Certain traits make exchange rate shoppers easy to spot, is it
true?  :)


http://www.buzzle.com/articles/134886.html

On 2008-06-19, stonej  wrote:
> Certain traits make exchange rate shoppers easy to spot, is it
> true?  :)
>
>
> http://www.buzzle.com/articles/134886.html

Not really. I've been going to the US regularly for nearly 30 years. In the
early days you could spot Brits 10 times out of 10. They looked poor and
scruffy. These days, it's much harder. The Merkins have got poorer and
scruffier, the Brits richer and smarter. Even the "teeth" jibe is pretty much
wiode of the mark these days.

-- 
          "Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
                 and presumptuous desire for a second one."
               [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

stonej presented the following explanation :
> Certain traits make exchange rate shoppers easy to spot, is it
> true?  :)
>
>
> http://www.buzzle.com/articles/134886.html

Yanks in London these last 25 years.  All with roll neck tops and 
trainers (sneakers) saying "wheres the Scotch House" in knightsbridge 
las t time I looked and then they head for the "Burberry" shop on 
Regent St.

They are great fun in pubs when ordering food and "Toad In The Hole" is 
on the menu.  We Baldoni's are in tthe catering trade, *order* some 
wine instead of requesting endless supplies of iced tea which tastes 
like piss.

Although their trade is most welcome, they are polite and good for the 
economy.  So are the Japs come to that.

-- 
Regno di Napoli

Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2008-06-19, stonej  wrote:
> > Certain traits make exchange rate shoppers easy to spot, is it
> > true?  :)
> >
> >
> > http://www.buzzle.com/articles/134886.html
> 
> Not really. I've been going to the US regularly for nearly 30 years. In the
> early days you could spot Brits 10 times out of 10. They looked poor and
> scruffy. These days, it's much harder. The Merkins have got poorer and
> scruffier, the Brits richer and smarter. Even the "teeth" jibe is pretty much
> wiode of the mark these days.

OTOH "Spot the Septic" is very easy in places like Milano or Firenze.

An abundance of polyester, teeth like giant plastic tombstones, shouting
loudly in peculiarly accented English at the locals, frequent
expostulations that the kawfee is wrong, the pizza is wrong, and there's
something wrong with a society that permits the consumption of "liquor"
in public.

Even before they open their mouths it's a fair bet that any couple
wearing identical beige windcheaters and slacks with tennis visors or
baseball caps, and white trainers while having mock alligator skin on
face and arms is going to be  septic. Any "businessman" wearing a
polyester suit and white socks is a septic.

I spent a happy afternon in a cafe with a Milanese friend laughing at
the septics trying to cope with the concept that a limonata consumed
standing up at the bar is half the price of one served at a table which
of itself is half the price of one served at a table in the Piazza di
Duomo. And of course the fact that all the "dollar millionaires" are
wanderign around examing price tags very carefully before they buy.

"$30 for a necktie, you must be joking buster!"

In article <1iis830.fq08uiyf83wsN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
 %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
> OTOH "Spot the Septic" is very easy in places like Milano or Firenze.

It's pathetically easy to spot the US exchange students, and they never
understand how they're so obvious, and it winds them up terrifically.
 
> there's
> something wrong with a society that permits the consumption of "liquor"
> in public.

While there's nothing whatever wrong with a society that permits the
concealed carrying of firearms in public.  Eh?

> And of course the fact that all the "dollar millionaires" are
> wanderign around examing price tags very carefully before they buy.
> 
> "$30 for a necktie, you must be joking buster!"

One of the ways you get to be rich is by avoiding being ripped off.  Innit?
-- 
SAm.

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:38:38 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

<snip lots>

I'm almost sure that I've posted before about a merkin couple trying to
order a gin and tonic in a hotel in Austria. The barman feigned ignorance
(he spoke English with no accent at all - when I first met him I assumed
that he was an English guest), because they didn't even try to order in
German. And the German for Gin And Tonic is... gin und tonische.

On my first visit to Portsmouth, while I was staying in various hotels,
prior to being relocated, I popped in to a local pub. There were couples
wearing matching shell suits...

However...

When I was in the loony bin I went to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting,
because a young woman who was also an inmate, who was detoxing off crack
(1), wanted some company.

On entering the meeting I saw a large number of people who, outside the
meeting, I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley. The guy sharing that
night had many facial piercings, lots of tattoos, ratty hair, and, frankly,
was the epitome of a heroin addict.

He was wonderful - I can't repeat what he said (anonymous, etc.), but he
had us all laughing out loud a lot, despite his horrible life story. And,
at the end of the meeting, there was a lot of hugging. It's removed several
archetypes - people who "looked like" junkies, drug dealers, villains, etc.
gave me a hug, commented that was new to this meeting, and offered me
support, if I needed it. And there were many people who didn't "look like
drug addicts" at all.

Hugging is very underrated.

(1) She was in a car accident in which she suffered brain damage, which
affected her memory and speech. She also broke her leg badly. Once she had
got over that (9 months of physiotherapy, and learning to speak again), she
was sent to the Priory to get off crack, etc. She ran away, and managed to
shatter her ankle while jumping over a gate (the same leg as before). It
was set incorrectly, and the doctors ignored her when she pointed this out.
The last I'd heard she'd been back to hospital to have the ankle rebroken
and set properly, the metal plates adjusted, and another plate inserted.
Before she went in she painted her cast bright pink, and wrote "get it
right this time" on it.

I really worry about her, but sadly don't have any way of contacting her.


-- 
This is Chris in the morning, and today we have the blues.

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:19:23 +0100, Sam Nelson wrote:

<sneeeeeeep>

> In article <1iis830.fq08uiyf83wsN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
>  %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
>> OTOH "Spot the Septic" is very easy in places like Milano or Firenze.
> 
> It's pathetically easy to spot the US exchange students, and they never
> understand how they're so obvious, and it winds them up terrifically.

There was an American student on my corridor at Uni for a while. One
evening we were in the kitchen discussing food. She said that we should try
meatloaf (the food, not the overblown wanker), and that she would love to
make us one, but that she couldn't find any packets of meatloaf mix (or
similar) in the UK. The idea of actually making one from scratch never
occurred to her.


-- 
In general, Girl One maintains the complexion
of a waterlogged corpse.

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:38:38 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

> OTOH "Spot the Septic" is very easy in places like Milano or Firenze.

And playing "spot the eyetie" is very easy in places like Barcelona.

And so on.

I'm not sure what it all proves.

-- 
One way ticket from Mornington Crescent to Tannhauser Gate please.

Fevric J Glandules <fevric@invalid.invalid> writes:

> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:38:38 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:
>
>> OTOH "Spot the Septic" is very easy in places like Milano or Firenze.
>
> And playing "spot the eyetie" is very easy in places like Barcelona.
>
> And so on.
>
> I'm not sure what it all proves.

Everyone's a fucking forriner!

-- 
beer: now there's a temporary solution

%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:

> And of course the fact that all the "dollar millionaires" are
> wanderign around examing price tags very carefully before they buy.

HOW MUCH IN *DOLLARS*? US DOLLARS?

-- 
I'm just a drunk in a band

Fevric J Glandules <fevric@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:38:38 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:
> 
> > OTOH "Spot the Septic" is very easy in places like Milano or Firenze.
> 
> And playing "spot the eyetie" is very easy in places like Barcelona.

It is if it's my friend from the house a few hundred yards down the
valley. "I went to Barcelona once. I told my wife there was no point
learning Spanish since it's the same as Italian. And do you know, no one
could understand me, not even when I shouted at them!"

August West  wrote:

> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
> 
> > And of course the fact that all the "dollar millionaires" are
> > wanderign around examing price tags very carefully before they buy.
> 
> HOW MUCH IN *DOLLARS*? US DOLLARS?

Yes, being able to multiply x by 2 seems to have escaped them.

I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do the
same.

%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:

> I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
> accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do
> the same.

Only the tartan woollen whisky tourist traps. 
Real shops don't, and the pubs certainly don't.

-- 
One of these days I'm gonna pull myself together

On 2008-06-19, August West  wrote:
> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
>
>> I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
>> accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do
>> the same.
>
> Only the tartan woollen whisky tourist traps. 
> Real shops don't, and the pubs certainly don't.

IME, pubs will accept anything vaguely currency like. I've certainly paid for
drinks with Deutchmarks in Bristol. You'd expect Embran pubs to be pretty
flexible given that they're used to pretend money anyway.


-- 
          "Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
                 and presumptuous desire for a second one."
               [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

August West  wrote:

> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
> 
> > I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
> > accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do
> > the same.
> 
> Only the tartan woollen whisky tourist traps. 
> Real shops don't, and the pubs certainly don't.

The weird thing is that in Markes et Sparkes there's a cash machine that
dispenses dollars and euros. I've seen both American and European
tourists take out money in either currency then go to spend it in Marks
or other High Street shops.

Bizarre behaviour since it would be better to pay in sterling on a
credit or debit card than to pay all the charges and lose out twice on
the exchange rate.

Fevric J Glandules <fevric@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:38:38 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:
> 
> > OTOH "Spot the Septic" is very easy in places like Milano or Firenze.
> 
> And playing "spot the eyetie" is very easy in places like Barcelona.
> 
> And so on.
> 
> I'm not sure what it all proves.

Regardless, I keep a weather eye out for people wearing outsize flat
hats and brandishing black puddings. Eeh, 'ecky thoomp, lad, likesay.

-- 
^Ï^                            Sn!pe  

           <:>----------[  I can text/plain  ]----------<:>

Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
> accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do the
> same.

I haven't seen half as many septics as usual in Winch. this year, 
I can't think why. Um, yes I can actually, I stay out of town in the
summer 'coz of all the expletive tourists. The forn skool kids too, 
who come over at Easter for a bit of "English Shopping" aka 
shoplifting or light pilferage.

-- 
^Ï^                            Sn!pe  

           <:>----------[  I can text/plain  ]----------<:>

On 19 Jun 2008 14:18:17 GMT, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
wrote the following to uk.misc:

> On 2008-06-19, August West  wrote:
>> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
>>
>>> I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
>>> accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do
>>> the same.
>>
>> Only the tartan woollen whisky tourist traps. 
>> Real shops don't, and the pubs certainly don't.
>
> IME, pubs will accept anything vaguely currency like. I've certainly paid for
> drinks with Deutchmarks in Bristol. You'd expect Embran pubs to be pretty
> flexible given that they're used to pretend money anyway.

Apparently the Glassy Junction pub in Southall accepts rupees. Might be a
brave person who tried to pay in euros somewhere in a tough part of Glasgow
though.

mh.
-- 
http://www.nukesoft.co.uk
http://personal.nukesoft.co.uk

From address is a blackhole. Reply-to address is valid.

Sn!pe  wrote:

> Fevric J Glandules <fevric@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:38:38 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:
> > 
> > > OTOH "Spot the Septic" is very easy in places like Milano or Firenze.
> > 
> > And playing "spot the eyetie" is very easy in places like Barcelona.
> > 
> > And so on.
> > 
> > I'm not sure what it all proves.
> 
> Regardless, I keep a weather eye out for people wearing outsize flat
> hats and brandishing black puddings. Eeh, 'ecky thoomp, lad, likesay.

I agree, especially because in my case any one of them is probably a
relative.

In article <1iisdt1.1f95r394xfomtN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
 %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
> August West  wrote:
> 
> > %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
> > 
> > > And of course the fact that all the "dollar millionaires" are
> > > wanderign around examing price tags very carefully before they buy.
> > 
> > HOW MUCH IN *DOLLARS*? US DOLLARS?
> 
> Yes, being able to multiply x by 2 seems to have escaped them.
> 
> I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
> accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do the
> same.

I very much doubt that.  Nowhere worth visiting, anyway.  Heck, they've
barely got over having to accept English money.
-- 
SAm.

In article <1fwu62uf8l1n0$.1fq6xiboab60k.dlg@40tude.net>, 
watercress@spamcop.org says...
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:19:23 +0100, Sam Nelson wrote:
> 
> <sneeeeeeep>
> 
> > In article <1iis830.fq08uiyf83wsN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>,
> >  %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
> >> OTOH "Spot the Septic" is very easy in places like Milano or Firenze.
> > 
> > It's pathetically easy to spot the US exchange students, and they never
> > understand how they're so obvious, and it winds them up terrifically.
> 
> There was an American student on my corridor at Uni for a while. One
> evening we were in the kitchen discussing food. She said that we should try
> meatloaf (the food, not the overblown wanker), and that she would love to
> make us one, but that she couldn't find any packets of meatloaf mix (or
> similar) in the UK. The idea of actually making one from scratch never
> occurred to her.
> 

To be fair that's probably as much as anything an age thing. My mate's 
wife Kelly is from Ohio and has been known to do an American meal now and 
again, and seems to know what she's doing from the ground up. Whereas 
when I was at uni there were quite a number of British students who 
couldn't cook anything as complicated as beans on toast.

On the other hand I have heard a Merkin tourist say "Gee! Stairs, how 
cute."

Basically it's best to avoid tourists and students from anywhere unless 
you are in the business of ripping them off.

-- 
eric
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:00:55 +0100, Buddha Rhubarb Butter wrote:

<snyp>

> To be fair

Bzzt - this is ukm - being "fair" is not an option.

Actually a mate of mine had an American girlfriend for some time. New York
Jewish, and probably the most _completely_ beautiful woman that I have met
- physically, intellectually, and artistically. A colourist by trade. I'm
trying to remember the artist that she worked for, but I just can't get the
name.

<fx: deep sigh>

Anyway, she did a Thanksgiving dinner that was wonderful.

<fx: deep sigh>


-- 
If I look confused it's because I'm thinking.

In message , Buddha Rhubarb 
Butter  writes:
>To be fair that's probably as much as anything an age thing. My mate's
>wife Kelly is from Ohio and has been known to do an American meal now and
>again, and seems to know what she's doing from the ground up. Whereas
>when I was at uni there were quite a number of British students who
>couldn't cook anything as complicated as beans on toast.

Also a regional thing.  The southerners I know are, overall, much keener 
on cookery than those from elsewhere.

-- 
The Massive Continuity of Ducks

In article <1ovjgft03fa4p$.1ix5gdebiwway.dlg@40tude.net>, 
watercress@spamcop.org says...
> Actually a mate of mine had an American girlfriend for some time. New York
> Jewish, and probably the most _completely_ beautiful woman that I have met
> - physically, intellectually, and artistically. A colourist by trade. I'm
> trying to remember the artist that she worked for, but I just can't get the
> name.
> 
> <fx: deep sigh>

So, never shagged her, then?

> Anyway, she did a Thanksgiving dinner that was wonderful.
> 
> <fx: deep sigh>

I guess not.
-- 
SAm.

stonej wrote:
> Certain traits make exchange rate shoppers easy to spot, is it
> true?  :)

Not sure about exchange rate shoppers, we don't get that sort of riff 
raff here, but 'guess the tourist' has been a game I've always indulged 
in. The British and Germans are dead easy, mainly because of their 
clothes and, in the case of Britons, their propensity to wander around 
with plastic bags and, less, silly hats. Italians are easy too because 
their chatter lets you know they're there before they are even in view. 
Others are more difficult unless they have a marked phsyionomical type 
but visitors generally are very easy to spot. For a start they tend to 
look upwards (at buildings, scenery etc) far more than locals and, in 
this sunny place, shine in their untanned whiteness.

In message , August West 
 writes
>%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
>
>> I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
>> accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do
>> the same.
>
>Only the tartan woollen whisky tourist traps.
>Real shops don't, and the pubs certainly don't.

Lidl shopping carts in English stores ("We don't do baskets! And please 
go around the store anti-clockwise!) accept 1EUR coins. As if any 
red-blooded Englishman would walk the streets of this sceptic isle with 
garlic muncher currency about his person.

-- 
James Follett

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:49:27 +0100, JF wrote:

<snip>

Reminds of a comment by Alan Carr from his (surprisingly brilliant) Live
DVD (The Tooth Fairy). He may be shite on TV, but the live stuff is
hilarious. Anyway:

"Have you been to A&E on a Saturday night? I thought someone had bombed
Lidl".

-- 
Compatibility: A reason for doing things wrong on purpose.

Sn!pe  wrote:

> Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
> > accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do the
> > same.
> 
> I haven't seen half as many septics as usual in Winch. this year, 
> I can't think why. Um, yes I can actually, I stay out of town in the
> summer 'coz of all the expletive tourists. The forn skool kids too, 
> who come over at Easter for a bit of "English Shopping" aka 
> shoplifting or light pilferage.

Much the same here, but I will be popping in to Winch in a few minutes.
Last time I did so it was full of Italian schoolgirls on the rob. Saying
"excuse me, out of the way miss" in the Italian equivalent of a Geordy
accent produced some astonishing double-takes.

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:23:25 +0100, Sam Nelson wrote:

> In article <1ovjgft03fa4p$.1ix5gdebiwway.dlg@40tude.net>, 
> watercress@spamcop.org says...
>> Actually a mate of mine had an American girlfriend for some time. New York
>> Jewish, and probably the most _completely_ beautiful woman that I have met
>> - physically, intellectually, and artistically. A colourist by trade. I'm
>> trying to remember the artist that she worked for, but I just can't get the
>> name.
>> 
>> <fx: deep sigh>
> 
> So, never shagged her, then?

Best friend's girlfriend.

>> Anyway, she did a Thanksgiving dinner that was wonderful.
>> 
>> <fx: deep sigh>
> 
> I guess not.

Nope. But she is one of those women who you occasionally think - "maybe,
one day". As was a woman who died on 9/11 - I tried twice - she said no,
and then got married (pretty fucking obviously underlining the NO), but...

OK, now I'm feeling sad - off to You Tube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elcOX-lUHO8

Ignore the video, it's shite. Just bathe in the song.


-- 
Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:05:37 +0100, Hot Badger Deluxe wrote:

> Best friend's girlfriend.

http://www.lyrics007.com/Spunge%20Lyrics/Best%20Mate's%20Girlfriend%20Lyrics.html


-- 
One way ticket from Mornington Crescent to Tannhauser Gate please.

On 2008-06-19, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> August West  wrote:
>
>> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
>> 
>> > I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
>> > accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do
>> > the same.
>> 
>> Only the tartan woollen whisky tourist traps. 
>> Real shops don't, and the pubs certainly don't.
>
> The weird thing is that in Markes et Sparkes there's a cash machine that
> dispenses dollars and euros. I've seen both American and European
> tourists take out money in either currency then go to spend it in Marks
> or other High Street shops.
>
> Bizarre behaviour since it would be better to pay in sterling on a
> credit or debit card than to pay all the charges and lose out twice on
> the exchange rate.

Americans I can understand; I expect most of them don't realise there are other
currencies in the world. I expect the Yoorpeans think we're in the Euro.

-- 
          "Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
                 and presumptuous desire for a second one."
               [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

In article <3nbolbEHhrWIFw+z@marage.demon.co.uk>, 
jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk says...
> In message , August West 
>  writes
> >%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
> >
> >> I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
> >> accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do
> >> the same.
> >
> >Only the tartan woollen whisky tourist traps.
> >Real shops don't, and the pubs certainly don't.
> 
> Lidl shopping carts in English stores ("We don't do baskets! And please 
> go around the store anti-clockwise!) accept 1EUR coins. As if any 
> red-blooded Englishman would walk the streets of this sceptic isle with 
> garlic muncher currency about his person.
> 
> 
All the Lidl's I've been in are 5 or 6 aisles wide, with access at both 
ends to all of them, and crossings midway in a couple.
You'll find all shopping trolleys accept Euros, and forrin ones accept 
pounds. Though the Reus Carrefour one did steal our fire brigade token - 
it was a bit schonky in coin slots over here though anyway, no great 
loss.
-- 
Snob? Were I a snob, I wouldn't be talking to you.

Hot Badger Deluxe  wrote:

> > So, never shagged her, then?
> 
> Best friend's girlfriend.

Always good for a sympathy shag.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 01:23:12 GMT, Fevric J Glandules wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:05:37 +0100, Hot Badger Deluxe wrote:
> 
>> Best friend's girlfriend.
> 
> http://www.lyrics007.com/Spunge%20Lyrics/Best%20Mate's%20Girlfriend%20Lyrics.html

I'd assumed that that was a link to this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UU6j4WaHIU

NB: The video's shit, but I still like the song. First heard it was on
OGWT, on the same episode that The Police were on for the first time. IIRC,
which probably means that I'm wrong.


-- 
Lady, I'm your worst nightmare...
A pumpkin with a gun.

In article <1tvvioyhf6xpd$.1v40nnomip1wb$.dlg@40tude.net>, 
watercress@spamcop.org says...
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:23:25 +0100, Sam Nelson wrote:
> 
> > In article <1ovjgft03fa4p$.1ix5gdebiwway.dlg@40tude.net>, 
> > watercress@spamcop.org says...
> >> Actually a mate of mine had an American girlfriend for some time. New York
> >> Jewish, and probably the most _completely_ beautiful woman that I have met
> >> - physically, intellectually, and artistically. A colourist by trade. I'm
> >> trying to remember the artist that she worked for, but I just can't get the
> >> name.
> >> 
> >> <fx: deep sigh>
> > 
> > So, never shagged her, then?
> 
> Best friend's girlfriend.

<http://www.jazzbutcher.com/htdb/lyrics/girlfriend.html>

There's probably an audio file out there somewhere. One of the greatest 
pop songs of all time.

-- 
eric
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:40:11 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

<snip>

> sympathy shag

Now there's a name for an avian superhero.


-- 
Nothing brings people together like a Christmas lung fungus.

Hot Badger Deluxe  wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:40:11 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > sympathy shag
> 
> Now there's a name for an avian superhero.

Along with his sidekick Comfort Cormorant?

In article , 
jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk says...
> In message , August West 
>  writes
> >%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
> >
> >> I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
> >> accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do
> >> the same.
> >
> >Only the tartan woollen whisky tourist traps.
> >Real shops don't, and the pubs certainly don't.
> 
> Lidl shopping carts in English stores ("We don't do baskets! And please 
> go around the store anti-clockwise!) accept 1EUR coins. 

You say this as though it's something new. If the slot accepts a £1 
coin, it'll accept a Euro coin.

In article <485ab85d$0$889$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>, 
j.murphy@libertysurf.fr says...
> stonej wrote:
> > Certain traits make exchange rate shoppers easy to spot, is it
> > true?  :)
> 
> Not sure about exchange rate shoppers, we don't get that sort of riff 
> raff here, but 'guess the tourist' has been a game I've always indulged 
> in. The British and Germans are dead easy, mainly because of their 
> clothes and, in the case of Britons, their propensity to wander around 
> with plastic bags and, less, silly hats. Italians are easy too because 
> their chatter lets you know they're there before they are even in view. 
> Others are more difficult unless they have a marked phsyionomical type 
> but visitors generally are very easy to spot. For a start they tend to 
> look upwards (at buildings, scenery etc) far more than locals and, in 
> this sunny place, shine in their untanned whiteness. 

The Brits are the ones mottled white and sun-burn red.

In article <g3e0uo$9an$2@anubis.demon.co.uk>,
 Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
> Americans I can understand; I expect most of them don't realise there are
> other > currencies in the world. I expect the Yoorpeans think we're in the
> Euro.

Irish ex-pat friend that came to visit us from her home in NC brought Euros,
and was gobsmacked to find us still using pounds.  After all, all her Irish
relatives use Euros...
-- 
SAm.

Amethyst Deceiver  wrote:

> You say this as though it's something new. If the slot accepts a £1 
> coin, it'll accept a Euro coin. 

I've found a new way to make money.

2x20p (or even better a slug[1]) will work to release a supermarket
trolley.

There's always some knobhead who will rush up and hand over a pound and
walk off with the trolley rather than have to struggle to release one.


[1] Not the squishy sort, obviously. Italian supermarkets give away key
rings which have a fake 1 Euro on them for use in trolleys. The slug has
a hole bored in it and it clips onto the keyring.

In message , Dave Budd 
 writes
>In article <3nbolbEHhrWIFw+z@marage.demon.co.uk>,
>jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk says...
>> In message , August West
>>  writes
>> >%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
>> >
>> >> I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
>> >> accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do
>> >> the same.
>> >
>> >Only the tartan woollen whisky tourist traps.
>> >Real shops don't, and the pubs certainly don't.
>>
>> Lidl shopping carts in English stores ("We don't do baskets! And please
>> go around the store anti-clockwise!) accept 1EUR coins. As if any
>> red-blooded Englishman would walk the streets of this sceptic isle with
>> garlic muncher currency about his person.
>>
>>
>All the Lidl's I've been in are 5 or 6 aisles wide, with access at both
>ends to all of them, and crossings midway in a couple.

Yes. You're right. The only two I've visited with any regularity are 
Bognor and Farnham. Both have abandoned people processed closed aisles, 
probably because such a system made it easier for pikey shoplifters to 
make quick getaways. My reference to going the wrong way was a joke 
harking back to the time when Lidl were stung to their hypersensitive 
core by a jolly jape (IIR) Mac cartoon showing goosestepping, 
command-barking Lidl sales staff intimidating cowering customers.

One thing puzzled me about Lidl so much so that I was moved to write to 
their bunker schloss HQ in Wimbledon. Their jams are the best in the 
country but why, I wondered, were they selling the stuff in 450 gram 
jars -- a very near match to the old Imperial pound? All red-blooded 
English grocery shops such as Tesco and the like had long abandoned such 
practices. The rot started around the 1960s with Schweppes marketing 
their Hartley new jam in pound-shrinking 12oz or 14oz jars.

I didn't really expect a reply but I got one. Their main supplier was a 
Polish company who exported most of their stuff to North American 
customers who were attached to one pound jars. For the European market 
they merely altered the label rather than change the jar.

-- 
James Follett

In article <1iiu0ru.86qk4m8w0wi4N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, %steve%
@malloc.co.uk says...
> Amethyst Deceiver  wrote:
> 
> > You say this as though it's something new. If the slot accepts a £1 
> > coin, it'll accept a Euro coin. 
> 
> I've found a new way to make money.
> 
> 2x20p (or even better a slug[1]) will work to release a supermarket
> trolley.
> 
> There's always some knobhead who will rush up and hand over a pound and
> walk off with the trolley rather than have to struggle to release one.
> 
> 
> [1] Not the squishy sort, obviously. Italian supermarkets give away key

I did wonder.

> rings which have a fake 1 Euro on them for use in trolleys. The slug has
> a hole bored in it and it clips onto the keyring.

We had a couple of those. The one from the fire service is the one we 
left stuck in a trolley in Forrin - no big loss as we got it from an 
abandoned trolley in Domestic. The one from Big Bank seems to be working 
pretty well.

In message , Sam Nelson 
 writes
>In article <g3e0uo$9an$2@anubis.demon.co.uk>,
> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
>> Americans I can understand; I expect most of them don't realise there are
>> other > currencies in the world. I expect the Yoorpeans think we're in the
>> Euro.
>
>Irish ex-pat friend that came to visit us from her home in NC brought Euros,
>and was gobsmacked to find us still using pounds.  After all, all her Irish
>relatives use Euros...

In a keynote speech in the late 1990s premier Blair set out a timetable 
for England to adopt the euro. Unfortunately he didn't square it with 
treasury and foreign. Foreign were particularly incensed because part of 
England's special relationship and part of their damage limitation deal 
with the Clinton administration after the CREP debacle was that England 
never adopt the euro so long as the USA was opposed to it. It was the 
only way for England to appease the United States and hang onto its 
prized permanent seat on the UN Security Council. Of the five permanent 
members, England is the only country dependent on the goodwill of 
another permanent member to hold onto its seat. That goes back to 
Kennedy/MacMillan Nassau conference.

-- 
James Follett

In message , Amethyst 
Deceiver  writes
>In article <3nbolbEHhrWIFw+z@marage.demon.co.uk>,
>jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk says...
>> In message , August West
>>  writes
>> >%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
>> >
>> >> I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they now
>> >> accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra that do
>> >> the same.
>> >
>> >Only the tartan woollen whisky tourist traps.
>> >Real shops don't, and the pubs certainly don't.
>>
>> Lidl shopping carts in English stores ("We don't do baskets! And please
>> go around the store anti-clockwise!) accept 1EUR coins.
>
>You say this as though it's something new.

The euro is new. Not even a decade old.             Jim Follett

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:55:00 +0100, JF wrote:

<snip>

> In a keynote speech in the late 1990s premier Blair set out a timetable 
> for England to adopt the euro. Unfortunately he didn't square it with 
> treasury and foreign.

Teh Government never seem to think of the impact of what they are doing.
I've worked in the IT/DP/Computer departments of both a major stock broker
and an assurance firm. We feared budget day, because often things were
announced that meant we had to change programs very quickly. An example of
programming stupidity - at the brokers, some moron had hard coded the VAT
rate. Anyone who thinks that the Y2K bug wasn't a major issue should think
on the previous sentence, and then consider how stupidly people could fuck
up. Anyone who uses overloaded data should be strung up by their thumbs (I
was at work at 04:15 in the morning of 2000-01-01, after months of work.
The only thing that fucked up was the company's website (outsourced to a
couple of morons - one was known as Flat Eric because he always had
headphones on, and nodded his head in time to the music).

I feel a rant coming on:

Quote from a manager, supported by many of his team, but causing one of his
staff to come over and talk to me (I'd got her the job, because she was
very very good, and, at that time, looked after kwality) - "we don't need
to check whether the input file is empty, because it won't be".

When we were about to introduce ClearCase as the de facto standard at IBM
in the UK, I suggested to my boss that we should start by getting staff
involved, so we didn't alienate then. Her response (IIRC) "It's a standard
- they'll have to use it".

There was a Y2K guru, whose name I have forgotten(1) - used to own y2k.com
IIRC. He wrote a lot of common sense on IT, which is a fucking rarity. Up
there with Dot Graham when it came to insight.

Time for an(other) drink.

(1) Just remembered - Peter De Jager. See here:

http://www.technobility.com/docs/menu-managing-change.htm

They all talked "the bleeding obvious". Reminds me of a comment by my
favourite poet, Charles Bukowski - "the important thing is the obvious
thing that no-one is saying".


-- 
Concrete is heavy; iron is hard - but the grass will prevail.

Dave Budd wrote:

> All the Lidl's I've been in are 5 or 6 aisles wide, with access at both 
> ends to all of them, and crossings midway in a couple.

You know, I can't help thinking you need to stay in more.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:12:36 +0100, Willy Eckerslyke wrote:

> Dave Budd wrote:
> 
>> All the Lidl's I've been in are 5 or 6 aisles wide, with access at both 
>> ends to all of them, and crossings midway in a couple.
> 
> You know, I can't help thinking you need to stay in more.

Stay in more what?


-- 
Let's panic later.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:55:00 +0100, JF wrote:

> members, England is the only country dependent on the goodwill of 
> another permanent member to hold onto its seat. That goes back to 
> Kennedy/MacMillan Nassau conference.

"England" isn't on the security council.

Nonetheless I'd be interested in any evidence you might have to back
up this assertion.

AFAIK the UK has a permanent seat on the security council (article 23 
of the UN Charter) and amendments to the Charter only come into force
if *all* permanent members of the security council agree to them
(article 108).  It looks to me like a deliberate measure to ensure 
that permanent members can never be deprived of their seats.

Executive summary: bollocks.

-- 
One way ticket from Mornington Crescent to Tannhauser Gate please.

Hot Badger Deluxe wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:12:36 +0100, Willy Eckerslyke wrote:
> 
>> Dave Budd wrote:
>>
>>> All the Lidl's I've been in are 5 or 6 aisles wide, with access at both 
>>> ends to all of them, and crossings midway in a couple.
>> You know, I can't help thinking you need to stay in more.
> 
> Stay in more what?

A very good question.

In uk.misc,  (Hot Badger Deluxe) wrote in <53d2e0j98zr2.xntjplia7haj$.dlg@40tude.net>::

>Anyone who thinks that the Y2K bug wasn't a major issue should think
>on the previous sentence, and then consider how stupidly people could fuck
>up. Anyone who uses overloaded data should be strung up by their thumbs 

When time was cheap and memory was expensive, and of course, none of this code would still be around in *forty years*, surely?  it was the sensible thing to do.

I've seen estimates that suggest that in fact saving those two digits for all those years probably saved more money in real terms than Y2K cost to fix.

I have no sympathy for those idiots (led by the gutter press, as usual, disappointed by the lack of disasters) who claim that Y2K was a scam- it's like saying: "Look, you've vaccinated all those kids, and none of them died."  Well, duh.
-- 
Marc

When the politicians draw their careful distinctions between "us" and "them", 
I do not feel included, by and large, in their "us".  - Carl LHS Williams in urs

In article <1ruwwwa45nasf$.eyjyv6x5a2jn.dlg@40tude.net>,
 Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:12:36 +0100, Willy Eckerslyke wrote:
> 
> > Dave Budd wrote:
> > 
> >> All the Lidl's I've been in are 5 or 6 aisles wide, with access at both 
> >> ends to all of them, and crossings midway in a couple.
> > 
> > You know, I can't help thinking you need to stay in more.
> 
> Stay in more what?

Stay in more, please.
-- 
SAm.

Hot Badger Deluxe  wrote:

> > sympathy shag
> 
> Now there's a name for an avian superhero.

Are you looking at me?

-- 
^Ï^                            Sn!pe  

<--[  See a pin and pick it up and all that day you'll have a pin  ]-->

Fevric J Glandules <fevric@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:55:00 +0100, JF wrote:
> 
> > members, England is the only country dependent on the goodwill of 
> > another permanent member to hold onto its seat. That goes back to 
> > Kennedy/MacMillan Nassau conference.
> 
> "England" isn't on the security council.
> 
> Nonetheless I'd be interested in any evidence you might have to back
> up this assertion.
> 
> AFAIK the UK has a permanent seat on the security council (article 23
> of the UN Charter) and amendments to the Charter only come into force
> if *all* permanent members of the security council agree to them
> (article 108).  It looks to me like a deliberate measure to ensure 
> that permanent members can never be deprived of their seats.
> 
> Executive summary: bollocks.

Besides, we'd nuke NY. Obvious, really.

-- 
^Ï^                            Sn!pe  

<--[  See a pin and pick it up and all that day you'll have a pin  ]-->

Sam Nelson  wrote:

> > > You know, I can't help thinking you need to stay in more.
> > 
> > Stay in more what?
> 
> Stay in more, please.

Do you mean 'longer'?

-- 
^Ï^                            Sn!pe  

<--[  See a pin and pick it up and all that day you'll have a pin  ]-->

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:59:44 +0100, Sam Nelson wrote:

> In article <1ruwwwa45nasf$.eyjyv6x5a2jn.dlg@40tude.net>,
>  Hot Badger Deluxe  writes:
>> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:12:36 +0100, Willy Eckerslyke wrote:
>> 
>>> Dave Budd wrote:
>>> 
>>>> All the Lidl's I've been in are 5 or 6 aisles wide, with access at both 
>>>> ends to all of them, and crossings midway in a couple.
>>> 
>>> You know, I can't help thinking you need to stay in more.
>> 
>> Stay in more what?
> 
> Stay in more, please.

Mushy please?


-- 
Money doesn't buy happiness. But happiness isn't everything.

In article <1iiunw1.v81qlj11m2bcmN%snipe@spambin.fsnet.co.uk>, 
snipe@spambin.fsnet.co.uk says...
> Sam Nelson  wrote:
> 
> > > > You know, I can't help thinking you need to stay in more.
> > > 
> > > Stay in more what?
> > 
> > Stay in more, please.
> 
> Do you mean 'longer'?

Stay in more longer?  That doesn't make any sense!
-- 
SAm.

Sam Nelson  wrote:

> > > > > You know, I can't help thinking you need to stay in more.
> > > > 
> > > > Stay in more what?
> > > 
> > > Stay in more, please.
> > 
> > Do you mean 'longer'?
> 
> Stay in more longer?  That doesn't make any sense!

Unsurprising, I lingered longer in the local than I should have done,
probably. 

-- 
^Ï^                            Sn!pe  

     <:>----------[  Down with this sort of thing!  ]----------<:>

Hot Badger Deluxe  wrote:

> >>> You know, I can't help thinking you need to stay in more.
> >> 
> >> Stay in more what?
> > 
> > Stay in more, please.
> 
> Mushy please?

Are we talking sloppy seconds here?

-- 
^Ï^                            Sn!pe  

     <:>----------[  Down with this sort of thing!  ]----------<:>

In message <lbP6k.12750$E41.12183@text.news.virginmedia.com>, Fevric J
Glandules <fevric@invalid.invalid> writes
>On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:55:00 +0100, JF wrote:
>
>> members, England is the only country dependent on the goodwill of
>> another permanent member to hold onto its seat. That goes back to
>> Kennedy/MacMillan Nassau conference.
>
>"England" isn't on the security council.

Sorry -- a long load of boring bollocks follows:

Just as I never, ever use personal insults, I never, ever use the 'B'
word. For me 'England' is writ through our affairs like the proud name
of Bognor is written through a stick of rock. I know it's wrong
technically but it's a Trinity trait I share with many others whom I
admire. The union isn't as old as America; England has been around for
centuries. My prejudices are the result of many years assiduous
cultivation; I beg leave to enjoy them.
>
>Nonetheless I'd be interested in any evidence you might have to back
>up this assertion.

Only the evidence of sleepless nights when President-Elect Clinton
learned the sordid truth about England's involvement in CREP and the
frantic efforts by the US state department and treasury and foreign to
appease an incandescent Clinton.

I think to understand that horrible period it's necessary to understand
treasury's and, to a lesser extent, foreign's grip on the governance of
England:

SIR HUMPHREY: Prime minister -- if this information were to fall
into enemy hands...

JIM HACKER: Why should the Russians care?

SIR HUMPHREY: (patiently) The treasury, prime minister. The Russians
already know about it.

Treasury has absolute and incontrovertible power of veto over the
cabinet which it largely ignores. The contempt that treasury office have
for the cabinet office is well-known. Treasury and their mates at
foreign are Trinity House and Balliol first class honours men in
philosophy etc -- an elite clique determined to ensure that England
remains a world power -- whereas cabinet are regarded as a bunch of
loudmouth grammar school oinks with a predilection for shagging anything
they can lay their hands on.

Apart from vetoing Blair's ludicrous thinking-on-the-hoof euro agenda,
recent examples of treasury use of their veto was when a new Labour
government had the spiffing wheeze of a crime prevention initiative by
empowering local authorities to impose and enforce curfews on miscreant
kiddiwinks. A great idea! Trebles all round! Bloody expensive, though.
Trouble was no one thought to square it with treasury so that when local
authorities approached them for financial cover, they were told what to
do smartish. As far as I know, the idea was stillborn, has never been
implemented by any local authority, and heralded a whole series of
Labour's spiffing wheeze notions that were dead in the water because
treasury so decided.

Going back a few years, the John Major administration had an
embarrassing community tax shortfall. Norman Lamont sounded out his
treasury PS on the release of strategic war reserve funds to bridge the
gap. About a month later, when the PS stopped laughing, he told Lamont
to piss off, leaving the hapless chancellor to find the missing dosh by
bunging 2-1/2 per cent on
the standard rate of VAT. No way were treasury going to upset foreign by
dipping into their war funds to bail out the feeble Major government.
Labour howled about the surcharge but were powerless to remove it in
1997 when they won the general election. According to John Major's
biography, on the notorious day when interest rates were ratcheted up to
around 15 per cent, Norman Lamont, supposedly the government's conduit
with treasury, had no idea what was going on and couldn't even be found!

Pinning down the source of treasury power, which has been remarkably
variable over the last half century, needs a far more competent
political commentator than me. I'm just a tired old hack. C P Snow is a
good start but hardly up-to-date and even he could not have envisaged
the incredible power that treasury have today. In general when a
government is strong, treasury is weak; when government is weak,
treasury is strong. I don't mean strong or weak government in terms of
backbenchers' bums on seats sense, but in vision, drive, decisiveness
and initiative. England has suffered two relatively weak, indecisive
governments: Major and Blair. Treasury have gleefully expanded their
influence to fill the lassitude vacuum with the result that cabinet is
now impotent and is not even called upon to vote on anything.

Under Blair the cabinet had no knowledge of the planned merger between
Customs and Excise and Revenue until Gordon Brown stood up in parliament
to announce it. Customs was an ancient, efficient and largely
incorruptible government department and yet it was swept aside on the
whim of treasury without any parliamentary debate or cabinet
decision-making.

It's hard to pin down the genesis of this present power seizure but
going back to an historic agreement nearly half a century ago in Bermuda
between Harold Macmillan and President Kennedy marks as good a starting
point as any. It was an extraordinary treaty because it resulted in
America selling nuclear arms delivery and maintenance systems to a
trusted ally. This was unheard of then and it still is today. But for
foreign and treasury it was a trebles all round decision because it
enabled England to remain in the nuclear club whilst clinging to its
prized permanent seat on the UN Security Council without having to
retain a costly R and D nuclear weapons programme.

To understand why foreign and treasury hold a permanent UN seat so dear
is because of the tremendous political clout they perceive it carries.
The five members are deemed world powers, with England among them. That
matters very much to the oxbridge guard.

The tacit agreement with the US has been that the UK should always side
with the US in the UN on important issues, abstain on lesser issues, and
never ever use the veto against the US.

There wasn't much of a threat to treasury's power until Harold Wilson
got thoroughly pissed off with them for scuppering (among other daft
wheezes) his land commission and option mortgage schemes -- bold ideas
for acquiring building land and providing first home buyers with cheap
mortgages. No way were treasury going to let a cabinet destabilise the
property market; the ideas never got off the ground.

Harold Wilson's bright counter idea to thwart treasury was to set up his
own rival treasury -- the Department of Economic Affairs. For a while
the UK had two treasuries! Unfortunately for Harold he made the grievous
mistake of putting an ignorant, bullying, vain drunkard in charge of his
brainchild. The appointment of George-Brown was a sop to old labour but
treasury mandarins could out-think and out-smart such an incredible
dullard with little effort. A few inspired leaks to lobby correspondents
about George-Brown's boorish, drunken behaviour and he was finished.

        NB: History was to repeat itself when Tony Blair appointed the
        appalling John Prescott as deputy prime minister. Treasury could
        hardly believe their luck in being handed on a plate such an
        oafish, utterly repulsive, bullying slug for them to sideline
        and out-smart without trying. As with George-Brown, a few words
        in the right lobby correspondent ears on leads to follow-up and
        the bar steward as he was known was finished.

Things continued reasonably smoothly until Margaret Thatcher became PM.
The worrying aspect about Maggie's reign was that she was in power for
so long that civil service middle management saw her administration as
having more influence over their careers than their immediate superiors.
Particularly when she shook treasury by vetoing proposals to join the
exchange rate mechanism. Nevertheless throughout most of her time in
power Nigel Lawson was chancellor -- the longest-serving chancellor
until Gordon Brown. Prime Ministers rarely sack chancellors because it
undermines City and foreign market confidence -- much better to behave
in a manner calculated to push them into resigning such as Mrs T
retaining Sir Alan Walters as her personal economic advisor. A risky
strategy. Mrs T's authority never really recovered from the
mild-mannered Geoffrey Howe's hard-hitting resignation speech. He
wielded the deadliest of long knives.

Treasury power was shaken but not seriously undermined because
throughout most of her reign Mrs T never had an inkling that England was
shadowing the W. German mark. In his biography 'The View From No 11'
Lawson had no regrets, and certainly no qualms, that this vital
information was withheld from her.

By and large treasury went on consolidating their power throughout the
1980s and 90s, focusing most of their cuts on internal policing in the
belief that the English are inherently honest and that society doesn't
require much policing. Their latest tactic to reduce the police force is
to use database policing.

All went reasonably well until President-Elect Clinton learned about the
UK's clandestine and never fully explained role in CREP -- the campaign
to re-elect President Bush. Clinton, to coin a cliche, went ballistic.
His immediate reaction was to get England
tossed off its permanent seat on the UN security council along with
France -- whom he never trusted anyway. Clinton's view was that the
England and France represented the old guard. The future was in the
hands of the two major economic powers of Germany and Japan.

The state department panicked, as did foreign and treasury. State told
Clinton the blunt truth that neither Japan or Germany had the stomachs
or constitutions for serious wog-killing whereas the UK and France had
long traditions of not only killing stroppy wogs, but doing so with
efficient relish. State eventually persuaded Clinton that the US could
not afford to lose the support of England and France in the inevitable
eruptions in the long-festering conflict between democracy and
Mohammedanism. In terms of standing armies, France and England were the
big hitters of Europe which were certain to be needed in future. Clinton
eventually relented.

Treasury breathed again and quietly buried their plans to make massive
reductions in the British Armed forces. The super aircraft carrier
concept, long-buried by Christopher Mayhew, was dusted off and offered
as an olive branch to state. The result was that England is to go ahead
with the building of two monstrous carriers. The old guard in treasury
got their way. They had always maintained that the only way for England
to finance a big hitting military force without taxation levels that
could lead to internal instability was to slash the UK's internal
administration which they dubbed 'bureaucracy'. Within a decade the
sheer level of the cuts was astounding.

Court police -- thousands of court bailiffs and clerks to justices staff
sacked. Fine an Englishman and he'll pay-up was treasury belief,
especially if backed up by aggressively worded threats. Internal
policing of society using court staff was not required. If required,
then there was always the private sector.

        NB: The incredible short-sightedness of this policy struck home
        in the closing years of the Major administration when treasury,
        always keen to come up with cheap methods of increasing revenue,
        hit upon the bright wheeze of gearing fines to peoples income.
        They sponsored a criminal justice bill with that in mind.

        To work the system had to depend on the honesty of criminals
        concerning their income because the courts no longer had the
        staff to check the statements of felons. When this was pointed
        out to treasury they took the view that most citizens were
        honest in what they told the courts and that there was no need
        to even consider a return to old system. Naturally the whole
        cock-eyed system fell apart once people spotted the glaring
        hole. In my case, by careful selection of a time-slice to
        determine my income, the wonderful treasury formula meant
        that a speeding fine cost me a mere GBP3!
        A retired teacher of my acquaintance had to stump up GBP2!
        'Surely they'll check!' she protested. 'I'm sure they won't,' I
        retorted.

        All over the country court revenues fell to zilt.

About 5000 roadside vehicle inspectors sacked. Most haulage operators
were trustworthy, thought treasury, therefore internal policing of this
aspect of society was hardly required.

Thousands of EU-required abattoir veterinary inspectors sacked by the
simple expedient of leaning on DEFRA and getting abattoirs shut. Farmers
were upright citizens who were unlikely to take advantage of an
unpoliced system. Ho. Ho. That policy led to DEFRA being so short
staffed that they could no longer administer a foot and mouth crisis as
happened in 2000 and, as a result, a panicking government had to call in
the army to provide the management skills that DEFRA no longer had. That
particular F&M debacle cost around a staggering GBP89 billion.

About 5000 VAT inspectors and excise officers sacked -- a figure that
was further increased when Customs and Excise and Inland Revenue were
merged. After all, most registered VAT traders and travellers were
upright, honest citizens, therefore such a high level of internal
policing was hardly required. Likewise thousands of tax inspectors were
given the heave-ho. It's all self-assessment now, innit? Another name
for self-policing.

        NB: The consequences of this particular piece of vandalism
        rumble on: a recent issue of Private Eye (16th August 2006)
        points out the disastrous consequences of a further sacking of
        some 200 tax evasion investigators. Getting rid of these
        specialists saved about GBP20 million per annum. Lost revenue as
        a result was around GBP100 million.

Offices, shops, factory inspectors sacked. Very few shops had to be
closed down as a result of inspections therefore the owners of offices,
shops and railway premises were fine, upstanding, law-abiding citizens
who scrupulous observed the provisions of the OSRP Act therefore
policing them and their premises was not required.

Local authorities have been subjected to ludicrous pressures to carry
out massive cuts in their police forces. Police stations closed, cell
blocks closed. The cuts have now reached the point where many police
forces, such as Hull, have decided to virtually pull out of street
policing altogether. Treasury's plans to axe another 50,000 police
officers by merging police forces have been stalled. A temporary
set-back for them.

Hardly any police forces have been able to retain their fraud squads.
There's no need for them -- most people are honest, aren't they? And
those suspected of running major swindles can be dealt by Serious Fraud.

South West Trains and other franchise holders have had to give up
prosecuting many fare-dodgers because treasury pushed for a scale of
charges for calling in transport police -- 'incident attendance fees'.
It's cheaper for revenue protection employees to merely issue a warning
and to let the miscreants go. That crazy situation has gotten so bad
that when there's a major security alert at airports that results in
flight cancellations, BAA, BA, the transport police all end up suing
each other over increased costs or lost revenue.

Scales of charges for services have created a ludicrous system in which
one service, which is part of the infra-structure of the country, ends
up making another service pay for an essential service.

To quote one bizarrely example: the soon to be sold forensic service
were required to start operating at a profit. Treasury imposed a scale
of forensic charges on police forces: so much to examine and report on a
shoe; so much for a pair of knickers.

God knows how many immigration officers have been sacked. Home have been
so harried into getting rid of many prison admin staff that prison
calendars are no longer properly maintained and, as a result, prisons no
longer know exactly who to expect or when to release them! The system is
not merely on the brink of collapse, it has collapsed.

HM Customs and Excise Intelligence Unit BR17 (at Concorde 2000, South
Terminal Gatwick), a unit that played a vital role in stemming drugs
coming in the country, has virtually ceased to exist. There're two
blokes on duty now 9 to 5 Monday to Friday. Sadly this manning level is
fairly typical of all UK ports now.

Having shed many of its post offices which the cabinet was opposed to,
England can now expect to see the concept of local doctors' surgeries
axed.

When New Labour came to power in 1997 they immediately locked horns with
old guard treasury. Treasury simply tossed their head and sent the
grammar school oinks of New labour sprawling in the dust. One of New
Labour's early wheezes was 'Rip Off Britain' (anyone remember it?) -- a
plan to expose some of the commercial rackets. Labour planned to stamp
on the toes of many companies that were treasury's source of valuable
directorships and emoluments. The idea was sat on -- firmly.


SIR HUMPHREY:   Treasury will warmly welcome the idea, prime minister.

JIM HACKER:     (Worriedly) What does that mean?

SIR HUMPF:      They will say that it's a bold and courageous
                initiative. That it needs careful looking at from all
                angles--

JIM HACKER:     (resigned) Meaning they'll kill it.

SIR HUMPF:      And that a full and frank review report is
                needed to consider all the ramifications.

JIM HACKER:     How long will that take?

SIR HUMPF:      About two years.

JIM HACKER:     (despondently) Then they'll kill it.

SIR HUMPF:      Stone dead, prime minister.

Although written many years earlier, the above is exactly what happened
when Ken Livingston appointed a high-flying American, (Bob Kilney from
my dodgy memory) to become chairman of London Regional Transport.

Kilney(?) had transformed the New York subway from a creaky, rundown
service to a sleek, modern mass transport system that offered reasonably
cheap fares. He wanted to do the same for the London subway. His plan
was simple: to raise the necessary GBP10 billion needed by an undated
bond issue. Because the dosh would never be repaid, the percentage yield
for such an issue could be fixed at an attractive ten percent rather
like permanent interest bearing shares such as building societies issue
as PIBS. Pension funds, looking for such a yield in perpetuity, would be
certain to climb aboard as they had done in New York.

Never mind that it was a sound idea that had worked and would've kept
ownership of the subway in public hands -- a plan that No 10 favoured --
treasury saw a bond issue hoovering up GBP10 billion as a direct threat
to their gilt market. With the connivance of Stephen Byers, treasury put
in place a hideously complicated scheme for multiple PPP ownership of
the London subway with responsibilities divided between three separate
companies and saw to it that the legistlation was firmly in place before
the London mayoral election.

On a BBC FOUR TV programme Bob Kilney said that he couldn't understand
why his attempts to do something positive about the transport system of
one of the world's largest cities met with such implacable hostility
from treasury. Several times he had requested a meeting with Gordon
Brown and the requests had always been turned down. Bob Kilney never did
understand the fear that he had inspired in treasury. ('For God's sake,
my office is only two miles from Gordon Brown's office!'). He was tough
fighter. Thankfully for treasury, much of that fight was kicked out of
him by the death of his wife and two children in a car accident.

I rather like treasury running the country. When it comes to a choice
between a bunch of grammar school oinks and Balliol men with firsts, I'm
with the latter.

-- 
James Follett

Amethyst Deceiver wrote:
> In article <485ab85d$0$889$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>,
> j.murphy@libertysurf.fr says...
>> stonej wrote:
>>> Certain traits make exchange rate shoppers easy to spot, is it
>>> true?  :)
>>
>> Not sure about exchange rate shoppers, we don't get that sort of riff
>> raff here, but 'guess the tourist' has been a game I've always
>> indulged in. The British and Germans are dead easy, mainly because
>> of their clothes and, in the case of Britons, their propensity to
>> wander around with plastic bags and, less, silly hats. Italians are
>> easy too because their chatter lets you know they're there before
>> they are even in view. Others are more difficult unless they have a
>> marked phsyionomical type but visitors generally are very easy to
>> spot. For a start they tend to look upwards (at buildings, scenery
>> etc) far more than locals and, in this sunny place, shine in their
>> untanned whiteness.
>
> The Brits are the ones mottled white and sun-burn red.

The Germans aren't  bad on that score either but when it comes to 
arriving pure white on Saturday and being taken to hospital bright red 
on Sunday with second degree burns the Brits win hands down.

"John of Aix"  writes:

> The Germans aren't  bad on that score either but when it comes to 
> arriving pure white on Saturday and being taken to hospital bright red 
> on Sunday with second degree burns the Brits win hands down. 

Never seen the appeal of lying around semi-naked in the sun all day,
myself. So, it's off to the Tyrol this year, then. It was cheap.

-- 
In her eyes I saw the future

JF wrote:

> In a keynote speech in the late 1990s premier Blair set out a
> timetable for England to adopt the euro. Unfortunately he didn't
> square it with treasury and foreign. Foreign were particularly
> incensed because part of England's special relationship and part of
> their damage limitation deal with the Clinton administration after
> the CREP debacle was that England never adopt the euro so long as the
> USA was opposed to it. It was the only way for England to appease the
> United States and hang onto its prized permanent seat on the UN
> Security Council.

I've never heard of this James, any links, I'm interested?

JF  wrote:

> When it comes to a choice between a bunch of grammar school oinks and
> Balliol men with firsts, I'm with the latter.

God! How I love this place.

-- 
^Ï^                            Sn!pe  

     <:>----------[  Down with this sort of thing!  ]----------<:>

JF  writes:

> In message <lbP6k.12750$E41.12183@text.news.virginmedia.com>, Fevric J
> Glandules <fevric@invalid.invalid> writes
>
>>"England" isn't on the security council.
>
> technically but it's a Trinity trait

Oi! Feveric, didn't you go to Trinity, on a Tractor Scolarsip?
Why don't you exhibit the Trinity trait?

-- 
It's the same sky

Amethyst Deceiver wrote:

> You say this as though it's something new. If the slot accepts a £1
> coin, it'll accept a Euro coin.

<Scam idea>

So If If I turn up with a load of Euros (currently 78/79 pence) I can 
use them in machines that accept pound coins is that it?

</Scam idea>

I hope so, I haven't made a profit on currency replacement since they 
got rid of the halfpenny, which made a very good franc if the machine 
wasn't too particular.

JF wrote:
> In message , Amethyst
> Deceiver  writes
>> In article <3nbolbEHhrWIFw+z@marage.demon.co.uk>,
>> jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk says...
>>> In message , August West
>>>  writes
>>>> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) writes:
>>>>
>>>>> I notice most shops in Winchester seem to have caved in and they
>>>>> now accept dollars. I would guess that there are places in Embra
>>>>> that do the same.
>>>>
>>>> Only the tartan woollen whisky tourist traps.
>>>> Real shops don't, and the pubs certainly don't.
>>>
>>> Lidl shopping carts in English stores ("We don't do baskets! And
>>> please go around the store anti-clockwise!) accept 1EUR coins.
>>
>> You say this as though it's something new.
>
> The euro is new. Not even a decade old.

Physically no, next year is the tenth anniversary (with, I believe, 
special issue coins). The 'paper' Euro has been around for longer 
though.

As one who uses them daily I must say they are fun and quite often give 
rise to conversations in bars, shops etc. While one side is common to 
all, the other is national and though most are well known and obvious, 
countries sometimes issue a 'special edition' whose provenance is the 
cause of said discussions. Another interesting aspect is the people 
movements the coins show up. Here most coins are French, German and 
Dutch, our main tourists and in the case of the first two, big producers 
of coins. I see quite a few Irish too but few Spanish or Italian yet 
both Italy and Spain are only 3/400 km from here. A question of tourism 
again I expect, although the Italians are coming in increasing numbers, 
at Easter mainly, I don't think I've yet come across a Spanish tourist.

I love the Euro both for its symbolism and practicaty and while the man 
on the Paris omnibus might (quite rightly) complain about the inflation 
it has caused, generally people think it is a Good Thing. I really do 
wish the UK would join. The fact that it uses pounds is, I must say, one 
of the reasons why I don't have the slightest inclination to vist the UK 
now. I'd rather go to Ireland if I need to be in the Briitsh Isles where 
they not only have that but also use kilometres (plus, of course., the 
traditional, and infinitely  extensible, Irish Mile)

I wonder if there are other potential visitors like me who, in balance, 
would choose to avoid the UK (on a European trip for instance) because 
they would lose money by having to change theirs into the local currency 
with the picture of the old lady on it and then change it again for the 
rest of Europe.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:58:36 +0100, Sn!pe wrote:

> JF  wrote:
> 
>> When it comes to a choice between a bunch of grammar school oinks and
>> Balliol men with firsts, I'm with the latter.
> 
> God! How I love this place.

I prefer hake.


-- 
My God! It's full of ads.

"John of Aix"  writes:

> Amethyst Deceiver wrote:
>
>> You say this as though it's something new. If the slot accepts a £1
>> coin, it'll accept a Euro coin.
>
> <Scam idea>
> So If If I turn up with a load of Euros (currently 78/79 pence) I can 
> </Scam idea>

No; only dumb machines that use only rough size & thickness don't
differentiate; like supermaarket trolleys.

-- 
useful idiot?

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:45:07 +0100, JF wrote:

> Just as I never, ever use personal insults, 

Even if it were true, what's that got to do with it?

> I never, ever use the 'B'
> word. For me 'England' is writ through our affairs like the proud name
> of Bognor is written through a stick of rock. I know it's wrong
> technically 

Not just technically.  Scotland and Scottish people, in particular, 
have had an enormous effect on what the Union has done over the
last few hundred years.

> for the cabinet office is well-known. Treasury and their mates at
> foreign are Trinity House and Balliol first class honours men in

Trinity House?  They're ex-lighthouse keepers?  This *is* very confusing.

> foreign and treasury it was a trebles all round decision because it
> enabled England to remain in the nuclear club whilst clinging to its
> prized permanent seat on the UN Security Council without having to
> retain a costly R and D nuclear weapons programme.

Bzzzt.  They always had, and have, a weapons programme.  It was just 
the missiles which came from the US.  And in any case the V bombers
provided a home-grown delivery system so our ability to vapourise 
Moscow could not be written off as completely dependent on the Yanks.

> His immediate reaction was to get England
> tossed off its permanent seat on the UN security council along with
> France -- whom he never trusted anyway. 

How?  The UN charter simply doesn't allow for it.  (Unless said permanent
member agrees that it not longer deserves a permanent seat).

> I rather like treasury running the country. 

Could've fooled me.


-- 
One way ticket from Mornington Crescent to Tannhauser Gate please.