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date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:02:08 -0700 (PDT),    group: uk.philosophy.atheism        back       
POPULAR ATHEIST MISCONCEPTION : ' There is no true Science Foreknowledge in the Bible'   
Greetings to you this lovely day in May , as we look further into our
weekend study of : P.A.M.'s .
These are intended primarily for the honest Seeker/Skeptic who has an
open mind and is willing to consider the evidence for a personal
Creator of the Unvierse, and, not for those who 'already know that a
Creator doesnt exist'.

One of the key points for the credibilty of the Bible, is the fact
that there are about 100 Old Testament recordings of what we know
today as Modern Science processes ...back in a time when the science
of that day was vastly different.  The O.T. was written some 2200 to
6000 years ago yet records amazing scientific things that have only
been fairly recently confirmed as true !   While there are about 100
such things, Ive listed 15 of them , following.  Bear in mind that to
the ardent unwilling atheist, no amount of scientific evidence would
ever be enough for one to abandon the comfort of following the atheist
lifestyle , but for those who are serious for the truth and dont have
a closed mind...these compelling 15 are presented for your
consideration :

1. Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see
is composed of invisible atoms. Here, Scripture tells us that the
"things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
2. Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting
in
a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible
consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day.

3. At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large
animal
or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in
space: "He...hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7).

4. The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: "It is
he
that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a
reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere.
Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. At a time when science
believed that the earth was flat, is was the Scriptures that inspired
Christopher Columbus to sail around the world (see Proverbs 3:6
footnote).

5. God told Job in 1500 B.C.: "Can you send lightnings, that they may
go, and say to you, Here we are?" (Job 38:35). The Bible here is
making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement—that
light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you
know that radio waves travel at the speed of light? This is why you
can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the
other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864 when
"British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and
light waves were two forms of the same thing" (Modern Century
Illustrated Encyclopedia).

6. Job 38:19 asks, "Where is the way where light dwells?" Modern man
has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation)
has a "way," traveling at 186,000 miles per second.

7. Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are
received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7:
"When the morning stars sang together..."

8. "Most cosmologists (scientists who study the structures and
evolution of the universe) agree that the Genesis account of
creation,
in imagining an initial void, may be uncannily close to the truth"
(Time, Dec. 1976).

9. Solomon described a "cycle" of air currents two thousand years
before scientists "discovered" them. "The wind goes toward the south,
and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the
wind returns again according to his circuits" (Ecclesiastes 1:6).

10. Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space,
matter,
power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews
in 1450 B.C.: "In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven
[space] and the earth [matter] . . . And the Spirit of God moved
[motion] upon the face of the waters." The first thing God tells man
is that He controls of all aspects of the universe.

11. The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in
our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent
years.
Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled," and many died
because
of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet
Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the
source of life: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."

12. All things were made by Him (see John 1:3), including dinosaurs.
Why then did the dinosaur disappear? The answer may be in Job
40:15–24. In this passage, God speaks about a great creature called
"behemoth." Some commentators think this was a hippopotamus. However,
the hippo’s tail isn’t like a large tree, but a small twig. Following
are the characteristics of this huge animal: It was the largest of
all
the creatures God made; was plant-eating (herbivorous); had its
strength in its hips and a tail like a large tree. It had very strong
bones, lived among the trees, drank massive amounts of water, and was
not disturbed by a raging river. He appears impervious to attack
because his nose could pierce through snares, but Scripture says, "He
that made him can make his sword to approach unto him." In other
words, God caused this, the largest of all the creatures He had made,
to become extinct.

13. Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in
Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death
rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died
after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the
bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go
straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was
their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases
was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before
examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent.
Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they
encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his
issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing,
and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall
be clean" (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their
hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands.
However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running
water."

14. Luke 17:34–36 says the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur
while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime
activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving
earth, with day and night at the same time.

15. "During the devastating Black Death of the fourteenth century,
patients who were sick or dead were kept in the same rooms as the
rest
of the family. People often wondered why the disease was affecting so
many people at one time. They attributed these epidemics to ‘bad air’
or ‘evil spirits.’ However, careful attention to the medical commands
of God as revealed in Leviticus would have saved untold millions of
lives. Arturo Castiglione wrote about the overwhelming importance of
this biblical medical law: ‘The laws against leprosyin Leviticus 13
may be regarded as the first model of sanitary legislation’ (A
History
of Medicine)." Grant R. Jeffery, The Signature of God With all these
truths revealed in Scripture,how could a thinking person deny that
the
Bible is supernatural in origin? There is no other book in any of the
world’s religions (Vedas, Bhagavad-Gita, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc.)
that contains scientific truth. In fact, they contain statements that
are clearly unscientific. Hank Hanegraaff said, "Faith in Christ is
not some blind leap into a dark chasm, but a faith based on
established evidence." (11:3 continued)

Join us next weekend as we examine examine the Atheist Faith a little
closer.  Regards, Dave.
date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:02:08 -0700 (PDT)   author:   unknown

Re: More DILV BULLCRAP   
with 0 content
date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:09:42 -0700 (PDT)   author:   Ken

Re: POPULAR ATHEIST MISCONCEPTION : ' There is no true Science Foreknowledge in the Bible'   
IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:
> Greetings to you this lovely day in May , as we look further into our
> weekend study of : P.A.M.'s .
> These are intended primarily for the honest Seeker/Skeptic who has an
> open mind and is willing to consider the evidence for a personal
> Creator of the Unvierse, and, not for those who 'already know that a
> Creator doesnt exist'.
> 
> One of the key points for the credibilty of the Bible, is the fact
> that there are about 100 Old Testament recordings of what we know
> today as Modern Science processes ...back in a time when the science
> of that day was vastly different.  The O.T. was written some 2200 to
> 6000 years ago yet records amazing scientific things that have only
> been fairly recently confirmed as true !   While there are about 100
> such things, Ive listed 15 of them

If these 15 are the best you can do, then you've already lost the 
argument.

A couple of blindingly obvious points:

- the spherical earth was well known (at least to some) at this time
- the movement of the winds would have been well known to any seafarer

Oh, and the idea of science making predictions ...

A prediction is usually before the event, not a desperate attempt to 
re-interpret things that might just sound a bit similar.

You are just demonstrating to everyone the poverty of your position!

regards, Ian
date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:46:00 +0100   author:   Ian Smith

Re: POPULAR ATHEIST MISCONCEPTION : ' There is no true Science Foreknowledge in the Bible'   
On May 16, 2:46 pm, Ian Smith 
wrote:
> IlBeBa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Greetings to you this lovely day in May , as we look further into our
> > weekend study of : P.A.M.'s .
> > These are intended primarily for the honest Seeker/Skeptic who has an
> > open mind and is willing to consider the evidence for a personal
> > Creator of the Unvierse, and, not for those who 'already know that a
> > Creator doesnt exist'.
>
> > One of the key points for the credibilty of the Bible, is the fact
> > that there are about 100 Old Testament recordings of what we know
> > today as Modern Science processes ...back in a time when the science
> > of that day was vastly different.  The O.T. was written some 2200 to
> > 6000 years ago yet records amazing scientific things that have only
> > been fairly recently confirmed as true !   While there are about 100
> > such things, Ive listed 15 of them
>
> If these 15 are the best you can do, then you've already lost the
> argument.
>
> A couple of blindingly obvious points:
>
> - the spherical earth was well known (at least to some) at this time
> - the movement of the winds would have been well known to any seafarer
>
> Oh, and the idea of science making predictions ...
>
> A prediction is usually before the event, not a desperate attempt to
> re-interpret things that might just sound a bit similar.
>
> You are just demonstrating to everyone the poverty of your position!
>
> regards, Ian

REPLY:  They are predictions. And others in the O.T. written 2-4,000
B.C.  include : Air has weight, the hydrological cycle, the Earth
hangs in space and is a sphere, Incalculable number of stars, Creation
made of invisible elements, Light moves, Winds blow in cyclones, Ocean
floors contain deep valleys and mountains, Ocean contains Springs,
etc..    So...how come you dont want the Bible to be true ???   If it
were true, how would it affect your personal life -- read Romans
1:18-22 before answering. Thanks.
date: Fri, 16 May 2008 14:22:03 -0700 (PDT)   author:   unknown

Re: POPULAR ATHEIST MISCONCEPTION : ' There is no true Science Foreknowledge in the Bible'   
X-No-Archive: yes

 wrote in message 
news:c9bf6482-039b-4d7f-8560-9551925640c3@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On May 16, 2:46 pm, Ian Smith 
wrote:
> IlBeBa...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Greetings to you this lovely day in May , as we look further into our
> > weekend study of : P.A.M.'s .
> > These are intended primarily for the honest Seeker/Skeptic who has an
> > open mind and is willing to consider the evidence for a personal
> > Creator of the Unvierse, and, not for those who 'already know that a
> > Creator doesnt exist'.
>
> > One of the key points for the credibilty of the Bible, is the fact
> > that there are about 100 Old Testament recordings of what we know
> > today as Modern Science processes ...back in a time when the science
> > of that day was vastly different. The O.T. was written some 2200 to
> > 6000 years ago yet records amazing scientific things that have only
> > been fairly recently confirmed as true ! While there are about 100
> > such things, Ive listed 15 of them
>
> If these 15 are the best you can do, then you've already lost the
> argument.
>
> A couple of blindingly obvious points:
>
> - the spherical earth was well known (at least to some) at this time
> - the movement of the winds would have been well known to any seafarer
>
> Oh, and the idea of science making predictions ...
>
> A prediction is usually before the event, not a desperate attempt to
> re-interpret things that might just sound a bit similar.
>
> You are just demonstrating to everyone the poverty of your position!
>
> regards, Ian

REPLY:  They are predictions. And others in the O.T. written 2-4,000
B.C.  include : Air has weight, the hydrological cycle, the Earth
hangs in space and is a sphere, Incalculable number of stars, Creation
made of invisible elements, Light moves, Winds blow in cyclones, Ocean
floors contain deep valleys and mountains, Ocean contains Springs,
etc..    So...how come you dont want the Bible to be true ???   If it
were true, how would it affect your personal life -- read Romans
1:18-22 before answering. Thanks.


These are biblical 'facts'...

 Genesis 1:3-5 (King James Version):  There was light ("night and day") 
before there was a sun. (Note: If there were no sun, there would be no night 
or day. Also, light from the newly created heavenly bodies seems to have 
reached the earth instantaneously though it now takes thousands or millions 
of years.)

Genesis 1:12-16 :  Plants began to grow before there was sunlight

Genesis 4:15  :  A mark is placed on Cain as a distinctive identifying 
symbol when there were only three (known) persons on earth!!!

Genesis 4:17  :  Cain builds and populates a whole city in only two 
generations

Genesis 7:19-20 :  The flood covered the earth with water fifteen cubits 
(twenty plus feet) above the highest mountains.(Note: This would require 
steady, worldwide rainfall at the rate of about 6 inches per minute, 360 
inches per hour, 8640 inches per day--for 40 days and nights--so as to cover 
the entire earth with an endless ocean 5 miles deep, thus burying 29,000 ft. 
Mt. Everest under 22 ft. of water. How did the author know the depth of the 
water? Did Noah take soundings? And where has all this water gone?)

Genesis 9:12-16 :  God first creates the rainbow. (Note: Apparently the laws 
having to do with refraction of light were null and void prior to this 
time.)

2 Kings 20:11 :  The shadow on a sun dial moves backwards

Isaiah 30:26 :  The moon will someday be as bright as the sun now is. (Note: 
Until relatively recent times, the moon and the planets were perhaps thought 
to give off their own light.)

shall I go on....??

Cut and paste the bible reference into here..
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/

[choose king james version]

to get the idea.....

wonderful stuff....
analogy.. no doubt..?
It's rubbish..the whole lot - start to finish.  Tosh.
christian science my ar*e....


Mark
date: Fri, 16 May 2008 23:25:09 +0100   author:   mark

Re: POPULAR ATHEIST MISCONCEPTION : ' There is no true Science Foreknowledge in the Bible'   
IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:

> 
> REPLY:  They are predictions.

No, they are tenuous links made in retrospect by people who 
desperately want it to be true. The best 15 you posted are laughable 
- only the gullible would see a connection.

> So...how come you dont want the Bible to be true ???

Like science, I follow the evidence. I've seen no evidence that the 
bible is anything other than a book of myths that were contemporary 
at the time of writing, passed down verbally, disseminated, 
distorted, embellished, recorded by different people, translated 
into a different language, translated back, modified in copying, 
modified in copying again, corrected and adjusted by well-meaning 
copyists, re-written to update the message...

It is so patently wrong on major issues (evolution and the "global 
flood" for just two) that it is not worth wasting time on.

Face up to it, Dave - you are just part of a group delusion. You'll 
need to face up to it soon - your superstition is in terminal decline.

regards, Ian
date: Sat, 17 May 2008 08:46:54 +0100   author:   Ian Smith

Re: POPULAR ATHEIST MISCONCEPTION : ' There is no true Science Foreknowledge in the Bible'   
The message <n-ydnSOAAp3yELPVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet>
from Ian Smith  contains these words:

> Like science, I follow the evidence. I've seen no evidence that the 
> bible is anything other than a book of myths that were contemporary 
> at the time of writing, passed down verbally, disseminated, 
> distorted, embellished, recorded by different people, translated 
> into a different language, translated back, modified in copying, 
> modified in copying again, corrected and adjusted by well-meaning 
> copyists, re-written to update the message...

The problem is that the idiots believe the bible to be inerrant despite
the ample evidence to the contrary.  There is a state of invincible
ignorance demonstrated by such as Dave which is immune to either facts
or reality.  

-- 
********
David WG
********
date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:55:11 +0100   author:   David Wynne-Griffiths

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