Salvation means in the general sense being saved from danger, loss or harm.
Much of Christianity seems to revolve round salvation.  

What exactly are we to be saved from?   If it is only hell then I don't
suppose too many people will be much concerned as most have moved on
from the primitive carrot and stick of the imaginary heaven and hell.

Where does the idea come from that we need salvation?   Is it the hoary
old myth of the apple and the serpent in the Garden of Eden?  because
again not too many people take such a fairy story seriously.   In fact
it is surprising that anyone does!

The original Sumerian story was more entertaining and included the
naughty Lilith as Adam's first wife.

-- 
********
David WG
********

On May 5, 7:29 am, David Wynne-Griffiths  wrote:
> Salvation means in the general sense being saved from danger, loss or harm> Much of Christianity seems to revolve round salvation.  
>
> What exactly are we to be saved from?   If it is only hell then I don't
> suppose too many people will be much concerned as most have moved on
> from the primitive carrot and stick of the imaginary heaven and hell.
>
> Where does the idea come from that we need salvation?   Is it the hoary
> old myth of the apple and the serpent in the Garden of Eden?  because
> again not too many people take such a fairy story seriously.   In fact
> it is surprising that anyone does!
>
> The original Sumerian story was more entertaining and included the
> nod aughty Lilith as Adam's first wife.
> ,
> --
> ********
> David WG
> ********

REPLY: More misconcdeptions because you dont understand. Salvation is
to be free and forgiven from ones personal sins which are against God
himself.  Sure the Chritian Faith is centered around salvation ,
because it is common to all of mankind upon a sincere honest
introspection of oneself.  Heaven and Hell were taught by Jesus Christ
himself without apology, and it was not used as a 'scare tactic' like
atheists assert it was.  Hell is an eternal crime for rejecting Gods
plan of love toward mankind in having thier sins forgiven free of
charge by Christ . Its human pride that sends one to Hell . If you
dont wan t  closeness and to grow in the knowledge of God so you can
live as you like for a few short earthly years , then God simply
grants your desire but forever.  You choose, and he grants.  Have you
bothered to look inside yourself and discover a dark side to your
personality ?  Or, are you willing to pretend youre a 'good' person ?

On May 5, 5:29 am, David Wynne-Griffiths  wrote:
> Salvation means in the general sense being saved from danger, loss or harm> Much of Christianity seems to revolve round salvation.  
>
> What exactly are we to be saved from?   If it is only hell then I don't
> suppose too many people will be much concerned as most have moved on
> from the primitive carrot and stick of the imaginary heaven and hell.
>
> Where does the idea come from that we need salvation?   Is it the hoary
> old myth of the apple and the serpent in the Garden of Eden?  because
> again not too many people take such a fairy story seriously.   In fact
> it is surprising that anyone does!
>
> The original Sumerian story was more entertaining and included the
> naughty Lilith as Adam's first wife.
>
> --
> ********
> David WG
> ********

Xtians seem to want to save themselves (and anyone with earshot) from
any enjoyment of the here and now, instead thinking along the lines
of: "Gee, I can't wait to die because then I'll have everything I
didn't achieve in real life"
Somehow the twisted logic of that statement is way beyond any rational
understanding, as Xtians (or any other religion) have never provided
even one iota of provable evidence that any said afterlife exists

"David Wynne-Griffiths"  wrote

> What exactly are we to be saved from?   If it is only hell then I don't
> suppose too many people will be much concerned as most have moved on
> from the primitive carrot and stick of the imaginary heaven and hell.

That may apply to non-Christians but they still believe in the heaven and 
hell rubbish. They want to be saved from a life of sin as well as getting 
the eternal life thing ofter death. (Pretty greedy !?)

> Where does the idea come from that we need salvation?   Is it the hoary
> old myth of the apple and the serpent in the Garden of Eden?  because
> again not too many people take such a fairy story seriously.   In fact
> it is surprising that anyone does!

Christianity or Judaism is hardly the first religion. The old wrath of God 
thing goes way back. Surely you're familiar with Prometheus, for example?

> The original Sumerian story was more entertaining and included the
> naughty Lilith as Adam's first wife.

Don't think I've read that. Is it availble online ?

Steve M

The message <UcOdnZ9J18wo4YLVRVnytAA@plusnet>
from "Steve Marshall"  contains these words:

> Christianity or Judaism is hardly the first religion. The old wrath of God 
> thing goes way back. Surely you're familiar with Prometheus, for example?

Sure thing! but the ridiculous doctrine of original sin is based on the
fairy story of the Garden of Eden, the apple and the serpent

> > The original Sumerian story was more entertaining and included the
> > naughty Lilith as Adam's first wife.

> Don't think I've read that. Is it availble online ?

Google Lilith and you will find plenty of material!

-- 
********
David WG
********

On May 5, 4:58 pm, David Wynne-Griffiths  wrote:
> The message <UcOdnZ9J18wo4YLVRVnytAA@plusnet>
> from "Steve Marshall"  contains these words:
>
> > Christianity or Judaism is hardly the first religion. The old wrath of God
> > thing goes way back. Surely you're familiar with Prometheus, for example> Sure thing! but the ridiculous doctrine of original sin is based on the
> fairy story of the Garden of Eden, the apple and the serpent
>
> > > The original Sumerian story was more entertaining and included the
> > > naughty Lilith as Adam's first wife.
> > Don't think I've read that. Is it availble online ?
>
> Google Lilith and you will find plenty of material!
>
> --
> ********
> David WG
> ********

REPLY:  Dont be willfully ignorant David ;  the Garden of Eden was in
Iraq (today) . And you should believe in the book of Genesis since we
have Archeological Evidence going all the way back to at least Genesis
Chapter 11.  In fact, the Ebla Tablets takes us all the way back to
Creation  !    You see, if you would start with AN OPEN MIND instead
of starting with being a willful Critic for the sake of your own
personal ulterior motive/philosophical bias...then youd be brought up
to speed on what the truth really is concerning the Bible.  But as an
atheist, you dont want The Bible to be true , nor the personal
Creator.  How come you want to be an atheist David ?

"David Wynne-Griffiths"  wrote

> Sure thing! but the ridiculous doctrine of original sin is based on the
> fairy story of the Garden of Eden, the apple and the serpent

The thing that gets me about that story is that it shows how God failed and 
how man has been at odds with God since the beginning. Pretty flawed tale, 
if you ask me - but then most myths are somewhat lacking.

Steve M

Adapting or adopting a myth from an earlier mythology is a common
practice in religions.  The Ebla tablets reveal  that the creation
myth used in Genesis was lifted from the Sumerian mythology.

There is a creation tablet in Ebla that is as close to the Creation
Account in Genesis, Chapter I as any that has ever been discovered:

“There was no heaven, Lugo formed it.  There was no earth, Lugo formed
it.  There was no sun, Lugo formed it.  There was no moon, Lugo formed
it.”  (Lugo means “the big one,” “the great one”)."

DavidWG

I did once meet a fundie on the internet who held that the first people
were actually called Adam and Eve and that the story of the Garden of
Eden was all true.   He also thought that Adam was made from dirt and
Eve from one of his ribs.  It is difficult to comprehend the level of
utter stupidity which prevents people from realising that they are just
fairy tales but, of course, we have such a person posting his rubbish
here!

This person on the internet told me about the power of prayer and how
when his car got stuck in a snow drift he prayed and was eventually able
to get out.  He rather spoilt it by going on to say that when his deep
freeze broke down he prayed and someone gave him their old one.   

It is rather like gamblers telling you about their winnings but they
never tell you about all the horses that lost.  Those who boast about
the munificence of their god do not tell you about all the many more
unanswered prayers.

-- 
********
David WG
********

On May 7, 7:43 am, David Wynne-Griffiths  wrote:
> I did once meet a fundie on the internet who held that the first people
> were actually called Adam and Eve and that the story of the Garden of
> Eden was all true.   He also thought that Adam was made from dirt and
> Eve from one of his ribs.  It is difficult to comprehend the level of
> utter stupidity which prevents people from realising that they are just
> fairy tales but, of course, we have such a person posting his rubbish
> here!
>
> This person on the internet told me about the power of prayer and how
> when his car got stuck in a snow drift he prayed and was eventually able
> to get out.  He rather spoilt it by going on to say that when his deep
> freeze broke down he prayed and someone gave him their old one.  
>
> It is rather like gamblers telling you about their winnings but they
> never tell you about all the horses that lost.  Those who boast about
> the munificence of their god do not tell you about all the many more
> unanswered prayers.
>
> --
> ********
> David WG
> ********

I can state that I haven't prayed for anything during my entire adult
life, if not going back another 10 years from adulthood
In fact, there's more proof that a Santa Claus MUST exist (cause he
delivers on your wishes) compared to some imaginary sky fairy