New poll says almost a quarter of Canadians don't believe in any god
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
at 12:49 on May 31, 2008, EDT.
By Timothy Avery, THE CANADIAN PRESS
TORONTO - Fewer than three-quarters of Canadians believe in a god, suggests 
a new Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey.

"Religion in Canada today is not a particularly divisive subject and 
tolerance levels for different beliefs are high," said Harris-Decima 
president Bruce Anderson. "This is evident in the fact that one in four 
people feel comfortable saying they do not believe in a god."

The poll found 72 per cent of respondents said they believed in a god, while 
23 per cent said they did not believe in any god. Six per cent did not offer 
an opinion.

Results may not total 100 per cent because of rounding.

Polls have told a different story in the United States.

"Canada's secularism stands in clearer distinction, when compared to the 
cultural and political influences of religion in the United States," said 
Anderson. "In one Harris Interactive study in the United States, conducted 
in 2007, the number who said they were non-believers was only eight per 
cent."

Keith Howard, a United church minister and executive director of the 
church's Emerging Spirit program, said the results of the new survey do not 
represent a dramatic change from previous polls about Canadians' beliefs.

"We are past the time of people trashing God," he said. "They are now trying 
to find a safe place where they can nurture that spirituality."

He said a poll done for the church last year indicated Canada is a nation of 
believers, not belongers.

Howard said his sense is that people who believe in a god increasingly 
imagine a nebulous but powerful force for good, rather than the traditional 
concept of a deity.

Indeed, he likened the concept to that of the Force in the Star Wars movies.

A study quoted by Statistics Canada in 2006, found "adult Canadians attach a 
higher degree of importance to religion than religious attendance figures 
alone would indicate."

The study noted only one-third of adult Canadians attend religious services 
at least once a month.

But the study, conducted in 2002, found more than one-half engage in 
religious activities on their own at least on a monthly basis.

Howard said a recent survey done for the United Church rating the importance 
of religion in the daily lives of people around the world placed Canadians 
fourth, behind the United States, Mexico and Italy.

The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey data were gathered by telephone from 
just over 1,000 people between May 22 and May 26.

A sample of the same size has a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points, 19 
times out of 20.

The Harris-Decima poll also indicated:

-(at) Women (76 per cent) were more likely than men (67 per cent) to say 
they believed in a god.

-(at) Canadians over the age of 50 (82 per cent) were far more likely than 
those under the age of 25 (60 per cent) to say they believed in a god. More 
than one in three (36 per cent) of those under the age of 25 said they did 
not believe in any god.

-(at) English Canadians (73 per cent) were more likely than French Canadians 
(67 per cent) to say they believed in a god.

-(at)Belief in a god is higher in rural Canada (76 per cent) than in urban 
Canada (69 per cent).


©The Canadian Press, 2008

On Jun 1, 10:37 am, "graham"  wrote:
> New poll says almost a quarter of Canadians don't believe in any god
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----
> at 12:49 on May 31, 2008, EDT.
> By Timothy Avery, THE CANADIAN PRESS
> TORONTO - Fewer than three-quarters of Canadians believe in a god, suggests
> a new Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey.
>
> "Religion in Canada today is not a particularly divisive subject and
> tolerance levels for different beliefs are high," said Harris-Decima
> president Bruce Anderson. "This is evident in the fact that one in four
> people feel comfortable saying they do not believe in a god."
>
> The poll found 72 per cent of respondents said they believed in a god, while
> 23 per cent said they did not believe in any god. Six per cent did not offer
> an opinion.
>
> Results may not total 100 per cent because of rounding.
>
> Polls have told a different story in the United States.
>
> "Canada's secularism stands in clearer distinction, when compared to the
> cultural and political influences of religion in the United States," said
> Anderson. "In one Harris Interactive study in the United States, conducted> in 2007, the number who said they were non-believers was only eight per
> cent."
>
> Keith Howard, a United church minister and executive director of the
> church's Emerging Spirit program, said the results of the new survey do not
> represent a dramatic change from previous polls about Canadians' beliefs.
>
> "We are past the time of people trashing God," he said. "They are now trying
> to find a safe place where they can nurture that spirituality."
>
> He said a poll done for the church last year indicated Canada is a nation of
> believers, not belongers.
>
> Howard said his sense is that people who believe in a god increasingly
> imagine a nebulous but powerful force for good, rather than the traditional
> concept of a deity.
>
> Indeed, he likened the concept to that of the Force in the Star Wars movies.
>
> A study quoted by Statistics Canada in 2006, found "adult Canadians attach a
> higher degree of importance to religion than religious attendance figures
> alone would indicate."
>
> The study noted only one-third of adult Canadians attend religious services
> at least once a month.
>
> But the study, conducted in 2002, found more than one-half engage in
> religious activities on their own at least on a monthly basis.
>
> Howard said a recent survey done for the United Church rating the importance
> of religion in the daily lives of people around the world placed Canadians> fourth, behind the United States, Mexico and Italy.
>
> The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey data were gathered by telephone from
> just over 1,000 people between May 22 and May 26.
>
> A sample of the same size has a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points, 19
> times out of 20.
>
> The Harris-Decima poll also indicated:
>
> -(at) Women (76 per cent) were more likely than men (67 per cent) to say
> they believed in a god.
>
> -(at) Canadians over the age of 50 (82 per cent) were far more likely than> those under the age of 25 (60 per cent) to say they believed in a god. More
> than one in three (36 per cent) of those under the age of 25 said they did> not believe in any god.
>
> -(at) English Canadians (73 per cent) were more likely than French Canadians
> (67 per cent) to say they believed in a god.
>
> -(at)Belief in a god is higher in rural Canada (76 per cent) than in urban> Canada (69 per cent).
>
> ©The Canadian Press, 2008
>
> begin 666 spacer.gif
> K1TE&.#EA`0`!`( ``````````"'Y! $````` `````!``$```("1 $`.P``
> `
> end

REPLY:  EVERYONE believes in a Theistic Creator (God) but not everyone
wants to admit it, come to terms with it, or surrender thier lives to
God .  Poll results that are accumulated are often based on personal
charades because people dont want to be honest with themselves about
such a topic (due to pride) .

IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:

> 
> REPLY:  EVERYONE believes in a Theistic Creator (God) but not everyone
> wants to admit it, come to terms with it, or surrender thier lives to
> God .  Poll results that are accumulated are often based on personal
> charades because people dont want to be honest with themselves about
> such a topic (due to pride) .

You seem to live in a world in which you can simply invent your own 
mythology to make your irrational beliefs hold together. None of 
your baseless assertions above can be justified.

 From the research I've seen (UK based), these surveys tend to 
over-estimate religious belief for several reasons:
- in societies with a high historical level of belief, people don't 
want to be seen to admit that they have none
- people tend to try to associate with what they see to be their 
cultural grouping (people will tend to claim to be christian when 
they see muslim listed as a alternative)
- people may attend a church simply to be part of a social group, or 
because they enjoy the ritual and a sing-song

On the last point, it has always been asserted that the proportion 
of the population who believe in a god is higher than the proportion 
who attend church regularly. The evidence now appears to be that the 
reverse may possibly be true - that many who attend church have no 
belief in any god. This is certainly true of a number of families 
that I know, where the wife attends church, the husband goes to keep 
her company (although not a believer) and the kids attend because 
they have to. In the case of two of these families, they have 
collectively stopped attending church this last year and in one case 
the wife could now be classed as agnostic (in this case, not sure 
where she stands any more).

It appears as though Canada, and even the US, have started down the 
same path as the UK and Europe where religion is now seen as the 
minority interest of a few old people and of odd sects and immigrant 
communities.

regards, Ian

The message <xqadnT3VvbbyYN_VnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@plusnet>
from Ian Smith  contains these words:

> It appears as though Canada, and even the US, have started down the 
> same path as the UK and Europe where religion is now seen as the 
> minority interest of a few old people and of odd sects and immigrant 
> communities.

It is odd that North America is so backward in this respect but I think
the poll results are distorted by the greater desire for conformity and
the social dimensions of belonging to a specific congregation which are
of far less significance in the UK.   

-- 
********
David WG
********

On Jun 1, 8:37 am, "graham"  wrote:
> New poll says almost a quarter of Canadians don't believe in any god
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----
> at 12:49 on May 31, 2008, EDT.
> By Timothy Avery, THE CANADIAN PRESS
> TORONTO - Fewer than three-quarters of Canadians believe in a god, suggests
> a new Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey.
>
> "Religion in Canada today is not a particularly divisive subject and
> tolerance levels for different beliefs are high," said Harris-Decima
> president Bruce Anderson. "This is evident in the fact that one in four
> people feel comfortable saying they do not believe in a god."
>
> The poll found 72 per cent of respondents said they believed in a god, while
> 23 per cent said they did not believe in any god. Six per cent did not offer
> an opinion.
>
> Results may not total 100 per cent because of rounding.
>
> Polls have told a different story in the United States.
>
> "Canada's secularism stands in clearer distinction, when compared to the
> cultural and political influences of religion in the United States," said
> Anderson. "In one Harris Interactive study in the United States, conducted> in 2007, the number who said they were non-believers was only eight per
> cent."
>
> Keith Howard, a United church minister and executive director of the
> church's Emerging Spirit program, said the results of the new survey do not
> represent a dramatic change from previous polls about Canadians' beliefs.
>
> "We are past the time of people trashing God," he said. "They are now trying
> to find a safe place where they can nurture that spirituality."
>
> He said a poll done for the church last year indicated Canada is a nation of
> believers, not belongers.
>
> Howard said his sense is that people who believe in a god increasingly
> imagine a nebulous but powerful force for good, rather than the traditional
> concept of a deity.
>
> Indeed, he likened the concept to that of the Force in the Star Wars movies.
>
> A study quoted by Statistics Canada in 2006, found "adult Canadians attach a
> higher degree of importance to religion than religious attendance figures
> alone would indicate."
>
> The study noted only one-third of adult Canadians attend religious services
> at least once a month.
>
> But the study, conducted in 2002, found more than one-half engage in
> religious activities on their own at least on a monthly basis.
>
> Howard said a recent survey done for the United Church rating the importance
> of religion in the daily lives of people around the world placed Canadians> fourth, behind the United States, Mexico and Italy.
>
> The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey data were gathered by telephone from
> just over 1,000 people between May 22 and May 26.
>
> A sample of the same size has a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points, 19
> times out of 20.
>
> The Harris-Decima poll also indicated:
>
> -(at) Women (76 per cent) were more likely than men (67 per cent) to say
> they believed in a god.
>
> -(at) Canadians over the age of 50 (82 per cent) were far more likely than> those under the age of 25 (60 per cent) to say they believed in a god. More
> than one in three (36 per cent) of those under the age of 25 said they did> not believe in any god.
>
> -(at) English Canadians (73 per cent) were more likely than French Canadians
> (67 per cent) to say they believed in a god.
>
> -(at)Belief in a god is higher in rural Canada (76 per cent) than in urban> Canada (69 per cent).
>
> ©The Canadian Press, 2008
>
> begin 666 spacer.gif
> K1TE&.#EA`0`!`( ``````````"'Y! $````` `````!``$```("1 $`.P``
> `
> end

And yet so many AmeriKKKans still seem to be stuck in permanent
stupidity

On Jun 1, 2:50 pm, Ian Smith 
wrote:
> IlBeBa...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > REPLY:  EVERYONE believes in a Theistic Creator (God) but not everyone> > wants to admit it, come to terms with it, or surrender thier lives to
> > God .  Poll results that are accumulated are often based on personal
> > charades because people dont want to be honest with themselves about
> > such a topic (due to pride) .
>
> You seem to live in a world in which you can simply invent your own
> mythology to make your irrational beliefs hold together. None of
> your baseless assertions above can be justified.
>
>  From the research I've seen (UK based), these surveys tend to
> over-estimate religious belief for several reasons:
> - in societies with a high historical level of belief, people don't
> want to be seen to admit that they have none
> - people tend to try to associate with what they see to be their
> cultural grouping (people will tend to claim to be christian when
> they see muslim listed as a alternative)
> - people may attend a church simply to be part of a social group, or
> because they enjoy the ritual and a sing-song
>
> On the last point, it has always been asserted that the proportion
> of the population who believe in a god is higher than the proportion
> who attend church regularly. The evidence now appears to be that the
> reverse may possibly be true - that many who attend church have no
> belief in any god. This is certainly true of a number of families
> that I know, where the wife attends church, the husband goes to keep
> her company (although not a believer) and the kids attend because
> they have to. In the case of two of these families, they have
> collectively stopped attending church this last year and in one case
> the wife could now be classed as agnostic (in this case, not sure
> where she stands any more).
>
> It appears as though Canada, and even the US, have started down the
> same path as the UK and Europe where religion is now seen as the
> minority interest of a few old people and of odd sects and immigrant
> communities.
>
> regards, Ian

REPLY: The Creator of the Universe is not mythology in the least. He
is a very necessary Being based on the incredibly complexity that
modern science has determined exists in our Universe ;  It is
intelligent and rational to believe in AND FOLLOW  this Creator
because he has revealed himself to everyone whos ever lived.
Conversely, it is unintelligent and silly to play the charade that
accidents and naturalism can give us incredible complexity as DNA or
the 60 major systems of our Human Anatomy working in unison or the
250 confirmed Physics Constants (Anthropics) working in unison .  You
know as well as everyone else, that,  you dont get these from
accidents and naturalism  . And that they are sheer desperate attempts
to maintain the atheist status quo.  Playing the charade or rounding
up the NG Posse to make  personal defamation attempts doesnt change a
thing ;  design and engineering exists in the Universe and design and
engineering can only come from an intelligent personal Being therefore
there is an intelligent personal Being for the universe ---  this is a
basic scientific law which has never been contoverted. It doesnt
matter what you wish or want to be so ; its what we have and theres no
changing it. ( Its up to YOU to change if your Will will allow)

On Jun 1, 12:50 pm, Ian Smith 
wrote:
> IlBeBa...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > REPLY:  snipped so as not to repeat his BS
>
> You seem to live in a world in which you can simply invent your own
> mythology to make your irrational beliefs hold together. None of
> your baseless assertions above can be justified.

> regards, Ian

Dimwit is, without any shadow of a doubt, the most fucked up person
I've ever had the misfortune to run into. (and I've known some real
wacked out doozies)
Living in some strange alternate universe where the White Knight talks
backwards, the Red Queen lost her head, 2x2 = blue, logic and
proporation doesn't exist, light bends neatly around corners, and time
varies according to the alcoholic content of one's open beer

On Jun 1, 5:27 pm, Trolling Fuckhead Dimwit wrote the usual nonsense
and bullcrap

"Ian Smith"  a écrit dans le message de 
news: xqadnT3VvbbyYN_VnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@plusnet...
| IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:
|
| >
| > REPLY:  EVERYONE believes in a Theistic Creator (God) but not everyone
| > wants to admit it, come to terms with it, or surrender thier lives to
| > God .  Poll results that are accumulated are often based on personal
| > charades because people dont want to be honest with themselves about
| > such a topic (due to pride) .
|
| You seem to live in a world in which you can simply invent your own
| mythology to make your irrational beliefs hold together. None of
| your baseless assertions above can be justified.
|
| From the research I've seen (UK based), these surveys tend to
| over-estimate religious belief for several reasons:
| - in societies with a high historical level of belief, people don't
| want to be seen to admit that they have none
| - people tend to try to associate with what they see to be their
| cultural grouping (people will tend to claim to be christian when
| they see muslim listed as a alternative)
| - people may attend a church simply to be part of a social group, or
| because they enjoy the ritual and a sing-song
|
| On the last point, it has always been asserted that the proportion
| of the population who believe in a god is higher than the proportion
| who attend church regularly. The evidence now appears to be that the
| reverse may possibly be true - that many who attend church have no
| belief in any god. This is certainly true of a number of families
| that I know, where the wife attends church, the husband goes to keep
| her company (although not a believer) and the kids attend because
| they have to. In the case of two of these families, they have
| collectively stopped attending church this last year and in one case
| the wife could now be classed as agnostic (in this case, not sure
| where she stands any more).
|
| It appears as though Canada, and even the US, have started down the
| same path as the UK and Europe where religion is now seen as the
| minority interest of a few old people and of odd sects and immigrant
| communities.

Although this piece in the Independent suggests a total of 40% of Britons are 
sympathetic to creationism in either its basic or pseudo-scientific (ID) form:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vdkbk

This "18-month celebration of evolution and its greatest proponent, Charles 
Darwin" (starting this week, as the article reports) is the sort of thing we 
need - although I have my doubts as to the percentage of a population actually 
capable of taking on board some of the complex issues involved. Over on ukrc at 
the moment there's a debate I'm involved in where believers have raised the 
issue of the low entropy state of the universe after the Big Bang as a counter 
argument in support of creationism. Refuting this requires some understanding of 
theoretical physics, and of current theories (eg the multiverse, arrow of time 
running backwards in 50% of baby universes) ... not just the bald "just because 
we don't yet understand why, doesn't mean we need a 'goddidit' peg to fill the 
hole". Ok these multiverse etc theories are all pretty tentative, but it helps 
to have a grasp of the basics in discussions with believers that actually have 
an IQ (ie not DILV).

Here's a lengthy, but relatively easy to understand recent piece in Scientific 
American on the topic of the origins of the universe:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/5ps6ny

A fascinating read.

But I doubt many of the more complex arguments will ever be taken on board by 
some, simply because it's all too hard to understand. 'Goddidit' and 'Jesus 
saves' is the limit of deep thought for a fair percentage of believers imo. And 
these are the people that the manipulative exploit (as they always have, they're 
the easiest target). So how do we get through to people who just can't 
understand even the basics of the science, or the steps required in rational 
thinking?

There are some new 'reality" shows on satellite tv these days. I was transfixed 
by 'Maury' the other day. I reckon my dog would challenge both the participants 
and the audience in the IQ stakes. Amazing - and we expect these people to 
understand Darwin? Not a hope. I have to say, at one point watching that 
programme I almost began to sypathise with the creationists. Maybe they're right 
after all. At least since the apes, some people don't seem to have evolved at 
all ;-)

pga

IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:

> 
> REPLY: The Creator of the Universe is not mythology in the least....

... and the rest of your argument falls unless you can provide real 
positive evidence to support this statement.

In the meantime, science has established evolution as fact, and 
abiogenesis and the big bang are supported by infinitely more 
evidence that you can provide for your failed hypothesis.

So, feel free to peddle your superstitions, you fool no-one. The 
failed god hypothesis is losing more ground very day without us 
lifting a finger.

regards, Ian

PG wrote:
> "Ian Smith"  a écrit dans le message de 
> news: xqadnT3VvbbyYN_VnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@plusnet...

> 
> Although this piece in the Independent suggests a total of 40% of Britons are 
> sympathetic to creationism in either its basic or pseudo-scientific (ID) form:
> 
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vdkbk
> 

I can't say that I've ever seen any evidence to back that figure. 
The 2001 census appeared to show between 60% and 80% of people 
claimed to be christian, but this was taken at the time to be a 
statement of ethnic grouping, not membership of a religion, and has 
been largely discounted even by the churches. This was the same 
question that gave 0.7% of the population as jedi!

The other question that tends to get a high response is asking if 
people believe in some new age traveller / hippy notion of there 
being "something mystical there".

Otherwise it would be difficult to square that figure with the 60% 
of school leavers who are atheist (i.e. have no belief in any deity) 
and the majority of the remainder probably being best described as 
apatheists!

regards, Ian

Ian Smith  wrote:

> PG wrote: > "Ian Smith"  a écrit
> dans le message de > news: xqadnT3VvbbyYN_VnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@plusnet...
> 
> > 
> > Although this piece in the Independent suggests a total of 40% of
> > Britons are sympathetic to creationism in either its basic or
> > pseudo-scientific (ID) form:
> > 
> > http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vdkbk
> > 
> 
> I can't say that I've ever seen any evidence to back that figure. The 2001
> census appeared to show between 60% and 80% of people claimed to be
> christian, but this was taken at the time to be a statement of ethnic
> grouping, not membership of a religion, and has been largely discounted
> even by the churches. This was the same question that gave 0.7% of the
> population as jedi!

The Jedi holy day is May the 4th (...be with you!) (nyuk-nyuk-nyuk)

> 
> The other question that tends to get a high response is asking if people
> believe in some new age traveller / hippy notion of there being "something
> mystical there".
> 
> Otherwise it would be difficult to square that figure with the 60% of
> school leavers who are atheist (i.e. have no belief in any deity) and the
> majority of the remainder probably being best described as apatheists!

I like that word. Reminds me of a Catherine Tate character.

God...? Jesus...? Am I bovvered?

-- 
Jon

The message <9POdnTyZiq7OLN7VnZ2dnUVZ8qjinZ2d@posted.plusnet>
from Ian Smith  contains these words:

> Otherwise it would be difficult to square that figure with the 60% 
> of school leavers who are atheist (i.e. have no belief in any deity) 
> and the majority of the remainder probably being best described as 
> apatheists!

That is the good news!   As they mature even more of them will abandon
religion.

-- 
********
David WG
********

David Wynne-Griffiths wrote:
> The message <9POdnTyZiq7OLN7VnZ2dnUVZ8qjinZ2d@posted.plusnet>
> from Ian Smith  contains these words:
> 
>> Otherwise it would be difficult to square that figure with the 60% 
>> of school leavers who are atheist (i.e. have no belief in any deity) 
>> and the majority of the remainder probably being best described as 
>> apatheists!
> 
> That is the good news!   As they mature even more of them will abandon
> religion.
> 

The stats are dire for religion.

The average age of CofE congregations is higher than the average of 
the population in general, meaning that numbers must continue to 
decrease.

In couples where both are believers, only about 50% of the kids 
retain the belief. In single parent homes, only 25% of kids believe.

I saw one set of figures for Sunday school attendance where the fall 
was apparently linear. You'd expect the fall to be a percentage, a 
gradual decline never quite reaching zero. A linear decline would 
indicate effectively accelerating decline in percentage terms. 
Sunday school attendance is likely to approximate to zero within 10 
years.

regards, Ian

The message <CeidnQFiHajgrNnVnZ2dnUVZ8qXinZ2d@posted.plusnet>
from Ian Smith  contains these words:

> The stats are dire for religion.

We are at last growing up!

-- 
********
David WG
********