We've discussed the effects of oxytocin before in this forum, so the
following article from the BBC News site may be of interest.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7412438.stm


Trust drug may cure social phobia

The discovery could lead to treatments for social phobia
A nasal spray which increases our trust for strangers is showing
promise as a treatment for social phobia, say scientists from Zurich
University.

They found that people who inhaled the "love hormone" oxytocin
continued to trust strangers with their money - even after they were
betrayed.

Brain scans showed the hormone lowered activity in the amygdala - a
region which is overactive in social phobics.

Drug trials are under way and early signs are promising say the
scientists.

Nicknamed the "cuddle chemical", oxytocin is a naturally produced
hormone, which has been shown to play a role in social relations,
maternal bonding, and also in sex.

Lead researcher Dr Thomas Baumgartner said: "We now know for the first
time what exactly is going on in the brain when oxytocin increases
trust.

"We found that oxytocin has a very specific effect in social
situations. It seems to diminish our fears.

"Based on our results, we can now conclude that a lack of oxytocin is
at least one of the causes for the fear experienced by social
phobics.

"We hope and indeed we expect that we can improve their sociability by
administering oxytocin."

Powerful effect

Previous studies have shown that participants in "trust games" took
greater risks with their money after inhaling the hormone via a nasal
spray.

In this latest experiment, published in the journal Neuron, the
researchers asked volunteer subjects to take part in a similar game.

They were each asked to contribute money to a human trustee, with the
understanding that the trustee would invest the money and decide
whether to return the profits, or betray the subject's trust by
keeping the profit.

The subjects also received doses of oxytocin or a placebo via a nasal
spray.

After investing, the participants were given feedback on the trustees.
When their trust was abused, the placebo group became less willing to
invest. But the players who had been given oxytocin continued to trust
their money with a broker.

"We can see that oxytocin has a very powerful effect," said Dr
Baumgartner.

"The subjects who received oxytocin demonstrated no change in their
trust behaviour, even though they were informed that their trust was
not honoured in roughly 50% of cases."

In a second game, where the human trustees were replaced by a computer
which gave random returns, the hormone made no difference to the
players' investment behaviour.

"It appears that oxytocin affects social responses specifically
related to trust," Dr Baumgartner said.

Defence barriers

During the games, the players' brains were scanned using functional
magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI).

The researchers found that oxytocin reduced activity in two regions
which act as natural "defence barriers".

They are the amygdala, which processes fear and danger, and an area of
the striatum, which helps to guide future behaviour, based on reward
feedback.

The amygdala has been found to be extremely active in the brains of
sufferers of social phobia.

Dr Baumgartner's colleague, Professor Markus Heinrichs, has begun a
study where social phobia sufferers are given either oxytocin or a
placebo, in combination with cognitive and behavioural therapy.

The trials are ongoing, but Dr Baumgartner said that early signs
appear "promising".

The hormone could also be a candidate for treating patients with
autism, he says.

"Autistic people also have a fear of social situations and have
problems interacting, so it is very likely that oxytocin could help,"
he said.

"This hormone seems to play a very specific role in social situations
so might be able to improve autism. But so far I am not aware of any
studies."

Mauricio Delgado, a psychologist at Rutgers University, said: "This
study has significant implications for understanding mental disorders
where deficits in social behaviour are observed.

"While a degree of wariness may protect one from harm, being able to
''forgive and forget'' is an imperative step in maintaining long-term
relationships.

"The reported oxytocin finding could provide a bridge for potential
clinical applications."

On 2008-05-23, Dave Smith  wrote:
> We've discussed the effects of oxytocin before in this forum, so the
> following article from the BBC News site may be of interest.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7412438.stm
>
> Trust drug may cure social phobia

By sounds of things it can do a lot more too. It sounds quite easy to
abuse.

 - Richard

-- 
   _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard dot Corfield at gmail dot com
  _/  _/    _/    _/          
 _/_/      _/    _/                Time is a one way street,               
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                     except in the Twilight Zone

On May 24, 6:27 pm, Richard Corfield
<Richard.Corfi...@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> wrote:
> On 2008-05-23, Dave Smith  wrote:
>
> > We've discussed the effects of oxytocin before in this forum, so the
> > following article from the BBC News site may be of interest.
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7412438.stm
>
> > Trust drug may cure social phobia
>
> By sounds of things it can do a lot more too. It sounds quite easy to
> abuse.
>
If you were a con man and relied upon it then you'd probably be in the
wrong job.

On 2008-05-24, Peter Brooks  wrote:
>>
>> By sounds of things it can do a lot more too. It sounds quite easy to
>> abuse.
>>
> If you were a con man and relied upon it then you'd probably be in the
> wrong job.

Interrogation?

Date rape?

 - Richard

-- 
   _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard dot Corfield at gmail dot com
  _/  _/    _/    _/          
 _/_/      _/    _/                Time is a one way street,               
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                     except in the Twilight Zone

On May 24, 10:15 pm, Richard Corfield
<Richard.Corfi...@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> wrote:
> On 2008-05-24, Peter Brooks  wrote:
>
>
>
> >> By sounds of things it can do a lot more too. It sounds quite easy to
> >> abuse.
>
> > If you were a con man and relied upon it then you'd probably be in the
> > wrong job.
>
> Interrogation?
>
> Date rape?
>
Those are interesting possibilities. If it is a naturally occurring
substance and you feel more trusting after it, then are you saying
that you can't consent to sex without it being classed as a sort of
rape?

Or are you suggesting that everybody who has given a member of the
opposite sex a drink and then slept with them has been guilty of 'date
rape'?

On 2008-05-25, Peter Brooks  wrote:
>>
>> Interrogation?
>>
>> Date rape?
>>
> Those are interesting possibilities. If it is a naturally occurring
> substance and you feel more trusting after it, then are you saying
> that you can't consent to sex without it being classed as a sort of
> rape?
>
> Or are you suggesting that everybody who has given a member of the
> opposite sex a drink and then slept with them has been guilty of 'date
> rape'?

I'm saying that there exist people who use drugs in drinks before rape.
At the moment these drugs tend to cause the other person to lose
consciousness - a funny kind of rape by a desperate or sick person. I'd
expect that such people would see things like this and wonder what use
this new drug has to them.

One interrogation technique is to try to gain the trust of the
person being interrogated such that the person would divulge their
secrets. Wouldn't such a drug be of interest to those who interrogate?
Would it be better than water-boarding? It sounds like the results would
be quicker.

The article mentioned that those tested with it trusted someone with
their money who they knew had conned them before. Some such
relationships exist in real life, but if this drug sways it then the use
of it for other means sounds quite powerful. 

Would it be ethically better to spike the food of the terror suspects with
this stuff then torture them? If this stuff has no side effects and the
effect is temporary? Probably, but I'm not sure it's a clear cut answer.
Safeguards exist such that if one day "terror suspect" becomes "someone
who won't vote the way we want them to" the government doesn't have that
kind of power.

 - Richard

-- 
   _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard dot Corfield at gmail dot com
  _/  _/    _/    _/          
 _/_/      _/    _/                Time is a one way street,               
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                     except in the Twilight Zone

On May 25, 9:09 am, Richard Corfield
<Richard.Corfi...@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> wrote:
> On 2008-05-25, Peter Brooks  wrote:
>
>
>
> >> Interrogation?
>
> >> Date rape?
>
> > Those are interesting possibilities. If it is a naturally occurring
> > substance and you feel more trusting after it, then are you saying
> > that you can't consent to sex without it being classed as a sort of
> > rape?
>
> > Or are you suggesting that everybody who has given a member of the
> > opposite sex a drink and then slept with them has been guilty of 'date
> > rape'?
>
> I'm saying that there exist people who use drugs in drinks before rape.
> At the moment these drugs tend to cause the other person to lose
> consciousness - a funny kind of rape by a desperate or sick person. I'd
> expect that such people would see things like this and wonder what use
> this new drug has to them.
>
> One interrogation technique is to try to gain the trust of the
> person being interrogated such that the person would divulge their
> secrets. Wouldn't such a drug be of interest to those who interrogate?
> Would it be better than water-boarding? It sounds like the results would
> be quicker.
>
> The article mentioned that those tested with it trusted someone with
> their money who they knew had conned them before. Some such
> relationships exist in real life, but if this drug sways it then the use
> of it for other means sounds quite powerful.
>
> Would it be ethically better to spike the food of the terror suspects with> this stuff then torture them? If this stuff has no side effects and the
> effect is temporary? Probably, but I'm not sure it's a clear cut answer.
> Safeguards exist such that if one day "terror suspect" becomes "someone
> who won't vote the way we want them to" the government doesn't have that
> kind of power.
>
I certainly think that this would be better than torture! Unlike
torture it might actually work as well.

On 2008-05-25, Peter Brooks  wrote:
>>
>> Would it be ethically better to spike the food of the terror suspects with
>> this stuff then torture them? If this stuff has no side effects and the
>> effect is temporary? Probably, but I'm not sure it's a clear cut answer.
>> Safeguards exist such that if one day "terror suspect" becomes "someone
>> who won't vote the way we want them to" the government doesn't have that
>> kind of power.
>>
> I certainly think that this would be better than torture! Unlike
> torture it might actually work as well.

It becomes the magical truth serum. Is it ethical though? Under the
influence of this stuff would you do something that was against your
nature? (The argument given for hypnosis is that you won't do something
you see as wrong under its effect). 

Yes it is better than torture. If the information leads to defusing
the bomb then perhaps great. If the person you trust says "Sign this,
plead guilty, all will be fine"?

Then again, the information can't be unlearned. Now it is known if it's
going to be used or abused it will be.

 - Richard

-- 
   _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard dot Corfield at gmail dot com
  _/  _/    _/    _/          
 _/_/      _/    _/                Time is a one way street,               
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                     except in the Twilight Zone

"Richard Corfield" <Richard.Corfield@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> wrote in 
message 
news:slrng3ig8j.eh0.Richard.Corfield@gateway.internal.littondale.dyndns.org...
> On 2008-05-25, Peter Brooks  wrote:
>>>
>>> Would it be ethically better to spike the food of the terror suspects 
>>> with
>>> this stuff then torture them? If this stuff has no side effects and the
>>> effect is temporary? Probably, but I'm not sure it's a clear cut answer.
>>> Safeguards exist such that if one day "terror suspect" becomes "someone
>>> who won't vote the way we want them to" the government doesn't have that
>>> kind of power.
>>>
>> I certainly think that this would be better than torture! Unlike
>> torture it might actually work as well.
>
> It becomes the magical truth serum. Is it ethical though? Under the
> influence of this stuff would you do something that was against your
> nature?

If you regard being a social phobic or autistic as part of person's nature 
then the answer appears to be hopefully yes, but I don't think that 
determines whether or not its use would ethical.  What the scenarios you 
point to as being ethically questionable appear to have in common is that 
they involve administering the drug to somebody without their informed 
consent.  Surely that is the case with any drug?

On 2008-05-26, Philip  wrote:
> If you regard being a social phobic or autistic as part of person's nature 
> then the answer appears to be hopefully yes, but I don't think that 
> determines whether or not its use would ethical.  What the scenarios you 
> point to as being ethically questionable appear to have in common is that 
> they involve administering the drug to somebody without their informed 
> consent.  Surely that is the case with any drug?

Yes, and I suspect there are many drugs for which these concerns would
hold.

 - Richard

-- 
   _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard dot Corfield at gmail dot com
  _/  _/    _/    _/          
 _/_/      _/    _/                Time is a one way street,               
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                     except in the Twilight Zone

This article is interesting as it describes the action of oxytocin.

http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/FreemanWWW/manuscripts/V3/97.html

Seems it's not really a "trust drug" but part of the mechanism through
which we build trust.

 - Richard

-- 
   _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard dot Corfield at gmail dot com
  _/  _/    _/    _/          
 _/_/      _/    _/                Time is a one way street,               
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                     except in the Twilight Zone