The Associates
Blancmange
Yazoo (what a voice)
Echo & The Bunnymen


-- 
There is no excellent beauty that hath not 
some strangeness in the proportion.

In article <1g6pt947hxdwt.1gmtlu0ajv5xt$.dlg@40tude.net>, 
watercress@spamcop.org says...
>
> The Associates

What a voice. Next up on the stereo will be Fourth Drawer Down. I've been 
an addict since the first single.

> Blancmange

Never really got to me. Excellent, but not a favourite.

> Yazoo (what a voice)

Great pop songs. I'd have liked them to have more "edge" though, they 
should have been capable of it.

> Echo & The Bunnymen

Oh yes indeedy. Smashing people too.

Today I have mostly been listening to Soul Coughing, Bloc Party and Eddie 
Floyd.

-- 
eric
Live fast, die only if strictly necessary.

Bing Trotsky  writes:

> Today I have mostly been listening to Soul Coughing, Bloc Party and
> Eddie Floyd.

Duke Ellington, John Martyn, and Parliament, here.

-- 
another screw, another turn

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:08:48 +0100, August West  wrote:

>Bing Trotsky  writes:
>
>> Today I have mostly been listening to Soul Coughing, Bloc Party and
>> Eddie Floyd.
>
>Duke Ellington, John Martyn, and Parliament, here.

Nigel Kennedy, Elgar's Violin Concerto and
Jacqueline Du Pre, Elgar's Cello Concerto.

On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 17:14:10 +0100, Bing Trotsky wrote:

> Today I have mostly been listening to Soul Coughing,

Hadn't heard them before - just listened to Circles - rather good -
reminiscent of They Might Be Giants

> Bloc Party

Tried Helicopter - not quite - sound rather like they're trying to be
Helmet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUqyfXguY90

Page Hamilton is a seriously good guitarist - did an album of duets with
Caspar Brotzmann... which led me to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFDwUlB-Y_I

FM Einheit is a true radical genius.

> and Eddie Floyd.

Fun. Must watch The Blues Brothers again.


-- 
I have enough money to last me the rest of my life, unless I buy
something.

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:43:20 +0100, JAF wrote:

> Nigel Kennedy, Elgar's Violin Concerto and
> Jacqueline Du Pre, Elgar's Cello Concerto.

I suddenly have a very strong urge to listen to Ralph Vaughan Williams -
The Lark Ascending.


-- 
Yesterday's papers telling yesterday's news

Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:

> On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:43:20 +0100, JAF wrote:
>
>> Nigel Kennedy, Elgar's Violin Concerto and
>> Jacqueline Du Pre, Elgar's Cello Concerto.
>
> I suddenly have a very strong urge to listen to Ralph Vaughan Williams -
> The Lark Ascending.

You want Classic FM - they play it every other hour.  In between the
adverts for stair lifts, funeral paymane plans, and capital release
cons.

-- 
more than this I will not ask

On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 19:53:12 +0100, Hot Badger Deluxe
 wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:43:20 +0100, JAF wrote:
>
>> Nigel Kennedy, Elgar's Violin Concerto and
>> Jacqueline Du Pre, Elgar's Cello Concerto.
>
>I suddenly have a very strong urge to listen to Ralph Vaughan Williams -
>The Lark Ascending.

Now, that's taste.
-- 
JAF anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
     Sapere Aude

In message , Bing Trotsky 
 writes
>Today I have mostly been listening to Soul Coughing, Bloc Party and Eddie
>Floyd.


I tried Stockhausen on R3 from the Proms, can only assume some people 
hear him the same way I see Pollock, and that some see Pollock the way I 
hear Stockhausen.

<ITSOL>
Do you see/hear Stockhausen or Pollock as anything other than 
randomness?
</ITSOL>



-- 
bof at bof dot me dot uk

August West  wrote:

> You want Classic FM - they play it every other hour.  In between the
> adverts for stair lifts, funeral paymane plans, and capital release
> cons.

That's probably a very good pointer to the demographic of Classic FM.
I'm surprised there's no mention of incontinence pad advertising in that
list.

I don't 'get' Classic FM. It seems dedicated to playing endless loops of
the catchy bits of various works but they compress it all and start with
(mostly) fairly average performances done by East European performers
getting a few beer tokens between gigs.

I suppose it's done to make me realise that much as loathe Radio 3, it
is still the standard to aim for in broadcast classical music.

JAF  wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 19:53:12 +0100, Hot Badger Deluxe
>  wrote:
> 
> >On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:43:20 +0100, JAF wrote:
> >
> >> Nigel Kennedy, Elgar's Violin Concerto and
> >> Jacqueline Du Pre, Elgar's Cello Concerto.
> >
> >I suddenly have a very strong urge to listen to Ralph Vaughan Williams -
> >The Lark Ascending.
> 
> Now, that's taste.

Oh well I listened to The Banks of Green Willow, which is less
interlectual and goes off after the first two minutes.

On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 20:36:11 +0100, bof wrote:

<snip>
> 
> I tried Stockhausen on R3 from the Proms, can only assume some people 
> hear him the same way I see Pollock, and that some see Pollock the way I 
> hear Stockhausen.
> 
> <ITSOL>
> Do you see/hear Stockhausen or Pollock as anything other than 
> randomness?
> </ITSOL>

Yup. I can understand people not liking them - and I can't explain why I
do. There's a connection of some sort between the perceiver and the artist.
Then again, I've played music that makes Stockhausen sound like The Beach
Boys (who I like too).


-- 
Smelling like an old adobe woman

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 20:50:01 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

> August West  wrote:
> 
>> You want Classic FM - they play it every other hour.  In between the
>> adverts for stair lifts, funeral paymane plans, and capital release
>> cons.
> 
> That's probably a very good pointer to the demographic of Classic FM.

NS,S.

-- 
One way ticket from Mornington Crescent to Tannhauser Gate please.

Hot Badger Deluxe formulated the question :
> The Associates
> Blancmange
> Yazoo (what a voice)
> Echo & The Bunnymen

Not that course woman baring her arse and farting at least.

-- 
Count Baldoni

Hot Badger Deluxe formulated on Saturday :
> The Associates
> Blancmange
> Yazoo (what a voice)
> Echo & The Bunnymen

Blancmange rings a bell, did they have a hit with "Living On The 
Ceiling" ?

-- 
Count Baldoni

It happens that Hot Badger Deluxe formulated :
> On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:43:20 +0100, JAF wrote:
>
>> Nigel Kennedy, Elgar's Violin Concerto and
>> Jacqueline Du Pre, Elgar's Cello Concerto.
>
> I suddenly have a very strong urge to listen to Ralph Vaughan Williams -
> The Lark Ascending.

Damn good choice I have it on CD somewhere.

-- 
Count Baldoni

August West presented the following explanation :
> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
>
>> On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:43:20 +0100, JAF wrote:
>> 
>>> Nigel Kennedy, Elgar's Violin Concerto and
>>> Jacqueline Du Pre, Elgar's Cello Concerto.
>> 
>> I suddenly have a very strong urge to listen to Ralph Vaughan Williams -
>> The Lark Ascending.
>
> You want Classic FM - they play it every other hour.  In between the
> adverts for stair lifts, funeral paymane plans, and capital release
> cons.

Things have not changed since the last time I tuned in about 3 years 
ago then.

-- 
Count Baldoni

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:47:39 +0100, Baldoni wrote:

> Hot Badger Deluxe formulated on Saturday :
>> The Associates
>> Blancmange
>> Yazoo (what a voice)
>> Echo & The Bunnymen
> 
> Blancmange rings a bell, did they have a hit with "Living On The 
> Ceiling" ?

Yup.

Wonderfully upbeat group.


-- 
Give them nail files soon

In uk.misc,  (Steve Firth) wrote in
<1il2c2z.b7uiiq1es4s5cN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>::

>August West  wrote:
>
>> You want Classic FM - they play it every other hour.  In between the
>> adverts for stair lifts, funeral paymane plans, and capital release
>> cons.
>
>That's probably a very good pointer to the demographic of Classic FM.
>I'm surprised there's no mention of incontinence pad advertising in that
>list.
>
>I don't 'get' Classic FM. It seems dedicated to playing endless loops of
>the catchy bits of various works but they compress it all and start with
>(mostly) fairly average performances done by East European performers
>getting a few beer tokens between gigs.

I call it "Witter FM".  Apart from the actual ads, they spend about half
the airtime pimping their own CDs or telling you how great next week
will be.

If Microsoft did radio, it would be like this.
-- 
Marc

"Every Little Thing She Does Is Sufficiently Advanced Technology."  (Jaimie Vandenburgh)

In uk.misc,  (bof) wrote in ::

>In message , Bing Trotsky 
> writes
>>Today I have mostly been listening to Soul Coughing, Bloc Party and Eddie
>>Floyd.
>
>
>I tried Stockhausen on R3 from the Proms, can only assume some people 
>hear him the same way I see Pollock, and that some see Pollock the way I 
>hear Stockhausen.
>
><ITSOL>
>Do you see/hear Stockhausen or Pollock as anything other than 
>randomness?
></ITSOL>

I can only assume that at Stockhausen's first public performance,
someone started applauding while the orchestra were still tuning up, and
everyone joined in.
-- 
Marc

"Every Little Thing She Does Is Sufficiently Advanced Technology."  (Jaimie Vandenburgh)

In article , E-0C001302-3144-
E@cleopatra.co.uk says...
> In uk.misc,  (bof) wrote in ::
> 
> >In message , Bing Trotsky 
> > writes
> >>Today I have mostly been listening to Soul Coughing, Bloc Party and Eddie
> >>Floyd.
> >
> >
> >I tried Stockhausen on R3 from the Proms, can only assume some people 
> >hear him the same way I see Pollock, and that some see Pollock the way I 
> >hear Stockhausen.
> >
> ><ITSOL>
> >Do you see/hear Stockhausen or Pollock as anything other than 
> >randomness?
> ></ITSOL>
> 
> I can only assume that at Stockhausen's first public performance,
> someone started applauding while the orchestra were still tuning up, and
> everyone joined in.
> 

It's worked for avante garde jazz so I don't see why not.

-- 
eric
Live fast, die only if strictly necessary.

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 16:07:54 +0100, Bing Trotsky wrote:

> In article , E-0C001302-3144-
> E@cleopatra.co.uk says...
>> In uk.misc,  (bof) wrote in ::
>> 
>>>In message , Bing Trotsky 
>>> writes
>>>>Today I have mostly been listening to Soul Coughing, Bloc Party and Eddie
>>>>Floyd.
>>>
>>>
>>>I tried Stockhausen on R3 from the Proms, can only assume some people 
>>>hear him the same way I see Pollock, and that some see Pollock the way I 
>>>hear Stockhausen.
>>>
>>><ITSOL>
>>>Do you see/hear Stockhausen or Pollock as anything other than 
>>>randomness?
>>></ITSOL>
>> 
>> I can only assume that at Stockhausen's first public performance,
>> someone started applauding while the orchestra were still tuning up, and
>> everyone joined in.
>> 
> 
> It's worked for avante garde jazz so I don't see why not.

Palestine.

Actually The Naked Pygmy Voles did that once - The audience sarcastically
applauded while they were tuning up, so they just carried on for the entire
gig. Derek Bailey once played the chair that had been put on stage for him
to sit on, rather than use his guitar. Improv (1) done well is superb, done
badly it is just embarrassing. And it's bloody hard to do well.

(1) Non-idiomatic improvisation.


-- 
If you don't like my haircut you can suck my socks.

Bing Trotsky  writes:

> In article , E-0C001302-3144-
> E@cleopatra.co.uk says...
> 
>> I can only assume that at Stockhausen's first public performance,
>> someone started applauding while the orchestra were still tuning up,
>> and everyone joined in.
>
> It's worked for avante garde jazz so I don't see why not.

Don't know why, bit I always feel there's a good deal more "heart" in
free jazz than in the "plink and squack" pieces by the likes of
Stockhausen, Xenakis, or Cage. I also much prefer the jazz version, even
though they seem, on the siurface, very similar. Maybe it's the drums?

-- 
white line fever

Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:

> Derek Bailey once played the chair that had been put on stage for him
> to sit on, rather than use his guitar.

Martin Lamble played a break on a stack of chairs in the studio (and a
milk bottle) on Fairport Convention's version of Dylan's "If you Gotta
Go Go now" (Although they did it in French: "Si Tu Doit Partir").

> (1) Non-idiomatic improvisation.

I really don't know that that means, or can mean. If you play an
instument, you have an idiom simply in the way your hands move.  Short
of playing an instument you can't play I fail to see how you can be
non-idiomatic.

-- 
That don't change the way I feel

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:25:06 +0100, August West wrote:

> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
> 
>> Derek Bailey once played the chair that had been put on stage for him
>> to sit on, rather than use his guitar.
> 
> Martin Lamble played a break on a stack of chairs in the studio (and a
> milk bottle) on Fairport Convention's version of Dylan's "If you Gotta
> Go Go now" (Although they did it in French: "Si Tu Doit Partir").
> 
>> (1) Non-idiomatic improvisation.
> 
> I really don't know that that means, or can mean. If you play an
> instument, you have an idiom simply in the way your hands move.  Short
> of playing an instument you can't play I fail to see how you can be
> non-idiomatic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XE2N4mxeRw

Or, get a copy of Guitar Solos Volume 2, by Derek Bailey. He just plays
"the guitar".


-- 
Of all the gin joints in all the towns in
all the world, she walks into Minehead.

Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XE2N4mxeRw

You know the answer to that...

> Or, get a copy of Guitar Solos Volume 2, by Derek Bailey. He just plays
> "the guitar".

But what does that *mean*?

-- 
it costs you more when you're to blame

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:36:53 +0100, August West wrote:

> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XE2N4mxeRw
> 
> You know the answer to that...

You really need to sort this out - you're missing out on lots of wonderful
stuff. Some of it very unlikely, like the early Soft Machine live videos,
Richard Thompson playing Beeswing live, PiL playing Death Disco on ToTP,
Miles Davis live, etc.

>> Or, get a copy of Guitar Solos Volume 2, by Derek Bailey. He just plays
>> "the guitar".
> 
> But what does that *mean*?

He doesn't play in any style or genre, he just plays.


-- 
He died for your sins, 
now he's back for your brains!

Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:

> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:36:53 +0100, August West wrote:
>
>> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
>> 
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XE2N4mxeRw
>> 
>> You know the answer to that...
>
> You really need to sort this out - you're missing out on lots of
> wonderful stuff. Some of it very unlikely, like the early Soft Machine
> live videos, Richard Thompson playing Beeswing live, PiL playing Death
> Disco on ToTP, Miles Davis live, etc.

I don't have enough time to listen to the music I have on LP, CD & tape!
Anyway, I'm not terrible keen on visual stuff. Don't much like films
either.

>>> Or, get a copy of Guitar Solos Volume 2, by Derek Bailey. He just
>>> plays "the guitar".
>> 
>> But what does that *mean*?
>
> He doesn't play in any style or genre, he just plays.

Again, what does that *mean*?

-- 
Are we having fun yet?

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:50:36 +0100, August West 
wrote the following to uk.misc:

> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:36:53 +0100, August West wrote:
>>
>>> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
>>> 
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XE2N4mxeRw
>>> 
>>> You know the answer to that...
>>
>> You really need to sort this out - you're missing out on lots of
>> wonderful stuff. Some of it very unlikely, like the early Soft Machine
>> live videos, Richard Thompson playing Beeswing live, PiL playing Death
>> Disco on ToTP, Miles Davis live, etc.
>
> I don't have enough time to listen to the music I have on LP, CD & tape!
> Anyway, I'm not terrible keen on visual stuff. Don't much like films
> either.
>
>>>> Or, get a copy of Guitar Solos Volume 2, by Derek Bailey. He just
>>>> plays "the guitar".
>>> 
>>> But what does that *mean*?
>>
>> He doesn't play in any style or genre, he just plays.
>
> Again, what does that *mean*?

Imagine the noise you get when a cat wanders up and down the keys of a
piano, or when a small child plays with a recorder, and then transfer it to
a guitar.

mh.
-- 
http://www.nukesoft.co.uk
http://personal.nukesoft.co.uk

From address is a blackhole. Reply-to address is valid.

Marcus Houlden  writes:
>
> Imagine the noise you get when a cat wanders up and down the keys of a
> piano, or when a small child plays with a recorder, and then transfer
> it to a guitar.

Sounds ace! Currently on the TT: Fripp & Summers "I Advance Masked",
next up: Manzanera, "Primitive Guitars". Then, later, the new Fall LP.
Then, perhaps, some Rod Stewart...

-- 
We've come this far. 
       ... And besides, anything could happen yet

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:50:36 +0100, August West wrote:

<snip>

>> He doesn't play in any style or genre, he just plays.
> 
> Again, what does that *mean*?

What it says.

Someone once described it as sounding like a guitar had just dropped out of
the sky, and he'd figured out a way to play it. 

Try http://www.last.fm/music/Derek+Bailey/Improvisation


-- 
Form is never more than an extension of content

On 5 Aug 2008 19:32:29 GMT, Marcus Houlden wrote:

<snip>

> Imagine the noise you get when a cat wanders up and down the keys of a
> piano, or when a small child plays with a recorder, and then transfer it to
> a guitar.

<sigh>

He was a talented guitarist who decided to do something different. Why do
people feel the need to insult him? Is it wrong to devise a different way
of playing? Does it somehow make him less of a musician, just because he's
decided not to conform?

At which period in its development should music have been frozen, and no
new things allowed?


-- 
Give them nail files soon

Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:

> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:50:36 +0100, August West wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> He doesn't play in any style or genre, he just plays.
>> 
>> Again, what does that *mean*?
>
> What it says.

See, I simply don't believe that's possible.  Not if you've ever heard
any music before, or played any other music. Your head and hands just
work in particular paths.

> Someone once described it as sounding like a guitar had just dropped
> out of the sky, and he'd figured out a way to play it.

Ah, the Language of Heaven idea...

-- 
sick, sick, sick, or something

In article , august@kororaa.com says...
> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
> 
> > Derek Bailey once played the chair that had been put on stage for him
> > to sit on, rather than use his guitar.
> 
> Martin Lamble played a break on a stack of chairs in the studio (and a
> milk bottle) on Fairport Convention's version of Dylan's "If you Gotta
> Go Go now" (Although they did it in French: "Si Tu Doit Partir").
> 

First Futile Hurling demo had a track with percussion done using half a 
drumstick a plastic chair and a metal dustbin lid. OTOH we didn't have a 
drummer [1].

[1] We sacked him because he was crap. Then decided everyone else we 
could get was worse.

-- 
eric
Live fast, die only if strictly necessary.

In article , august@kororaa.com says...
> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
> 
> > On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:36:53 +0100, August West wrote:
> >
> >> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
> >> 
> >>> Or, get a copy of Guitar Solos Volume 2, by Derek Bailey. He just
> >>> plays "the guitar".
> >> 
> >> But what does that *mean*?
> >
> > He doesn't play in any style or genre, he just plays.
> 
> Again, what does that *mean*?
> 

"Tonight on this programme you will hear soul, rhythm and blues, and 
jazz. We know that music is music."

-- 
eric
Live fast, die only if strictly necessary.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:58:23 +0100, August West wrote:

> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
> 
>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:50:36 +0100, August West wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> He doesn't play in any style or genre, he just plays.
>>> 
>>> Again, what does that *mean*?
>>
>> What it says.
> 
> See, I simply don't believe that's possible.  Not if you've ever heard
> any music before, or played any other music. Your head and hands just
> work in particular paths.
> 
>> Someone once described it as sounding like a guitar had just dropped
>> out of the sky, and he'd figured out a way to play it.
> 
> Ah, the Language of Heaven idea...

Jesus fucking wept. Listen to the fucking music. If you're too fucking
lazy, then I don't give a shit.


-- 
Only put off until tomorrow what you are willing to die having 
left undone.

Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:

> Jesus fucking wept. Listen to the fucking music. If you're too fucking
> lazy, then I don't give a shit.

Hey, don't get ratty! I just don't think the idea of "not playing in a
style or genre" is a meaningful (or even useful) one, that's all. Is
there any problem with that opinion?

(Do you know what the "Language Of Heaven" idea actually was, by the
way?)
-- 
something of the night

In article <13th6e2cczjtj$.ip7qhdm7p6in.dlg@40tude.net>, 
watercress@spamcop.org says...
> Someone once described it as sounding like a guitar had just dropped out of
> the sky, and he'd figured out a way to play it. 
> 
> Try http://www.last.fm/music/Derek+Bailey/Improvisation

That's exactly what it sounds like.  Are you perhaps mistaking that for 
a compliment?
-- 
SAm.

August West wrote:
> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
>
>> Derek Bailey once played the chair that had been put on stage for him
>> to sit on, rather than use his guitar.
>
> Martin Lamble played a break on a stack of chairs in the studio (and a
> milk bottle) on Fairport Convention's version of Dylan's "If you Gotta
> Go Go now" (Although they did it in French: "Si Tu Doit Partir").

I once saw a bloke play a percussion solo on the water around a 
fountain. He didn't half get wet but not as much as the bloke in the 
same loony group (La Marmite Infernale) who did his solo hanging by one 
hand from the fountain itself while holding his trumpet with the other.

(BTW 'dois', second person singular).

"John of Aix"  writes:

> (BTW 'dois', second person singular). 

I'm forgetting all the French I ever knew.

-- 
no matter how you try you'll never be as cheap as me

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:13:26 +0100, August West wrote:

> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
> 
>> Jesus fucking wept. Listen to the fucking music. If you're too fucking
>> lazy, then I don't give a shit.
> 
> Hey, don't get ratty! I just don't think the idea of "not playing in a
> style or genre" is a meaningful (or even useful) one, that's all. Is
> there any problem with that opinion?

Sorry - I get irrational attacks of anger. But Commenting on something you
haven't heard seems a bit rich.

> (Do you know what the "Language Of Heaven" idea actually was, by the
> way?)

Not sure of your usage - Jacob Grimm - God has teeth, etc?
 

-- 
The scientific theory I like best is that the rings of Saturn are
composed entirely of lost airline luggage.

Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:

> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:13:26 +0100, August West wrote:
>
>> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
>> 
>>> Jesus fucking wept. Listen to the fucking music. If you're too fucking
>>> lazy, then I don't give a shit.
>> 
>> Hey, don't get ratty! I just don't think the idea of "not playing in a
>> style or genre" is a meaningful (or even useful) one, that's all. Is
>> there any problem with that opinion?
>
> Sorry - I get irrational attacks of anger. But Commenting on something
> you haven't heard seems a bit rich.

Why do you think I haven't listened to it (or, rather heard him before)?
I have. And I don't think it's "outwith style or genre". No tonal
center, that's been done; no rhythic structure, that's been done,
too. Percusive effects, half-choked notes, likewise. 

"Nothing new under the sun". Or "always somethign new out of Africa"?
Anyway, what's a "genre"? Why does it matter if it is, or isn't? Can't
it stand on its own virtues?

>> (Do you know what the "Language Of Heaven" idea actually was, by the
>> way?)
>
> Not sure of your usage - Jacob Grimm - God has teeth, etc?

The idea that if you left a child devoid of all human language & contact
it would, of its own volition, speak the language of heaven it knew
before being born.

-- 
a thousand miles behind

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:18:03 +0100, August West wrote:

<snip>

> Why do you think I haven't listened to it 

Because I assumed that you would have mentioned it to back up your
argument. I've played music that doesn't sound like anything I have ever
heard, except maybe later. When I first heard "shouting at the ground" by
:zoviet*france: it reminded me of me (see Borges for details).

 
> "Nothing new under the sun". Or "always somethign new out of Africa"?
> Anyway, what's a "genre"? Why does it matter if it is, or isn't? Can't
> it stand on its own virtues?

There must always have something new under the sun - see Borges again, and
his story about how when anyone dies, a memory is lost.


>> Not sure of your usage - Jacob Grimm - God has teeth, etc?
> 
> The idea that if you left a child devoid of all human language & contact
> it would, of its own volition, speak the language of heaven it knew
> before being born.

Haven't heard of that. Given that I don't believe in God, it doesn't really
make any sense. <pause> although there is the fact that young children seem
to be pre-programmed for language - otherwise they couldn't learn it so
quickly... hmmm... presumably it's not language, but a common sub-lingual
structure... if we could find out what that is...


-- 
The lino sleeps tonight

Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:

> There must always have something new under the sun - see Borges again,
> and his story about how when anyone dies, a memory is lost.

And that memory is the sum of the person, and their life. As all music
is a sum of its parts - it's all new and different, yet somehow the same
- like human life. That's the wonder of it. And it's all music. Coming
from somewhere, going somewhere.

>> The idea that if you left a child devoid of all human language &
>> contact it would, of its own volition, speak the language of heaven
>> it knew before being born.
>
> Haven't heard of that. Given that I don't believe in God, it doesn't
> really make any sense.

I don't think it make any sense, even if you do! It's hatstand.

> <pause> although there is the fact that young children seem to be
> pre-programmed for language - otherwise they couldn't learn it so
> quickly... hmmm... presumably it's not language, but a common
> sub-lingual structure... if we could find out what that is...

See Chomsky for this argument!

-- 
Don't have to look no further

Hot Badger Deluxe  wrote:

> Someone once described it as sounding like a guitar had just dropped out
> of the sky, and he'd figured out a way to play it.

I think you misunderstood.

They meant it sounds like someone dropping a guitar.

And August West  was like:

> Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:13:26 +0100, August West wrote:
>>
>>> (Do you know what the "Language Of Heaven" idea actually was, by
>>> the way?)
>>
>> Not sure of your usage - Jacob Grimm - God has teeth, etc?
>
> The idea that if you left a child devoid of all human language &
> contact it would, of its own volition, speak the language of heaven
> it knew before being born.

Phrygian, according to Psammetichus. Although I don't think heaven
came into it, as such.

-- 
| Patrick Hardlentil -  patrick@dogslobber.demon.co.uk
| Don't make me fetch my cormorant

In message , August West 
 writes
>Bing Trotsky  writes:
>
>> In article , E-0C001302-3144-
>> E@cleopatra.co.uk says...
>>
>>> I can only assume that at Stockhausen's first public performance,
>>> someone started applauding while the orchestra were still tuning up,
>>> and everyone joined in.
>>
>> It's worked for avante garde jazz so I don't see why not.
>
>Don't know why, bit I always feel there's a good deal more "heart" in
>free jazz than in the "plink and squack" pieces by the likes of
>Stockhausen, Xenakis, or Cage.

Yep one's intuitive from the soul and the other's constructed 
analytically in the mind.




-- 
bof at bof dot me dot uk

bof  writes:

> In message , August West
>  writes
>>Bing Trotsky  writes:
>>
>>> In article , E-0C001302-3144-
>>> E@cleopatra.co.uk says...
>>>
>>>> I can only assume that at Stockhausen's first public performance,
>>>> someone started applauding while the orchestra were still tuning up,
>>>> and everyone joined in.
>>>
>>> It's worked for avante garde jazz so I don't see why not.
>>
>>Don't know why, bit I always feel there's a good deal more "heart" in
>>free jazz than in the "plink and squack" pieces by the likes of
>>Stockhausen, Xenakis, or Cage.
>
> Yep one's intuitive from the soul and the other's constructed
> analytically in the mind.

But I don't feel the same gap between, say, Abdullah Ibrahim
improvising, and Glenn Gould playing the Goldberg Variations.

I wonder if it's becasue the musicians playing Stockhausen, Xenakis, or
Cage don't really "get it", and aren't engaged with the piece?

-- 
shelter from the storm

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 10:59:34 +0100, August West wrote:

> bof  writes:
> 
>> In message , August West
>>  writes
>>>Bing Trotsky  writes:
>>>
>>>> In article , E-0C001302-3144-
>>>> E@cleopatra.co.uk says...
>>>>
>>>>> I can only assume that at Stockhausen's first public performance,
>>>>> someone started applauding while the orchestra were still tuning up,
>>>>> and everyone joined in.
>>>>
>>>> It's worked for avante garde jazz so I don't see why not.
>>>
>>>Don't know why, bit I always feel there's a good deal more "heart" in
>>>free jazz than in the "plink and squack" pieces by the likes of
>>>Stockhausen, Xenakis, or Cage.
>>
>> Yep one's intuitive from the soul and the other's constructed
>> analytically in the mind.
> 
> But I don't feel the same gap between, say, Abdullah Ibrahim
> improvising, and Glenn Gould playing the Goldberg Variations.
> 
> I wonder if it's becasue the musicians playing Stockhausen, Xenakis, or
> Cage don't really "get it", and aren't engaged with the piece?

The version of 4:33 shown on the beeb recently showed that - they didn't
take it seriously. I experienced a performance of Cage's Music Circus at
the Barbican a while ago. A large number of groups of musicians around the
foyer playing music by Cage, and related composers, along with a trapeze
artist, and a dancer who would occasionally grab people by the legs. In one
group there was a bloke playing a toilet - he had a trumpet mouthpiece
connected to a long tube, that was plumbed in to the outlet of the toilet.
It sounded wonderful. One just wandered around the building, essentially
making your own mix of the different pieces being played. It was glorious.


-- 
A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention
in history, with the possible exceptions of hand guns and tequila.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:43:15 +0100, Hot Badger Deluxe wrote:

> Haven't heard of that. Given that I don't believe in God, it doesn't really
> make any sense. <pause> although there is the fact that young children seem
> to be pre-programmed for language - otherwise they couldn't learn it so
> quickly... 

Rubbish.  I've been learning Forrin for about the same time as 
Junior's been learning English and Forrin, and I can order stuff
in shops an' all, and all he can do is go "gab gab gab", albeit 
fluently in both languages.

> hmmm... presumably it's not language, but a common
> sub-lingual structure... if we could find out what that is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_grammar

-- 
One way ticket from Mornington Crescent to Tannhauser Gate please.

"Fevric J Glandules" <fevric@invalid.invalid> wrote

>> Haven't heard of that. Given that I don't believe in God, it doesn't 
>> really
>> make any sense. <pause> although there is the fact that young children 
>> seem
>> to be pre-programmed for language - otherwise they couldn't learn it so
>> quickly...
>
> Rubbish.  I've been learning Forrin for about the same time as
> Junior's been learning English and Forrin, and I can order stuff
> in shops an' all, and all he can do is go "gab gab gab", albeit
> fluently in both languages.

Has  he got a big floppy hat?

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:17:20 +0100, Nine Cuts wrote:

<snip>

> Has  he got a big floppy hat?

No, it's just the way he's sitting.


-- 
This is a song from the bottom of a well
I didn't move here, I just fell

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 14:17:20 +0100, Nine Cuts wrote:

[Junior]

> Has  he got a big floppy hat?

He's got a little sun hat, of course.

-- 
One way ticket from Mornington Crescent to Tannhauser Gate please.

"Fevric J Glandules" <fevric@invalid.invalid> wrote

> [Junior]
>
>> Has  he got a big floppy cock?
>
> He's got a little one, like his dad.

Fairy Nuff.