'Atheists have already looked into said rationale; and they concluded
that there is no god.'

REPLY:  THey havent looked into the evidence, and they refuse to because
it is an affront to thier lifestyle freedom . Its like a Theif looking
for a Policeman -- it isnt going to happen.  The fewer implications to
the atheist, the better.  You have concluded there 'is no God'  purely
for your own personal lifestyle benefit and not based on evidence . The
Bible calls this 'willful ignorance'  on behalf of those who make
excuses for there not needing to be a personal intelligent powerful
Creator for our personal, intelligent, awesome Universe.  The evidence
would never be enough nor good enough  because a personal Creator must
never be let thru the door.  Atheism is all about a Crutch ;  a Crutch
that keeps one held in bondage for the ulterior motive of wanting
personal freedom to do as he/she wants ;  it sounds like 'freedom' but
it isnt. Its a slick counterfiet designed to get you thru the gates of
Hell by overtly or covertly rejecting the Creator and his love for you
(the same one might do to his Parents over and over again despite thier
love for thier child).

Atheists :  Youre making your own bed . But youre not going to want to
sleep in it later.  Abandon atheism for selfish gain, and come to the
Creators camp.  Give God a chance with your life and y oull never be
sorry.

In article ,
 DaveInLakeVilla@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote:
> 
> REPLY:  THey havent looked into the evidence, and they refuse to because
> it is an affront to thier lifestyle freedom .

It is an affront to us for you to tell us that we haven't looked into 
the evidence. The fact is that your Christianity just does not make 
sense, and we are incapable of the kind of muddled thinking and 
self-delusion that enables you to believe in it. Speaking for myself, 
even if I was desperate to become a Christian, I just could not do it. 
(Calvinists would of course take this as evidence that I am of the 
reprobate.)

Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
> 'Atheists have already looked into said rationale; and they concluded
> that there is no god.'
>
> REPLY:  THey havent looked into the evidence, and they refuse to
> because it is an affront to thier lifestyle freedom .

...Says the troll who hasn't understood the evidence because he hasn't the 
intellect to be able to do so.

> Its like a
> Theif looking for a Policeman -- it isnt going to happen.

As with most of your crap; this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

>  The fewer
> implications to the atheist, the better.  You have concluded there
> 'is no God'  purely for your own personal lifestyle benefit and not
> based on evidence

...Drivel...

>. The Bible calls this 'willful ignorance'

...Says the willfully ignorant woefully uneducated troll.

<snip bollocks> ("I didn't feel a thing" Says Dimwit.)

> Atheists :  Youre making your own bed . But youre not going to want to
> sleep in it later.

Are you saying that Atheists suffer from insomnia?

> Abandon atheism for selfish gain, and come to the
> Creators camp.

Ok we've had a meeting and we've decided that some of us will try abandoning 
Atheism and take up selfish gain: We'll let you know how we get on.


>  Give God a chance with your life and y oull never be
> sorry.

You'll no longer have the intelligence or self-image to realise what a big 
mistake you made once the brainwashing takes over.

-- 
http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
Personalised Desktop Computers

On May 11, 7:32 am, Alwyn  wrote:
> In article ,
>  DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote:
>
>
>
> > REPLY:  THey havent looked into the evidence, and they refuse to because
> > it is an affront to thier lifestyle freedom .
>
> It is an affront to us for you to tell us that we haven't looked into
> the evidence. The fact is that your Christianity just does not make
> sense, and we are incapable of the kind of muddled thinking and
> self-delusion that enables you to believe in it. Speaking for myself,
> even if I was desperate to become a Christian, I just could not do it.
> (Calvinists would of course take this as evidence that I am of the
> reprobate.)

REPLY: Then, please tell us the steps YOU have taken to look into the
evidence for the Christian Faith, God, historical evidence for Christ
and his resurrection, absolute moral laws, the 250  constant physics
parameters that are scientifically confirmed need for earth to be
here , etc..   Please list your exhaustive sources you have gone to
and list the number of hours you have spent researching this issue
because your eternal destiny may very well be at stake .  Finally,
tell us the chance that you would bow your knee to the Creator of the
Universe if you found that it is certain he exists. Sharron, you do
the same to these questions.

In article 
,
 "IlBeBauck@gmail.com"  wrote:

> On May 11, 7:32 am, Alwyn  wrote:
> > In article ,
> >  DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > REPLY:  THey havent looked into the evidence, and they refuse to because
> > > it is an affront to thier lifestyle freedom .
> >
> > It is an affront to us for you to tell us that we haven't looked into
> > the evidence. The fact is that your Christianity just does not make
> > sense, and we are incapable of the kind of muddled thinking and
> > self-delusion that enables you to believe in it. Speaking for myself,
> > even if I was desperate to become a Christian, I just could not do it.
> > (Calvinists would of course take this as evidence that I am of the
> > reprobate.)
> 
> REPLY: Then, please tell us the steps YOU have taken to look into the
> evidence for the Christian Faith, God, historical evidence for Christ
> and his resurrection, absolute moral laws, the 250 + constant physics
> parameters that are scientifically confirmed need for earth to be
> here , etc..   Please list your exhaustive sources you have gone to
> and list the number of hours you have spent researching this issue
> because your eternal destiny may very well be at stake .

Easy!

The Creation is imperfect and contains manifest suffering, showing no 
evidence of having been created by a good and omnipotent being. In fact, 
the contemporary explanation that the world came about by chance, 
filtered in biology by natural selection, is much more satisfactory.

There is no evidence that a historical person corresponding to Jesus 
ever existed. Even if there was one, Biblical criticism tells us we can 
know nothing about him.

Substitutionary atonement by Jesus for humanity's sins makes no sense at 
all. If you commit an offence, you must pay for it yourself, otherwise 
it becomes a travesty of justice.

As for the '250+ physics constants', I am not a physicist, but I doubt 
they exist. Maybe a kindly physics specialist could explain this to us.

> > Finally,
> > tell us the chance that you would bow your knee to the Creator of the
> > Universe if you found that it is certain he exists. Sharron, you do
> > the same to these questions.

100%

Alwyn

On May 11, 11:22 am, Alwyn  wrote:
> In article
> ,
>
>
>
>
>
>  "IlBeBa...@gmail.com"  wrote:
> > On May 11, 7:32 am, Alwyn  wrote:
> > > In article ,
> > >  DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote:
>
> > > > REPLY:  THey havent looked into the evidence, and they refuse to because
> > > > it is an affront to thier lifestyle freedom .
>
> > > It is an affront to us for you to tell us that we haven't looked into
> > > the evidence. The fact is that your Christianity just does not make
> > > sense, and we are incapable of the kind of muddled thinking and
> > > self-delusion that enables you to believe in it. Speaking for myself,
> > > even if I was desperate to become a Christian, I just could not do it.> > > (Calvinists would of course take this as evidence that I am of the
> > > reprobate.)
>
> > REPLY: Then, please tell us the steps YOU have taken to look into the
> > evidence for the Christian Faith, God, historical evidence for Christ
> > and his resurrection, absolute moral laws, the 250  constant physics
> > parameters that are scientifically confirmed need for earth to be
> > here , etc..   Please list your exhaustive sources you have gone to
> > and list the number of hours you have spent researching this issue
> > because your eternal destiny may very well be at stake .
>
> Easy!
>
> The Creation is imperfect and contains manifest suffering, showing no
> evidence of having been created by a good and omnipotent being. In fact,
> the contemporary explanation that the world came about by chance,
> filtered in biology by natural selection, is much more satisfactory.
>
> There is no evidence that a historical person corresponding to Jesus
> ever existed. Even if there was one, Biblical criticism tells us we can
> know nothing about him.
>
> Substitutionary atonement by Jesus for humanity's sins makes no sense at
> all. If you commit an offence, you must pay for it yourself, otherwise
> it becomes a travesty of justice.
>
> As for the '250 physics constants', I am not a physicist, but I doubt
> they exist. Maybe a kindly physics specialist could explain this to us.
>
> > > Finally,
> > > tell us the chance that you would bow your knee to the Creator of the
> > > Universe if you found that it is certain he exists. Sharron, you do
> > > the same to these questions.
>
> 100%
>
> Alwyn- Hide quoted text -
> ,
> - Show quoted text -

REPLY:  You gave your OPINION only !   You didnt list any sources that
youve heavily investigated for Creation evidence ; have you even done
a simply google for 'Design Evidences for a Creator ' ?!   Or ,this
also getting too close for comfort ?  All youve done is listed
philosophical biases because you dont want a personal Creator to
exist. In other words, you come to the table having your mind already
made up.   Lastly, theres no such thing as atheism because not even
you have the enormous FAITH required for random accidents to give us
our tweaked Universe , first life, or DNA .  In fact, according to
atheist Dr. Francis Crick (coDiscoverer of DNA structure) the chance
probability is 10 the 40,000 th power that life arrived by random
chance thru non intelligent Evolution !  Since he calculates that the
amount of electrons in the universe is only 10 to the 80th power,
your faith in random accidents with time, materials, and non
intelligence....is nothing but a convenient smokescreen.  Its time you
stopped pretending so you can live as you like ., and admit its NOT
evidence that you need, but a change of your WiLL .

In article 
,
 "IlBeBauck@gmail.com"  wrote:
> 
> REPLY:  You gave your OPINION only !   You didnt list any sources that
> youve heavily investigated for Creation evidence ; have you even done
> a simply google for 'Design Evidences for a Creator ' ?!

I don't need to provide documentary evidence for a mainstream view.

> Or ,this also getting too close for comfort ?

I have no idea what you mean.

> All youve done is listed
> philosophical biases because you dont want a personal Creator to
> exist.

i have indicated where the evidence points.

> In other words, you come to the table having your mind already
> made up.

Just like you, in fact.

> Lastly, theres no such thing as atheism because not even
> you have the enormous FAITH required for random accidents to give us
> our tweaked Universe , first life, or DNA .

Disbelief means lack of faith. Therefore you are engaging in 
self-contradiction.

I submit that the possibility of the universe and life being the result 
of an intelligent, good and omnipotent being are considerably less, 
taking in all the evidence, than that which ascribes it to chance and 
natural selection. Of course, other natural forces may be involved as 
well, our understanding so far is only partial.

> In fact, according to
> atheist Dr. Francis Crick (coDiscoverer of DNA structure) the chance
> probability is 10 the 40,000 th power that life arrived by random
> chance thru non intelligent Evolution !

I have no idea what Mr Crick may or may not have said, but there is 
every reason to think you are interpreting it wrongly.

> Since he calculates that the
> amount of electrons in the universe is only 10 to the 80th power,
> your faith in random accidents with time, materials, and non
> intelligence....is nothing but a convenient smokescreen.

All this is total speculation, even if Crick endorses it.

> Its time you
> stopped pretending so you can live as you like ., and admit its NOT
> evidence that you need, but a change of your WiLL .

There is something I do not understand. Liberation is a good thing, 
wouldn't you say? If Christianity is to be equated with slavery, then it 
is to be rejected altogether.

Will is of course another question. I do not believe it is ours to 
control, even though we might think we are doing so.

Alwyn

X-No-Archive: yes

"Alwyn"  wrote in message 
news:alwyn-9ABED4.18265011052008@news.virginmedia.com...

Oh alwyn.......... how have you managed to be sucked into exchanging posts 
with dilv........
Are you seeing the pattern and myopic fundamentalism,  interspersed with 
mindnumbing inanity and dogmatic regurgitation of evangelical messagery...??
Do you feel as though any exchange of ideas are happening..??  Does the 
content of dilv posts hit an intellectual  conductor for you..?
I would hate to count up the times he has posted EXACTLY the same dogma over 
the years.....  it doesn't change and neither does the message...
All he needs is the air of a platform  to survive.....


Mark

IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:
> On May 11, 7:32 am, Alwyn  wrote:
>> In article ,
>> DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> REPLY: THey havent looked into the evidence, and they refuse to
>>> because it is an affront to thier lifestyle freedom .
>>
>> It is an affront to us for you to tell us that we haven't looked into
>> the evidence. The fact is that your Christianity just does not make
>> sense, and we are incapable of the kind of muddled thinking and
>> self-delusion that enables you to believe in it. Speaking for myself,
>> even if I was desperate to become a Christian, I just could not do
>> it. (Calvinists would of course take this as evidence that I am of
>> the reprobate.)
>
> REPLY: Then, please tell us the steps YOU have taken to look into the
> evidence for the Christian Faith, God, historical evidence for Christ
> and his resurrection, absolute moral laws, the 250 + constant physics
> parameters that are scientifically confirmed need for earth to be
> here , etc..   Please list your exhaustive sources you have gone to
> and list the number of hours you have spent researching this issue
> because your eternal destiny may very well be at stake .  Finally,
> tell us the chance that you would bow your knee to the Creator of the
> Universe if you found that it is certain he exists. Sharron, you do
> the same to these questions.

The case is different between Alwyn and myself, (I assume Alwyn is an 
Atheist.) as I am a Pagan evolutionist. You know that I was brought up as a 
Christian, but you will appreciate that as a Pagan, since seeing sense, I 
don't deny the existance of many gods and goddesses, as you are no doubt 
aware.

It is my belief that gods and goddesses, although being aspects of the one 
central Divinity, are brought into reality as beings on a higher plane than 
ours by belief rather than pre-existence: Just the same as if you have 
psychic abilities and invent a ghost then that ghost becomes real; as has 
already been proven with experimentation by psychics and mediums willing the 
imaginary entity into existence. (This is documented although I am currently 
unable to cite or link.) Personally, therefore, I have no doubt that some 
Christians, along with people such as DiLV, have willed the vicious childish 
vengeful proud dysfunctional god Yaweh into existence over the centuries: 
Nevertheless this being is a creation of the human psyche, rather than an 
all-powerful hyperbeing. From the collective will and subconcious of 
millions of believers has arisen a being who does have a lot of power and is 
fed with energies from believers, as are most if not all gods...

Returning to the discussion though I have, as you are fully aware, 
investigated Christianity thoroughly; and I see no reality as such in it; 
rather I see a hateful collection of dysfunctional energies amalgamated into 
this quasi-superbeing bringing overall negative effects to the entire 
universe on a rather worrying scale due to the amount of energies involved.

Not only do I percieve it as mentioned above from a supernatural 
perspective; but also from a more physical slant I note the overbearing 
elements of control and repression, negativity and subversion, created by 
the book-religions: Not just Christianity in all its various forms, but also 
Islaam to Mormonism.

I would gladly honour a Creator if such existed; but since all available 
evidence points to the contrary, then I fail to see the point of trying 
every option in order to force myself to believe otherwise.

-- 
http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
Personalised Desktop Computers

On May 11, 11:36 am, "Dr.Hal0nf1r£$"
<fem...@nospam.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid> wrote:


Sharron
For Shame
You're taking Dimwit's bait

On May 11, 10:26 am, Alwyn  wrote:


You wasting your time on this fundy moron

Ever try nailing Jello to your ceiling?

In article ,
 "mark"  wrote:
> 
> X-No-Archive: yes

Why do you bother with this? When somebody quotes you, your words are 
going to be archived regardless.
 
> "Alwyn"  wrote in message 
> news:alwyn-9ABED4.18265011052008@news.virginmedia.com...
> 
> Oh alwyn.......... how have you managed to be sucked into exchanging posts 
> with dilv........

It makes little difference, does it? Dave will eventually give up the 
discussion as hopeless.

In the meantime, I hope to offer some sense in response to his nonsense.

Alwyn

"Alwyn"  wrote in message 
news:alwyn-493F7C.20422611052008@news.virginmedia.com...
> In article ,
> "mark"  wrote:
>>
>> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> Why do you bother with this? When somebody quotes you, your words are
> going to be archived regardless.
>
>> "Alwyn"  wrote in message
>> news:alwyn-9ABED4.18265011052008@news.virginmedia.com...
>>
>> Oh alwyn.......... how have you managed to be sucked into exchanging 
>> posts
>> with dilv........
>
> It makes little difference, does it? Dave will eventually give up the
> discussion as hopeless.

No he won't unless you pose an awkward question!  Then he will just ignore 
you and start another thread spouting the same nonsense.  That's how he gets 
his jollies by baiting atheists.  And so it goes on, and on, 
and.............

>
> In the meantime, I hope to offer some sense in response to his nonsense.
>
Several of us have tried.  It is absolutely pointless and frustrating. 
That's why I and many others here have plonked him.
Graham

On May 11, 12:42 pm, Alwyn  wrote:
> In article ,
>
>  "mark"  wrote:
>
> > X-No-Archive: yes
>
> Why do you bother with this? When somebody quotes you, your words are
> going to be archived regardless.
>
> > "Alwyn"  wrote in message
> >news:alwyn-9ABED4.18265011052008@news.virginmedia.com...
>
> > Oh alwyn.......... how have you managed to be sucked into exchanging posts
> > with dilv........
>
> It makes little difference, does it? Dave will eventually give up the
> discussion as hopeless.
>
> In the meantime, I hope to offer some sense in response to his nonsense.
>
> Alwyn

All Dimwit ever posts is his religious "nonsense"
No amount of reason or logic will silence him.
Dimwit will keep spouting this "nonsense" over and over again, hoping
that persistance will defeat all those atheist quixotic windmills

Ken wrote:
> On May 11, 11:36 am, "Dr.Hal0nf1r£$"
> <fem...@nospam.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> Sharron
> For Shame
> You're taking Dimwit's bait

! :-(  !

Just testing...To make sure you're awake.

-- 
http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
Personalised Desktop Computers

On May 11, 2:58 pm, "Dr.Hal0nf1r£$"
<fem...@nospam.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> Ken wrote:
> > On May 11, 11:36 am, "Dr.Hal0nf1r£$"
> > <fem...@nospam.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Sharron
> > For Shame
> > You're taking Dimwit's bait
>
> ! :-(  !
>
> Just testing...To make sure you're awake.
>
> --http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
> Personalised Desktop Computers

Whew!
Was afraid he was beginning to win ya over.............to the Dark Side

Ken wrote:
> On May 11, 2:58 pm, "Dr.Hal0nf1r£$"
> <fem...@nospam.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>> Ken wrote:
>>> On May 11, 11:36 am, "Dr.Hal0nf1r£$"
>>> <fem...@nospam.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Sharron
>>> For Shame
>>> You're taking Dimwit's bait
>>
>> ! :-( !
>>
>> Just testing...To make sure you're awake.
>>
>> --http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
>> Personalised Desktop Computers
>
> Whew!
> Was afraid he was beginning to win ya over.............to the Dark
> Side

I'll never join the asshole "Nevvie" from the moon orbiting the third planet 
at 750,000 miles in the star - system orbiting the nitrogen-fusion sun: If 
he goes on carrying that gun in his pants illegally the [police] force will 
be with him. (Hopefully)

-- 
http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
Personalised Desktop Computers

Dave in Lake Villa wrote:

> 
> Atheists :  Youre making your own bed . But youre not going to want to
> sleep in it later.  Abandon atheism for selfish gain, and come to the
> Creators camp.  Give God a chance with your life and y oull never be
> sorry.
> 

We'd love to Dave and we keep giving you every chance to convert us 
all...

As we have asked repeatedly, please present the evidence. Obviously, 
an attack on some aspect of science doesn't constitute evidence for 
your god, so we are looking for positive evidence indicating your 
god's existence.

regards, Ian