1. Everyone is religious.
Did you ever notice that people often give their opinions about
religion but then caveat it by saying, “But I’m not a theologian”?
Well, the truth is everyone’s a theologian.  Some are more informed
theologians than others, but everyone has some set of religious
beliefs.  If we define religion as someone’s explanation of ultimate
reality—the origin, operation, meaning, and destiny of all things—
then
everyone is religious, including atheists.  While some people
devoutly
believe that God is the cause of all this, others are just as devout
in support of an atheistic explanation or that of some other
religious
worldview.  Even those who are devoutly agnostic or indifferent have
taken a religious position.  It’s not that they’ve never thought
about
an explanation for ultimate reality, it’s that they believe the
question is unknowable, undecided, or irrelevant.  That’s still a
religious position.


2. Everyone is a fundamentalist.
While Christians are often mocked for being fundamentalists, everyone
has fundamental beliefs about why things are the way they are and how
we should live in light of that.  Atheists, for example, believe that
there is no God; that life arose from non-life without any
intelligent
intervention; that there is no afterlife; and that science is the
supreme if not exclusive source of all truth. Those fundamental
beliefs usually result in moral fundamentals such as tolerance for
everything (except for those who don’t tolerate everything).  So the
question is not who is or isn’t a fundamentalist—everyone is.  The
question is “whose fundamentals are true?”


3. Everyone has faith.
If we define faith as believing something that lacks complete
evidence, then everyone has faith.  Since no human is all-knowing,
all
of us—even atheists—require some degree of faith to believe our
religious fundamentals.  Those that have more evidence for their
fundamentals, require less faith-- those with less evidence need more
faith.

On 2008-04-29, IlBeBauck@gmail.com  wrote:
> 2. Everyone is a fundamentalist.

Then either that distinction becomes useless - after all "Everyone is
human", or we need to define it another more useful way.

The typical understanding of a 'fundie' is someone who cannot tolerate
people with other ideas - who believes that others should be converted.

Some people try to be open to other ideas.
Some people try to get on with people with other ideas.
Some people accept that those other ideas work for those other people.
But this doesn't stop them saying when they think an effect of the other
  ideas is wrong - for example if a religious group tried to have its
  doctrine taught in schools despite evidence to the contrary.

An argument we're hearing nowadays "You're a fundamentalist too, so it's
all symmetrical, so we have as much right to insist that all children
receive the truth of the spaghetti filled cosmic teapot as you have to
teach evolution" doesn't stand. Some other way than "It's the common
belief of most of us round here" has to be looked at.

> 3. Everyone has faith.
> If we define faith as believing something that lacks complete
> evidence, then everyone has faith.  Since no human is all-knowing,
> all
> of us?even atheists?require some degree of faith to believe our
> religious fundamentals.  Those that have more evidence for their
> fundamentals, require less faith-- those with less evidence need more
> faith.

So what are you trying to argue?

Do some people take a "Work in progress" approach to things?

Faith in the path?

I've heard a church minister explain that "Faith in Christ is the same
kind of thing as faith that the pew will support your weight". We have
experience to show that the pew will support our weight. It has done for
a while and that we are not all on the floor backs this up.

Maybe a Christian feels that they have similar experience to back up
their faith in Christ, but then the difference comes down to what can
be deduced from the experience. That we have not fallen through the
pews means we can deduce that the pews take our weight. We don't deduce
anything else.  Christianity adds explanations for the experiences that
the Christian has that could also be happily explained in terms of the
beliefs of other religions or psychological effects.

 - Richard

-- 
   _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard dot Corfield at gmail dot com
  _/  _/    _/    _/          
 _/_/      _/    _/                Time is a one way street,               
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                     except in the Twilight Zone

"Richard Corfield" <Richard.Corfield@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> a écrit dans 
le message de news: 
slrng1di52.394.Richard.Corfield@gateway.internal.littondale.dyndns.org...
> On 2008-04-29, IlBeBauck@gmail.com  wrote:
>> 2. Everyone is a fundamentalist.

<snip same old same old from DILV (DaveInLakeVilla)

Hi Richard, the poster is a fundamentalist who regularly trolls atheist 
discussion groups with his creationist views, but who never responds to the 
arguments contained within replies other than with more cut 'n paste 
nonsense from creationist websites. A "do not feed the troll" warning is 
used on other ngs - elsewhere we've given up trying to address his views 
with reasoned argument, it's a waste of time, he's not interested in 
actually thinking about the topics involved.

pga

On 2008-04-29, PG  wrote:
>
> Hi Richard, the poster is a fundamentalist who regularly trolls atheist 
> discussion groups with his creationist views, but who never responds to the 
> arguments contained within replies other than with more cut 'n paste 
> nonsense from creationist websites. A "do not feed the troll" warning is 
> used on other ngs - elsewhere we've given up trying to address his views 
> with reasoned argument, it's a waste of time, he's not interested in 
> actually thinking about the topics involved.

OK thanks. 

 - Richard

-- 
   _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/     Richard dot Corfield at gmail dot com
  _/  _/    _/    _/          
 _/_/      _/    _/                Time is a one way street,               
_/  _/  _/_/    _/_/_/                     except in the Twilight Zone