On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:45:26 +0100, Pete Barrett
 wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:38:28 +0100, Ian Smith wrote:
>
>> I agree completely, but there is a massive hole that we can fall 
>> into if we go around saying that where people who don't understand 
>> these things can overhear.
>> 
>> Creationists are very fond of saying "Evolution is only a theory" in 
>> an attempt to portray it as 'something that Darwin and his mates 
>> thought up after a heavy night on the ale'.
>> 
>But I at least would not feel happy about hiding the truth because it
>would be misused by those who either misunderstand or, worse, deliberately
>misrepresent it.
>
>> We need to be clear that the evidence establishes evolution beyond 
>> any doubt (it has very closely approximated to the truth and is now 
>> indistinguishable from it) - however you wish to describe that (cue 
>> discussions on terms like 'proof', 'fact' etc).
>> 
>> http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
>> 
>> So, if you use your argument with a creationist, you'll lose, and 
>> you'll find your words being quoted as part of their argument.
>
>If a creationist advances the six-day creation as a scientific theory,
>then it stands or falls by the same standards of proof as evolution - and
>the preponderance of evidence is most definitely on the side of evolution.

Creation doesn't even get that far. It's no different than eg the
ancient Greek myths and legends, like the land emerging from the sea
on the back of a giant turtle.

The problem is not so much that creationists think it is scientific,
but that some people believe fairy stories. 

They're not just idiots for that but even more so when they insist to
everybody else that the fairy stories are true. Especially when they
slander and libel people who don't believe the fairy stories.

>On the other hand, if a theist advances the six-day creation as a myth,
>then science is not involved - an atheist might disagree, but it has to be
>for quite different reasons.

I think you'll find the atheist wouldn't care.

Religionists don't seem to understand just how irrelevant their
beliefs are outside their religion. And the atheist sees it no
differently than the Greek, Norse or any other myths.