Re: Most of the people that died at Dachau were Non-Jews   (JJ)
 (Jack Johnson) 
I am speechless!     I have heard there are holocaust deniers, but
I've never met one before......until now.
------------------------------------------------------
Answer: I am not a holocaust denier, WWII was a holocaust, 3 million
Jews died, and 45 million Christians also died, 

But the world has a problem, They are told by Zionists to remember the
Jews, but forget about the CHRISTIANS THAT DIED..  

Ten times more Catholics died fighting against Zionism's desire for
world conquest, but programmed Catholics are told they were really not
Catholics but rather they were Fascists and Nazis. out to exterminate
Jews..

Now that is real programming!

FOAD

On Aug 22, 5:56 am, leonard-abb...@webtv.net (Leonard Abbott) wrote:
>  Re: Most of the people that died at Dachau were Non-Jews   (JJ)
>  (Jack Johnson)
> I am speechless!     I have heard there are holocaust deniers, but
> I've never met one before......until now.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Answer: I am not a holocaust denier, WWII was a holocaust, 3 million
> Jews died, and 45 million Christians also died,
> Th
> But the world has a problem, They are told by Zionists to remember the
> Jews, but forget about the CHRISTIANS THAT DIED..  
>
> Ten times more Catholics died fighting against Zionism's desire for
> world conquest, but programmed Catholics are told they were really not
> Catholics but rather they were Fascists and Nazis. out to exterminate
> Jews..
>
> Now that is real programming!

REPLY:  There were many many Christians in addition to Jews that died
at the Hands of Hitler and his Regime ;  45,000,000 Christians is
unsupported however and extremely doubtful.  And best accounts show
that close to 6 million Jews died in the Camps overall.   The fallout
of survival of the fitest philosophys (Macro Evolution/Atheism) is not
only displayed in the Halocaust but also with other atheist upholding
Tyrrants amounting to many millions overall because they were looked
upon as being 'a deficient minority' in the progress of 'Evolution' .
The truth of the matter, is,  we are ALL ONE RACE  and each has equal
dignity and worth from being fashioned in the image of the personal
Creator.  We are ONE RACE and ONE BLOOD ; unless you can show another
human being having blood color different from red.

On Aug 25, 9:33 am, "IlBeBa...@gmail.com"  wrote:
snipped fundy Bullcrap

This is mainly directed at the occassional visitor who may feel
a need to reply to the unwelcome
and unwanted proselytizing of a resident AmeriKKKan fundy troll DILV,
Ilbeback or any number of other aliases..ken

At the risk of boring you and others here to death, dilv is
incapable of intellectual reasoning, he is an evangelical cyber foot
soldier that
has been pyschologically pre-programmed to maintain the devout
message
and has nothing remotely interesting or intellectually challenging to
add to
well trodden religious dogmatic paths.
If you really wish an atheist vs relgious discussion come on over to
UKRC where the discussion, whilst no less frustrating,  is light
years
ahead of the dilv dribble.
(Mark)


It's useless to enter into any type of discussion with this fuckwit.
I've seen it all before
Dave loves to argue, usually by first posing a question or making a
ridiculous statement (A) like Adam and Eve is not a myth, man
actually lived with dinosaurs, the Earth is 6000 years old, or there
is no
proof an asteroid was responsible for extinctions, all designed only
to draw you into his web, but if one directs a reply to the first
issue of (A), the subject will change (as in "Yes, but what about
B,C,D and E") and never addressing your reply to subject (A)

Any attempt to cover B,C,D, or E is doomed to failure, as he then
directs the discussion into another direction.
He'd used this exact same tactic with me and many others.
The best strategy, just not play his game
(Hewy)

Dave is our resident (and unwelcome) evangelical fundamentalist.
He is based in the US and here to preach the gospel. He will not
listen to anything you
say and will continue to post the same invalid arguments no matter
how many times their falsehood is pointed out.

His typical posting consists of material copied from creationist
websites - typically pseudo science and frequently quotations from
credible scientists that have been edited to indicate the opposite
of what the author intended.

(Ian)

In article 
,
 "IlBeBauck@gmail.com"  wrote:

> On Aug 22, 5:56 am, leonard-abb...@webtv.net (Leonard Abbott) wrote:
> >  Re: Most of the people that died at Dachau were Non-Jews   (JJ)
> >  (Jack Johnson)
> > I am speechless!     I have heard there are holocaust deniers, but
> > I've never met one before......until now.
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Answer: I am not a holocaust denier, WWII was a holocaust, 3 million
> > Jews died, and 45 million Christians also died,
> > Th
> > But the world has a problem, They are told by Zionists to remember the
> > Jews, but forget about the CHRISTIANS THAT DIED..  
> >
> > Ten times more Catholics died fighting against Zionism's desire for
> > world conquest, but programmed Catholics are told they were really not
> > Catholics but rather they were Fascists and Nazis. out to exterminate
> > Jews..
> >
> > Now that is real programming!
> 
> REPLY:  There were many many Christians in addition to Jews that died
> at the Hands of Hitler and his Regime ;  45,000,000 Christians is
> unsupported however and extremely doubtful.  And best accounts show
> that close to 6 million Jews died in the Camps overall.   The fallout
> of survival of the fitest philosophys (Macro Evolution/Atheism) is not
> only displayed in the Halocaust but also with other atheist upholding
> Tyrrants amounting to many millions overall because they were looked
> upon as being 'a deficient minority' in the progress of 'Evolution' .
> The truth of the matter, is,  we are ALL ONE RACE  and each has equal
> dignity and worth from being fashioned in the image of the personal
> Creator.  We are ONE RACE and ONE BLOOD ; unless you can show another
> human being having blood color different from red.

In spite of what people here have said in the past, I think Dave's heart 
is in the right place.

Bravo, Dave!


Alwyn

Alwyn wrote:
> In article 
> ,
>  "IlBeBauck@gmail.com"  wrote:
> 
>> On Aug 22, 5:56 am, leonard-abb...@webtv.net (Leonard Abbott) wrote:
>>>  Re: Most of the people that died at Dachau were Non-Jews   (JJ)
>>>  (Jack Johnson)
>>> I am speechless!     I have heard there are holocaust deniers, but
>>> I've never met one before......until now.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> Answer: I am not a holocaust denier, WWII was a holocaust, 3 million
>>> Jews died, and 45 million Christians also died,
>>> Th
>>> But the world has a problem, They are told by Zionists to remember the
>>> Jews, but forget about the CHRISTIANS THAT DIED..  
>>>
>>> Ten times more Catholics died fighting against Zionism's desire for
>>> world conquest, but programmed Catholics are told they were really not
>>> Catholics but rather they were Fascists and Nazis. out to exterminate
>>> Jews..
>>>
>>> Now that is real programming!
>> REPLY:  There were many many Christians in addition to Jews that died
>> at the Hands of Hitler and his Regime ;  45,000,000 Christians is
>> unsupported however and extremely doubtful.  And best accounts show
>> that close to 6 million Jews died in the Camps overall.   The fallout
>> of survival of the fitest philosophys (Macro Evolution/Atheism) is not
>> only displayed in the Halocaust but also with other atheist upholding
>> Tyrrants amounting to many millions overall because they were looked
>> upon as being 'a deficient minority' in the progress of 'Evolution' .
>> The truth of the matter, is,  we are ALL ONE RACE  and each has equal
>> dignity and worth from being fashioned in the image of the personal
>> Creator.  We are ONE RACE and ONE BLOOD ; unless you can show another
>> human being having blood color different from red.
> 
> In spite of what people here have said in the past, I think Dave's heart 
> is in the right place.
> 
> Bravo, Dave!

Alwyn, I'd have to assume that your response is intended to be 
ironic, or that you are simply making the point that it wasn't only 
jews that died?

You weren't offering support for the view that Hitler was practising 
"Social Darwinism" or that he was an atheist, were you (being as we 
know that Darwinism doesn't express any support for such a social 
policy and that Hitler was a devout catholic - both intended by Dave 
to be slurs and to prompt a response, which you gave him)?

regards, Ian

In article <aN2dnYfVOu3iLC7VnZ2dnUVZ8v3inZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
 Ian Smith  wrote:
> 
> Alwyn, I'd have to assume that your response is intended to be 
> ironic, or that you are simply making the point that it wasn't only 
> jews that died?

I meant to congratulate Dave on disagreeing with the OP's fascist and 
historical-revisionist opinions. That is entirely creditable. Of course, 
I don't agree with all the detail.

> You weren't offering support for the view that Hitler was practising 
> "Social Darwinism"

Social Darwinism is *laissez faire*, letting nature take its course in 
eliminating the unfit. Hitler was very much an interventionist, but the 
aim was the same: to improve the human gene pool.

> or that he was an atheist,

He claimed to be doing God's work, and I have no reason to believe he 
was not sincere.

> were you (being as we 
> know that Darwinism doesn't express any support for such a social 
> policy

There is such a thing as social Darwinism. Herbert Spencer was an 
exponent thereof, and also, I suspect, present-day right-wing 
libertarians, though they'd probably be loth to admit it.

> and that Hitler was a devout catholic

This is certainly false. Senior members of the Nazi party had been 
excommunicated early on by the German bishops. The only way Hitler could 
have returned to the fold would be by abandoning National Socialism, 
which of course he would never do.

> - both intended by Dave 
> to be slurs and to prompt a response, which you gave him)?

Dave said the right thing in opposing the OP. As I said above, I didn't 
find all of it acceptable, just the general tenor.


Alwyn

On Aug 26, 12:32 am, Ian Smith 
wrote:

> Alwyn, I'd have to assume that your response is intended to be
> ironic, or that you are simply making the point that it wasn't only
> jews that died?
>
> You weren't offering support for the view that Hitler was practising
> "Social Darwinism" or that he was an atheist, were you (being as we
> know that Darwinism doesn't express any support for such a social
> policy and that Hitler was a devout catholic - both intended by Dave
> to be slurs and to prompt a response, which you gave him)?
>
> regards, Ian

What I find interesting is that Dimwit used to support everything that
Lenny (another webtv idjit) posted, UNTIL discovering that Lenny was a
bible thumping JW and not a bible thumping evangelical, yet they both
thump the same 2000 year old book of fables, fairy tales, myths,
superstition. and fiction

"Ken"  wrote in message 
news:098052d9-87bf-454b-b5db-1b4da2d95ce5@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 26, 12:32 am, Ian Smith 
wrote:

> Alwyn, I'd have to assume that your response is intended to be
> ironic, or that you are simply making the point that it wasn't only
> jews that died?
>
> You weren't offering support for the view that Hitler was practising
> "Social Darwinism" or that he was an atheist, were you (being as we
> know that Darwinism doesn't express any support for such a social
> policy and that Hitler was a devout catholic - both intended by Dave
> to be slurs and to prompt a response, which you gave him)?
>
> regards, Ian

<What I find interesting is that Dimwit used to support everything that
Lenny (another webtv idjit) posted, UNTIL discovering that Lenny was a
bible thumping JW and not a bible thumping evangelical, yet they both
thump the same 2000 year old book of fables, fairy tales, myths,
superstition. and fiction>

You really do need to choose the people to whom you are unpleasant more 
carefully.  Do you realise that you are dissing a man who recognised a point 
of agreement, with someone with whom he mostly disagrees, in giving a stiff 
arm tackle to a Holocaust supporter?

Alwyn wrote:

> 
>> and that Hitler was a devout catholic
> 
> This is certainly false. Senior members of the Nazi party had been 
> excommunicated early on by the German bishops. The only way Hitler could 
> have returned to the fold would be by abandoning National Socialism, 
> which of course he would never do.

Yes - I should have left it at 'devout'.

He hated the organised church, Catholicism and Christianity - 
presumably because they may have presented a threat to him.

I don't think that he was ever formally excommunicated and Germany 
signed a concordat with the vatican as late as 1936, so relations 
between the two were still jovial.

regards, Ian

John Brockbank wrote:

> 
> You really do need to choose the people to whom you are unpleasant more 
> carefully.  Do you realise that you are dissing a man who recognised a point 
> of agreement, with someone with whom he mostly disagrees, in giving a stiff 
> arm tackle to a Holocaust supporter? 

I wasn't in any way unpleasant! I simply wanted to clarify the 
extent of the agreement, which I suspected was only limited - which 
has now been confirmed.

regards, Ian

Alwyn wrote:

> 
>> and that Hitler was a devout catholic
> 
> This is certainly false.

This seems to give a good summary:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/murphy_19_2.html

regards, Ian

On Aug 26, 7:06 am, Alwyn  wrote:
> In article
> ,
>
>
>
>  "IlBeBa...@gmail.com"  wrote:
> > On Aug 22, 5:56 am, leonard-abb...@webtv.net (Leonard Abbott) wrote:
> > >  Re: Most of the people that died at Dachau were Non-Jews   (JJ)
> > >  (Jack Johnson)
> > > I am speechless!     I have heard there are holocaust deniers, but
> > > I've never met one before......until now.
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > Answer: I am not a holocaust denier, WWII was a holocaust, 3 million
> > > Jews died, and 45 million Christians also died,
> > > Th
> > > But the world has a problem, They are told by Zionists to remember the
> > > Jews, but forget about the CHRISTIANS THAT DIED..  
>
> > > Ten times more Catholics died fighting against Zionism's desire for
> > > world conquest, but programmed Catholics are told they were really not
> > > Catholics but rather they were Fascists and Nazis. out to exterminate
> > > Jews..
>
> > > Now that is real programming!
>
> > REPLY:  There were many many Christians in addition to Jews that died
> > at the Hands of Hitler and his Regime ;  45,000,000 Christians is
> > unsupported however and extremely doubtful.  And best accounts show
> > that close to 6 million Jews died in the Camps overall.   The fallout
> > of survival of the fitest philosophys (Macro Evolution/Atheism) is not
> > only displayed in the Halocaust but also with other atheist upholding
> > Tyrrants amounting to many millions overall because they were looked
> > upon as being 'a deficient minority' in the progress of 'Evolution' .
> > The truth of the matter, is,  we are ALL ONE RACE  and each has equal
> > dignity and worth from being fashioned in the image of the personal
> > Creator.  We are ONE RACE and ONE BLOOD ; unless you can show another
> > human being having blood color different from red.
>
> In spite of what people here have said in the past, I think Dave's heart
> is in the right place.
>
> Bravo, Dave!
>
> Alwyn

"Heart in the right place"? Possibly. We are a species with a 'moral
code' that has developed over billions of years of evolution. Social
behaviour has proved (so far) to best serve the individual drive to
survive, and to ensure the survival of our genes (kin selection). One
behavioural trait that evolved as a consequence is the practice of
reciprocal altruism. On balance only in extreme survival situations is
this drive counterproductive... in which case we may resort to
somewhat more 'primitive' behaviour (eg mothers abandoning or even
killing their offspring). So having one's "heart in the right place"
is pretty much par for the course for all of us. We evolved that way.
We might well not be here otherwise.

Inevitable really - some of our competitors (ignoring our uneasy
symbiotic relationship with the microscopic).were bigger, stronger,
faster. Cooperation, individuals playing to their strengths within a
team, helped to give us an edge, leaving humanity a dominant species
on this planet...

Unfortunately though, unlike most people's hearts, whether their
ability to think rationally is always located in the right place is
another issue. Conformity as well as cooperation is a basic
instinctive drive, a byproduct of the advantages of social behaviour
to the individual and to the survival of his/her genes. However over
time with the increasing number of different options on offer to
conform to, it was somewhat inevitable that certain 'truths'
clamouring for our allegiance ended up in direct competition. These
byproduct behavioural traits are a consequence of social behaviour,
but do not necessarily contribute to (or may actively work against)
our success as a species. Ergo, the multiplicity of different
religions. People are wired up to prefer to believe... but not for the
external, god-given reasons religionists would like to think. Kind of
an accident, really.

So as a result we get the DILVs of this world talking about how we are
all brothers ... that is, until they are unable to convince us over to
their particular mythology (religious or otherwise). Then dissenters
become the spawn of the devil. Ironic really, that they can't see how
intolerant they actually are.

pg

PG wrote:
> These
> byproduct behavioural traits are a consequence of social behaviour,
> but do not necessarily contribute to (or may actively work against)
> our success as a species.

I'd have thought that religious belief was a product of our evolved 
behaviour.

Dawkins speculated that gullibility in early life is a survival 
benefit. If children are told "Don't play near the Limpopo, as 
you'll get eaten by crocodiles" the kids that belief it without 
question are likely to be the ones that survive to breed.

You can also see traits in religions that might benefit survival - 
in-group altruism and out-group hostility might help in a tribal 
environment and taboos on sex outside marriage (enforced by stoning 
to death) prevent the spread of STDs and acts as effective birth 
control.

As you point out, there are plenty of religious behavioural traits 
that now may even threaten our survival.

regards, Ian

In article <Zsmdna-Q0JER_SnVRVnyjQA@posted.plusnet>,
 Ian Smith  wrote:

> Alwyn wrote:
> 
> > 
> >> and that Hitler was a devout catholic
> > 
> > This is certainly false.
> 
> This seems to give a good summary:
> 
> http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/murphy_19_2.html

That's anti-Christian propaganda. It gives the false impression, among 
other things, that all Lutherans were antisemites because Luther had 
written some anti-Jewish tracts. The truth is that those tracts had lain 
forgotten for centuries until the Nazis exhumed them and made them 
public to help their own case.

It also quotes with approval a historian who asserts that Hitler always 
remained a 'Catholic in good standing'. The German bishops' conference 
of 1930 had voted to excommunicate all but rank-and-file members of the 
National Socialist party, and continued deep disapproval of Nazi policy 
by the church hierarchy was evidenced in no uncertain terms by the papal 
encyclical, *Mit brennender Sorge* in 1937. It is true that the papal 
nuncio, Eugenio Pacelli, championed a pact with the Nazi-led government, 
but this was seen as a means of protecting the interests of the Church 
against a hostile regime; Pacelli was naive if he believed the Nazis 
would keep their part of the bargain.

I suggest a more balanced account of the relationship of the churches 
with German National Socialism can be found here:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_and_Religion>


Alwyn

Alwyn wrote:

>>
>> http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/murphy_19_2.html
> 
> That's anti-Christian propaganda. It gives the false impression, among 
> other things, that all Lutherans were antisemites because Luther had 
> written some anti-Jewish tracts.

I don't believe it does give that impression. The words used are "in 
great measure".

> 
> It also quotes with approval a historian who asserts that Hitler always 
> remained a 'Catholic in good standing'. The German bishops' conference 
> of 1930 had voted to excommunicate all but rank-and-file members of the 
> National Socialist party, and continued deep disapproval of Nazi policy

A vote for excommunication has no relevance in this context. Surely, 
what we were discussing was Hitler's religious beliefs - he stated 
clearly that he remained a catholic.

regards, Ian

In article <jLudncF4iM9I2SjVnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
 Ian Smith  wrote:

> Alwyn wrote:
>
> > It also quotes with approval a historian who asserts that Hitler always 
> > remained a 'Catholic in good standing'. The German bishops' conference 
> > of 1930 had voted to excommunicate all but rank-and-file members of the 
> > National Socialist party, and continued deep disapproval of Nazi policy
> 
> A vote for excommunication has no relevance in this context. Surely, 
> what we were discussing was Hitler's religious beliefs - he stated 
> clearly that he remained a catholic.

But a Catholic in good standing is by definition one who is in full 
communication with his or her church.

Silvio Berlusconi vehemently declares himself to be a faithful Catholic, 
yet when he presents himself for communion, it is regularly refused him. 
Why? It's because he has divorced an married again, something that is in 
flagrant contravention of Church teaching (and indeed the words of 
Christ himself). Berlusconi is therefore regarded as an unrepentant 
sinner and is in no way a Catholic in good standing.


Alwyn

Alwyn wrote:

> 
> But a Catholic in good standing is by definition one who is in full 
> communication with his or her church.

I didn't describe Hitler as "in good standing". I believe you picked 
me up for describing him as a "devout catholic". He certainly 
believed himself to be. If you'd prefer "someone who was a devout 
christian and believed himself to be a devout catholic" then that is 
OK by me, but we then get into the sort of discussion popular with 
Dave about whether he was a true christian, let alone a true catholic.

The distinction is arbitrary, just as we could have a fruitless 
discussion with a suicide bomber about who is a true muslim.

The bottom line is that, contrary to what Dave was trying to imply 
and (from your post) you apparently enthusiastically supported, 
Hitler most certainly wasn't an atheist.

regards, Ian

In article <WvidnXpqeOE4wSjV4p2dnAA@posted.plusnet>,
 Ian Smith  wrote:

> Alwyn wrote:
> 
> > 
> > But a Catholic in good standing is by definition one who is in full 
> > communication with his or her church.
> 
> I didn't describe Hitler as "in good standing". I believe you picked 
> me up for describing him as a "devout catholic".

The context was the following:

> Alwyn wrote:
>
> > It also quotes with approval a historian who asserts that Hitler always 
> > remained a 'Catholic in good standing'.

from what you described as 'a good summary'.

> He certainly 
> believed himself to be. If you'd prefer "someone who was a devout 
> christian and believed himself to be a devout catholic" then that is 
> OK by me, but we then get into the sort of discussion popular with 
> Dave about whether he was a true christian, let alone a true catholic.

Has it ever occurred to you that Hitler was lying about this? It 
certainly wouldn't have been the first time.
 
> The distinction is arbitrary, just as we could have a fruitless 
> discussion with a suicide bomber about who is a true muslim.
> 
> The bottom line is that, contrary to what Dave was trying to imply 
> and (from your post) you apparently enthusiastically supported, 
> Hitler most certainly wasn't an atheist.

Here is what Dave wrote:

> The fallout
> of survival of the fitest philosophys (Macro Evolution/Atheism) is not
> only displayed in the Halocaust but also with other atheist upholding
> Tyrrants amounting to many millions overall because they were looked
> upon as being 'a deficient minority' in the progress of 'Evolution' .

It is hard to make complete sense of what the author intended, but he 
seems to be saying that the ideology behind the Holocaust was imbued 
with ideas of 'fitness' taken from evolutionary biology. That is hard to 
deny.

I did endorse Dave's posting enthusiastically, as he seemed for once to 
be saying the right things, and I think that is to be encouraged, don't 
you?


Alwyn

On Aug 27, 2:32 pm, Ian Smith 
wrote:
> PG wrote:
> > These
> > byproduct behavioural traits are a consequence of social behaviour,
> > but do not necessarily contribute to (or may actively work against)
> > our success as a species.
>
> I'd have thought that religious belief was a product of our evolved
> behaviour.
>

Evolutionary psychologists describe a clear distinction between
products and byproducts of the evolutionary process. I sorry if I
didn't make that clear. I'm sure Steven Pinker's explanation will be
far more effective than mine....

It begins...

"To answer the “why is Homo sapiens so prone to religious belief?” you
first have to distinguish between traits that are adaptations, that
is, products of Darwinian natural selection, and traits that are
byproducts of adaptations, also called spandrels or exaptations. An
example: Why is our blood red? Is there some adaptive advantage to
having red blood, maybe as camouflage against autumn leaves? Well,
that’s unlikely, and we don't need any other adaptive explanation,
either. The explanation for why our blood is red is that it is
adaptive to have a molecule that can carry oxygen, mainly hemoglobin.
Hemoglobin happens to be red when it's oxygenated, so the redness of
our blood is a byproduct of the chemistry of carrying oxygen. The
color per se was not selected for. Another non-adaptive explanation
for a biological trait is genetic drift. Random stuff happens in
evolution. Certain traits can become fixed through sheer luck of the
draw...."

The full piece ("The Evolutionary Psychology of Religion") can be
read here:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/prxfr

The way religionists still cling to external explanations of
'morality' in the light of the research going on in the field of
evolutionary psychology is pathetic. But I understand why - it is the
theists' last stand. If morality isn't god-given, then the whole
religious temple of cards comes tumbling down.

pg

Alwyn wrote:

> 
> I did endorse Dave's posting enthusiastically, as he seemed for
> once to be saying the right things, and I think that is to be
> encouraged, don't you?

... and you feel the following should be encouraged, do you?

> The fallout of survival of the fitest philosophys (Macro
> Evolution/Atheism) is not only displayed in the Halocaust but
> also with other atheist upholding Tyrrants amounting to many
> millions overall because they were looked upon as being 'a
> deficient minority' in the progress of 'Evolution' . The truth of
> the matter, is, we are ALL ONE RACE and each has equal dignity
> and worth from being fashioned in the image of the personal 
> Creator. We are ONE RACE and ONE BLOOD ; unless you can show
> another human being having blood color different from red.

Linking the holocaust with "Macro Evolution/Atheism"?
"...atheist upholding tyrants"?
A "...'deficient minority' in the progress of evolution"?
"... fashioned in the image of a personal Creator"

Alwyn, have you just come home from attending an Alpha course?

regards, Ian

In article <e9qdnWmNVN4_xCvVnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
 Ian Smith  wrote:
> 
> Alwyn, have you just come home from attending an Alpha course?

Yes, they made us roll on the floor and make animal noises. Quack, quack!


Alwyn

"Alwyn"  wrote

> But a Catholic in good standing is by definition one who is in full
> communication with his or her church.

What Catholic is in good standing?

Steve M

"Alwyn"  wrote

> I did endorse Dave's posting enthusiastically, as he seemed for once to
> be saying the right things, and I think that is to be encouraged, don't
> you?

He wasn't saying the right things. He was equating the Nazi genocide with 
evolution which is utterly vile and shows how he has completely 
misunderstood what evolution and macroevolution are. It is yet another slur 
that the Creationist campaigners put out to try and tar the reputation of 
science and human achievement.

Disagreeing with an utter moron like Lenny is nothing to be proud of.

Steve M

In article <55-dnS83ltP3tSrVnZ2dnUVZ8sednZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
 "Steve Marshall"  wrote:

> "Alwyn"  wrote
> 
> > I did endorse Dave's posting enthusiastically, as he seemed for once to
> > be saying the right things, and I think that is to be encouraged, don't
> > you?
> 
> He wasn't saying the right things. He was equating the Nazi genocide with 
> evolution which is utterly vile and shows how he has completely 
> misunderstood what evolution and macroevolution are.

It is a half-truth. The Nazis had pseudoscientific theories which drew 
on the Darwinian idea of fitness.

> It is yet another slur 
> that the Creationist campaigners put out to try and tar the reputation of 
> science and human achievement.

Well, they don't like evolution because it makes their god redundant and 
challenges the authority of their scriptures. It is therefore not 
surprising that they should use all available ammunition against it. 
When carefully examined, of course, the ammunition is seen to consist of 
half-truths, distorted facts and in the worst case outright lies.

> Disagreeing with an utter moron like Lenny is nothing to be proud of.

He actually wrote things that made sense and I agreed with. I thought he 
could do with some encouragement.


Alwyn

"Alwyn"  wrote

> It is a half-truth. The Nazis had pseudoscientific theories which drew
> on the Darwinian idea of fitness.

They may have thought something like that but it wasn't and isn't true. 
Darwin proposed natural selection which would exclude attempted genocide. 
And against their view, Jews survived.

> Well, they don't like evolution because it makes their god redundant and
> challenges the authority of their scriptures. It is therefore not
> surprising that they should use all available ammunition against it.
> When carefully examined, of course, the ammunition is seen to consist of
> half-truths, distorted facts and in the worst case outright lies.

More of the latter.

>> Disagreeing with an utter moron like Lenny is nothing to be proud of.
>
> He actually wrote things that made sense and I agreed with. I thought he
> could do with some encouragement.

You'll just prop up his ego and make him think his ludicrous version of 
events is true.

Steve M.

"Steve Marshall"  wrote in message 
news:Pu6dnSbG0P43-iXVRVnyjgA@posted.plusnet...
>
> "Alwyn"  wrote
>
>> It is a half-truth. The Nazis had pseudoscientific theories which drew
>> on the Darwinian idea of fitness.
>
> They may have thought something like that but it wasn't and isn't true. 
> Darwin proposed natural selection which would exclude attempted genocide. 
> And against their view, Jews survived.
>
>> Well, they don't like evolution because it makes their god redundant and
>> challenges the authority of their scriptures. It is therefore not
>> surprising that they should use all available ammunition against it.
>> When carefully examined, of course, the ammunition is seen to consist of
>> half-truths, distorted facts and in the worst case outright lies.
>
> More of the latter.
>
>>> Disagreeing with an utter moron like Lenny is nothing to be proud of.
>>
>> He actually wrote things that made sense and I agreed with. I thought he
>> could do with some encouragement.
>
> You'll just prop up his ego and make him think his ludicrous version of 
> events is true.
>
> Steve M.
>

Listen matey, you oppose the daft religion-pusher and some others of us will 
oppose the Holocaust supporter looking for some pickings among the atheists.