Greetings as the weekend is upon us once again.  Each weekend , we
have a look at a popular atheist misconception (P.A.M). ...only this
time, we shall have a look at a popular athiest CONCEPTION ;  or, what
an atheist has to believe by default if he pretends a personal
intelligent Creator isnt required.  The purpose of these regular
Treatises are for the real true skeptic  to consider the many pitfalls
of atheism, and not for the NG regulars who rally support from one
another and can only come up with acts of defamation .... which is
certainly no rebuttal.

Atheism , since it doesnt believe in a personal Creator who willed the
Universe into existence from nothing,  believes that 'Nothing'
allowed the universe to come into existence from nothing.  This is
what they posit as a 'Natural Cause' .  It would be a stretch of the
imagination for 'Nothing'  to give us a universe if it just consisted
of rocks, dirt, hydrogen gas, et al....as left over from 'an
accidental Big Bang'....but to force oneself to believe that this same
'Nothing'  also gave us over 250 razor edge precise Physics Constants
which must be ALL present and which must ALL collaboratively work with
each other for the distinct purpose of earth being here so we could
live on it....it wayyyyy beyond a stretch of the imagination....its a
sure stretch of lunacy.

So, we must ask ourselves what is behind the motive for the atheist to
embrace this sort of foolishness ?  Even a child of 6 knows that his
Toys didnt just pop into existence by nothing , yet,  a universe
millions of times more complex than a kids Toy can and we are supposed
to accept THAT !?   The motive behind every atheist is one of a
personal nature , which embraces lunacy.  Having been an alleged
atheist for over 10 years, I quite aware of the psychology behind this
front .  It is centered around pride and springboards into entitlement
and personal freedom to make lifestyle choices ;  one NG atheist in a
rather frank moment declared :" I dont want ANYONE telling me how to
live my life !"  .  The hostility that arises from the atheist camp
then, is,  from anyone or anything that threatens this modus
operandi .  Atheism is certainly not based on 'lack of evidence'  to
believe..rather...its based on a Will to never FOLLOW or move closer
in relationship to the personal Creator . Not even to examine the
evidence. Ergo, an atheist asserting 'Id beleive if only there were
evidence'  is nothing more than a convienent smokescreen so he can
hang onto his pride, entitlement, arrogance, and rebellion. ----
things which the Bible precisely says about such willful Rejectors so
they can have their own way .

The challenge to honest Skeptics, is to remain honest and truthful to
yourself instead of allowing the dictates of your Will for fun and
total autonomous living  to rule your heart.  Many can do this, but
many cant because the lure of our immoral Culture is just to
appealing.

As always,  my email inbox is always available to those who are
serious Seeker/Skeptics on this most vital issue.

Move closer to the God/Creator of this Universe, and he will reveal
more and more of himself to you..for, that is his promise.  Reject him
for fun times which you know are wrong,  and he will grant distance if
you want that .

Regards, Dave

(-)

wrote in message 
news:0e5f089b-74f3-4481-82eb-1d28b65f6e22@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

> Atheism , since it doesnt believe in a personal Creator who willed the
> Universe into existence from nothing,  believes that 'Nothing'
> allowed the universe to come into existence from nothing.

Which is exactly what Christianity believes - that God just existed with 
nothing coming before him.

Hoist by your own petard.

Ken wrote:
> (-)


He says that all regulars do is defame him: He doesn't realise that he does 
that himself with his lies, misquotes, lack of education, and fruitless 
imagination - An example of this is his statement that Atheists believe that 
nothing caused the universe to come into existance: This is simply not true. 
Although nobody knows *exactly* how the universe came into existance; there 
are many rational scientific theories that go a long way toward suggesting 
how it might have done so; all of which make a lot more sense than his 
baseless supposition that his god "willed it into existance"; aka 
"goddidit".

He states that Atheism is a willed decision not to have a personal 
relatyionship with his "Creator"; yet he to this day has given absolutely no 
shred of evidence whatsoever that this "Creator" even exists anywhere other 
than in his tiny mind. he states that an Atheist will only believe if there 
is evidence: Quite frankly that is a logical and sensible way of thinking 
for anyone, not just Atheists. DiLV obviously believes without evidence; yet 
he refuses to believe any Pagan philosophy, which does in fact have some 
evidence of a sort if one chooses to look for it, yet he has asked me for 
soliod concrete scientific evidence of it in the past before he would 
believe any of it. I find it strange that he will believe in Christianity 
without any evidence whatsoever rather than Paganism with some evidence if 
one chooses to look, or even Atheism with some solid virtually evidence in 
certain areas such as evolution. it shows the hypocrisy and the deranged 
thinking of this troll.

He then has the incredulity, bearing in mind his blatant rank dishonesty, to 
speak of honesty and truth: I ask you..! The fool is a waste of life energy, 
air, space, and all other resources.





-- 
http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
- Personalised Desktop Computers

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:35:03 -0700 (PDT), "IlBeBauck@gmail.com"
 wrote:

>Greetings as the weekend is upon us once again.  Each weekend , we
>have a look at a popular atheist misconception (P.A.M). ...only this
>time, we shall have a look at a popular athiest CONCEPTION ;  or, what
>an atheist has to believe by default if he pretends a personal
>intelligent Creator isnt required.  The purpose of these regular
>Treatises are for the real true skeptic  to consider the many pitfalls
>of atheism, and not for the NG regulars who rally support from one
>another and can only come up with acts of defamation .... which is
>certainly no rebuttal.

Fuck off and die, liar.

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:07:14 +0100, "Gordon Hudson"
 wrote:

>
> wrote in message 
>news:0e5f089b-74f3-4481-82eb-1d28b65f6e22@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Atheism , since it doesnt believe in a personal Creator who willed the
>> Universe into existence from nothing,  believes that 'Nothing'
>> allowed the universe to come into existence from nothing.
>
>Which is exactly what Christianity believes - that God just existed with 
>nothing coming before him.
>
>Hoist by your own petard.

Atheists don't even give what he lied about, a thought - let alone
believe that.

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:21:42 +0100, "Dr.Hal0nf1r£$"
<femail@nospam.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

>Ken wrote:
>> (-)
>
>
>He says that all regulars do is defame him: He doesn't realise that he does 
>that himself with his lies, misquotes, lack of education, and fruitless 
>imagination - An example of this is his statement that Atheists believe that 
>nothing caused the universe to come into existance: This is simply not true. 
>Although nobody knows *exactly* how the universe came into existance; there 
>are many rational scientific theories that go a long way toward suggesting 
>how it might have done so; all of which make a lot more sense than his 
>baseless supposition that his god "willed it into existance"; aka 
>"goddidit".

More importantly, educated Christians accept even origins science.
They believe that's _how_ it happened. Which "god did it" doesn't
bother to address. 

It's like these idiots saying a dropped object doesn't fall, god makes
it happen.

IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:

>'  Atheism -- the Faith in NOTHING'

Please try and get it right:  'Religion (any one will do) -- the Faith
in any number of crutches.'

'Atheism -- the Faith (i.e. confidence) in one's self.'

--
Robbie

"Gordon Hudson"  wrote

> Which is exactly what Christianity believes - that God just existed with 
> nothing coming before him.

Where?

Steve M

wrote gibberish

All the misconceptions are yours. You have again not represented a true 
scenario and have not represented atheism as it is - only as you wish to see 
it .

Steve M

Dr.Hal0nf1r£$ wrote:

> 
> He then has the incredulity, bearing in mind his blatant rank dishonesty, to 
> speak of honesty and truth: I ask you..! The fool is a waste of life energy, 
> air, space, and all other resources.

No he isn't!

Just reading his nonsense makes me grateful that I'm not infected 
with this delusional stupidity!

He's doing more to promote atheism than the rest of us could achieve 
put together.

regards, Ian

X-No-Archive: yes

"Gordon Hudson"  wrote in message 
news:67ekuhF2o43p4U1@mid.individual.net...
>
>  wrote in message 
> news:0e5f089b-74f3-4481-82eb-1d28b65f6e22@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Atheism , since it doesnt believe in a personal Creator who willed the
>> Universe into existence from nothing,  believes that 'Nothing'
>> allowed the universe to come into existence from nothing.
>
> Which is exactly what Christianity believes - that God just existed with 
> nothing coming before him.
>
> Hoist by your own petard.

..but he can't just exist.  If he exists then someone or something created 
him.....
This is the circular argument that christians used to try and destroy the 
*big bang* theory....... that something came before the nothing.
Something had to exist before nothing existed that created the big bang.
If nothing existed..then god did not.
If something existed then god was created.



Mark

On Apr 25, 3:19 pm, "mark"  wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> "Gordon Hudson"  wrote in message
>
> news:67ekuhF2o43p4U1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
> >  wrote in message
> >news:0e5f089b-74f3-4481-82eb-1d28b65f6e22@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...> >> Atheism , since it doesnt believe in a personal Creator who willed the
> >> Universe into existence from nothing,  believes that 'Nothing'
> >> allowed the universe to come into existence from nothing.
>
> > Which is exactly what Christianity believes - that God just existed with> > nothing coming before him.
>
> > Hoist by your own petard.
>
> ..but he can't just exist.  If he exists then someone or something created
> him.....
> This is the circular argument that christians used to try and destroy the
> *big bang* theory....... that something came before the nothing.
> Something had to exist before nothing existed that created the big bang.
> If nothing existed..then god did not.
> If something existed then god was created.
>
> Mark

REPLY:   Thanks for all of your defamation replies, but,  the OP was
meant for honest seekers and skeptics.  Thank you anyway.

On Apr 25, 4:07 pm, A Spamming Fuckwadd@gmail.com wrote: nothing worth
reading or replying to, but here's an honest comment: Fuck You Very
Much

In article ,
 "mark"  wrote:

> X-No-Archive: yes
> 
> "Gordon Hudson"  wrote in message 
> news:67ekuhF2o43p4U1@mid.individual.net...
> >
> >  wrote in message 
> > news:0e5f089b-74f3-4481-82eb-1d28b65f6e22@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >> Atheism , since it doesnt believe in a personal Creator who willed the
> >> Universe into existence from nothing,  believes that 'Nothing'
> >> allowed the universe to come into existence from nothing.
> >
> > Which is exactly what Christianity believes - that God just existed with 
> > nothing coming before him.
> >
> > Hoist by your own petard.
> 
> ..but he can't just exist.  If he exists then someone or something created 
> him.....
> This is the circular argument that christians used to try and destroy the 
> *big bang* theory....... that something came before the nothing.
> Something had to exist before nothing existed that created the big bang.
> If nothing existed..then god did not.
> If something existed then god was created.

Well no, according to Xian doctrine, God stands outside the universe and 
has no beginning or end. According to the Kalam Cosmological Argument, 
only that which has a beginning in time needs a cause.

So, according to this view, God, who has always been, at some point 
created the universe out of nothing and is the ultimate cause of all 
that has a beggining in time.

It seems to me that the biggest casualty here is the Xian notion of 
human free will independent of God, without which we could not sin. God 
then is responsible for all that exists in time except human sin, but 
how could that be?

In article 
,
 "IlBeBauck@gmail.com"  wrote:

> On Apr 25, 3:19 pm, "mark"  wrote:
> > X-No-Archive: yes
> >
> > "Gordon Hudson"  wrote in message
> >
> > news:67ekuhF2o43p4U1@mid.individual.net...
> >
> >
> >
> > >  wrote in message
> > >news:0e5f089b-74f3-4481-82eb-1d28b65f6e22@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > >> Atheism , since it doesnt believe in a personal Creator who willed the
> > >> Universe into existence from nothing,  believes that 'Nothing'
> > >> allowed the universe to come into existence from nothing.
> >
> > > Which is exactly what Christianity believes - that God just existed with
> > > nothing coming before him.
> >
> > > Hoist by your own petard.
> >
> > ..but he can't just exist.  If he exists then someone or something created
> > him.....
> > This is the circular argument that christians used to try and destroy the
> > *big bang* theory....... that something came before the nothing.
> > Something had to exist before nothing existed that created the big bang.
> > If nothing existed..then god did not.
> > If something existed then god was created.
> >
> > Mark
> 
> REPLY:   Thanks for all of your defamation replies, but,  the OP was
> meant for honest seekers and skeptics.  Thank you anyway.

Mark was making an interesting point. Are you really unable to see the 
difference between defamation and reasoned argument?

David A. wrote:

>>> Hoist by your own petard.
>> ..but he can't just exist.  If he exists then someone or something created 
>> him.....
>> This is the circular argument that christians used to try and destroy the 
>> *big bang* theory....... that something came before the nothing.
>> Something had to exist before nothing existed that created the big bang.
>> If nothing existed..then god did not.
>> If something existed then god was created.
> 
> Well no, according to Xian doctrine, God stands outside the universe and 
> has no beginning or end.

So the same reasoning can be used for the universe itself then.

The singularity comes from a big crunch as the previous universe 
collapses in on itself and the next one is formed.

This is an elegant idea and the maths is very interesting. Each 
incidence of a universe would be bigger than the last (less matter, 
more energy). Each universe would collapse in on itself and create 
the next, with the life of each increasing until it reaches near 
equilibrium.

This explains how we have the ideal conditions for life - as each 
manifestation gets progressively larger and longer, at least one 
(possibly more than one) will have the right basics for life.

This scenario is described by Prof John Barrow in "The Origin of the 
Universe" back on 1994.

So, in the quest for our understanding of the origins, the giant sky 
fairy hypothesis contributes absolutely nothing, or is already 
discredited as we have shown in our understanding of the origins of 
human life.

regards, Ian

On Apr 25, 4:40 pm, "David A."  wrote:

> Well no, according to Xian doctrine, God stands outside the universe and
> has no beginning or end. According to the Kalam Cosmological Argument,
> only that which has a beginning in time needs a cause.
>
> So, according to this view, God, who has always been, at some point
> created the universe out of nothing and is the ultimate cause of all
> that has a beggining in time.


None of which makes absolutely any sense (scientific or otherwise) at
all to any sentient rational human being, but if you're delusional,
"goditit" will answer all their "questions"

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 06:48:25 -0700 (PDT), Ken 
wrote:

>On Apr 25, 4:40 pm, "David A."  wrote:
>
>> Well no, according to Xian doctrine, God stands outside the universe and
>> has no beginning or end. According to the Kalam Cosmological Argument,
>> only that which has a beginning in time needs a cause.
>>
>> So, according to this view, God, who has always been, at some point
>> created the universe out of nothing and is the ultimate cause of all
>> that has a beggining in time.
>
>
>None of which makes absolutely any sense (scientific or otherwise) at
>all to any sentient rational human being, but if you're delusional,
>"goditit" will answer all their "questions"

If these idiots actually had any evidence,  they would not need
arguments which amount to nothing more than "Spot the fallacy"
intellectual exercises.

On Apr 25, 6:40 pm, "David A."  wrote:
> In article ,
>
>
>
>
>
>  "mark"  wrote:
> > X-No-Archive: yes
>
> > "Gordon Hudson"  wrote in message
> >news:67ekuhF2o43p4U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > >  wrote in message
> > >news:0e5f089b-74f3-4481-82eb-1d28b65f6e22@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com.> > >> Atheism , since it doesnt believe in a personal Creator who willed the
> > >> Universe into existence from nothing,  believes that 'Nothing'
> > >> allowed the universe to come into existence from nothing.
>
> > > Which is exactly what Christianity believes - that God just existed with
> > > nothing coming before him.
>
> > > Hoist by your own petard.
>
> > ..but he can't just exist.  If he exists then someone or something created
> > him.....
> > This is the circular argument that christians used to try and destroy the
> > *big bang* theory....... that something came before the nothing.
> > Something had to exist before nothing existed that created the big bang.> > If nothing existed..then god did not.
> > If something existed then god was created.
>
> Well no, according to Xian doctrine, God stands outside the universe and
> has no beginning or end. According to the Kalam Cosmological Argument,
> only that which has a beginning in time needs a cause.
>
> So, according to this view, God, who has always been, at some point
> created the universe out of nothing and is the ultimate cause of all
> that has a beggining in time.
>
> It seems to me that the biggest casualty here is the Xian notion of
> human free will independent of God, without which we could not sin. God
> then is responsible for all that exists in time except human sin, but
> how could that be?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

REPLY:  Because initially, God made the World WITHOUT any sin ;  it
was mankind that allowed sin to enter it by freewill choice to sin or
not.  We would have been better off if God had made us like Robots,
but, making someone into a Robot isnt Love ;  if youre a parent , you
know you dont bash your children into making them robotic to do whats
right --- you hope they will based on thier own choosing.
Fortunately, God in his love came up with a plan that would restore
what sinful Mankind had done : Jesus Christ , the Son of God at the
cross.  All you have to do now, is 'recieve Christ' and his finished
work on the cross to cover your many many sins. I did and I hope you
will.  Living the atheist life is a big pretend game for you know,
instrinsically and thru creation, that God is a very real Being and a
personal one at that.  Dont run from him any longer -- move closer to
him and your life will be changed as well as your eternal residence.

On Apr 26, 7:10 am, Spamming Fuckwadd Dimwit Dave Wrote More Unwanted
BULLCRAP

On 4/25/08 7:47 PM, in article
da014b1983-17DC52.00471326042008@text.news.virginmedia.com, "David A."
 wrote:

> In article 
> ,
>  "IlBeBauck@gmail.com"  wrote:
> 
>> On Apr 25, 3:19 pm, "mark"  wrote:
>>> X-No-Archive: yes
>>> 
>>> "Gordon Hudson"  wrote in message
>>> 
>>> news:67ekuhF2o43p4U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>  wrote in message
>>>> news:0e5f089b-74f3-4481-82eb-1d28b65f6e22@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>> 
>>>>> Atheism , since it doesnt believe in a personal Creator who willed the
>>>>> Universe into existence from nothing,  believes that 'Nothing'
>>>>> allowed the universe to come into existence from nothing.
>>> 
>>>> Which is exactly what Christianity believes - that God just existed with
>>>> nothing coming before him.
>>> 
>>>> Hoist by your own petard.
>>> 
>>> ..but he can't just exist.  If he exists then someone or something created
>>> him.....
>>> This is the circular argument that christians used to try and destroy the
>>> *big bang* theory....... that something came before the nothing.
>>> Something had to exist before nothing existed that created the big bang.
>>> If nothing existed..then god did not.
>>> If something existed then god was created.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>> 
>> REPLY:   Thanks for all of your defamation replies, but,  the OP was
>> meant for honest seekers and skeptics.  Thank you anyway.
> 
> Mark was making an interesting point. Are you really unable to see the
> difference between defamation and reasoned argument?


  He's unable to see anything...and the most delicious thing is that lurkers
see through the lies he posts...he's personally responsible for many
converts to atheism.....he's the best anti-jesus poster boy here...because
we've,(easily),turned him into that, and he has no way to fight it...

"You're only as big as what'll make you mad"
Bad day at Black Rock

The message <C438B267.8302%tt@noburn.net>
from TT  contains these words:

>  He's unable to see anything...and the most delicious thing is that lurkers
> see through the lies he posts...he's personally responsible for many
> converts to atheism.....he's the best anti-jesus poster boy here...because
> we've,(easily),turned him into that, and he has no way to fight it...

It works a treat!  As you say he obviously does not realise it but the
more he posts the more people become atheists or agnostics as a result.

-- 
********
David WG
********

IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:

>>
>> It seems to me that the biggest casualty here is the Xian notion of
>> human free will independent of God, without which we could not sin. God
>> then is responsible for all that exists in time except human sin, but
>> how could that be?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> REPLY:  Because initially, God made the World WITHOUT any sin ;  it
> was mankind that allowed sin to enter it by freewill choice to sin or
> not.

Strange, isn't it, that he makes these claims based on his 
superstitious mythology with no supporting evidence whatsoever.

regards, Ian

Ian Smith wrote:
> IlBeBauck@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that the biggest casualty here is the Xian notion of
>>> human free will independent of God, without which we could not sin.
>>> God then is responsible for all that exists in time except human
>>> sin, but how could that be?- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> REPLY:  Because initially, God made the World WITHOUT any sin ;  it
>> was mankind that allowed sin to enter it by freewill choice to sin or
>> not.
>
> Strange, isn't it, that he makes these claims based on his
> superstitious mythology with no supporting evidence whatsoever.
>
> regards, Ian

Actually in truth it's become pretty bog-standard practice for Dave; but 
then again if there is no evidence in the first place then it's not possible 
to produce any.

-- 
http://www.kustomkomputa.co.uk
- Personalised Desktop Computers