on the 08:02 vice 222) and pointing
> people in the direction of NXEC and the chartered trains.
>
> The Northern Rail connecting services between Hull and Doncaster are
> normally provided by 2 car 158s. On summer Saturdays some of the fast
> services are strengthened to 3 car by the addition of a 153. I hope
> Northern are on the ball and are planning additional strengthening
> between Hull and Donny or there'll be people left behind.
>
> The situation for return services in the evening is similar, but there's
> fewer of them.
>
> Hull Paragon is now Hull Paragon Interchange - it's also the bus and
> coach station and National Express are running a fleet of coaches direct
> to Wembley, departing around 07:00 (there are also tonnes of other
> coaches trips planned, but I don't know where they'll depart from).
>
> All in all it's going to be the busiest morning for as long as I can
> remember at the station and the railway seem to be doing their bit to
> provide extra capacity. I hope supporters are planning on getting the
> bus to the Interchange. There's certainly not enough parking and I
> reckon there'll be a shortage of taxis.
>
> Philip.


" Leeds (avge attendance 26k) are likely to have around 10,000 tickets
on
general sale from Wednesday, and Donny (avge under 10k) perhaps 30,000
from
Monday.  When Leeds were last in the play off there were 200k
applications"


Why do Donny get three times more tickets than Leeds even though their
average attendance is under half that of Leeds?

John

Philip Hardy wrote:

> No idea about the League One finals but the day before is the 
> Championship finals (Hull vs Bristol) at Wembley.

Has Boris Johnson organised giant screens in Trafalgar Square,
and waived the by-laws on street drinking?

Charlie

Charlie Hulme wrote:
> Philip Hardy wrote:
> 
>> No idea about the League One finals but the day before is the 
>> Championship finals (Hull vs Bristol) at Wembley.
> 
> Has Boris Johnson organised giant screens in Trafalgar Square,
> and waived the by-laws on street drinking?
> 

No idea, but if he has one would hope he'd managed to get ones that work.

> " Leeds (avge attendance 26k) are likely to have around 10,000 tickets
> on
> general sale from Wednesday, and Donny (avge under 10k) perhaps 30,000
> from
> Monday.  When Leeds were last in the play off there were 200k
> applications"
>
> Why do Donny get three times more tickets than Leeds even though their
> average attendance is under half that of Leeds?
>
> John

The way I read it, they both get similar numbers of tickets, but Leeds
have far more season ticket holders.  So Leeds currently have tickets
on sale to season ticket holders at the moment but will put them on
general sale from Wednesday, but Doncaster don't have so many season
ticket holders so know they'll have enough to meet demand if they put
them all on sale at the same time.

Philip Hardy wrote:
> Charlie Hulme wrote:
>> Philip Hardy wrote:
>>
>>> No idea about the League One finals but the day before is the 
>>> Championship finals (Hull vs Bristol) at Wembley.
>>
>> Has Boris Johnson organised giant screens in Trafalgar Square,
>> and waived the by-laws on street drinking?

There often are big screens there when I pass. Though presumably the 
festivals of one-legged Welsh lesbians or whatever might be fewer in 
number under the new mayor :-)

> No idea, but if he has one would hope he'd managed to get ones that work.

Is there still a big screen in Queen Victoria Square?

-- 
Arthur Figgis               Surrey, UK

On May 17, 10:32 pm, Cheeky  wrote:
> On Sat, 17 May 2008 12:08:36 퍝, "Dave X"  wrote:
> >Just a quick question:
>
> >Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the
> >League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any
> >special arrangements on the railways?
>
> Well as it's a bank holiday vast chunks of it will be closed...  I'm
> looking forward to the joy of a NatEx coach to get there as the
> railway can't provide a service.

NRES shows through trains and no closures?

Patrick

On May 18, 3:05 pm, D1039  wrote:
>
> > >Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the
> > >League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any
> > >special arrangements on the railways?
>
> > Well as it's a bank holiday vast chunks of it will be closed...  I'm
> > looking forward to the joy of a NatEx coach to get there as the
> > railway can't provide a service.
>
> NRES shows through trains and no closures?

Yes, but if we were to let the facts get in the way of ignorant rail-
bashing, where would it all end?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote:
> On May 18, 3:05 pm, D1039  wrote:
>>>> Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the
>>>> League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any
>>>> special arrangements on the railways?
>>> Well as it's a bank holiday vast chunks of it will be closed...  I'm
>>> looking forward to the joy of a NatEx coach to get there as the
>>> railway can't provide a service.
>> NRES shows through trains and no closures?
> 
> Yes, but if we were to let the facts get in the way of ignorant rail-
> bashing, where would it all end?

Surely these days it is ignorance, irresponsible, lack of foresight, etc 
etc, to assume that trains /will/ run on a bank holiday? In the past 
I've heard a member of staff at Croydon telling passengers they were 
just being silly by expecting to be able to catch a train on a Sunday...

-- 
Arthur Figgis
with a class 66 and ballast wagons just out of sight

Arthur Figgis wrote:
>
> There often are big screens there when I pass. Though presumably the
> festivals of one-legged Welsh lesbians or whatever might be fewer in
> number under the new mayor :-)

Thought there'll probably be more cyclists rallies and Routemaster 
Appreciation Society gatherings.    ;-)

On Sun, 18 May 2008 02:25:00 -0700 (PDT), Ianigsy
 wrote:

>The way I read it, they both get similar numbers of tickets, but Leeds
>have far more season ticket holders.  So Leeds currently have tickets
>on sale to season ticket holders at the moment but will put them on
>general sale from Wednesday, but Doncaster don't have so many season
>ticket holders so know they'll have enough to meet demand if they put
>them all on sale at the same time.

Spot on. Season ticket holders could pre-reserve one ticket via post
then on Wednesday they can buy a further three in person. On Thursday
they go on general sale.

On Sun, 18 May 2008 07:05:14 -0700 (PDT), D1039
 wrote:

>On May 17, 10:32 pm, Cheeky  wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 May 2008 12:08:36 +0100, "Dave X"  wrote:
>> >Just a quick question:
>>
>> >Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the
>> >League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any
>> >special arrangements on the railways?
>>
>> Well as it's a bank holiday vast chunks of it will be closed...  I'm
>> looking forward to the joy of a NatEx coach to get there as the
>> railway can't provide a service.
>
>NRES shows through trains and no closures?
>
>Patrick

Not from Manchester...

On Sun, 18 May 2008 08:38:34 -0700 (PDT), John B 
wrote:

>On May 18, 3:05 pm, D1039  wrote:
>>
>> > >Given that Leeds United and Doncaster are set to play each other in the
>> > >League One Playoff final at Wembley next Sunday, is anyone aware of any
>> > >special arrangements on the railways?
>>
>> > Well as it's a bank holiday vast chunks of it will be closed...  I'm
>> > looking forward to the joy of a NatEx coach to get there as the
>> > railway can't provide a service.
>>
>> NRES shows through trains and no closures?
>
>Yes, but if we were to let the facts get in the way of ignorant rail-
>bashing, where would it all end?

Or if you assume criticism = "rail bashing"...

On May 19, 9:48 pm, Cheeky  wrote:
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 02:25:00 -0700 (PDT), Ianigsy
>
>  wrote:
> >The way I read it, they both get similar numbers of tickets, but Leeds
> >have far more season ticket holders.  So Leeds currently have tickets
> >on sale to season ticket holders at the moment but will put them on
> >general sale from Wednesday, but Doncaster don't have so many season
> >ticket holders so know they'll have enough to meet demand if they put
> >them all on sale at the same time.
>
> Spot on. Season ticket holders could pre-reserve one ticket via post
> then on Wednesday they can buy a further three in person. On Thursday
> they go on general sale.

Going O/T: Leeds sold out before they went on general sale, following
which Doncaster have today (22/5) closed their ticket office with
10,000 (?) unsold because of Leeds fans and touts seeking to buy
unsold tickets

On thread: two BTP officers per coasch on NXEC on Sunday

Patrick

D1039 wrote:
> On May 19, 9:48 pm, Cheeky  wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 May 2008 02:25:00 -0700 (PDT), Ianigsy
>>
>>  wrote:
>>> The way I read it, they both get similar numbers of tickets, but Leeds
>>> have far more season ticket holders.  So Leeds currently have tickets
>>> on sale to season ticket holders at the moment but will put them on
>>> general sale from Wednesday, but Doncaster don't have so many season
>>> ticket holders so know they'll have enough to meet demand if they put
>>> them all on sale at the same time.
>> Spot on. Season ticket holders could pre-reserve one ticket via post
>> then on Wednesday they can buy a further three in person. On Thursday
>> they go on general sale.
> 
> Going O/T: Leeds sold out before they went on general sale, following
> which Doncaster have today (22/5) closed their ticket office with
> 10,000 (?) unsold because of Leeds fans and touts seeking to buy
> unsold tickets
> 
> On thread: two BTP officers per coasch on NXEC on Sunday

I love the blanket ban on alcohol imposed:

No Alcohol on board the following services

Saturday 24 May
National Express East Coast and Hull Trains services from Hull to London
King’s Cross due to arrive London King’s Cross before 1400
National Express East Coast and Hull Trains services departing London
King’s Cross to all destinations from 1800 onwards

Sunday 25 May
National Express East Coast and Hull Trains services due to arrive
London King’s Cross before 1400
National Express East Coast and Hull Trains services departing London
King’s Cross to all destinations from 1800 onwards

Please do not try to bring alcohol on board.
Taking or attempting to take on board will be an offence. British 
Transport  Police will be at stations and travel on services to enforce 
this.

NXEC Trains Ltd  hereby gives notice that it has prohibited the 
possession of intoxicating liquor from the following train services: on 
Saturday 24 May 2008 Hull to London Kings Cross due to arrive London 
Kings Cross before 1400, and all services departing London Kings Cross 
from 1800 to 2359hrs. On Sunday 25 May all services due to arrive London 
Kings Cross before 1400 and all services departing London Kings Cross 
from 1800 to 2359hrs.

It is an offence under Byelaw 4 (2) of the NXEC Trains Ltd Byelaws and 
The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol) Act 1985 for any person 
travelling on the services listed above to be in possession of 
intoxicating liquor or to attempt to enter any of the above trains with 
intoxicating liquor.



So no alcohol for you if you're travelling between Berwick and Edinburgh 
on Sunday.  And alcohol will be fine if you're on a Northern service 
into Doncaster to connect with NXEC/HT - just get it all drunk before 
you get into Donny!

In message , at 21:56:47 on Thu, 22
May 2008, Mark Morton  remarked:
>It is an offence under Byelaw 4 (2) of the NXEC Trains Ltd Byelaws

I can't seem to find them online, so much for transparency.

If they are the same as the Railway Byelaws then they say:

        2) Where reasonable notice is, or has been, given prohibiting
        intoxicating liquor on any train service, no person shall have
        any intoxicating liquor with him on it, or attempt to enter such
        a train with intoxicating liquor with him.

Which seems clear enough.

>and The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol) Act 1985 for any person
>travelling on the services listed above to be in possession of
>intoxicating liquor or to attempt to enter any of the above trains with
>intoxicating liquor.

But some interesting mission creep there. AFAICT the Act:

        "prohibits the possession of alcohol on the way to matches on
        football special coaches and trains and makes it an offence to
        be drunk on them"

or in the words of the Act itself:

        (a) is a public service vehicle or railway passenger vehicle,
        and

        (b) is being used for the principal purpose of carrying
        passengers for the whole or part of a journey to or from a
        designated sporting event.

So it doesn't seem to apply to more than a handful of trains.
-- 
Roland Perry