There are articles in today's press that suggest Christianity in England
is in terminal decline which is of course hotly denied by church
sources.

" Almost half of all adults in the UK say they have no religious
affiliation, according to a new survey.   The decline in religious
belief is most apparent in the Church of England which now claims the
loyalties of just over a quarter of the population. 

The number of people who say they are members of the state religion has
dropped by 40% since 1983, according to a poll by the National Centre
for Social Research (NCSR). 

The British Social Attitudes poll of more than 3,000 people showed 44%
said they had no religious affiliation, up from 31% in 1983. "

As many schools have ceased religious instruction and parents have
stopped going to church it would seem inevitable that congregations will
continue to decline.   Perhaps we have progressed to the point where the
majority no longer needs the comfort blanket of religion.

-- 
********
David WG
********

On May 8, 1:17 am, David Wynne-Griffiths  wrote:
> There are articles in today's press that suggest Christianity in England
> is in terminal decline which is of course hotly denied by church
> sources.
>
> " Almost half of all adults in the UK say they have no religious
> affiliation, according to a new survey.   The decline in religious
> belief is most apparent in the Church of England which now claims the
> loyalties of just over a quarter of the population.
>
> The number of people who say they are members of the state religion has
> dropped by 40% since 1983, according to a poll by the National Centre
> for Social Research (NCSR).
>
> The British Social Attitudes poll of more than 3,000 people showed 44%
> said they had no religious affiliation, up from 31% in 1983. "
>
> As many schools have ceased religious instruction and parents have
> stopped going to church it would seem inevitable that congregations will
> continue to decline.   Perhaps we have progressed to the point where the> majority no longer needs the comfort blanket of religion.
>
> --
> ********
> David WG
> ********

REPLY: Ive read that only some 8% of the UK's population goes to
church.  Thats pretty sad . The UK can expect greater anarchy to
result from atheistic philosophies like Moral Relativism , or,  people
wanting to live as they like by pretending there is no personal
Theistic Creator .

On May 8, 6:59 am, "IlBeBa...@gmail.com"  wrote:
the usual crap

"David Wynne-Griffiths"  wrote in message 
news:31303030313034394822A91C16@zetnet.co.uk...
> There are articles in today's press that suggest Christianity in England
> is in terminal decline which is of course hotly denied by church
> sources.


The news these days tends, unfortunately in my opinion, to largely ignore 
what is being done in Parliament.

Yesterday, it might have been the day before, for example, Parliament passed 
the law which abolished the crime of blasphemy.  It was an interesting 
debate.  Almost every speaker was against the proposal, not all of them 
Conservative Roman Catholics, though all Conservative of course.  (I say of 
course because Conservatives by nature do not much like things to change) 
The law was last used, unsuccessfully, in the early 1970s in the case of 
Whitehouse v. the publication Gay News.  From memory I think that yes indeed 
it was that Whitehouse and the case was against some silly thing about Jesus 
being a bit AC/DC.  The last time the law was successfully used was in the 
twenties.  There was a recent case, about Jerry Springer the opera, which 
was never brought presumably because it would have been laughed out of 
court.

Anyway, I will only mention a single point made in the debate.  Every 
Sunday, more people go to church than go to football matches every Saturday.

Since statistics is my field, of course I doubted it, but it is at least 
possible that it is correct and if so it is certainly not reflected in media 
coverage which can cause one to be too hopeful about things.

David Wynne-Griffiths  wrote:
> There are articles in today's press that suggest Christianity in England
> is in terminal decline which is of course hotly denied by church
> sources.
> 
> " Almost half of all adults in the UK say they have no religious
> affiliation, according to a new survey.   The decline in religious
> belief is most apparent in the Church of England which now claims the
> loyalties of just over a quarter of the population. 
> 
> The number of people who say they are members of the state religion has
> dropped by 40% since 1983, according to a poll by the National Centre
> for Social Research (NCSR). 
> 
> The British Social Attitudes poll of more than 3,000 people showed 44%
> said they had no religious affiliation, up from 31% in 1983. "
> 
> As many schools have ceased religious instruction and parents have
> stopped going to church it would seem inevitable that congregations will
> continue to decline.   Perhaps we have progressed to the point where the
> majority no longer needs the comfort blanket of religion.

In the past couple of months, I've seen two people reading The God Delusion
on public transport and zero people reading the bible or koran.  It's been a
long time since I saw a fish stuck to car. The mormons don't call any more.

The times, they are 'a changing.


-- 
Atheism: Godless, not believing in the existence of gods.

On May 8, 8:12 pm, Geoff Lane  wrote:
> David Wynne-Griffiths  wrote:

>  It's been a
> long time since I saw a fish stuck to car.

You've been avoiding fast underwater vehicles perhaps?

I still haven't had my new router delivered yet; and the old one died
earlier this week, so I'm connecting via bluetooth and my mobile
phone; which is becoming expensive. Hopefully I'll get it delivered by
courier in the next 24 hours or less.

It's always the most inconvenient part that goes wrong isn't it? I had
a spare monitor, spare computer - with many spare components of all
kinds for both, spare phone line, you name it: What didn't I have
spare? The router, and the router died on me: Sod's Law in action!

I see the troll's upping its antics still: I must say that I've never
known anyone so determined to display their woeful ignorance as Dave
is!

On May 8, 5:19 pm, "Dr Hal0nfire$" 
wrote:

 I see the troll's upping its antics still: I must say that I've never
known anyone so determined to display their woeful ignorance as Dave
is!


We've both seen dumbfuck dave from lake evil preaching this same crap
for
years now in dozen's of different groups on the internet.
No one has EVER agreeded with him.
He makes enemies quicker than a fascist dressed in KKK robes at a rap
concert
Even other Xtians, who at first seem to accept his ideas, soon learn
they also have little or nothing in common with the ranting fool as he
lets them know that their view of religion is completely wrong

He's an asshole, always been one and always will be one

David Wynne-Griffiths  wrote:

>There are articles in today's press that suggest Christianity in England
>is in terminal decline which is of course hotly denied by church
>sources.
>
>" Almost half of all adults in the UK say they have no religious
>affiliation, according to a new survey.   The decline in religious
>belief is most apparent in the Church of England which now claims the
>loyalties of just over a quarter of the population. 
>
>The number of people who say they are members of the state religion has
>dropped by 40% since 1983, according to a poll by the National Centre
>for Social Research (NCSR). 
>
>The British Social Attitudes poll of more than 3,000 people showed 44%
>said they had no religious affiliation, up from 31% in 1983. "
>
>As many schools have ceased religious instruction and parents have
>stopped going to church it would seem inevitable that congregations will
>continue to decline.   Perhaps we have progressed to the point where the
>majority no longer needs the comfort blanket of religion.

I'm confused. I found the NCSR here...
http://www.natcen.ac.uk/

and the 2008 BSA report here...
http://www.natcen.ac.uk/natcen/pages/news_and_media_docs/BSA_24_report.pdf

but I can't see anything about religion in it.


-- 
Sleepalot   aa #1385

The message 
from Sleepalot  contains these words:

> I'm confused. I found the NCSR here...
> http://www.natcen.ac.uk/

> and the 2008 BSA report here...
> http://www.natcen.ac.uk/natcen/pages/news_and_media_docs/BSA_24_report.pdf

> but I can't see anything about religion in it

The survey was reported in the Times in a two page spread.

-- 
********
David WG
********

David Wynne-Griffiths  wrote:

> There are articles in today's press that suggest Christianity in England
> is in terminal decline which is of course hotly denied by church
> sources.
> 
> " Almost half of all adults in the UK say they have no religious
> affiliation, according to a new survey.   The decline in religious
> belief is most apparent in the Church of England which now claims the
> loyalties of just over a quarter of the population. 
> 
> The number of people who say they are members of the state religion has
> dropped by 40% since 1983, according to a poll by the National Centre
> for Social Research (NCSR). 
> 
> The British Social Attitudes poll of more than 3,000 people showed 44%
> said they had no religious affiliation, up from 31% in 1983. "
> 
> As many schools have ceased religious instruction and parents have
> stopped going to church it would seem inevitable that congregations will
> continue to decline.   Perhaps we have progressed to the point where the
> majority no longer needs the comfort blanket of religion.

We're seeing similar numbers in Australia, and I think it's fair to say
that general religiousness here is more in line with European trends
than American. Religious instruction in government schools was dropped
in the early 70s.

There's a worrying development though, in the number of parents sending
their children to private religious schools - not for religious reasons,
but because of a perception that the standard of education is better
than the state schools: smaller class sizes, better resources, etc.

Is there a similar trend towards private, church affiliated schooling in
the UK?
-- 
Jon

X-No-Archive: yes

"Jon Skinner"  wrote in message 
news:1igou9h.gqzbmqkrd67pN%jskinner@senet.com.au...
> David Wynne-Griffiths  wrote:

>> There are articles in today's press that suggest Christianity in England
>> is in terminal decline which is of course hotly denied by church
>> sources.

>> " Almost half of all adults in the UK say they have no religious
>> affiliation, according to a new survey.   The decline in religious
>> belief is most apparent in the Church of England which now claims the
>> loyalties of just over a quarter of the population.

>> The number of people who say they are members of the state religion has
>> dropped by 40% since 1983, according to a poll by the National Centre
>> for Social Research (NCSR).

>> The British Social Attitudes poll of more than 3,000 people showed 44%
>> said they had no religious affiliation, up from 31% in 1983. "

>> As many schools have ceased religious instruction and parents have
>> stopped going to church it would seem inevitable that congregations will
>> continue to decline.   Perhaps we have progressed to the point where the
>> majority no longer needs the comfort blanket of religion.

> We're seeing similar numbers in Australia, and I think it's fair to say
> that general religiousness here is more in line with European trends
> than American. Religious instruction in government schools was dropped
> in the early 70s.


> There's a worrying development though, in the number of parents sending
> their children to private religious schools - not for religious reasons,
> but because of a perception that the standard of education is better
> than the state schools: smaller class sizes, better resources, etc.

> Is there a similar trend towards private, church affiliated schooling in
> the UK?

Anecdotely, that may be so....   there isn't much in the way of figures for 
(somewhat secretive?) private schools.
Worryingly, we've had a complete turn around with state faith school issues 
by a government minister and, of course, there is state funding open to 
private faith schools.
Since 1995, 8 universities in the UK, including Oxford & Cambridge  have 
accepted  £233 million from Saudi and Muslim sources to fund islamic study 
centres... a direct  (succesful?) attempt to promote religious study in 
universities.
We have still the association of state schools and the church.  In 2006, 
around 13,000 total no religious character  schools and around 6700 
religious schools show over 50% of state schools  are exposed to religious 
agenda, perhaps even teachings.....!

http://www.culham.ac.uk/CS_stud/stats/2006/cs_stats_schools.html

In my view, these are the precise areas that could be challenged.  It just 
needs to 'break the cycle' of child into adult (religiously) who then 
support and promote religion when achieveing  positions of influence or 
power.
Witness our illustrious leaders, messrs Blair and Brown, both committed 
christians who have (Blair in particular) commented upon faith in political 
decision making during his reign....
I see no reason why elected representatives should have a religious bias and 
certainly feel their religious conviction (not just 'religion') should be 
declared when presenting for election.
Somehow, we have to break into this cosy religious dovetailing with 
democratic institutions of power and influence as well as the more sinister 
'establishment'.
The BBC on sunday might be a good start point.......quite how religion is 
allowed overt and fairly extensive airtime to promote *god*  baffles me.  I 
truly believe we should be extending similar airtime to (overt) atheism - as 
opposed to just 'not' religious.


Mark

Ken wrote:
> On May 8, 5:19 pm, "Dr Hal0nfire$" 
> wrote:
>
>  I see the troll's upping its antics still: I must say that I've never
> known anyone so determined to display their woeful ignorance as Dave
> is!
>
>
> We've both seen dumbfuck dave from lake evil preaching this same crap
> for
> years now in dozen's of different groups on the internet.
> No one has EVER agreeded with him.
> He makes enemies quicker than a fascist dressed in KKK robes at a rap
> concert
> Even other Xtians, who at first seem to accept his ideas, soon learn
> they also have little or nothing in common with the ranting fool as he
> lets them know that their view of religion is completely wrong
>
> He's an asshole, always been one and always will be one

-- 
http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
Personalised Desktop Computers

I'm back: New (Better ) router.

Right - Dimwit in Lake Evil - What exactly do you hope to acheive by 
trolling this group and showing everyone how utterly ignorant and 
brainwashed you are?

In article <WPudnW4odMLm1bnVnZ2dnUVZ8sOonZ2d@plusnet>,
 "mark"  wrote:
> 
> Witness our illustrious leaders, messrs Blair and Brown, both committed 
> christians who have (Blair in particular) commented upon faith in political 
> decision making during his reign....

It's my understanding, based on something Gordon Hudson once wrote in 
another place, that Gordon Brown is not himself a believing Christian 
but nonetheless, as the son of a Presbyterian minister, has a high 
regard for the values that Christianity imparts.

Alwyn

X-No-Archive: yes


"Alwyn"  wrote in message 
news:alwyn-696073.23013409052008@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> In article <WPudnW4odMLm1bnVnZ2dnUVZ8sOonZ2d@plusnet>,
> "mark"  wrote:
>>
>> Witness our illustrious leaders, messrs Blair and Brown, both committed
>> christians who have (Blair in particular) commented upon faith in 
>> political
>> decision making during his reign....
>
> It's my understanding, based on something Gordon Hudson once wrote in
> another place, that Gordon Brown is not himself a believing Christian
> but nonetheless, as the son of a Presbyterian minister, has a high
> regard for the values that Christianity imparts.
>
> Alwyn


Yes...
Does the word obfuscation impart comprehension...??
I doubt it..


Mark

Ken wrote:
> On May 8, 6:59 am, "IlBeBa...@gmail.com"  wrote:
> the usual crap


What is a dick-line anyway?

-- 
http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
Personalised Desktop Computers

mark  wrote:

> X-No-Archive: yes
> 
> "Jon Skinner"  wrote in message 

> > There's a worrying development though, in the number of parents sending
> > their children to private religious schools - not for religious reasons,
> > but because of a perception that the standard of education is better
> > than the state schools: smaller class sizes, better resources, etc.
> 
> > Is there a similar trend towards private, church affiliated schooling in
> > the UK?
> 
> Anecdotely, that may be so....   there isn't much in the way of figures for
> (somewhat secretive?) private schools.
> Worryingly, we've had a complete turn around with state faith school issues
> by a government minister and, of course, there is state funding open to
> private faith schools.

Yup, same here. They get tax breaks and subsidies as well. The teacher's
unions complain that there's a policy of "privitisation-by-stealth" -
that is: deliberately under-funding the public sector in order to make
the private schools more appealing to parents. If that is the case, it's
working.


> Since 1995, 8 universities in the UK, including Oxford & Cambridge  have
> accepted  £233 million from Saudi and Muslim sources to fund islamic study
> centres... a direct  (succesful?) attempt to promote religious study in
> universities.
> We have still the association of state schools and the church.  In 2006,
> around 13,000 total no religious character  schools and around 6700 
> religious schools show over 50% of state schools  are exposed to religious
> agenda, perhaps even teachings.....!

It wasn't really bothering me until I visited a private Catholic school
recently, and noticed all the signs and art work stuck up on the walls.
Lots of religious homilies, prayers, thoughts for today, and so on -
mostly done by the students. The word "madrasa" came to mind. 

This one school might not be typical of course, but the thought that a
lot of otherwise secular, non-religious parents were sending their kids
to this place in the hope of getting them a "better" education troubles
me.

> 
> http://www.culham.ac.uk/CS_stud/stats/2006/cs_stats_schools.html
> 
> In my view, these are the precise areas that could be challenged.  It just
> needs to 'break the cycle' of child into adult (religiously) who then
> support and promote religion when achieveing  positions of influence or
> power.
> Witness our illustrious leaders, messrs Blair and Brown, both committed
> christians who have (Blair in particular) commented upon faith in political
> decision making during his reign....
> I see no reason why elected representatives should have a religious bias and
> certainly feel their religious conviction (not just 'religion') should be
> declared when presenting for election.
> Somehow, we have to break into this cosy religious dovetailing with 
> democratic institutions of power and influence as well as the more sinister
> 'establishment'.
> The BBC on sunday might be a good start point.......quite how religion is
> allowed overt and fairly extensive airtime to promote *god*  baffles me.  I
> truly believe we should be extending similar airtime to (overt) atheism - as
> opposed to just 'not' religious.

The ABC has a Sunday night religion slot too. Though, to their credit,
this week they're screening Richard Dawkins' series on new age piffle.
They've previously shown his Root of all Evil and several other good
docos. (But then, the ABC is a hotbed of godless lefty-ism - according
to our conservative commentators.)

-- 
Jon