I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which will have
both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal groupings, actually
supports the fundies as a matter of course.

Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.

Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
supporting Jihad. 

Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a sensible
case.


{R}

On May 29, 10:18 am, {R}  wrote:
> I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which will have
> both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal groupings, actually
> supports the fundies as a matter of course.
>
> Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
>
> Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
> supporting Jihad.
>
> Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a sensible
> case.
>
> {R}

REPLY:  Fundamental Islam and Fundamental Christianity are worlds
apart... in ideals, doctrine, and Leaders of each Religion.  It is
disengenuous and false to represent the Christian Faith the same as
Islam . It would be akin to saying Fundamental Atheism is the same as
Fundamental Shamanism.  I hope you will take the time to truly
understand the differences between Islam and The Chirstian Faith thru
googling, and,  by having a close look at this :http://www.anointed-
one.net/thedifference.html

On May 29, 8:40 am, "IlBeBa...@gmail.com"  wrote:
> On May 29, 10:18 am, {R}  wrote:
>
> > I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which will have> > both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal groupings, actually
> > supports the fundies as a matter of course.
>
> > Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
>
> > Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
> > supporting Jihad.
>
> > Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a sensible> > case.
>
> > {R}
>
> REPLY:  Fundamental Islam and Fundamental Christianity are worlds
> apart... in ideals, doctrine, and Leaders of each Religion.  It is
> disengenuous and false to represent the Christian Faith the same as
> Islam . It would be akin to saying Fundamental Atheism is the same as
> Fundamental Shamanism.  I hope you will take the time to truly
> understand the differences between Islam and The Chirstian Faith thru
> googling, and,  by having a close look at this :http://www.anointed-
> one.net/thedifference.html

TOTAL FUCKING BULLCRAP!
All religious fundies are exactly alike.
Their only motivation to push their psychotic view of religious
delusions onto others.
DILV being a PERFECT example of such a raving lunatic

{R} wrote:
> I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which will have
> both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal groupings, actually
> supports the fundies as a matter of course.
> 
> Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
> 
> Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
> supporting Jihad. 
> 
> Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a sensible
> case.

There is, in fact, a very good case to be made.

It is difficult to see how the "afternoon tea and bring-and-buy 
sale" CofE adherents are knowingly doing this, but they all act to 
give validity to the radical/fundamentalists views.

Once you get a large collection of people believing in a mythical 
deity that makes demands of its followers as to how they should 
behave, then the critical issue becomes - who decides what the deity 
is demanding?

The radicals will assert that the moderate groups are not true 
believers and the moderates will assert that the radicals have got 
the wrong message (as Tony Blair did after the London bombings).

Either way, there is always enough material in any holy book to 
build a radical viewpoint. The very fact that a large group of 
people believe in the deity and holy book gives the radicals a 
launching platform for their fruitcake views. Of course, the 
moderate's views are just as fruitcake, but not so immediately 
dangerous.

The fact remains that the radicals wouldn't survive if it weren't 
for the support of infrastructure provided by the moderates.

regards, Ian

On May 29, 2:21 pm, Ian Smith 
wrote:
> {R} wrote:
> > I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which will have> > both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal groupings, actually
> > supports the fundies as a matter of course.
>
> > Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
>
> > Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
> > supporting Jihad.
>
> > Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a sensible> > case.
>
> There is, in fact, a very good case to be made.
>
> It is difficult to see how the "afternoon tea and bring-and-buy
> sale" CofE adherents are knowingly doing this, but they all act to
> give validity to the radical/fundamentalists views.
>
> Once you get a large collection of people believing in a mythical
> deity that makes demands of its followers as to how they should
> behave, then the critical issue becomes - who decides what the deity
> is demanding?
>
> The radicals will assert that the moderate groups are not true
> believers and the moderates will assert that the radicals have got
> the wrong message (as Tony Blair did after the London bombings).
>
> Either way, there is always enough material in any holy book to
> build a radical viewpoint. The very fact that a large group of
> people believe in the deity and holy book gives the radicals a
> launching platform for their fruitcake views. Of course, the
> cal moderate's views are just as fruitcake, but not so immediately
> dangerous.
>
> The fact remains that the radicals wouldn't survive if it weren't
> for the support of infrastructure provided by the moderates.
>
> regards, Ian

REPLY:  There is no 'mythical diety'  ;  every single design requires
a Designer...a Person with a Mind , a Will, and the Power to bring it
about.  The Universe displays scientifically confirmed Design and
incredible engineering which is available to all who care to do a
simple google.  However, its not evidence that is really required ---
its almost always a blatant refusal to entertain an intelligent
Creator based on personal philosophical reasons (often with sexual
freedom being at forefront).  The Atheist Faith requires such enormous
FAITH (in nothing and accidents)  that it will always be a substantial
minority in the world. Everyone knows that there has to be a presiding
Designer/Creator/Sustainer for this highly intelligently designed,
personal  Universe --  even self-labeled 'Atheists' .  To play the
charade all of ones life is missing ones actual ultimate purpose in
being alive . Its all about THE CREATOR, and not us (or our
genitals)  !

On May 29, 1:17 pm, "IlBeBa...@gmail.com"  wrote:
> On May 29, 2:21 pm, Ian Smith 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > {R} wrote:
> > > I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which will have
> > > both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal groupings, actually
> > > supports the fundies as a matter of course.
>
> > > Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
>
> > > Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
> > > supporting Jihad.
>
> > > Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a sensible
> > > case.
>
> > There is, in fact, a very good case to be made.
>
> > It is difficult to see how the "afternoon tea and bring-and-buy
> > sale" CofE adherents are knowingly doing this, but they all act to
> > give validity to the radical/fundamentalists views.
>
> > Once you get a large collection of people believing in a mythical
> > deity that makes demands of its followers as to how they should
> > behave, then the critical issue becomes - who decides what the deity
> > is demanding?
>
> > The radicals will assert that the moderate groups are not true
> > believers and the moderates will assert that the radicals have got
> > the wrong message (as Tony Blair did after the London bombings).
>
> > Either way, there is always enough material in any holy book to
> > build a radical viewpoint. The very fact that a large group of
> > people believe in the deity and holy book gives the radicals a
> > launching platform for their fruitcake views. Of course, the
> > cal moderate's views are just as fruitcake, but not so immediately
> > dangerous.
>
> > The fact remains that the radicals wouldn't survive if it weren't
> > for the support of infrastructure provided by the moderates.
>
> > regards, Ian
>
> REPLY:  There is no 'mythical diety'  ;  every single design requires
> a Designer...a Person with a Mind , a Will, and the Power to bring it
> about.  The Universe displays scientifically confirmed Design and
> incredible engineering which is available to all who care to do a
> simple google.  However, its not evidence that is really required ---
> its almost always a blatant refusal to entertain an intelligent
> Creator based on personal philosophical reasons (often with sexual
> freedom being at forefront).  The Atheist Faith requires such enormous
> FAITH (in nothing and accidents)  that it will always be a substantial
> minority in the world. Everyone knows that there has to be a presiding
> Designer/Creator/Sustainer for this highly intelligently designed,
> personal  Universe --  even self-labeled 'Atheists' .  To play the
> charade all of ones life is missing ones actual ultimate purpose in
> being alive . Its all about THE CREATOR, and not us (or our
> genitals)  !- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

ANOTHER LOAD OF DILV BULLSHIT

Followed by more unfounded statements based on flawed logic, spouting
off
personal opinions and expecting other to accept them with any proof
or
evidence, posting faked, altered, doctored and mined quotes, posting
links
to fundy/creationiast sites written by equally deluded religious
wackos, and then change the subject so he can control the content of
the thread

You're an asshole
You're always been an asshole
You always be an asshole

On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:21:53 +0100, Ian Smith
 wrote:

>{R} wrote:
>> I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which will have
>> both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal groupings, actually
>> supports the fundies as a matter of course.
>> 
>> Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
>> 
>> Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
>> supporting Jihad. 
>> 
>> Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a sensible
>> case.
>
>There is, in fact, a very good case to be made.
>
>It is difficult to see how the "afternoon tea and bring-and-buy 
>sale" CofE adherents are knowingly doing this, but they all act to 
>give validity to the radical/fundamentalists views.

They plant the seeds form which fundamentalism grows. Because the
don't teach their kids how to cope with them.

Once a kid has answered "yes" to "do you believe in the Bible?" he has
committed himself to believing the bits he had never taken any notice
of previously.

On May 29, 6:18 pm, Christopher A. Lee  wrote:
> On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:21:53 퍝, Ian Smith
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> >{R} wrote:
> >> I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which will have
> >> both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal groupings, actually
> >> supports the fundies as a matter of course.
>
> >> Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
>
> >> Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
> >> supporting Jihad.
>
> >> Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a sensible
> >> case.
>
> >There is, in fact, a very good case to be made.
>
> >It is difficult to see how the "afternoon tea and bring-and-buy
> >sale" CofE adherents are knowingly doing this, but they all act to
> >give validity to the radical/fundamentalists views.
>
> They plant the seeds form which fundamentalism grows. Because the
> don't teach their kids how to cope with them.
>
> Once a kid has answered "yes" to "do you believe in the Bible?" he has
> committed himself to believing the bits he had never taken any notice
> of previously.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

REPLY: And you think Atheist Parents start thier kids on the right
track by having them brainwashed into believing  they are nothing but
the accidental product of Pond Scum ,  there is no such thing as
absolute right from wrong,  they have no ultimate purpose in life,
and they are just another animal trying to fulfill its needs ???
There isnt a worse option than Atheism , for the individual and for a
society.

On May 29, 5:23 pm, "IlBeBa...@gmail.com"  wrote:
> On May 29, 6:18 pm, Christopher A. Lee  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:21:53 퍝, Ian Smith
>
> >  wrote:
> > >{R} wrote:
> > >> I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which will have
> > >> both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal groupings, actually
> > >> supports the fundies as a matter of course.
>
> > >> Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
>
> > >> Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
> > >> supporting Jihad.
>
> > >> Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a sensible
> > >> case.
>
> > >There is, in fact, a very good case to be made.
>
> > >It is difficult to see how the "afternoon tea and bring-and-buy
> > >sale" CofE adherents are knowingly doing this, but they all act to
> > >give validity to the radical/fundamentalists views.
>
> > They plant the seeds form which fundamentalism grows. Because the
> > don't teach their kids how to cope with them.
>
> > Once a kid has answered "yes" to "do you believe in the Bible?" he has
> > committed himself to believing the bits he had never taken any notice
> > of previously.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> REPLY: And you think Atheist Parents start thier kids on the right
> track by having them brainwashed into believing  they are nothing but
> the accidental product of Pond Scum ,  there is no such thing as
> absolute right from wrong,  they have no ultimate purpose in life,
> and they are just another animal trying to fulfill its needs ???
> There isnt a worse option than Atheism , for the individual and for a
> society.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Laffing my ass off at who's in here claiming "brainwashing"
Every person alive is born an atheist, it's only later that delusional
fuckwits like DILV start pushing kids into accepting religious
brainwashing

On Thu, 29 May 2008 17:33:41 -0700 (PDT), Ken 
wrote:

>On May 29, 5:23 pm, "IlBeBa...@gmail.com"  wrote:
>> On May 29, 6:18 pm, Christopher A. Lee  wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:21:53 +0100, Ian Smith
>>
>> >  wrote:
>> > >{R} wrote:
>> > >> I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which will have
>> > >> both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal groupings, actually
>> > >> supports the fundies as a matter of course.
>>
>> > >> Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
>>
>> > >> Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
>> > >> supporting Jihad.
>>
>> > >> Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a sensible
>> > >> case.
>>
>> > >There is, in fact, a very good case to be made.
>>
>> > >It is difficult to see how the "afternoon tea and bring-and-buy
>> > >sale" CofE adherents are knowingly doing this, but they all act to
>> > >give validity to the radical/fundamentalists views.
>>
>> > They plant the seeds form which fundamentalism grows. Because the
>> > don't teach their kids how to cope with them.
>>
>> > Once a kid has answered "yes" to "do you believe in the Bible?" he has
>> > committed himself to believing the bits he had never taken any notice
>> > of previously.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> REPLY: And you think Atheist Parents start thier kids on the right
>> track by having them brainwashed into believing  they are nothing but
>> the accidental product of Pond Scum ,  there is no such thing as
>> absolute right from wrong,  they have no ultimate purpose in life,
>> and they are just another animal trying to fulfill its needs ???
>> There isnt a worse option than Atheism , for the individual and for a
>> society.- Hide quoted text -

This guy's a fucking moron.

>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Laffing my ass off at who's in here claiming "brainwashing"
>Every person alive is born an atheist, it's only later that delusional
>fuckwits like DILV start pushing kids into accepting religious
>brainwashing

Exactly. Atheist parents don't teach there isn't a god. They simply
don't teach there is one. So the atheist's kids stay as atheist as the
day they were born.

IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:

"REPLY:  There is no 'mythical diety' "

~At last you beleive in the Goddess!

<I know, I know; but fair play Atheists: Wouldn't you rather Dimwit were a 
Pagan than a fundy fruitcake?>

-- 
http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
Personalised Desktop Computers

IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:
> On May 29, 6:18 pm, Christopher A. Lee  wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:21:53 +0100, Ian Smith
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>>> {R} wrote:
>>>> I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which
>>>> will have both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal
>>>> groupings, actually supports the fundies as a matter of course.
>>
>>>> Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
>>
>>>> Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
>>>> supporting Jihad.
>>
>>>> Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a
>>>> sensible case.
>>
>>> There is, in fact, a very good case to be made.
>>
>>> It is difficult to see how the "afternoon tea and bring-and-buy
>>> sale" CofE adherents are knowingly doing this, but they all act to
>>> give validity to the radical/fundamentalists views.
>>
>> They plant the seeds form which fundamentalism grows. Because the
>> don't teach their kids how to cope with them.
>>
>> Once a kid has answered "yes" to "do you believe in the Bible?" he
>> has committed himself to believing the bits he had never taken any
>> notice of previously.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> REPLY: And you think Atheist Parents start thier kids on the right
> track by having them brainwashed into believing  they are nothing but
> the accidental product of Pond Scum ,  there is no such thing as
> absolute right from wrong,  they have no ultimate purpose in life,
> and they are just another animal trying to fulfill its needs ???
> There isnt a worse option than Atheism , for the individual and for a
> society.

I reckon this idiot is trying to bore us all to death with repetition of the 
near identical word-for-word same inane crap.

-- 
http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
Personalised Desktop Computers

On May 29, 5:43 pm, "Dr.Hal0nf1r£$"
<fem...@nospam.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> IlBeBa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On May 29, 6:18 pm, Christopher A. Lee  wrote:
> >> On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:21:53 퍝, Ian Smith
>
> >>  wrote:
> >>> {R} wrote:
> >>>> I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which
> >>>> will have both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal
> >>>> groupings, actually supports the fundies as a matter of course.
>
> >>>> Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
>
> >>>> Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
> >>>> supporting Jihad.
>
> >>>> Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a
> >>>> sensible case.
>
> >>> There is, in fact, a very good case to be made.
>
> >>> It is difficult to see how the "afternoon tea and bring-and-buy
> >>> sale" CofE adherents are knowingly doing this, but they all act to
> >>> give validity to the radical/fundamentalists views.
>
> >> They plant the seeds form which fundamentalism grows. Because the
> >> don't teach their kids how to cope with them.
>
> >> Once a kid has answered "yes" to "do you believe in the Bible?" he
> >> has committed himself to believing the bits he had never taken any
> >> notice of previously.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > REPLY: And you think Atheist Parents start thier kids on the right
> > track by having them brainwashed into believing  they are nothing but
> > the accidental product of Pond Scum ,  there is no such thing as
> > absolute right from wrong,  they have no ultimate purpose in life,
> > and they are just another animal trying to fulfill its needs ???
> > There isnt a worse option than Atheism , for the individual and for a
> > society.
>
> I reckon this idiot is trying to bore us all to death with repetition of the
> near identical word-for-word same inane crap.
>
> --http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
> Personalised Desktop Computers- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Look on the good side..
If he flys to California with his boyfriend next month , they can
legally get married, which might keep his fundy ass busy for a while!

IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:

> 
> REPLY:  There is no 'mythical diety'

At last! Welcome to the atheism faith, Dave! Now you are released 
from all your biblical moral obligations, free to rush off and pick 
up a gay prostitute or two, drop a few tabs - you know the form.

Oh, no - sorry, that's what christian evangelical pastors do, isn't it!

Never mind, as an atheist you can always amuse yourself with a bit 
of paedophilia, preferably with nice young choir boys.

Oh, no, sorry again - the catholic priests have already cornered 
that one for themselves!

I guess you could always follow the Satanist branch of the atheist 
church and try to kill a few million people - interfering with 
international aid programmes intended to reduce aids should wipe a 
good few million in africa.

Oh, sorry, wrong again - that one is already dominated by the 
evangelical christians and the catholics together!

Boring, isn't it? As a new atheist, you'll just have sit down and 
live by a set of morals that society has arrived at by rational 
evaluation and debate - just as the rest of us do.

Seriously, if you wish to propose any of what you are posting you 
need to provide real positive evidence for this deity of yours - 
until you do, you'll continue to be written off as a crank by the 
posters on this group.

regards, Ian

Christopher A. Lee wrote:

>> Laffing my ass off at who's in here claiming "brainwashing"
>> Every person alive is born an atheist, it's only later that delusional
>> fuckwits like DILV start pushing kids into accepting religious
>> brainwashing
> 
> Exactly. Atheist parents don't teach there isn't a god. They simply
> don't teach there is one. So the atheist's kids stay as atheist as the
> day they were born.

Not only that, but 50% of children from religious parents now grow 
up as atheists.

Notwithstanding immigration bringing in new congregations, we can 
expect to see religious belief halving every generation - i.e. about 
every 30 to 35 years.

Bearing in mind that the CofE, RC and Church of Scotland are already 
in trouble with finance and recruitment of clergy, collapse is now a 
real possibility!

regards, Ian

Ken wrote:
> On May 29, 5:43 pm, "Dr.Hal0nf1r£$"
> <fem...@nospam.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>> IlBeBa...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On May 29, 6:18 pm, Christopher A. Lee  wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:21:53 +0100, Ian Smith
>>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> {R} wrote:
>>>>>> I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which
>>>>>> will have both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal
>>>>>> groupings, actually supports the fundies as a matter of course.
>>
>>>>>> Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
>>
>>>>>> Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
>>>>>> supporting Jihad.
>>
>>>>>> Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a
>>>>>> sensible case.
>>
>>>>> There is, in fact, a very good case to be made.
>>
>>>>> It is difficult to see how the "afternoon tea and bring-and-buy
>>>>> sale" CofE adherents are knowingly doing this, but they all act to
>>>>> give validity to the radical/fundamentalists views.
>>
>>>> They plant the seeds form which fundamentalism grows. Because the
>>>> don't teach their kids how to cope with them.
>>
>>>> Once a kid has answered "yes" to "do you believe in the Bible?" he
>>>> has committed himself to believing the bits he had never taken any
>>>> notice of previously.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>> REPLY: And you think Atheist Parents start thier kids on the right
>>> track by having them brainwashed into believing they are nothing but
>>> the accidental product of Pond Scum , there is no such thing as
>>> absolute right from wrong, they have no ultimate purpose in life,
>>> and they are just another animal trying to fulfill its needs ???
>>> There isnt a worse option than Atheism , for the individual and for
>>> a society.
>>
>> I reckon this idiot is trying to bore us all to death with
>> repetition of the near identical word-for-word same inane crap.
>>
>> --http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
>> Personalised Desktop Computers- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Look on the good side..
> If he flys to California with his boyfriend next month , they can
> legally get married, which might keep his fundy ass busy for a while!

I'm sure Dimwit's ass would definitely be very busy and very sore too in 
that situation!

-- 
http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
Personalised Desktop Computers

Ian Smith  wrote:

> {R} wrote:
> > I believe it must be possible to argue that any religion which will have
> > both Fundamentalists , a soft center and really liberal groupings, actually
> > supports the fundies as a matter of course.
> > 
> > Whether it is Islam or Christian or Jew.
> > 
> > Thus it should be possible to argue that any Christian is in fact
> > supporting Jihad. 
> > 
> > Well I would like this to be true but I am struggling to make a sensible
> > case.
> 
> There is, in fact, a very good case to be made.
> 
> It is difficult to see how the "afternoon tea and bring-and-buy 
> sale" CofE adherents are knowingly doing this, but they all act to 
> give validity to the radical/fundamentalists views.
> 
> Once you get a large collection of people believing in a mythical 
> deity that makes demands of its followers as to how they should 
> behave, then the critical issue becomes - who decides what the deity 
> is demanding?
> 
> The radicals will assert that the moderate groups are not true 
> believers and the moderates will assert that the radicals have got 
> the wrong message (as Tony Blair did after the London bombings).
> 
> Either way, there is always enough material in any holy book to 
> build a radical viewpoint. The very fact that a large group of 
> people believe in the deity and holy book gives the radicals a 
> launching platform for their fruitcake views. Of course, the 
> moderate's views are just as fruitcake, but not so immediately 
> dangerous.
> 
> The fact remains that the radicals wouldn't survive if it weren't 
> for the support of infrastructure provided by the moderates.
> 
> regards, Ian

I'd agree with this, though I think that Islam is a special case. The
constant daily prayer means the adherents only go a few hours each day
before their thoughts are returned to their religion. This continual
ritualised re-enforcement is the same tactic used by brainwashing cults
like the Moonies, etc. At least the moderate Christians get a few days
off in the middle of the week.

There's something about the total 'submission' demanded by Islam that
seems to keep its followers in an almost childish dependent state.

Churchill wrote this 100 years ago, and I think it still stands up:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as
hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The
effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly
systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of
property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A
degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the
next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every
woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a
child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of
slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among
men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities — but the influence of
the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No
stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund,
Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already
spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every
step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms
of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the
civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of
ancient Rome."
        •       The River War, pp. 248–50 (1899)

-- 
Jon

In article <1ihx78c.n49cst1aom3i4N%jskinner@senet.com.au>,
 jskinner@senet.com.au (Jon Skinner) wrote:
> 
> Churchill wrote this 100 years ago, and I think it still stands up:
> 
> "How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
> Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as
> hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The
> effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly
> systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of
> property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

That's Churchill the imperialist speaking, and imperialists have good 
reason to denigrate the culture of those they exploit.

By some fluke of fortune, capitalism evolved in the Christian West. The 
rest of the world, including lands where Islam dominates, have had a 
hard time catching up. There is no shame in that; it's just the way 
things develop.