Suppose Iran should explode a nuclear bomb. How should the rest of the
world react?

Suppose N Korea or Iran were to actually attack another state using
nuclear weapons. How should the rest of the world react? Would it be
possible to avoid a general nuclear war?

Lance

On Sep 28, 11:14 pm, Lance  wrote:
> Suppose Iran should explode a nuclear bomb. How should the rest of the
> world react?
>
In the past, the usual reaction is, 'tut-tut', that was naughty. Then,
'OK, you're part of the nuclear club now'.
>
> Suppose N Korea or Iran were to actually attack another state using
> nuclear weapons. How should the rest of the world react? Would it be
> possible to avoid a general nuclear war?
>
Isn't this the same question answered in Richard Holbrooke's 'The Fog
of War'? In that he considers the Cuban missile crisis in detail. I
must say that I was shocked. He makes it clear that a number of
rational mainly men, working from rational largely assumptions and
fairly good evidence can reach irrational conclusions.

The best way to avoid general nuclear war would be to live in the
Southern Hemisphere.

It's been a bit late for a long time, but the underlying problem is
that not enough ethics is taught to mathematicians, physicists and
engineers.

Since that's too late, I suppose that the only other alternative would
be to try to invent a way to destroy the irrational religions of
nationalism and patriotism. It's been fairly easy , in much of the
world, to destroy religions based on intangible gods, but graven
images can be more convincing. If you talk to quite intelligent and
generally rational people from particularly bellicose countries,
you'll find that they are almost all, often unknowingly, members of
nationalist cults who genuinely believe in their country as a god in
the sense of it being able to do no wrong, being superior, to all
other similar gods and being worthy of unquestioning human sacrifice.

Since a good deal of economic activity is devoted to building
armouries to serve these gods, it's going to be something of an up-
hill struggle to destroy them and their cults.

It's interesting, in Holbrooke's film, to see how, after having seen
the evil he has done, he is able to see beyond the cult thinking that
informed his youthful self. He spoke to the Vietnamese generals who
won the war against the US, years afterwards, and only then was he
able to understand that their devotion to their cult was even stronger
than his and had nothing to do with communism - helping him understand
that the entire war was a complete waste of time, money and human life
based, as it was, on this simple misunderstanding.

If most people have to go through that amount of learning before they
can see through their cults, then, I fear, we're probably fucked.

On Sep 29, 12:22 am, Peter Brooks  wrote:
> On Sep 28, 11:14 pm, Lance  wrote:> Suppose Iran should explode a nuclear bomb. How should the rest of the
> > world react?
>
> In the past, the usual reaction is, 'tut-tut', that was naughty. Then,
> 'OK, you're part of the nuclear club now'.
>
> > Suppose N Korea or Iran were to actually attack another state using
> > nuclear weapons. How should the rest of the world react? Would it be
> > possible to avoid a general nuclear war?
>
> Isn't this the same question answered in Richard Holbrooke's 'The Fog
> of War'? In that he considers the Cuban missile crisis in detail. I
> must say that I was shocked. He makes it clear that a number of
> rational mainly men, working from rational largely assumptions and
> fairly good evidence can reach irrational conclusions.
>
> The best way to avoid general nuclear war would be to live in the
> Southern Hemisphere.
>
> It's been a bit late for a long time, but the underlying problem is
> that not enough ethics is taught to mathematicians, physicists and
> engineers.
>
> Since that's too late, I suppose that the only other alternative would
> be to try to invent a way to destroy the irrational religions of
> nationalism and patriotism. It's been fairly easy , in much of the
> world, to destroy religions based on intangible gods, but graven
> images can be more convincing. If you talk to quite intelligent and
> generally rational people from particularly bellicose countries,
> you'll find that they are almost all, often unknowingly, members of
> nationalist cults who genuinely believe in their country as a god in
> the sense of it being able to do no wrong, being superior, to all
> other similar gods and being worthy of unquestioning human sacrifice.
>
> Since a good deal of economic activity is devoted to building
> armouries to serve these gods, it's going to be something of an up-
> hill struggle to destroy them and their cults.
>
> It's interesting, in Holbrooke's film, to see how, after having seen
> the evil he has done, he is able to see beyond the cult thinking that
> informed his youthful self. He spoke to the Vietnamese generals who
> won the war against the US, years afterwards, and only then was he
> able to understand that their devotion to their cult was even stronger
> than his and had nothing to do with communism - helping him understand
> that the entire war was a complete waste of time, money and human life
> based, as it was, on this simple misunderstanding.
>
> If most people have to go through that amount of learning before they
> can see through their cults, then, I fear, we're probably fucked.

Oh dear, I think you may be right. We are fucked. And there won't be
much enjoyment in the process either.

Lance

On Sep 30, 2:54 pm, Gary  wrote:
>
>
> > If most people have to go through that amount of learning before they
> > can see through their cults, then, I fear, we're probably fucked.
>
> Oh dear, I think you may be right. We are fucked. And there won't be
> much enjoyment in the process either.
>
Probably, not certainly. Despite the danger, we weren't all destroyed
by the Cuban missile crisis, and that was a lot closer than most
people knew.

Maybe a 'rouge scientist' might develop an antidote to psychopathy
that can be spread virally.

On Oct 1, 6:27 am, Peter Brooks  wrote:
> On Sep 30, 2:54 pm, Gary  wrote:
>
> > > If most people have to go through that amount of learning before they
> > > can see through their cults, then, I fear, we're probably fucked.
>
> > Oh dear, I think you may be right. We are fucked. And there won't be
> > much enjoyment in the process either.
>
> Probably, not certainly. Despite the danger, we weren't all destroyed
> by the Cuban missile crisis, and that was a lot closer than most
> people knew.
>
> Maybe a 'rouge scientist' might develop an antidote to psychopathy
> that can be spread virally.

Chuckle - I just have to agree with you and you change your mind.

Lance

On Oct 1, 8:28 pm, Gary  wrote:
> On Oct 1, 6:27 am, Peter Brooks  wrote:
>
> > On Sep 30, 2:54 pm, Gary  wrote:
>
> > > > If most people have to go through that amount of learning before they
> > > > can see through their cults, then, I fear, we're probably fucked.
>
> > > Oh dear, I think you may be right. We are fucked. And there won't be
> > > much enjoyment in the process either.
>
> > Probably, not certainly. Despite the danger, we weren't all destroyed
> > by the Cuban missile crisis, and that was a lot closer than most
> > people knew.
>
> > Maybe a 'rouge scientist' might develop an antidote to psychopathy
> > that can be spread virally.
>
> Chuckle - I just have to agree with you and you change your mind.
>
Mmm. I change my mind quite frequently, as it happens, so I hope that
goes some way to satisfying you...