It doesn't matter if their parents are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Cro
Magnons, Xtian, Buddist, or time travelers from the future, everyone
is born an atheist
All children are born atheists.
They are born without any belief in the afterlife and any supernatural
forces; and without the knowledge that their country is the best
country on Earth, and their race is the best race.
Children are empty vessels which the parents and the rest of society
proceeds to fill up with prejudices and unfounded beliefs.
It's only later that they are brainwashed into believing whatever
paricular fairy tale their parents were also brainwashed into
accepting.

Many people (I'm sure we all can name at least one) don't know it or
refuse to accept it, but everyone is born an atheist, it's not until a
child has religious beliefs pushed on them with out any evidence to
support them that they "think" they're a theist.
The point is that a child doesn't have the ablility to even know what
a religion is to make a educated decision, this is how most are
brainwashed, they get you when you don't have any common sense.
Religion is also just a function based on ones geological position,
meaning that if a religious person was born in another part of the
world, they would have been raised to believe in one of the other
religions we have on our planet.
EACH of which totally believes that their religion is the correct one,
with all the rest of them being wrong. This is why we have Terrorism
in the world today. A believe without evidence is a Dangerous thing.

Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural
phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter,
and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic
units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or
entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or
which transcend nature, or are "super" natural, nor can there be.
Humankind is on its own.

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:17:30 -0700 (PDT), Ken 
wrote:
[..]
>Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural
>phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter,
>and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic
>units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or
>entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or
>which transcend nature, or are "super" natural, nor can there be.
>Humankind is on its own.

No. It simple means not being any kind of theist. This requires no
belief, no doctrine or anything else.

On Jun 21, 8:22 am, Christopher A. Lee  wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:17:30 -0700 (PDT), Ken 
> wrote:
> [..]
>
> >Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural
> >phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter,
> >and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic
> >units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or
> >entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or
> >which transcend nature, or are "super" natural, nor can there be.
> >Humankind is on its own.
>
> No. It simple means not being any kind of theist. This requires no
> belief, no doctrine or anything else.

I believe in science, truth, evidence, but not in invisible sky
faries, afterlives and such BS taken only on faith

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:28:43 -0700 (PDT), Ken 
wrote:

>On Jun 21, 8:22 am, Christopher A. Lee  wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:17:30 -0700 (PDT), Ken 
>> wrote:
>> [..]
>>
>> >Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural
>> >phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter,
>> >and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic
>> >units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or
>> >entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or
>> >which transcend nature, or are "super" natural, nor can there be.
>> >Humankind is on its own.
>>
>> No. It simple means not being any kind of theist. This requires no
>> belief, no doctrine or anything else.
>
>I believe in science, truth, evidence, but not in invisible sky
>faries, afterlives and such BS taken only on faith

So?

No one is born 'an atheist' and no one truly becomes one later on
..except by label willfully.  No one has the kind of FAITH required to
believe in accidents upon enormous accidents for this fine tuned,
tweaked, highly complex existence ...and it is only a charade so the
willful Creator-rejector  can excersise his/her pride and rebellion to
live as they desire . In living this way, they become a god unto
themselves (narcissism) . If its not all about the Creator of this
Universe, then its all about THEMSELVES .   A child has to be taught
opposing philosophical ideas that eventually suppress the knowledge and
awareness of the Creator being real which is evident to all thru things
around them , just as the Bible states (Romans 1:18-22) , so they are
without excuse.   

The final result of a life lived to please SELF ('atheism')  is severe
and endless regret starting the moment physical death arrives . I would
not wish that on my worse enemy and hope none of you  have to endure
that . Its an eternal crime to give God the finger all ones life because
YOU were more important.

On Jun 21, 10:37 am, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa)
wrote:
> No one is born 'an atheist' and no one truly becomes one............(snipped rest of rant)


As usual, Dimwit's rebuttal holds as much water as a colander

Ken wrote:

> 
> Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural
> phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter,
> and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic
> units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or
> entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or
> which transcend nature, or are "super" natural, nor can there be.
> Humankind is on its own.
> 

Ken,

Don't expect the rest of us to agree with that.

As an atheist, you may believe those things on your day off, but 
there is no atheist doctrine. This has been one of Dave positions in 
the past.

regards, Ian

In article 
,
 Ken  wrote:

> It doesn't matter if their parents are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Cro
> Magnons, Xtian, Buddist, or time travelers from the future, everyone
> is born an atheist
> All children are born atheists.
> They are born without any belief in the afterlife and any supernatural
> forces; and without the knowledge that their country is the best
> country on Earth, and their race is the best race.
> Children are empty vessels which the parents and the rest of society
> proceeds to fill up with prejudices and unfounded beliefs.
> It's only later that they are brainwashed into believing whatever
> paricular fairy tale their parents were also brainwashed into
> accepting.
> 
> Many people (I'm sure we all can name at least one) don't know it or
> refuse to accept it, but everyone is born an atheist, it's not until a
> child has religious beliefs pushed on them with out any evidence to
> support them that they "think" they're a theist.
> The point is that a child doesn't have the ablility to even know what
> a religion is to make a educated decision, this is how most are
> brainwashed, they get you when you don't have any common sense.
> Religion is also just a function based on ones geological position,

Don't you mean 'geographical'?

> meaning that if a religious person was born in another part of the
> world, they would have been raised to believe in one of the other
> religions we have on our planet.
> EACH of which totally believes that their religion is the correct one,
> with all the rest of them being wrong. This is why we have Terrorism
> in the world today. A believe without evidence is a Dangerous thing.

Historically speaking, religion is pretty universal across human 
societies. If everyone is born atheist (which is probably true in my 
view), how did that come about?

> Atheism is a doctrine

Atheism is not a doctrine! You are playing into the hands of Dave and 
his like.

> that states that nothing exists but natural
> phenomena (matter),

That is materialism or a metaphysical belief in scientific naturalism. 
Atheists are not obliged to believe that, and neither are scientists. 
(For the latter, it's just a useful working hypothesis.)

> that thought is a property or function of matter,

Do stones think?

> and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic
> units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or
> entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or
> which transcend nature, or are "super" natural, nor can there be.

You are expressing a particular philosophical position, one which I 
happen to be substantially in agreement with, but it isn't what atheism 
means. For example, many pure mathematicians (some of whom are surely 
atheists!) will insist that mathematical concepts exist apart from 
physical nature.

Alwyn

> Humankind is on its own.

On Jun 22, 2:10 am, Alwyn  wrote:
> In article
> ,
>
>
>
>
>
>  Ken  wrote:
> > It doesn't matter if their parents are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Cro
> > Magnons, Xtian, Buddist, or time travelers from the future, everyone
> > is born an atheist
> > All children are born atheists.
> > They are born without any belief in the afterlife and any supernatural
> > forces; and without the knowledge that their country is the best
> > country on Earth, and their race is the best race.
> > Children are empty vessels which the parents and the rest of society
> > proceeds to fill up with prejudices and unfounded beliefs.
> > It's only later that they are brainwashed into believing whatever
> > paricular fairy tale their parents were also brainwashed into
> > accepting.
>
> > Many people (I'm sure we all can name at least one) don't know it or
> > refuse to accept it, but everyone is born an atheist, it's not until a
> > child has religious beliefs pushed on them with out any evidence to
> > support them that they "think" they're a theist.
> > The point is that a child doesn't have the ablility to even know what
> > a religion is to make a educated decision, this is how most are
> > brainwashed, they get you when you don't have any common sense.
> > Religion is also just a function based on ones geological position,
>
> Don't you mean 'geographical'?
>
> > meaning that if a religious person was born in another part of the
> > world, they would have been raised to believe in one of the other
> > religions we have on our planet.
> > EACH of which totally believes that their religion is the correct one,
> > with all the rest of them being wrong. This is why we have Terrorism
> > in the world today. A believe without evidence is a Dangerous thing.
>
> Historically speaking, religion is pretty universal across human
> societies. If everyone is born atheist (which is probably true in my
> view), how did that come about?
>
> > Atheism is a doctrine
>
> Atheism is not a doctrine! You are playing into the hands of Dave and
> his like.
>
> > that states that nothing exists but natural
> > phenomena (matter),
>
> That is materialism or a metaphysical belief in scientific naturalism.
> Atheists are not obliged to believe that, and neither are scientists.
> (For the latter, it's just a useful working hypothesis.)
>
> > that thought is a property or function of matter,
>
> Do stones think?
>
> > and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic
> > units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or
> > entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or
> > which transcend nature, or are "super" natural, nor can there be.
>
> You are expressing a particular philosophical position, one which I
> happen to be substantially in agreement with, but it isn't what atheism
> means. For example, many pure mathematicians (some of whom are surely
> atheists!) will insist that mathematical concepts exist apart from
> physical nature.
>
> Alwyn


True, and I'm sorry for using a term that could be taken as feeding
dimwit's fundy religious dogma..Ken

On Jun 22, 12:47 am, Ian Smith 
wrote:

>
> As an atheist, you may believe those things on your day off, but
> there is no atheist doctrine. This has been one of Dave positions in
> the past.
>
> regards, Ian

Could it be just be considered a state of mind, or am I just playing
the same name game Dimwit does with his assertions of absolute vs
relative truth.(never understood wtf he's saying with that BS)

"Ian Smith"  wrote

> Ken wrote:
>
>>
>> Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural
>> phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter,
>> and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic
>> units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or
>> entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or
>> which transcend nature, or are "super" natural, nor can there be.
>> Humankind is on its own.
>>
>
> Ken,
>
> Don't expect the rest of us to agree with that.

Physics is about the relationship between matter and energy. Energy isn't 
matter. There's a load of stuff that can't be counted as matter.

Steve M

In article <H8SdnXVnxraZ48PVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
 "Steve Marshall"  wrote:

> "Ian Smith"  wrote
> 
> > Ken wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural
> >> phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter,
> >> and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic
> >> units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or
> >> entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or
> >> which transcend nature, or are "super" natural, nor can there be.
> >> Humankind is on its own.
> >>
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > Don't expect the rest of us to agree with that.
> 
> Physics is about the relationship between matter and energy. Energy isn't 
> matter. There's a load of stuff that can't be counted as matter.

Well yes, but aren't matter and energy two sides of the same coin? I 
imagine that when Ken wrote 'matter' in parentheses, he just meant it as 
shorthand for the aforementioned 'natural phenomena'.

Alwyn

On Jun 22, 3:30 pm, Alwyn  wrote:
> In article <H8SdnXVnxraZ48PVnZ2dneKdnZydn...@posted.plusnet>,
>  "Steve Marshall"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ian Smith"  wrote
>
> > > Ken wrote:
>
> > >> Atheism is a doctrine that states that nothing exists but natural
> > >> phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter> > >> and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic
> > >> units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or
> > >> entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or
> > >> which transcend nature, or are "super" natural, nor can there be.
> > >> Humankind is on its own.
>
> > > Ken,
>
> > > Don't expect the rest of us to agree with that.
>
> > Physics is about the relationship between matter and energy. Energy isn't
> > matter. There's a load of stuff that can't be counted as matter.
>
> Well yes, but aren't matter and energy two sides of the same coin? I
> imagine that when Ken wrote 'matter' in parentheses, he just meant it as
> shorthand for the aforementioned 'natural phenomena'.
>
> Alwyn- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Matter, in the context of what can be observed or measured as opposed
to things/ideas/concepts taken merely on faith/belief

"Ken"  wrote

>Matter, in the context of what can be observed or measured as opposed
>to things/ideas/concepts taken merely on faith/belief

So if nothing exists but matter then we dont' have ideas? May be true for 
some, I suppose.

Steve M

"Steve Marshall"  wrote:

>
>"Ken"  wrote
>
>>Matter, in the context of what can be observed or measured as opposed
>>to things/ideas/concepts taken merely on faith/belief
>
>So if nothing exists but matter then we dont' have ideas? May be true for 
>some, I suppose.
>
>Steve M

Ooooh, philosophy!
A philosopher  said "initially philosophy encompassed the 
whole of science, but it's gradually withdrawn until all that
remains to it is the analysis of language." (paraphrased)

It depends what you mean by "exist". Thoughts don't exist 
in the way that brains do. (My materialistic test of existence
is "can you poke it with a stick?")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existance





-- 
Sleepalot   aa #1385