'If you are an atheist, what is its purpose as it relates to your own
life ? thank you. '

Freedom.

REPLY:   Personal freedom to live your life anyway you see fit ;
maximum autonomy ??

Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
> 'If you are an atheist, what is its purpose as it relates to your own
> life ? thank you. '
> 
> Freedom.
> 
> REPLY:   Personal freedom to live your life anyway you see fit ;
> maximum autonomy ??
> 
What do you suggest? Maybe freedom to snort crystal meth from a 
rent-boys arse prior to getting butt-fucked by him.

Dave in Lake Villa  wrote:
> 'If you are an atheist, what is its purpose as it relates to your own
> life ? thank you. '
> 
> Freedom.
> 
> REPLY:   Personal freedom to live your life anyway you see fit ;
> maximum autonomy ??
> 

No. Freedom from lies. Freedom from cruelty.  Freedom from fear. Freedom
from stupidity. Freedom from dogma. Freedom from unthinking obedience.

Humans are herd animals, there is never any evolutionary benefit from being
excluded from the herd, so there are always inate restrictions on behaviour. 
When a human exists without such restrictions they are rapidly sent to the
funny farm and hopefully excluded from breeding.  It's evolution in action.

-- 
Voltaire: Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities

On May 8, 5:21 am, Martin  wrote:
> Dave in Lake Villa wrote:> 'If you are an atheist, what is its purpose as it relates to your own
> > life ? thank you. '
>
> > Freedom.
>
> > REPLY:   Personal freedom to live your life anyway you see fit ;
> > maximum autonomy ??
>
> What do you suggest? Maybe freedom to snort crystal meth from a
> rent-boys arse prior to getting butt-fucked by him.

You mean like Rev Ted (imma fag) Haggard?

Former American evangelical preacher. Known as Pastor Ted to the
congregations he has served, he is the founder and former pastor of
the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado; a founder of the
Association of Life-Giving Churches; and was leader of the National
Association of Evangelicals

In November 2006, he resigned or was removed from all of his
leadership positions after he admitted patronizing prostitute Mike
Jones for homosexual sex and methamphetamines. Initially Haggard
denied even knowing Mike Jones, but as a media investigation proceeded
he acknowledged that some allegations, such as his purchase of
methamphetamine, were true. He later added "sexual immorality" to his
list of confessions

"Geoff Lane"  a écrit dans le message de news: 
6fvbf5-u53.ln1@buffy.sighup.org.uk...
> Dave in Lake Villa  wrote:
>> 'If you are an atheist, what is its purpose as it relates to your own
>> life ? thank you. '
>>
>> Freedom.
>>
>> REPLY:   Personal freedom to live your life anyway you see fit ;
>> maximum autonomy ??
>>
>
> No. Freedom from lies. Freedom from cruelty.  Freedom from fear. Freedom
> from stupidity. Freedom from dogma. Freedom from unthinking obedience.
>
> Humans are herd animals, there is never any evolutionary benefit from 
> being
> excluded from the herd, so there are always inate restrictions on 
> behaviour.
> When a human exists without such restrictions they are rapidly sent to the
> funny farm and hopefully excluded from breeding.  It's evolution in 
> action.

Exactly, there is simply no such thing as an independent morality dictated 
from 'beyond', as anyone with even the beginnings of an understanding of 
evolutionary psychology will appreciate. An evolutionary process over eons 
has resulted in our acquiring instinctive behavioural drives that favour the 
successful transference of our genes. We gradually learned that we could be 
more successful through cooperative behaviour, including displays of 
altruism despite the occasional resultant threat to oneself. This is because 
in the long play, reciprocal altruism has favoured not only our 'success' as 
a species as a whole, but also of our own kin..

Social behaviour has proven merits in survival terms - if you watch a
group of mammals in the wild, one demonstration of this is when the group is
threatened by a predator. The first member of the group (depending on the
species, but it's pretty common) will let out a warning call - which at
first sight is a bit stupid, as it is drawing the predator's attention
directly to itself. However the indirect benefit to self in terms of the
survival of the group is clear for social animals. Human cooperative
behaviour emerged in hunter-gatherer societies (*** and note that the groups
concerned were usually relatively small, numbering only in the hundreds). 
Anyway
why does such cooperation work? Game theory helps to explain this, and 
there's
a good expose on Wikipedia here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

Ok so what about morality in a world without gods. In a (very succinct) 
nutshell, a few examples ...

Trust - will develop where people mostly act in a reciprocally altruistic 
manner towards each other.

'Moral' outrage towards those that cheat the system? The sense of 
indignation, that cheaters should be punished, is an effective way to 
maintain the efficiency and continuity of a succesfully evolved system.

Pride in 'good' (altruistic) behaviour, guilt when the opposite is true? 
Reciprocal altruism provides the motivation here, because the onset of these 
feelings helps to ensure consistent cooperative behaviour and prevent 
nonconformist, possibly threatening behaviour.

Compassion, gratitude? The latter results in the desire to repay generosity, 
help from another. Hence the advantages of helping in the first place, the 
greater the need of the third party, the greater the IOU that remains 
outstanding when one day you and your kin may themselves be in need of 
support.

Obviously it's all a lot more complex, but I suspect even the above will go 
right over DILV's head. The bottom line is that without any g(G)od(s), 
without any (alleged) supreme external moral authority, we have a virtually 
identical sense of right and wrong, a moral compass that sets the standards 
by which we live and respect our fellows. In fact we go one better. Without 
an outside agency allegedly dictating the superiority of one set of moral 
rules over another, we have no inclination whatsover to consider one 
lifestyle to be superior to another simply based on whichever god you happen 
to believe in. We may however react strongly when we see discrimination 
against those who think differently, or the abuse of children through 
attempts at indoctrination at an impressionable age, or attempts to persuade 
through the use of fear and threats (eg hell), or efforts to ensure that 
religion continues to play a role in the affairs of state, or 
crusades/fatwah that place the lives of innocents at risk, or missionary 
activities that can result in division and conflict when forced upon 
communities in different cultures previously of a peaceful and united 
alternative belief system, or wars where the key dividing factor is the 
belief in a different god, or attempts to have fairy stories taught as 
fact....

If there is any useful definition of 'evil', it is summed up in the words 
and actions of fundamentalist religionists who believe they have a 
'god-given' right to impose their thinking on others. That is the kind of 
'freedom' atheists seek, from the 'thought ministries' of the conflicting 
religions and their desire to force their lifestyles on others, irrespective 
of whether they are atheist or of an alternative religion. DILV and his ilk, 
if such movements gain momentum and major influence, represent a serious 
threat not just to scientific progress but also to peaceful cohabitation 
with those of alternative cultures and belief sets, to controlling the 
spread of disease, to population control, to truth, to respect for others... 
to name but a few.

[*** One (personal) observation as to the importance of the small size of
the groups where this type of reciprocal altruism originally proved
effective for survival purposes. Evolved over eons, only very recently in
comparative terms have we tried to mould society towards larger scale
cooperation. It has proved difficult, and attempts to integrate different
groups into a homogenous whole have been frustratingly difficult to achieve.
In fact we have increasingly seen a trend towards fragmentation, with
smaller groups clinging on to a separate indentity within the whole,
deliberately isolating themselves mainly via racial, cultural, religious
differences. Apparently reciprocal altruism simply doesn't function so well
at a distance, with only tenuous and indirect benefits perceived.]

pga

On May 8, 7:21 am, Martin  wrote:
> Dave in Lake Villa wrote:> 'If you are an atheist, what is its purpose as it relates to your owne ? thank you. '
>
> > Freedom.
>
> > REPLY:   Personal freedom to live your life anyway you see fit ;
> > maximum autonomy ??
>
> What do you suggest? Maybe freedom to snort crystal meth from a
> rent-boys arse prior to getting butt-fucked by him.

REPLY: Looks like your freedom is talk anyway you want regardless of
whats right from wrong.

On May 8, 2:04 pm, Geoff Lane  wrote:
> Dave in Lake Villa  wrote:
>
> > 'If you are an atheist, what is its purpose as it relates to your own
> > life ? thank you. '
>
> > Freedom.
>
> > REPLY:   Personal freedom to live your life anyway you see fit ;
> > maximum autonomy ??
>
> No. Freedom from lies. Freedom from cruelty.  Freedom from fear. Freedom> from stupidity. Freedom from dogma. Freedom from unthinking obedience.
>
> Humans are herd animals, there is never any evolutionary benefit from being
> excluded from the herd, so there are always inate restrictions on behaviour.
> When a human exists without such restrictions they are rapidly sent to the> funny farm and hopefully excluded from breeding.  It's evolution in action.
>
> --
> Voltaire: Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities

REPLY:   Your description indicates personal autonomous living . Does
it also include entitlement ?

X-No-Archive: yes

 wrote in message 
news:3767352a-7380-4bd0-940a-6730c79afb09@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On May 8, 7:21 am, Martin  wrote:
> Dave in Lake Villa wrote:> 'If you are an atheist, what is its purpose as 
> it relates to your owne ? thank you. '
>
> > Freedom.
>
> > REPLY: Personal freedom to live your life anyway you see fit ;
> > maximum autonomy ??
>
> What do you suggest? Maybe freedom to snort crystal meth from a
> rent-boys arse prior to getting butt-fucked by him.

REPLY: Looks like your freedom is talk anyway you want regardless of
whats right from wrong.

I might say, that the whole notion of right and wrong, is so subjective as 
to be meaningless in any context ...
Religious fundamentalism is woefully inadeqate in distinguishing 
morality......
It can only subjectively describe and judge morality in no greater sense 
than religious dogma... it has no place in the lives of millions, perhaps 
billions.......


Mark

ps
dilv... do not take this as a response to your myopic rubbish........it 
isn't